WEBVTT 00:00:14.649 --> 00:00:17.889 And welcome to The Edition podcast. I'm your host, Charlotte Henry, 00:00:18.489 --> 00:00:22.949 joining you after just another very quiet week in the media world. 00:00:23.109 --> 00:00:27.129 Nothing much really going on either side of the Atlantic Ocean. 00:00:27.869 --> 00:00:30.249 So we're going to have a chilled one today. It's going to be really nice. 00:00:30.449 --> 00:00:35.709 I'm joined by Adam Keller, who is a reporter, a senior reporter at the Daily Star. 00:00:36.029 --> 00:00:39.489 But today he's here as a fan of the WWE. 00:00:40.289 --> 00:00:43.669 Because I want it's been on Netflix a while now and 00:00:43.669 --> 00:00:46.469 I don't really understand WWE and I want 00:00:46.469 --> 00:00:49.669 someone who does understand it to tell me what's going 00:00:49.669 --> 00:00:52.589 on on WWE oh well on Netflix with the 00:00:52.589 --> 00:00:55.569 now that it's bought this this property so hello 00:00:55.569 --> 00:00:58.309 Adam how are you hello I'm good 00:00:58.309 --> 00:01:01.229 how are you I'm absolutely fine thank you 00:01:01.229 --> 00:01:04.849 mate so let's start at the beginning you know 00:01:04.849 --> 00:01:10.969 this is the first kind of year season how do we describe it that um this been 00:01:10.969 --> 00:01:17.189 on wwe's been on right yeah so it kind of wwe doesn't really have an off season 00:01:17.189 --> 00:01:22.749 so it's just a constant yeah very constant yes it is just over a year now a year and a month. 00:01:24.579 --> 00:01:29.299 It's almost like I planned it for the anniversary. Yeah, well done. Proud of you. 00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:37.059 Yeah, it's part of a 10-year deal, which cost $5 billion. It cost all the money. 00:01:37.859 --> 00:01:41.939 It cost a lot of money, and which also came with all the back catalogue of everything 00:01:41.939 --> 00:01:45.679 that was on their own network that they shut down to show Netflix. 00:01:46.899 --> 00:01:51.419 Netflix. It's funny, right. So when I was a kid many, 00:01:51.579 --> 00:01:54.519 many, many years ago, for me sky sports 00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:57.439 was we right for years and years and years 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:00.739 sky sports was the home was then bwf 00:02:00.739 --> 00:02:03.479 wasn't it that's how far back we're going it was 00:02:03.479 --> 00:02:07.199 and then some people trying to protect pandas got upset and 00:02:07.199 --> 00:02:10.179 then it became we and now then it 00:02:10.179 --> 00:02:14.099 went to tnt sports for a bit didn't it yeah so yeah 00:02:14.099 --> 00:02:17.119 i mean everyone used to have sky sports for either football or 00:02:17.119 --> 00:02:19.859 wrestling you'd never really watch sky sports for anything else in those days 00:02:19.859 --> 00:02:22.919 and they were together they were apart maybe a little bit but they 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:26.099 were a partnership for the best part of 20 years probably longer 00:02:26.099 --> 00:02:29.419 and then all of a sudden they jumped to tnt but tnt 00:02:29.419 --> 00:02:32.539 shot themselves in the foot by doing nothing literally nothing 00:02:32.539 --> 00:02:35.779 with wwe it was kind of known behind the 00:02:35.779 --> 00:02:38.579 scenes that the deal wasn't really working from 00:02:38.579 --> 00:02:42.019 day one the only thing that tnt offered wwe 00:02:42.019 --> 00:02:47.599 was during the pandemic um well just before the pandemic wwe launched its own 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:52.839 uk brand and it's called mxt uk which was doing okay but when the pandemic and 00:02:52.839 --> 00:02:57.759 everything shut down they needed a place to film it so TNT which then became 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.079 BT offered its studios to film a show no BT became TNT no. 00:03:02.298 --> 00:03:05.118 Sorry, other way around. Is that where I left? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:03:05.778 --> 00:03:10.518 So they offered the studios to WWE, and that was such a mistake because the 00:03:10.518 --> 00:03:16.498 product was virtually unwatchable because the studio was not made for that kind of thing. 00:03:16.598 --> 00:03:20.998 So then that brand got cancelled, and then very quickly the deal ended, 00:03:21.538 --> 00:03:23.158 and then the Netflix deal was announced. 00:03:23.358 --> 00:03:27.718 But there was a weird period where TNT could have said, 00:03:27.818 --> 00:03:30.738 oh, we'll keep you on for a bit longer because the deal ended 00:03:30.738 --> 00:03:34.038 two weeks before they joined netflix and there was 00:03:34.038 --> 00:03:37.138 nowhere to show the show so rather than being nice about it 00:03:37.138 --> 00:03:40.058 tnt went no we're not interested so we went to 00:03:40.058 --> 00:03:43.038 youtube for two weeks and showed everything on there for free 00:03:43.038 --> 00:03:47.038 which was just great um yeah 00:03:47.038 --> 00:03:50.458 so yeah it's been a rocky few years for wwe 00:03:50.458 --> 00:03:53.898 on uk it's really interesting because i'm not a wwe 00:03:53.898 --> 00:03:56.518 fan i don't quite get it you can explain to me why in a 00:03:56.518 --> 00:03:59.398 bit but as I say I completely have in 00:03:59.398 --> 00:04:04.758 my mind this image of it being associated in the UK with Sky Sports and then 00:04:04.758 --> 00:04:08.798 there was this quite a shock in sort of sports media and the fandom as I understand 00:04:08.798 --> 00:04:16.238 it when they made this jump to TNT then there was this greater shock and it 00:04:16.238 --> 00:04:18.818 was a huge story in sort of the world that I cover. 00:04:19.943 --> 00:04:24.663 When Netflix picked it up, and it was the first sort of properly live, 00:04:24.663 --> 00:04:29.003 I'm not going to say sports, don't kill me. What do we have to call it? Sports entertainment. 00:04:29.543 --> 00:04:32.383 Sports, I mean, yeah, just call it sports entertainment. 00:04:33.163 --> 00:04:36.583 That went consistently to Netflix. 00:04:36.723 --> 00:04:39.903 And that was the significance of that deal, right? Because previously Netflix 00:04:39.903 --> 00:04:45.223 had had a couple of one-off bits of like events, right? They did the one-off events. 00:04:45.763 --> 00:04:48.983 But now this was a thing that was going out week after week after week, 00:04:48.983 --> 00:04:51.843 multiple times a week yeah they 00:04:51.843 --> 00:04:54.683 have two live shows a week and then 00:04:54.683 --> 00:04:57.763 once every two or three weeks is the bigger events that 00:04:57.763 --> 00:05:00.523 they do like this so this was like a very big 00:05:00.523 --> 00:05:03.503 deal for netflix to take this on yeah i mean yeah 00:05:03.503 --> 00:05:07.683 and it to be honest it was great for fans when it went to netflix because a 00:05:07.683 --> 00:05:14.203 lot of us were annoyed when it went to bt slash gnt because we didn't want to 00:05:14.203 --> 00:05:21.483 be spending an extra 30 quid a month it was a new thing yeah the football offering was never that great. 00:05:22.983 --> 00:05:26.443 Like most fans were okay i can miss out on a couple of champions league games 00:05:26.443 --> 00:05:30.403 because amazon prime had the free ones and they didn't have enough well you 00:05:30.403 --> 00:05:34.343 have to pay for amazon prime so what we've got just for americans listening 00:05:34.343 --> 00:05:39.543 so sky sports has most of the premier league football TNT has one game a week, 00:05:39.703 --> 00:05:42.943 normally at 12.30pm on a Saturday lunchtime. 00:05:43.183 --> 00:05:47.723 It currently has all the European competition Football Champions League, 00:05:48.123 --> 00:05:52.383 Europa League, which as we know is the most important one, and the Europa Conference League. 00:05:53.223 --> 00:05:54.783 It has those three competitions. 00:05:55.643 --> 00:05:58.823 That's changing, as I've written about on the edition, but that's what it had 00:05:58.823 --> 00:06:02.003 for now. So you've got a fairly decent chunk of football. 00:06:02.623 --> 00:06:06.583 But if your team's not in a European competition, you can probably sacrifice 00:06:06.583 --> 00:06:08.023 one Premier League game a week. 00:06:09.807 --> 00:06:12.587 So I can understand if you're a wrestling person, you're like, 00:06:12.767 --> 00:06:15.147 this is just another subscription and it's quite annoying. 00:06:15.807 --> 00:06:20.467 Plus, one thing Debeer has always been good at is they put a lot of highlights on YouTube. 00:06:21.267 --> 00:06:24.507 So they'll put the key bits of every show on YouTube anyway. 00:06:24.507 --> 00:06:28.827 So it really wasn't justifying spending another 30-odd quid a month. 00:06:28.887 --> 00:06:31.287 So for someone that likes wrestling and football, you're like, 00:06:31.367 --> 00:06:33.107 I can justify having Sky Sports. 00:06:33.207 --> 00:06:36.307 There are multiple things I watch. Most nights, you're watching Sky Sports. 00:06:36.867 --> 00:06:39.907 Yeah. it whereas once it went to tnt you're 00:06:39.907 --> 00:06:43.007 like is there enough okay i understand that so the 00:06:43.007 --> 00:06:47.447 netflix deal was great because a most people already have netflix and b if you 00:06:47.447 --> 00:06:49.967 get that if you don't and you have it in the cheapest package you're looking 00:06:49.967 --> 00:06:57.007 at 4.99 so that's a hell of a lot cheaper than 30 quid sure yes you get you 00:06:57.007 --> 00:07:01.147 can get the ad the one with advertising for whatever it was then 4.99. 00:07:02.827 --> 00:07:05.187 And you get all the content anyway. 00:07:05.747 --> 00:07:10.027 If you're watching WWE Live, you're getting adverts anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Yeah. 00:07:11.508 --> 00:07:15.128 Yeah i totally you get you get they have this weird thing now where they do 00:07:15.128 --> 00:07:21.788 the ads but we don't get ads in the uk on it you just get this three minute weird music filler. 00:07:22.548 --> 00:07:25.628 Don't know why so yeah it's a bit awkward but yeah as i 00:07:25.628 --> 00:07:29.988 say like regardless of what price you pay it's still worth it yeah yeah 00:07:29.988 --> 00:07:33.388 because as you said and i think i read this at the time like people already 00:07:33.388 --> 00:07:36.768 will have a lot of people will already have netflix 00:07:36.768 --> 00:07:40.308 so it's coming into a package you probably already 00:07:40.308 --> 00:07:43.228 have and as a fan what about the 00:07:43.228 --> 00:07:47.028 presentation side of it it's kind 00:07:47.028 --> 00:07:49.848 of the same as it always has been they had 00:07:49.848 --> 00:07:52.508 every four or five years they changed the look 00:07:52.508 --> 00:07:55.148 of the shows anyway so they did it 00:07:55.148 --> 00:07:58.048 about two years before they joined netflix and then because they joined netflix they changed 00:07:58.048 --> 00:08:00.768 it again so in terms of the actual presentation it's 00:08:00.768 --> 00:08:03.688 not really changed to be fair um which is 00:08:03.688 --> 00:08:06.688 not a good or bad thing it's just something we're used to with 00:08:06.688 --> 00:08:10.448 wwe as i say they change it all the time anyway um the 00:08:10.448 --> 00:08:13.588 product itself not necessarily the production 00:08:13.588 --> 00:08:16.728 qualities has improved greatly like the 00:08:16.728 --> 00:08:19.768 actual in-ring the in-ring of the the drama side 00:08:19.768 --> 00:08:23.068 to it has improved because they can get away with 00:08:23.068 --> 00:08:26.368 doing more adult stuff 00:08:26.368 --> 00:08:30.228 explain that okay so 00:08:30.228 --> 00:08:36.268 for years they went pg okay when when wrestling was big in the uk remember i'm 00:08:36.268 --> 00:08:40.248 an idiot who doesn't understand this world at all yeah so when it was big in 00:08:40.248 --> 00:08:43.988 the uk and you had like big names like the rocks don't call Steve Austin or 00:08:43.988 --> 00:08:47.948 that lot it was very much pg-13 and above. 00:08:48.648 --> 00:08:53.828 So you had blood you had real violence you had swearing and all that kind of 00:08:53.828 --> 00:09:00.908 stuff then the panda the panda thing happened and it became the panda thing when they became wwe. 00:09:02.272 --> 00:09:04.612 We're calling that the panda thing now. Oh, I'm crazy. We're calling it the 00:09:04.612 --> 00:09:06.052 panda thing. Cool, great. 00:09:06.912 --> 00:09:11.792 So when that happened and it became WWE, they pivoted to completely PG, 00:09:12.072 --> 00:09:17.532 child-friendly content, which is quite possibly one of the most boring periods 00:09:17.532 --> 00:09:18.552 of being a wrestling fan. 00:09:19.912 --> 00:09:25.912 So then the move to Netflix, they've had that freedom to go back to the slightly more edgier content, 00:09:25.952 --> 00:09:28.692 which has made it more watchable because they can do a lot 00:09:28.692 --> 00:09:31.372 more realistic stuff and you don't have to have 00:09:31.372 --> 00:09:34.872 these characters that are aimed at kids anymore and it's 00:09:34.872 --> 00:09:37.592 worked in their favor because i think they've realized that actually the kids want 00:09:37.592 --> 00:09:42.292 to see the more adult characters so again remember 00:09:42.292 --> 00:09:47.152 i'm an idiot explain that a little bit more so you 00:09:47.152 --> 00:09:50.272 had two kinds of characters during the pg era 00:09:50.272 --> 00:09:53.172 which was basically big meaty men 00:09:53.172 --> 00:09:55.932 and small guys who would get 00:09:55.932 --> 00:09:59.232 beaten up by the big meaty men it was literally watered 00:09:59.232 --> 00:10:02.372 down to something that simple very often thing there 00:10:02.372 --> 00:10:05.372 was nothing kind of in like detailed about any 00:10:05.372 --> 00:10:08.292 of it it was just very simple and it was a bit boring 00:10:08.292 --> 00:10:11.052 and oh here's a championship belt and let's fight over it 00:10:11.052 --> 00:10:17.552 and that's it now you've got storylines that are you can invest in because they're 00:10:17.552 --> 00:10:21.432 actually about the human side of these characters and if that means you've got 00:10:21.432 --> 00:10:26.872 Dwayne the Rock Johnson smacking someone's head against a boss and making him 00:10:26.872 --> 00:10:29.672 bleed and talking about how who's going to beat up his family kind of thing, 00:10:30.372 --> 00:10:32.932 that's more watchable than the stuff we've had to put up with for years. 00:10:32.932 --> 00:10:36.592 I mean, it sounds just what I want to settle down to after a day's work. 00:10:37.432 --> 00:10:38.492 Calming family television. 00:10:39.749 --> 00:10:43.809 I mean, it sounds it. I have picked up that The Rock keeps coming back. 00:10:44.629 --> 00:10:48.609 Yeah. The last time he came back was terrible because he brought Travis Scott 00:10:48.609 --> 00:10:50.569 with him and it was just really awkward television. 00:10:50.809 --> 00:10:54.549 So he hasn't been around for about 18 months because I think he's still trying 00:10:54.549 --> 00:10:56.889 to recover from that mess of an appearance. 00:10:57.789 --> 00:11:00.969 Right. Yes, I can see how that maybe didn't work. 00:11:01.649 --> 00:11:05.229 Yeah, you had Travis Scott lighting Sage in the corner of the ring. 00:11:05.369 --> 00:11:08.189 It was like weird. Yeah. Come watch it on YouTube. 00:11:08.649 --> 00:11:11.849 Sure. I'll be doing that just after we've recorded this. Okay, 00:11:12.189 --> 00:11:14.829 so you as a... How can I put this candidly? 00:11:14.929 --> 00:11:20.449 You as an older fan, you're not a kid, Adam, let's put it that way. 00:11:20.609 --> 00:11:27.329 You think Netflix have produced a better product and have had the freedom because 00:11:27.329 --> 00:11:29.849 it's been on a streaming service, not a mainstream TV channel. 00:11:30.329 --> 00:11:36.349 Yeah, and also they've pushed it worldwide. One of the really good things they've done 00:11:36.789 --> 00:11:42.989 is for years if we wanted to watch a live show you'd have to stay up till one 00:11:42.989 --> 00:11:45.529 two in the morning and watch it because that's when it's on in the US. 00:11:45.709 --> 00:11:48.689 So you're talking about the big events the sort of Royal Rumble? 00:11:49.329 --> 00:11:53.709 No just even the weekly shows. Okay. Like anything you wanted to watch you would 00:11:53.709 --> 00:11:56.949 have to if you wanted to watch it live and not have to wake up to someone spoiling 00:11:56.949 --> 00:11:59.449 it for you you would have to watch it at one in the morning. 00:11:59.869 --> 00:12:02.989 Okay. As part as part of the Netflix deal well, Netflix turned around and said, 00:12:03.109 --> 00:12:06.129 you're not doing that anymore. You're not pre-recording shows. 00:12:06.889 --> 00:12:11.629 If you're doing a UK tour and you're doing a Monday Night Raw show in London. 00:12:12.669 --> 00:12:17.549 Then you will have to show it live. We don't care about the US audience and time differences. 00:12:19.549 --> 00:12:25.209 I'm kind of fascinated by that. Because there's more people outside of America. 00:12:25.989 --> 00:12:31.089 For years, it's just been such a US-based mindset of, this is when we're going to show our stuff. 00:12:31.089 --> 00:12:35.949 We don't care about anyone else so they were in Saudi last weekend for the Royal 00:12:35.949 --> 00:12:42.169 Rumble that was on here at 7 o'clock the US had it at like midday we had it 00:12:42.169 --> 00:12:43.849 at 7 o'clock it was great for us. 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:51.259 Was that 7pm on a Saturday night? Yeah, it was perfect. Quite civilised. 00:12:51.799 --> 00:12:56.719 Yeah, and then they have the Monday Night Raw was taped a couple of weeks ago, 00:12:56.819 --> 00:12:58.419 well, shown live in London, 00:12:59.419 --> 00:13:04.939 again, 7 o'clock here, but in the US, because of their deal with the USA network, 00:13:05.479 --> 00:13:09.499 that was still shown at what would be 1 o'clock in the morning here. 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:12.539 So some shows we actually see before they see it in the US now, 00:13:12.859 --> 00:13:14.939 which is a mad change from what it used to be. 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:18.099 Yeah that's really so as a fan you actually think you're getting a better 00:13:18.099 --> 00:13:21.439 experience now that's on netflix yeah definitely i 00:13:21.439 --> 00:13:24.439 mean fans outside of the u.s definitely in the u.s it's 00:13:24.439 --> 00:13:27.299 a totally different picture are they across the 00:13:27.299 --> 00:13:30.259 u.s fans yeah because it's not all 00:13:30.259 --> 00:13:33.039 on netflix there now they signed the netflix deal and 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:36.719 then went i think it's the espn app 00:13:36.719 --> 00:13:39.639 for a lot of stuff so they've got a netflix subscription the 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:43.699 espn subscription but she's still got stuff on the usa network there so it's 00:13:43.699 --> 00:13:47.179 a lot more fragmented over there and they're paying a lot more than we ever 00:13:47.179 --> 00:13:51.999 were so they're not too happy about it though that's really interesting so yeah 00:13:51.999 --> 00:13:55.559 because usa network has like bits of premier league football it's interesting 00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:59.239 that netflix hasn't decided to hold on to it exclusively in the u.s. 00:14:00.337 --> 00:14:05.937 Yeah, not totally sure how or why that came about, but it was within about six 00:14:05.937 --> 00:14:07.757 months of the Netflix deal being announced. 00:14:07.917 --> 00:14:12.357 They suddenly went, well, we're having a deal with ESPN as well. So it's a bit odd. 00:14:13.377 --> 00:14:16.917 I wonder actually if they just, well, one is a bit of cash, I guess. 00:14:17.097 --> 00:14:20.877 It's where the cash went someone's way. And also maybe they were a bit worried 00:14:20.877 --> 00:14:21.897 about the viewing figures. 00:14:22.117 --> 00:14:26.637 Possibly. I mean, we can't really find out the exact viewing figures for WWE. 00:14:26.817 --> 00:14:29.737 No one seems to be able to get a hold of him. but it is always in 00:14:29.737 --> 00:14:33.217 the top five on netflix every week so you 00:14:33.217 --> 00:14:36.077 can assume they're doing well yeah and also i guess 00:14:36.077 --> 00:14:39.237 this is the thing as well isn't it that a live 00:14:39.237 --> 00:14:41.957 event a single event is always going to 00:14:41.957 --> 00:14:44.977 drive you know a significant amount of viewership whatever that 00:14:44.977 --> 00:14:47.817 number is right because yes maybe everyone wants 00:14:47.817 --> 00:14:50.997 there's like the new season of wednesday or something is popular 00:14:50.997 --> 00:14:55.697 but the viewership for that is going to be a lot more fragmented and still you 00:14:55.697 --> 00:14:58.797 know the odd there's the odd thing the stranger things whatever that sort of 00:14:58.797 --> 00:15:04.017 drives everyone but like most other series are gonna have people pick it up 00:15:04.017 --> 00:15:08.077 over a slower period of time whereas if this is a thing that is live on a monday night. 00:15:09.763 --> 00:15:15.083 I mean it would be yeah they've got they're also finding the back catalogs working quite well, 00:15:15.903 --> 00:15:18.983 okay they used they used they used to have their own 00:15:18.983 --> 00:15:22.083 network before netflix so there was a wwe 00:15:22.083 --> 00:15:24.743 network which is only about 10 quid which was 10 quid a 00:15:24.743 --> 00:15:27.723 month but for wrestling fun it was worth it because you had every 00:15:27.723 --> 00:15:31.183 show in the history of the company going back 70 80 00:15:31.183 --> 00:15:34.223 years you had from rival companies that 00:15:34.223 --> 00:15:37.783 no longer exist you had everything on that netflix doesn't 00:15:37.783 --> 00:15:40.503 have the full load of it yet i don't know if it ever 00:15:40.503 --> 00:15:43.603 will because the content library is so big but 00:15:43.603 --> 00:15:46.743 the amount that they have is still very 00:15:46.743 --> 00:15:49.623 watchable for a lot of fans um and there's enough there 00:15:49.623 --> 00:15:52.723 for like a lapsed fan to go and catch up and from 00:15:52.723 --> 00:15:55.903 what i've heard it seems that the back catalog is also doing 00:15:55.903 --> 00:15:58.543 better than they thought it would do so do you 00:15:58.543 --> 00:16:01.583 think that's either from hardcore fans who hadn't paid 00:16:01.583 --> 00:16:07.203 the 10 pounds or people who noticed it on their netflix and were like oh i want 00:16:07.203 --> 00:16:12.023 to watch a bit more he's a older show yeah i think i think it's a bit of both 00:16:12.023 --> 00:16:16.263 but i also think the lapsed fun has kind of gone well i used to watch this 15 00:16:16.263 --> 00:16:19.143 20 years ago when i was a kid let's see what it's like now which i think has 00:16:19.143 --> 00:16:21.143 really worked in their favor to do with this deal, 00:16:22.003 --> 00:16:25.603 because the the lapsed fan already had netflix it's come up on their netflix 00:16:25.603 --> 00:16:32.243 home page yeah i can see that and i can see suddenly why this deal is working for both parties. 00:16:33.143 --> 00:16:38.623 Because, you know, if it's, let's take, we're working on the assumption that 00:16:38.623 --> 00:16:42.103 most people that watch TV probably have a Netflix subscription. 00:16:42.403 --> 00:16:45.283 As I put in my book, Streaming Wars, buy it now, thank you. 00:16:45.483 --> 00:16:50.023 The data show that people have two and a bit, you know, I don't know if it's 00:16:50.023 --> 00:16:53.423 changed more recently as we've got more streaming services, but you can kind 00:16:53.423 --> 00:16:56.663 of assume people have a couple, maybe two or three streaming services. 00:16:57.203 --> 00:17:01.623 Maybe they have a music one. Normally the tv one they probably have is netflix 00:17:01.623 --> 00:17:06.443 so you maybe have spotterfly netflix and there may be something else. 00:17:07.593 --> 00:17:12.733 So, I guess a lot of people who want to watch a lot of TV will have a Netflix subscription already. 00:17:12.993 --> 00:17:16.713 And back to what you said at the top of the show, you were quite pleased that 00:17:16.713 --> 00:17:20.933 it turned up on a thing that you already had and you weren't paying additional money. 00:17:21.353 --> 00:17:25.033 So, I can see that then if you chuck in a back catalogue as well, 00:17:25.253 --> 00:17:28.793 someone who, as you say, maybe watched it 15 years ago, 00:17:29.213 --> 00:17:32.193 didn't want to pay for Sky Sports or TNT, whichever one it was, 00:17:32.313 --> 00:17:36.353 suddenly found that a thing they kind of liked and kind of remembered was there. 00:17:36.973 --> 00:17:42.233 And therefore and watchable quite easily and you could catch up a bit and whatever 00:17:42.233 --> 00:17:47.693 yeah and i also think they've taken advantage in the european market of the 00:17:47.693 --> 00:17:49.053 fact that they can show it live, 00:17:49.713 --> 00:17:52.553 whenever they want because they're now 00:17:52.553 --> 00:17:55.773 selling out arenas across europe with the 00:17:55.773 --> 00:17:58.593 tours they're doing because people know that they're actually there used 00:17:58.593 --> 00:18:02.973 to be a history of tours in europe being a bit rubbish where 00:18:02.973 --> 00:18:05.693 you would get people they would just wheel out people who were not 00:18:05.693 --> 00:18:08.733 really on tv every week plus maybe one 00:18:08.733 --> 00:18:11.633 or two top stars if that but now you know if 00:18:11.633 --> 00:18:14.673 you go to a show because it's always on netflix they have to 00:18:14.673 --> 00:18:18.453 put on a good show otherwise they ain't going to get the viewing figures so 00:18:18.453 --> 00:18:22.553 this the ticket sales in arenas is pretty much selling out now across europe 00:18:22.553 --> 00:18:26.453 every single time they come here so it's another advantage for those who actually 00:18:26.453 --> 00:18:29.533 go pay to see it live one of the things i really wanted to talk to you about 00:18:29.533 --> 00:18:31.753 when we plan this discussion is. 00:18:32.710 --> 00:18:37.510 The additional content, I'm talking the sort of Mr. McMahon docu-series type things. 00:18:37.970 --> 00:18:44.730 So me, not as a wrestling fan, was interested in that documentary series just 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:46.710 because it was an interesting doc, right? 00:18:47.030 --> 00:18:51.670 How does that also work as someone who is a wrestling fan and it kind of becomes 00:18:51.670 --> 00:18:55.930 your hub for everything around this thing that you like? 00:18:57.010 --> 00:19:00.850 So far, with the extra content they've done, I think a lot of wrestling fans 00:19:00.850 --> 00:19:02.090 hate watching the stuff. 00:19:03.690 --> 00:19:06.590 Um they've done a series so they've done a series 00:19:06.590 --> 00:19:09.530 called unreal and which is now in its just launched its 00:19:09.530 --> 00:19:13.970 second series which is very much a behind the scenes look every 00:19:13.970 --> 00:19:17.090 wrestling fan hates it with a passion because it takes 00:19:17.090 --> 00:19:20.090 away every single bit of mystique and 00:19:20.090 --> 00:19:23.690 intrigue behind what you're watching every week there's 00:19:23.690 --> 00:19:26.830 a there's a clip in it of one guy called paul hayman who 00:19:26.830 --> 00:19:29.750 is an absolute legend like he used to own a wrestling company 00:19:29.750 --> 00:19:32.390 he's one of the best on the microphone all that kind of 00:19:32.390 --> 00:19:35.210 thing and he actually says in the show i hate this 00:19:35.210 --> 00:19:39.350 show this show shouldn't exist and you just find a lot of people are what yeah 00:19:39.350 --> 00:19:43.510 a lot of people are watching that show to see just how bad it is and it's the 00:19:43.510 --> 00:19:48.130 same with the vince mcmahon documentary that was terrible it was just vince 00:19:48.130 --> 00:19:51.550 mcmahon scoring an own goal the whole time and it was really awkward to watch 00:19:51.550 --> 00:19:54.590 and it put wrestling in a bad light for a lot of people make it terrible. 00:19:55.945 --> 00:19:59.665 I say terrible because it put wrestling in a bad light for a lot of, for a lot. 00:19:59.905 --> 00:20:04.725 Well, yeah, which, yeah. So a lot of it was down to just one person, 00:20:04.725 --> 00:20:08.285 but the whole industry itself got tarnished with that brush. 00:20:08.485 --> 00:20:10.605 Yeah. Cause he's seen as the face of the industry. 00:20:11.205 --> 00:20:17.705 Yeah. And there's a lot of wrestling outside of WWE that is completely separate 00:20:17.705 --> 00:20:19.345 to WWE. There's rival companies. 00:20:19.625 --> 00:20:22.425 There's hundreds of companies in the UK, for instance. 00:20:22.765 --> 00:20:25.485 So a lot of people just saw it as all wrestling is bad. And, 00:20:26.025 --> 00:20:29.785 every single part of it is bad when it really wasn't okay 00:20:29.785 --> 00:20:32.485 but do 00:20:32.485 --> 00:20:35.685 you think okay so you've got the hate watching i'm just thinking as a 00:20:35.685 --> 00:20:38.345 package though yeah does that as a 00:20:38.345 --> 00:20:41.425 package it's great it is great that there's more of it to watch because it's 00:20:41.425 --> 00:20:44.865 not like i'm going to sit at home going oh that's not you know the monday and 00:20:44.865 --> 00:20:48.325 the friday night live shows i'm not going to watch it of course i'm going to 00:20:48.325 --> 00:20:52.125 watch it like it's just more wrestling content to watch isn't it like you watch 00:20:52.125 --> 00:20:56.205 I saw the football documentaries on Amazon Prime and the Welcome to Wrexham stuff. 00:20:56.385 --> 00:20:59.385 Like, if you're into it, you're going to watch it. I've never finished the Tottenham 00:20:59.385 --> 00:21:01.185 Hotspur Amazon Prime series. 00:21:01.945 --> 00:21:05.385 No, I think I watched about two episodes. That was not the best one, to be fair. 00:21:05.625 --> 00:21:10.685 I got through a lot of it. I think I stopped as the pandemic started. 00:21:11.745 --> 00:21:14.405 Yeah, probably about the same. Watch Welcome to Wrexham, though. 00:21:14.445 --> 00:21:17.605 That was good. I could do Welcome to Wrexham, yeah. Look, we're joking because 00:21:17.605 --> 00:21:18.965 we're both football fans, but... 00:21:20.017 --> 00:21:23.037 It does say something that these streaming companies, if they're taking the 00:21:23.037 --> 00:21:28.077 live thing, Disney's got a bit of live football now. It's got the Women's Champions League. 00:21:28.317 --> 00:21:32.757 It shows one game of Spanish football every Saturday night here in the UK. 00:21:33.117 --> 00:21:38.057 As that stuff's happening, they're having to have this additional catalogue. 00:21:38.277 --> 00:21:43.197 And despite my cynicism of wrestling being actual sport, you can shout at me 00:21:43.197 --> 00:21:47.777 in person another time, but it does seem to be the same vibe that Netflix are going for. 00:21:48.617 --> 00:21:52.557 Yeah, 100%. and there are people that actually just watch it for the drama like 00:21:52.557 --> 00:21:55.797 they watch EastEnders kind of thing they just want to tune into a weekly drama 00:21:55.797 --> 00:21:57.297 every week so for them it's different, 00:21:58.017 --> 00:22:01.537 okay I mean there is a newer younger group 00:22:01.537 --> 00:22:05.097 of wrestling fans who watch it for the sports side 00:22:05.097 --> 00:22:08.197 of it but they tend not to watch WWE for 00:22:08.197 --> 00:22:11.937 that they'll go to a rival company called AEW which 00:22:11.937 --> 00:22:14.817 is weirdly shoved away on ITV I don't 00:22:14.817 --> 00:22:17.697 know why it's still on ITV4 and five days after they 00:22:17.697 --> 00:22:21.657 show it in the us so it's a bit weird um so yes 00:22:21.657 --> 00:22:24.397 i see the kind of connection between that and 00:22:24.397 --> 00:22:29.237 all the other stuff but yeah it's been an interesting few years shall we say 00:22:29.237 --> 00:22:33.397 for wrestling fans i'm being a bit sarky break down the kind of sport versus 00:22:33.397 --> 00:22:39.057 drama real not real like even the show you've just mentioned was called unreal 00:22:39.057 --> 00:22:42.557 just 30 seconds break all that down for us. 00:22:43.747 --> 00:22:47.307 It's real in terms of if you get in a ring, it is going to hurt. 00:22:48.007 --> 00:22:51.567 It is not without its dangers. And there's a lot of athleticism. 00:22:51.807 --> 00:22:54.987 The drama stuff is scripted, but so is literally everything else you watch, 00:22:55.067 --> 00:22:57.807 unless you're watching an actual live football or cricket game. 00:22:58.907 --> 00:23:03.067 So having been in a ring myself once, it hurts. Screw what? 00:23:03.887 --> 00:23:08.247 I was not as in a match. I was like in a ring, building a ring, 00:23:08.447 --> 00:23:09.747 running the ropes kind of thing. 00:23:10.267 --> 00:23:13.467 It hurts. and I wouldn't advise anyone do it unless you are trained because 00:23:13.467 --> 00:23:17.987 you will hurt yourself but in terms of it being a sport and entertainment, 00:23:18.667 --> 00:23:20.707 it's no more entertainment than 00:23:20.707 --> 00:23:28.107 watching EastEnders so the outcome of the matches is pre-ordained yeah, 00:23:29.007 --> 00:23:33.007 100% but then sometimes things go wrong and things 00:23:33.007 --> 00:23:35.767 go off script like there was a couple of weeks ago 00:23:35.767 --> 00:23:38.927 a championship change hand completely out of 00:23:38.927 --> 00:23:41.927 the blue that wasn't meant to happen because of a wrestler 00:23:41.927 --> 00:23:44.627 got knocked out was meant to kick out of 00:23:44.627 --> 00:23:47.547 a pinfall and the referee wasn't aware of that 00:23:47.547 --> 00:23:50.407 and counted to three so a championship changed hands on live 00:23:50.407 --> 00:23:53.347 tv which wasn't meant to happen so it does sometimes happen that 00:23:53.347 --> 00:23:56.167 it's not all goes to plan i've really enjoyed 00:23:56.167 --> 00:23:59.787 chatting about this not because i'll probably be turning into monday night raw 00:23:59.787 --> 00:24:04.407 though maybe i will now maybe you've converted me maybe i'll have to i'll have 00:24:04.407 --> 00:24:11.167 to just get into it now i watch too many i can't do add another live weekly 00:24:11.167 --> 00:24:13.707 thing to my sporting roster, but... 00:24:14.913 --> 00:24:18.253 What I wondered if you were going to come on the show, because I deliberately 00:24:18.253 --> 00:24:19.993 didn't ask you what your view was. 00:24:20.253 --> 00:24:24.533 I just booked you because I wanted to hear it sort of, forgive the pun, raw. 00:24:26.073 --> 00:24:32.693 Because I was wondering if you were going to be frustrated in some way about 00:24:32.693 --> 00:24:38.013 Netflix or, you know, even if it's OK, some people have that not as good as in my day kind of vibe. 00:24:38.293 --> 00:24:40.693 But that's not the impression I've picked up from this. 00:24:41.653 --> 00:24:46.413 So to sort of round off our conversation do you think this relationship between 00:24:46.413 --> 00:24:52.013 wwe and netflix is going to continue it's a very it's like a decade-long deal 00:24:52.013 --> 00:24:58.913 already isn't it yeah it's a 10-year deal and so i i wonder how i mean it seems 00:24:58.913 --> 00:25:01.353 to be working for people now after this first year, 00:25:02.253 --> 00:25:05.433 it doesn't seem like it's going to be how apple tv 00:25:05.433 --> 00:25:09.093 has got itself in a bit of a mess with the MLS and 00:25:09.093 --> 00:25:11.953 is sort of they're both moving out this deal and changing it 00:25:11.953 --> 00:25:15.153 so far it seems to be working I mean 00:25:15.153 --> 00:25:18.173 is this going to be like the next Sky Sports and in another you know 00:25:18.173 --> 00:25:21.513 it's going to last 20 years on Netflix well I mean what's 00:25:21.513 --> 00:25:24.793 your vibe I would say that yes it's 00:25:24.793 --> 00:25:27.853 going to last longer than the 10-year deal because it's so simple 00:25:27.853 --> 00:25:30.973 it's just so simple and it very much is 00:25:30.973 --> 00:25:34.673 the same as the Sky Sports deal obviously there was 00:25:34.673 --> 00:25:37.493 no back catalogue then because Sky Sports couldn't really do with 00:25:37.493 --> 00:25:40.273 the back kind of thing it really didn't exist you know 00:25:40.273 --> 00:25:43.213 in those days i mean it's just a case of put 00:25:43.213 --> 00:25:47.953 your product on our platform and we'll promote it properly which is exactly 00:25:47.953 --> 00:25:52.173 what sky sports did for years sky sports had a great relationship promoted everything 00:25:52.173 --> 00:25:57.233 really well got wrestlers involved in randomly sky sports news or on other shows 00:25:57.233 --> 00:26:01.053 or whatever netflix does the same thing they did that show with the guy that 00:26:01.053 --> 00:26:03.193 climbed the skyscraper well one of the. 00:26:06.253 --> 00:26:09.733 There is a lot of cross-platform stuff, and it's what Sky Sports did. 00:26:09.873 --> 00:26:13.593 It's what BT, TNT refused to do. That's why it fell apart. 00:26:13.773 --> 00:26:18.153 So I do think it will last. Unless someone outbids them, I just think it will 00:26:18.153 --> 00:26:20.033 be a very long-term partnership. 00:26:20.333 --> 00:26:25.473 Yeah, and for Netflix, I can't emphasize this enough, what a significant thing 00:26:25.473 --> 00:26:27.473 it was to take this on live. 00:26:28.033 --> 00:26:32.973 You and I both remember how disastrous the first couple of live things Netflix did were. 00:26:33.633 --> 00:26:36.493 Yeah i mean the first the first couple of monday 00:26:36.493 --> 00:26:39.113 night rolls were not the best there was a lot of 00:26:39.113 --> 00:26:41.933 buffering a lot of i was gonna ask you about this 00:26:41.933 --> 00:26:44.813 yes yeah but they very quickly ironed them 00:26:44.813 --> 00:26:47.693 out and i think that's helped them with everything else they've done 00:26:47.693 --> 00:26:53.213 since because you've got three you've actually got three weekly live shows you've 00:26:53.213 --> 00:26:57.113 got an mxt one which is on a tuesday night so you've got three chances every 00:26:57.113 --> 00:27:01.933 week to fix what went wrong the previous week and as i say they've brought that 00:27:01.933 --> 00:27:05.413 through to everything else they've done on Netflix so it's been a win from them 00:27:05.413 --> 00:27:06.473 from a technical point of view. 00:27:07.297 --> 00:27:12.077 I think that is such an important point because, you know, they're going to 00:27:12.077 --> 00:27:13.317 be showing the Women's World Cup. 00:27:13.577 --> 00:27:17.157 Like, let's be under no illusions. They're going to try and get bigger and bigger 00:27:17.157 --> 00:27:19.277 and bigger sports, like live sports. 00:27:19.337 --> 00:27:23.097 I'm talking the footballs, you know, they're showing NFL on Christmas Day now. 00:27:23.837 --> 00:27:29.317 Like, these are big, big global sports. And I think you're right that having 00:27:29.317 --> 00:27:32.417 this weekly thing that they have to get right every single week. 00:27:32.497 --> 00:27:37.617 I assume there is production collaboration with WWE and all the infrastructure 00:27:37.617 --> 00:27:45.997 it had which again will help um will help netflix and i think that it was almost 00:27:45.997 --> 00:27:51.197 worth the money for netflix just to get that right and prove it could do it. 00:27:51.877 --> 00:27:59.317 I mean yeah because wwe has been doing this for 60 70 years so you're not going 00:27:59.317 --> 00:28:02.857 to find a company with more expertise than wwe when it comes to live events 00:28:02.857 --> 00:28:05.017 streaming stuff on your own platform, 00:28:05.577 --> 00:28:08.757 they were streaming stuff on their own website streaming live shows 00:28:08.757 --> 00:28:12.097 i think uh 2003 was the 00:28:12.097 --> 00:28:14.957 first one they did on their own wwe website they 00:28:14.957 --> 00:28:17.557 had fans voting in and all that kind of stuff so they've been 00:28:17.557 --> 00:28:21.117 doing this longer than anyone else so it's it's a win-win for netflix it really 00:28:21.117 --> 00:28:25.057 is fascinating i've really enjoyed this conversation adam where can people keep 00:28:25.057 --> 00:28:31.297 up with you and all that you do just on twitter really unfortunately because 00:28:31.297 --> 00:28:35.757 i'm still on the platform give us your It's just at A. Kayla. 00:28:36.357 --> 00:28:40.217 A. Kayla. Adam, I've really enjoyed talking to you. I'm at Charlotte A. 00:28:40.277 --> 00:28:43.257 Henry across pretty much any social media platform. You can find me. 00:28:43.717 --> 00:28:48.857 Head over to theedition.net for blogs, newsletters, podcasts. 00:28:49.317 --> 00:28:53.497 Do buy my book, Streaming Wars, wherever you get your books as well. 00:28:53.837 --> 00:28:57.357 It actually does have a bit on Netflix and wrestling. So if you've enjoyed this 00:28:57.357 --> 00:28:59.077 conversation, you can dig into that as well. 00:28:59.737 --> 00:29:02.717 Adam, thanks so much for joining me and I'll see you all next week.