WEBVTT 00:00:19.285 --> 00:00:24.105 I'm your host, Charlotte Henry. I hope you had a very good Christmas and New. 00:00:24.105 --> 00:00:27.185 Year. Welcome back for 2026. 00:00:27.825 --> 00:00:32.005 2025 was a pretty massive year for women's football in England. 00:00:32.925 --> 00:00:38.765 And I think 2026 could continue that trend. So who better to talk through all 00:00:38.765 --> 00:00:43.405 of this than the BBC superstar women's football reporter, Emma Sanders. 00:00:43.565 --> 00:00:44.465 Hello, Emma. How are you? 00:00:44.965 --> 00:00:47.605 Hello. That was a very nice welcome. Thank you very much. Well, 00:00:47.925 --> 00:00:52.665 I hope you had a good Christmas and New Year and you've been a superstar in 2025. 00:00:53.145 --> 00:00:57.085 I mean, it's not like anything happened to England's women's football in 2025. 00:00:57.145 --> 00:00:59.025 It's just been a quite casual year for you. 00:01:00.145 --> 00:01:04.125 Go on, two seconds. How do you reflect on last year and how all that was? 00:01:04.285 --> 00:01:06.905 The Euros win, the WSL, all of it. 00:01:07.465 --> 00:01:10.925 Yeah, I think it was amazing, wasn't it? Obviously, being able to report on 00:01:10.925 --> 00:01:13.165 England winning a second Euros is pretty cool, isn't it? 00:01:13.245 --> 00:01:17.025 So I've got a decent track record. I've covered five major tournaments, 00:01:17.205 --> 00:01:20.885 including the men's and four of them, England, have got through to the final. 00:01:21.125 --> 00:01:24.525 So, yeah, so I've done all right there. But yeah, a fantastic year. 00:01:24.625 --> 00:01:27.525 Lots of changes in the WSL, which I'm sure we'll talk about. Yeah. 00:01:28.105 --> 00:01:31.485 So I think 2026 is just going to be a really interesting year. 00:01:31.665 --> 00:01:35.805 And obviously without a major tournament makes it kind of more focused on the domestic football. 00:01:36.465 --> 00:01:41.045 Yeah, I was going to ask you about that because we know in terms of what I cover 00:01:41.045 --> 00:01:46.025 on the show, in terms of things like media coverage and public interest and so on, 00:01:46.165 --> 00:01:50.865 we know how important the major tournaments are in women's football because 00:01:50.865 --> 00:01:55.505 it always started off as a game that was focused on kind of the international game. 00:01:56.025 --> 00:02:00.865 How big do you think this year is in terms of establishing the domestic game? 00:02:01.205 --> 00:02:05.085 Yeah, I think it's massive. And actually, I think England winning the Euros 00:02:05.085 --> 00:02:07.805 in 2022 obviously had a huge impact on, 00:02:08.465 --> 00:02:11.545 I suppose, media coverage of the domestic game off the back of it. 00:02:11.705 --> 00:02:14.745 But I think it was still pretty much kind of the core people that did it. 00:02:14.965 --> 00:02:18.285 You know, I hate to put myself in that category, but there are only a handful 00:02:18.285 --> 00:02:21.485 of kind of, you know, full-time national journalists. 00:02:21.665 --> 00:02:25.345 And then you've obviously got full-time freelancers who work very hard on women's 00:02:25.345 --> 00:02:28.845 football. And then you've got a couple of part-time sort of women's football writers. 00:02:29.065 --> 00:02:32.065 And aside from that, it really, really is slim picking. 00:02:32.345 --> 00:02:37.845 So I think, you know, despite 2022 having a huge impact on the game as a whole, 00:02:38.065 --> 00:02:41.545 maybe on the media and the broadcast, it looked bigger than what it was. 00:02:41.705 --> 00:02:44.165 It was still pretty much the same people just kind of doing more. 00:02:44.885 --> 00:02:52.705 So I think off the back of England winning 2025, there has to be more resources given to the sport. 00:02:52.865 --> 00:02:54.945 And I think it could go one of two ways. 00:02:55.265 --> 00:03:00.605 So I suppose the downside is because there isn't another major tournament backing 00:03:00.605 --> 00:03:04.505 it up, then perhaps media companies won't employ anyone new because there's 00:03:04.505 --> 00:03:07.845 not like a huge Euros, for example, that they have to build up for. 00:03:08.345 --> 00:03:11.305 But it could go the positive way in which, you know, they see, 00:03:11.485 --> 00:03:12.945 hang on, England have just won, 00:03:13.587 --> 00:03:15.247 two back-to-back Euros in a 00:03:15.247 --> 00:03:18.707 row, we really need to start pumping some resources into women's football. 00:03:18.927 --> 00:03:22.907 So it's the latter that I hope happens, but you never know. 00:03:23.367 --> 00:03:26.927 Not many journalists want competition on their beat, but it sounds like you kind of do. 00:03:27.087 --> 00:03:30.207 You want to be... I mean, I wrote about this at the end of last year. 00:03:30.367 --> 00:03:36.327 I covered the Spurs versus Aston Villa game at Brisbane Road towards the end of 2025. 00:03:36.887 --> 00:03:40.327 And there was basically no one in the press gantry for that game. 00:03:40.527 --> 00:03:44.187 Now, a couple of weeks earlier, I've been at the North London Derby, Spurs versus Arsenal. 00:03:44.667 --> 00:03:49.027 You were there, all the other national reporters there, Megan from The Athletic and so on. 00:03:49.407 --> 00:03:53.227 But there's not that many people going to the games week in, 00:03:53.347 --> 00:03:55.067 week out. And you're only one person. 00:03:55.447 --> 00:04:00.707 Megan at The Athletic is only one person. You can only be at one game on one day. 00:04:01.407 --> 00:04:05.647 Yeah, and that's the thing. It's like we're covering 12 clubs. 00:04:05.767 --> 00:04:06.987 We're also covering England. 00:04:07.327 --> 00:04:10.027 We're also covering, you know, Champions League. and like for 00:04:10.027 --> 00:04:13.467 example 2025 season it's like i 00:04:13.467 --> 00:04:16.547 had eight days of annual leave um after the 00:04:16.547 --> 00:04:19.947 euros and i think my biggest like kind 00:04:19.947 --> 00:04:22.547 of holiday if you'd like aside from that in the 00:04:22.547 --> 00:04:26.687 year was was two days in a row so you know we we have to take time off as well 00:04:26.687 --> 00:04:29.947 like we can't work seven days a week as well so i think that's that's the thing 00:04:29.947 --> 00:04:33.787 you know we're also kind of expected to do you know transfer news we're expected 00:04:33.787 --> 00:04:38.787 to do um well for example in my job i work across radio tv and online so So 00:04:38.787 --> 00:04:41.247 probably 80% of my job is broadcast as well, 00:04:41.387 --> 00:04:43.767 which obviously isn't really factored in much at games. 00:04:43.927 --> 00:04:47.967 So if I'm doing sort of a game on a weekend, that's majority radio and written. 00:04:48.227 --> 00:04:52.847 So I sort of lose, you know, half, like kind of a third of the job sort of doing that that day. 00:04:53.047 --> 00:04:56.067 So yeah, it's really difficult to manage. And I think obviously, 00:04:56.747 --> 00:04:59.387 you know, when there is like, for example, a North London derby that weekend, 00:04:59.567 --> 00:05:02.767 that's obviously going to be the one that all the Nationals go to because that's 00:05:02.767 --> 00:05:04.987 the one that we're going to get the most coverage for. Sure. 00:05:05.727 --> 00:05:09.227 So it's a really difficult one to balance. and I you know, 00:05:10.104 --> 00:05:12.944 completely understand what you're saying in terms of competition on 00:05:12.944 --> 00:05:16.544 the beat I don't really see it as competition I mean you 00:05:16.544 --> 00:05:19.764 know I work for BBC because I'm I'm 00:05:19.764 --> 00:05:22.904 less bothered about the clicks if I'm being honest so don't 00:05:22.904 --> 00:05:26.004 get me wrong an exclusive is nice but I'm not really that bothered and 00:05:26.004 --> 00:05:28.924 that's kind of not really what my job is that's a 00:05:28.924 --> 00:05:32.344 bit of a bonus really it's more like okay what can 00:05:32.344 --> 00:05:35.144 I do that's different to everyone else with the resources that we have with 00:05:35.144 --> 00:05:38.044 the platform that we have so I think it's different types of 00:05:38.044 --> 00:05:40.704 media isn't it if you're working for you know a 00:05:40.704 --> 00:05:43.684 newspaper then there is a lot of pressure to get you know 00:05:43.684 --> 00:05:46.824 a story first to get to get clicks so naturally 00:05:46.824 --> 00:05:49.824 maybe the things that you cover will be slightly different or the way in which 00:05:49.824 --> 00:05:52.824 you cover it is slightly different but I think on the whole I think we're actually 00:05:52.824 --> 00:05:56.204 really lucky and obviously I've I'm somebody who worked in the men's game for 00:05:56.204 --> 00:06:00.324 for seven years of my eight years at BBC so I think we're really lucky that 00:06:00.324 --> 00:06:03.804 I think the women's football media group that we have. 00:06:04.702 --> 00:06:09.062 Is really good, really talented. And I think there's some really good reporting 00:06:09.062 --> 00:06:13.562 and, you know, they maybe take a lot of flack from fans and I get it, 00:06:13.662 --> 00:06:15.922 like it's the media and it's fine, it's part of the job. 00:06:16.162 --> 00:06:19.682 But I do think, you know, they just need some support. And I think everyone 00:06:19.682 --> 00:06:24.242 would welcome two or three more staff members to cover women's football in their 00:06:24.242 --> 00:06:26.542 workplace because it all helps each other really. 00:06:26.702 --> 00:06:29.882 And I think the main difference is, you know, 00:06:30.002 --> 00:06:32.682 working in men's football it was it was a job don't get me wrong we 00:06:32.682 --> 00:06:36.202 loved what we did but it was a job whereas working in women's football I think 00:06:36.202 --> 00:06:41.722 we all have a a greater purpose and it's about empowering women and promoting 00:06:41.722 --> 00:06:45.822 women's sport and I think it it just means a little bit more that's such an 00:06:45.822 --> 00:06:51.562 interesting point and I I do get that sense when I you know very lucky to get to some of the games. 00:06:52.282 --> 00:06:55.902 It does feel like the media coverage 00:06:55.902 --> 00:06:59.182 of women's sport and women's football is about more 00:06:59.182 --> 00:07:02.222 than writing what happened in the 90 minutes it does feel 00:07:02.222 --> 00:07:04.982 like that and that does feel different to uh you know 00:07:04.982 --> 00:07:07.762 how men's football is covered and i 00:07:07.762 --> 00:07:11.162 i think i mean i'm sort of horrified when you tell me how little time off you 00:07:11.162 --> 00:07:17.062 had and how because it's um you know it is just a huge amount of stuff to cover 00:07:17.062 --> 00:07:22.922 and as i say my slight gripe is that i wrote a piece about this in 2025 about 00:07:22.922 --> 00:07:27.102 how it's sort of just three or four teams that get the major coverage and, 00:07:27.667 --> 00:07:31.527 But your point is the right one. And I put this in the piece as well. 00:07:31.767 --> 00:07:37.387 There needs to be more reporters because you guys, we can all only be in one place at one time. Yeah. 00:07:38.267 --> 00:07:42.227 And I think the newsroom should make a New Year's resolution if they haven't 00:07:42.227 --> 00:07:44.907 already to send more people to more women's football. 00:07:46.167 --> 00:07:50.967 Yeah, 100%. I mean, a great example is, you know, during the week when there's press conferences. 00:07:50.967 --> 00:07:54.007 I mean I would say nine out of the 12 that I 00:07:54.007 --> 00:07:56.787 might do in a week or I don't know I probably won't do 00:07:56.787 --> 00:07:59.427 all 12 maybe seven out of the nine that I'll do in 00:07:59.427 --> 00:08:02.767 a week probably all in my free time it's only two that's actually up during 00:08:02.767 --> 00:08:08.687 my shift time if that exists and that's because you know um you want to make 00:08:08.687 --> 00:08:12.287 sure that you cover in Everton and Villa and and all that sort of stuff and 00:08:12.287 --> 00:08:14.607 and obviously we're not going to be do that we're not going to be able to do 00:08:14.607 --> 00:08:17.387 it every week but But that's, you know. 00:08:17.607 --> 00:08:22.387 I suppose what we have to try and do because I could say that I would say 95% 00:08:22.387 --> 00:08:26.887 of media is obviously, you know, they're catering to an audience. 00:08:26.987 --> 00:08:29.047 So that is sort of dominated by clicks. 00:08:29.187 --> 00:08:33.627 And this is why I think sometimes, you know, aggravate accounts on Twitter or 00:08:33.627 --> 00:08:38.607 maybe, you know, people that steal photos without credit and stuff like that. 00:08:38.607 --> 00:08:41.727 It has a significant impact because if people 00:08:41.727 --> 00:08:44.467 aren't clicking on the stories on the telegraph on 00:08:44.467 --> 00:08:47.367 the bbc on sky on the athletic on the 00:08:47.367 --> 00:08:50.587 times whatever then the editors are going well there's no 00:08:50.587 --> 00:08:54.227 interest in that so um we're not going to find any space for it in our paper 00:08:54.227 --> 00:08:59.987 or we're not going to we're not going to put resources in so don't just basically 00:08:59.987 --> 00:09:04.467 you know don't just share stuff on twitter don't just you know kind of rip photos 00:09:04.467 --> 00:09:07.867 off you know freelance photographers and stuff Like make sure you give them the credit, 00:09:08.027 --> 00:09:13.447 make sure you click on their work and read their stories because that's what's going to get the clicks. 00:09:13.607 --> 00:09:18.367 And when you get the clicks, that then gives the editors and the newsrooms information. 00:09:19.268 --> 00:09:23.188 A reason to have to provide those resources. You're absolutely right. 00:09:23.408 --> 00:09:27.368 And it's, I mean, there's a very interesting cultural thing that we could chat 00:09:27.368 --> 00:09:29.948 about online culture around women's football. 00:09:30.148 --> 00:09:33.008 And we know that they're always going to be Arsenal, Chelsea in particular, 00:09:33.168 --> 00:09:37.688 then the two Manchester clubs are the ones that people are always going to focus on. 00:09:37.928 --> 00:09:41.988 Do you at the BBC particularly, I think this is a particular BBC question, 00:09:42.328 --> 00:09:46.968 feel you have the responsibility as the national broadcast or whatever to cover 00:09:46.968 --> 00:09:48.208 the league more broadly? 00:09:49.068 --> 00:09:52.288 Yeah, 100%. I mean, obviously, I can't speak to the BBC as a company as a whole. 00:09:52.528 --> 00:09:57.668 Certainly, myself as a journalist that represents the BBC, that's 100% how I feel. 00:09:57.788 --> 00:10:05.988 And I think there's a reason why the BBC wants to do more women's sport coverage on free-to-air TV. 00:10:06.848 --> 00:10:10.168 I think that is obvious. That's something I can point to as an example. 00:10:10.468 --> 00:10:13.968 Do I want more? Well, look how they covered the Women's Rugby World Cup. 00:10:14.168 --> 00:10:16.348 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, a great example. 00:10:16.968 --> 00:10:22.768 I know we do a lot on TMS, on Radio 5 Live, on the women's dashes and in the cricket as well. 00:10:23.388 --> 00:10:27.008 We're not talking about cricket at the moment, Emma. Yeah, yeah, sorry. 00:10:27.968 --> 00:10:32.148 Cricket's banned. Cricket's very banned. Yeah, but I think it's, 00:10:32.228 --> 00:10:35.568 yeah, it's one of those, isn't it, where, yeah, I'm banging on the door every day. 00:10:35.648 --> 00:10:38.728 I want more resources and, you know, my employers know that. 00:10:38.728 --> 00:10:41.968 So I'm not saying anything out of turn, but I do think... 00:10:42.566 --> 00:10:47.126 I do think places like BBC and also Sky, who have slightly different, 00:10:47.366 --> 00:10:50.166 but they obviously have a broadcast rights deal for the WSL. 00:10:50.426 --> 00:10:55.366 Do you think there is a responsibility that maybe where areas aren't being covered, 00:10:55.386 --> 00:10:58.326 we have to try and look at it? I think the theory of it is there. 00:10:58.586 --> 00:11:01.746 Whether or not it's been put into practice fully yet, I think it hasn't because 00:11:01.746 --> 00:11:07.546 I'm still across the entire BBC, radio, TV and online, the only women's football reporter, full stop. 00:11:07.846 --> 00:11:12.606 So there's work to be done, basically. but I think that is the intention and 00:11:12.606 --> 00:11:15.846 it has to be the intention when you're a national broadcaster. 00:11:16.246 --> 00:11:19.646 Yeah. No, I think that's fair. BBC does have other responsibilities. 00:11:19.746 --> 00:11:23.106 I can tell you as an individual, you know, I know that from being at games with 00:11:23.106 --> 00:11:26.626 you and following your work. Do you take that quite seriously? Thank you. 00:11:28.306 --> 00:11:32.126 I want to talk also about the access you get in the women's game and how different 00:11:32.126 --> 00:11:33.166 that was to the men's game. 00:11:33.466 --> 00:11:36.326 Now, I know that, you know, it might be different for you at the BBC because 00:11:36.326 --> 00:11:38.926 people are always going to engage with the BBC at big clubs. 00:11:38.926 --> 00:11:42.086 But as someone who's not who covers 00:11:42.086 --> 00:11:44.906 the women's game but not at a you know at a 00:11:44.906 --> 00:11:48.086 major broadcaster me just myself at a little indie publication 00:11:48.086 --> 00:11:51.126 the access to the women's game is much 00:11:51.126 --> 00:11:53.886 greater for the media the access you get to players to 00:11:53.886 --> 00:11:59.086 managers to the games is it's much more accessible and much more open and that's 00:11:59.086 --> 00:12:02.866 a really wonderful thing i find and that's one thing the women's game does really 00:12:02.866 --> 00:12:08.146 well in the way it engages with the media is that it's it's really you know 00:12:08.146 --> 00:12:11.706 i've I've had the pleasure of going to Arsenal versus Real Madrid in the Champions League. 00:12:11.866 --> 00:12:15.026 I get to go to Spurs, you know, I could go to Stamford Bridge. 00:12:15.226 --> 00:12:19.106 It's really good how the women's game is accessible to the media and therefore 00:12:19.106 --> 00:12:20.166 accessible to the public. 00:12:20.844 --> 00:12:25.064 Yeah, I think so. It's interesting. I think there's probably two parts to this. 00:12:25.364 --> 00:12:28.464 There's definitely more access in women's football than there is in men's for 00:12:28.464 --> 00:12:31.264 all media full stop. I think I completely agree with that. 00:12:31.904 --> 00:12:36.044 I think that's because there's an understanding that, you know, 00:12:36.104 --> 00:12:39.744 the women's game needs more coverage and the media can help them. 00:12:40.804 --> 00:12:45.444 However, I would say that is dramatically changing at a quick rate. 00:12:45.444 --> 00:12:50.984 I mean, I think back to even the access we were getting three years ago in 2022 00:12:50.984 --> 00:12:53.724 to what we're getting now is a lot less. 00:12:54.024 --> 00:12:57.524 Are you talking about things like getting interviews with players and so on? 00:12:57.884 --> 00:13:00.324 Yeah, I suppose every form of access, really. 00:13:00.844 --> 00:13:05.164 I think just getting interviews with players, having more, I would say, 00:13:05.304 --> 00:13:06.924 sort of like off record briefings where, 00:13:07.144 --> 00:13:10.324 you know, quite often we'd have like an end of the year something with 00:13:10.324 --> 00:13:13.084 with a club or with with the national team where 00:13:13.084 --> 00:13:16.104 we'd sort of round off okay what are the intentions for certain 00:13:16.104 --> 00:13:18.824 places going into next year I should say the FA are very 00:13:18.824 --> 00:13:21.864 good at that by the way they do do that very regularly but 00:13:21.864 --> 00:13:24.884 I think clubs could do more and and should do more in 00:13:24.884 --> 00:13:28.484 that front I think also just um having 00:13:28.484 --> 00:13:32.204 open open and honest conversations and transparency isn't 00:13:32.204 --> 00:13:35.144 as you know good now as it was three years 00:13:35.144 --> 00:13:37.824 ago I think the fans can probably see that I think 00:13:37.824 --> 00:13:40.824 I think we are becoming more like men's football but I 00:13:40.824 --> 00:13:43.544 would also say the second point to it I guess is 00:13:43.544 --> 00:13:46.624 that even for the BBC I think 00:13:46.624 --> 00:13:49.704 we we're probably respected more in the women's game because 00:13:49.704 --> 00:13:52.904 we have that broadcast rights deal same with 00:13:52.904 --> 00:13:57.204 Sky and same with ITD I think one of the things I enjoy about women's football 00:13:57.204 --> 00:14:01.204 is that they do investment so if you're kind of investing in the sport or putting 00:14:01.204 --> 00:14:05.664 time into it I do think there is conscious thought processes of you know what 00:14:05.664 --> 00:14:10.024 can we do to help the BBC's coverage of our game or how can we. 00:14:10.726 --> 00:14:13.566 Make their investment worthwhile so for example 00:14:13.566 --> 00:14:16.586 people who might not know we have let's say we're covering 00:14:16.586 --> 00:14:19.506 a game a WSL game on the weekend between Aston 00:14:19.506 --> 00:14:22.326 Villa and Liverpool you know we would 00:14:22.326 --> 00:14:27.126 be sort of entitled to have at least one player interview to kind of tee up 00:14:27.126 --> 00:14:31.406 that game and that's just kind of given to us it's part well I say given you 00:14:31.406 --> 00:14:36.226 know we have paid for it but it's kind of part of our agreement so you know 00:14:36.226 --> 00:14:41.446 that's an example um but yeah I do think we're we're getting, 00:14:42.006 --> 00:14:46.206 we've still got great access but we're getting more and more and more towards 00:14:46.206 --> 00:14:49.926 the attitudes of men's football I would say I think it's becoming more of seen 00:14:49.926 --> 00:14:53.606 as a bit more of a chore as opposed to you know we can really work with the 00:14:53.606 --> 00:14:56.346 media that's interesting it's a bit of a shame really. 00:14:57.666 --> 00:15:00.986 Because first of all there are some great characters in women's football and 00:15:00.986 --> 00:15:05.166 they're not quite as slickly media trained just yet as their male counterparts. 00:15:05.366 --> 00:15:08.726 So you do get some quite fun answers from some of the girls. 00:15:08.846 --> 00:15:11.206 And I do hope we don't lose that particularly. 00:15:11.886 --> 00:15:14.586 Yeah. Because there are some great characters in the women's game. 00:15:15.006 --> 00:15:17.826 Yeah. And I don't think it's the people I should probably clarify. 00:15:18.006 --> 00:15:20.306 I don't think it's necessarily like the people in the game, like, 00:15:20.406 --> 00:15:22.566 you know, the players and the staff, et cetera. 00:15:22.726 --> 00:15:25.446 I think it's just, it's a general attitude, I think, I suppose, 00:15:25.606 --> 00:15:26.966 coming from top to bottom in clubs, 00:15:27.126 --> 00:15:30.826 because as women's football becomes more professionalised, nationalized naturally 00:15:30.826 --> 00:15:34.386 you're leaning towards a professional model that you already have set up for 00:15:34.386 --> 00:15:38.386 the men's team and there's you know just structural and cultural things that 00:15:38.386 --> 00:15:43.026 exist there that I feel like we may be edging towards in women's game and we've seen this. 00:15:43.728 --> 00:15:48.128 You know, in terms of, you know, more physically, in terms of staffing, 00:15:48.448 --> 00:15:54.148 a lot of clubs now are just using men's teams, employers on their women's team 00:15:54.148 --> 00:15:56.268 because, you know, the men's team have got the resources. 00:15:56.648 --> 00:15:59.028 So, for example. In terms of communication stuff and things. 00:15:59.168 --> 00:16:03.728 Yeah, communications, things like, you know, science and research and medicine 00:16:03.728 --> 00:16:07.408 and stuff because you've got you've got stuff there, you know, 00:16:07.448 --> 00:16:08.648 in abundance in the men's game. 00:16:08.648 --> 00:16:12.888 That you know you look at sort of women's team setups now compared to three 00:16:12.888 --> 00:16:17.328 years ago and I would say it's more of a 50-50 half of them are actually kind 00:16:17.328 --> 00:16:21.648 of working or have been working in the men's team and have you know been pulled 00:16:21.648 --> 00:16:24.588 over so naturally that's going to affect I suppose the 00:16:24.888 --> 00:16:28.628 attitudes both positively and negatively towards towards yeah 00:16:28.628 --> 00:16:32.228 the women's team do have to have those highly professional resources 00:16:32.228 --> 00:16:35.468 yeah yeah it's really interesting now talking 00:16:35.468 --> 00:16:38.308 of player interviews you know I'm 00:16:38.308 --> 00:16:41.208 going with this you did quite a big one not that long 00:16:41.208 --> 00:16:44.788 ago uh with a certain Mary Earps who obviously 00:16:44.788 --> 00:16:47.728 was the former England goalkeeper was now at 00:16:47.728 --> 00:16:52.608 Paris Saint-Germain having left Man United very big character in the women's 00:16:52.608 --> 00:16:57.428 game and she obviously put out a book that caused quite a stir then you did 00:16:57.428 --> 00:17:05.828 an interview with her that kept sort of that stir going talk to me about how that all came about. 00:17:06.188 --> 00:17:09.668 Obviously, she wanted to promote the book. You're always keen to talk to the 00:17:09.668 --> 00:17:11.648 top players. How did it all come about? 00:17:12.488 --> 00:17:17.068 Yeah, it's a bit of a whirlwind, really. We already had the interview set up 00:17:17.068 --> 00:17:21.088 before the book came out, but we obviously knew when it was coming out. 00:17:22.474 --> 00:17:26.274 We had some of the extracts under embargo. So we, you know, we'd seen some bits. 00:17:26.314 --> 00:17:29.654 I actually logged in on my day off on Friday. 00:17:30.074 --> 00:17:34.794 So great example. So it wasn't actually a day off, but I basically think I opened 00:17:34.794 --> 00:17:39.274 the book at 6am and finished it at just gone half seven at night. 00:17:39.574 --> 00:17:43.074 Read the entire book in a day to prepare for the interview on Sunday. 00:17:44.994 --> 00:17:47.854 And yeah, and it was, yeah. So I actually did the interview. 00:17:48.134 --> 00:17:51.074 It would have been probably just under 48 hours before it came out. 00:17:51.194 --> 00:17:56.034 And so it was a quick turnaround. because that went out on, it must have been about 15 platforms. 00:17:56.334 --> 00:17:58.134 So obviously we did a thing for iPlayer. 00:17:58.934 --> 00:18:03.694 I wrote a written piece, went out as a podcast on Five Live and then it went 00:18:03.694 --> 00:18:06.754 out and all of the other bits and bobs, you know, like news versions. 00:18:07.134 --> 00:18:09.354 Yeah, I watched the full thing on the iPlayer, I think. 00:18:09.914 --> 00:18:13.474 Well, that one was actually not the full thing. That was maybe 20 minutes of it. 00:18:13.734 --> 00:18:18.014 And the full thing, I think, only went on Five Live podcast, 00:18:18.274 --> 00:18:19.414 which was the full. That's right. 00:18:19.554 --> 00:18:22.734 I watched about the 20 minutes. yeah yeah so 00:18:22.734 --> 00:18:25.394 yeah kind of that was obviously you know a lot 00:18:25.394 --> 00:18:28.794 of work to do but obviously I didn't do all that myself loads 00:18:28.794 --> 00:18:32.254 of loads and loads of people did helped with that um but 00:18:32.254 --> 00:18:35.754 yeah you sort of just you you set up the interview via agents 00:18:35.754 --> 00:18:38.774 via publishers and there was lots of people involved because it's 00:18:38.774 --> 00:18:42.334 a book and obviously Mary's a big name yeah I've known 00:18:42.334 --> 00:18:45.134 Mary a while um obviously I've worked in the women's 00:18:45.134 --> 00:18:47.894 game well been paid to work in the women's game for probably about four 00:18:47.894 --> 00:18:50.734 years but I've been working in it for almost a decade 00:18:50.734 --> 00:18:55.414 probably more actually yeah so you know I've known her for a while which helps 00:18:55.414 --> 00:19:00.214 because she sort of trusted you to have that conversation yeah it helps her 00:19:00.214 --> 00:19:03.454 feel a little bit more comfortable hopefully or the other way she might she 00:19:03.454 --> 00:19:08.134 might not like me so that might make it harder but either way you sort of know how they might. 00:19:08.773 --> 00:19:11.953 Might be in the interview you might know little things that will help warm them 00:19:11.953 --> 00:19:16.093 up and stuff so yeah then we filmed it at the bbc studios in london because 00:19:16.093 --> 00:19:20.233 i was down there anyway for the chelsea game on the saturday um she flew in 00:19:20.233 --> 00:19:22.493 from paris for the weekend yep filmed that, 00:19:23.093 --> 00:19:26.033 um and then yeah basically went back up to manchester sorted all 00:19:26.033 --> 00:19:28.793 that but there's lots of phone calls in between which obviously i can't go 00:19:28.793 --> 00:19:31.913 into details about but um just you 00:19:31.913 --> 00:19:34.593 know obviously there was a lot going on that had come out the day before so we 00:19:34.593 --> 00:19:37.233 had certain um time frames that 00:19:37.233 --> 00:19:41.013 we had to hit so for example we knew that we our 00:19:41.013 --> 00:19:44.253 interview would be the first one that would go out after kind 00:19:44.253 --> 00:19:47.293 of the reaction so um rather than 00:19:47.293 --> 00:19:52.193 just sort of focusing on uh like the elephant in the room was the chat on Hannah 00:19:52.193 --> 00:19:56.873 Hampton which we knew that there had already been two other pre-recorded interviews 00:19:56.873 --> 00:20:00.733 that were going to go out for hours so that was why I didn't basically ask ask 00:20:00.733 --> 00:20:05.213 outright you know what's your opinion of Hannah Hampton for example Do you hate 00:20:05.213 --> 00:20:06.993 the person that's replaced you in the team? 00:20:07.473 --> 00:20:10.833 Yeah, but it's kind of pointless because we knew she would have answered it 00:20:10.833 --> 00:20:12.693 three times before our interview would have gone out. 00:20:12.833 --> 00:20:16.133 So it was like, okay, what can we do that's maybe slightly different? 00:20:16.413 --> 00:20:20.353 So yeah, we sort of looked at more the reaction side of things. But what I would say. 00:20:21.088 --> 00:20:24.828 I think when you're doing these interviews, like for me, and this is something 00:20:24.828 --> 00:20:28.388 I feel really strongly about, is that you've always got to remember that there's 00:20:28.388 --> 00:20:29.608 a person that you're speaking to. 00:20:30.028 --> 00:20:33.288 So I think, you know, at the time there was a lot of gossip and a lot of like, 00:20:33.808 --> 00:20:36.808 you know, I suppose people were enjoying it on social media. 00:20:37.028 --> 00:20:41.008 And look, that's part of why she wrote a book. I'm sure she was expecting some of this. 00:20:41.628 --> 00:20:45.748 She's an intelligent person. She wouldn't have, you know, she wouldn't have 00:20:45.748 --> 00:20:48.288 written the book without knowing that there was obviously going to be some kind 00:20:48.288 --> 00:20:53.268 of media attention around it. But I think it was difficult for everyone in that situation. 00:20:53.628 --> 00:20:57.008 You know, I found it difficult because there was a human being sat opposite 00:20:57.008 --> 00:20:59.348 me that I know was getting pelters. 00:20:59.808 --> 00:21:04.188 So, you know, I was trying to ask the right questions, which I think is always 00:21:04.188 --> 00:21:06.148 the first thing you have to do in journalism. 00:21:06.568 --> 00:21:09.948 But then something I believe in strongly is that I think you can ask the right 00:21:09.948 --> 00:21:11.308 questions, but do it with empathy. 00:21:11.968 --> 00:21:15.668 Yeah, you can be respectful. Yeah. And I think like, you know, 00:21:15.748 --> 00:21:18.168 I hope that came across in the interview because that was probably my number 00:21:18.168 --> 00:21:24.888 one goal was just ask the right questions, but I don't want to hurt her any more than she might be. 00:21:24.988 --> 00:21:27.748 Did you think, was she hurt? I mean, I watched the interview, 00:21:27.768 --> 00:21:32.628 as I say, and she seemed quite shell-shocked when she was talking to you. 00:21:33.288 --> 00:21:36.008 Yeah. I thought, was that your impression in the room? Yeah. 00:21:36.626 --> 00:21:39.526 Yeah, I think, look, I think everyone was hurt by it. 00:21:39.986 --> 00:21:44.066 I don't really want to necessarily single out certain individuals in it, 00:21:44.146 --> 00:21:46.806 but I think everyone was. I think that's fair to say. 00:21:47.026 --> 00:21:50.326 It was a difficult situation. But like I say, you know, she wrote a book, 00:21:50.366 --> 00:21:53.306 she would have known that there was going to be backlash, but she's also human. 00:21:53.306 --> 00:21:56.386 And I don't think she would have expected probably the level of backlash. 00:21:57.206 --> 00:22:03.386 And that's just something that she had to deal with whether or not people think 00:22:03.386 --> 00:22:08.106 she's right or she's wrong or whatever people's opinion have and obviously my 00:22:08.106 --> 00:22:12.166 job on the day wasn't to judge her but naturally I'm human so deep down I've 00:22:12.166 --> 00:22:14.806 got some sort of opinions on what it is. 00:22:16.906 --> 00:22:19.606 You can tell me that off there, I know you're not going to tell me on there 00:22:19.606 --> 00:22:22.486 but I'll put the kettle on and we can discuss it off there, 00:22:23.744 --> 00:22:27.224 But I think that's the most important thing, really, 00:22:27.424 --> 00:22:31.884 is that, you know, do an interview or you try and give her the platform to portray 00:22:31.884 --> 00:22:37.084 herself in whatever way she chooses to, and then it's up to the public or the 00:22:37.084 --> 00:22:39.004 readers or the watchers, the listeners, 00:22:39.204 --> 00:22:41.264 to make their own decisions. 00:22:41.544 --> 00:22:45.724 And I think that's why the BBC is what the BBC is. It has to be. 00:22:46.364 --> 00:22:49.724 And it's just basically a space to provide that platform. So it's not a space 00:22:49.724 --> 00:22:52.264 that's going to go to town on either one of them. 00:22:53.724 --> 00:22:58.464 And obviously the option was there for Hannah as well to speak to us and she 00:22:58.464 --> 00:23:00.744 completely understandably has chosen not to. 00:23:00.904 --> 00:23:04.084 So you didn't want to get involved. That's interesting. I don't know that before. 00:23:04.284 --> 00:23:07.964 So you offered Hannah Hampson a sort of write-of-reply interview? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:23:08.144 --> 00:23:10.564 It's just kind of journalistic practice really from our part. 00:23:10.744 --> 00:23:13.884 So yeah, we obviously offered the same with the FA. 00:23:14.004 --> 00:23:17.644 We got in touch with the FA and asked if Serena wanted to make any comments, 00:23:17.644 --> 00:23:21.924 which we knew she wouldn't, or if the FA wanted to offer anything from an FA spokesperson. 00:23:22.264 --> 00:23:26.364 And so, yeah, we did the same with Hannah. Obviously, I went to Chelsea on the 00:23:26.364 --> 00:23:31.044 Saturday knowing that that would be a talking point. So I suppose we got Chelsea's 00:23:31.044 --> 00:23:33.344 point of view via Sonia Bonpastor on the Saturdays. 00:23:33.484 --> 00:23:37.124 Yeah, that's kind of the process with anything like that is always offer. 00:23:37.344 --> 00:23:40.544 And I'm sure other media publications had also approached Hannah. 00:23:40.744 --> 00:23:44.304 And obviously, I suppose it's both offering a platform, but also, 00:23:44.524 --> 00:23:46.604 you know, you want the interview yourself, right? We are. 00:23:46.844 --> 00:23:51.384 Yeah. So you are, just in case people, particularly my American listeners weren't 00:23:51.384 --> 00:23:53.724 following this, Mary Earps was obviously the former England goalkeeper. 00:23:53.844 --> 00:23:57.784 Hannah Hampton replaced her and sort of as that was happening, 00:23:57.924 --> 00:24:01.244 Mary Earps chose to resign from international football, retire from international football. 00:24:01.384 --> 00:24:07.364 And in her book, she writes quite a scathing chapter about Hannah Hampton, 00:24:07.484 --> 00:24:09.324 about some of her behaviour and so on. 00:24:10.412 --> 00:24:15.072 So, obviously, it did cause a media ferrari, particularly because Mary Epps 00:24:15.072 --> 00:24:18.052 is a particularly big character, a big figure in English women's football. 00:24:18.172 --> 00:24:23.552 She was BBC Sports Personality of the Year in 2022. It was a very big deal. 00:24:24.112 --> 00:24:28.212 Yeah. And so what I'm interested in, did you offer Hannah Hampton a sort of 00:24:28.212 --> 00:24:29.772 40-minute sit-down as well? 00:24:30.172 --> 00:24:34.592 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we approached, obviously, Chelsea, 00:24:34.932 --> 00:24:38.372 England, and Hampton's agency and sort of said, 00:24:38.412 --> 00:24:41.772 you know, we'd love to obviously interview Hannah and and 00:24:41.772 --> 00:24:44.932 and you know give her that kind of platform um 00:24:44.932 --> 00:24:48.812 we also went back when when the piece went out uh well before the piece went 00:24:48.812 --> 00:24:53.312 out and also sort of just um you know said these are types of things that we've 00:24:53.312 --> 00:24:58.452 raised in the interview if you want to send over any um just a reply specifically 00:24:58.452 --> 00:25:02.732 to that thing then let us know um so yeah we do that quite often. 00:25:03.804 --> 00:25:07.424 Fascinating. I mean, Hannah Hampton did actually in that whole incident just 00:25:07.424 --> 00:25:10.084 keep a very low profile and just got on with it. 00:25:10.264 --> 00:25:13.904 But very interesting to know that you, I mean, I suppose from a journalist, 00:25:14.024 --> 00:25:16.644 why wouldn't you have wanted to sit down with the other people and the other 00:25:16.644 --> 00:25:18.804 person at the side of the row? Very interesting. 00:25:19.124 --> 00:25:23.484 The whole incident, to me, your interview in particular, but some of the others 00:25:23.484 --> 00:25:26.984 more broadly showed me, revealed to me something else, I think, 00:25:27.044 --> 00:25:29.844 about the growth of the women's game. As I said to you, I thought Mary Epps 00:25:29.844 --> 00:25:32.444 looked quite shell-shocked when she was talking to you. 00:25:33.484 --> 00:25:36.604 And I don't think that's anything to do with you. I don't think you were particular. 00:25:36.804 --> 00:25:42.384 But I thought she was quite taken aback in some ways, or appeared to be quite 00:25:42.384 --> 00:25:48.824 taken aback by some of the reaction to her book and the subsequent interviews. 00:25:49.044 --> 00:25:54.184 And I wonder if that was still the last bits of media naivety within women's 00:25:54.184 --> 00:25:57.764 football. No one around her was going, Mary, this is going to be a big deal 00:25:57.764 --> 00:25:59.524 if you write this and say this in public. 00:25:59.724 --> 00:26:03.924 And I think that was still that last bit of naivety that haven't quite come 00:26:03.924 --> 00:26:05.084 out of the women's game yet. 00:26:05.804 --> 00:26:09.284 Yeah, and she admitted herself in the interview with me, and I think she did 00:26:09.284 --> 00:26:13.744 with others, that it's unusual, I suppose, for footballers full stop to release 00:26:13.744 --> 00:26:15.884 autobiographies when they're still playing. Right. 00:26:16.795 --> 00:26:20.395 It's also quite rare in a women's game. We've obviously seen Leah Williamson 00:26:20.395 --> 00:26:23.635 and Beth Mead release books, but maybe not to the same. 00:26:23.815 --> 00:26:27.495 I think Beth's was probably the nearest one in terms of being as autobiographical. 00:26:27.515 --> 00:26:29.735 Leah Williamson has done children's books as well, hasn't he? Exactly. 00:26:30.095 --> 00:26:34.015 So I think it's not often. And then when you then mix in the fact that Mary 00:26:34.015 --> 00:26:39.715 Earps was at one point, you know, by quite a considerable mile, 00:26:39.955 --> 00:26:45.035 the biggest women's sport, probably icon in England, certainly women's football for a while. 00:26:45.035 --> 00:26:51.415 You know our data for example in terms of any story around Mary Earps. 00:26:52.075 --> 00:26:56.115 You know it was always ridiculously high and you go to any Manchester United 00:26:56.115 --> 00:26:59.915 game when she was there and it was her name that was just absolutely everywhere 00:26:59.915 --> 00:27:03.775 being chanted by the fans so she really did have a huge following she was two-time 00:27:03.775 --> 00:27:06.295 best goalkeeper in the world so you know this 00:27:06.515 --> 00:27:09.435 wasn't small fry so I think that obviously had an impact so 00:27:09.435 --> 00:27:12.575 I think it's fair to say that there was probably some naivety but 00:27:12.575 --> 00:27:15.895 I suppose you know Mary's point and I think 00:27:15.895 --> 00:27:18.595 is is is also fair is that it was a little 00:27:18.595 --> 00:27:21.375 bit of an like an unknown situation you know 00:27:21.375 --> 00:27:28.015 no one that big in women's football probably women's sport had ever done an 00:27:28.015 --> 00:27:33.735 autobiography while they were still you know playing and she was only just out 00:27:33.735 --> 00:27:37.875 in the frame she was still at PSG obviously who were a Champions league club 00:27:37.875 --> 00:27:40.935 so not at the moment we're talking they're not yeah, 00:27:41.495 --> 00:27:46.215 at the time we were a jammies league club so yeah so I do think it was yeah 00:27:46.215 --> 00:27:51.315 it was probably unknown territory mixed in with naivety I mean I certainly didn't. 00:27:52.309 --> 00:27:55.249 Thought it was going to blow when you read it were you quite 00:27:55.249 --> 00:27:58.529 taken aback um did your journalist sort 00:27:58.529 --> 00:28:01.529 of spidey senses start tingling yeah you know what people 00:28:01.529 --> 00:28:04.509 asked me this and I was like no because we sort 00:28:04.509 --> 00:28:07.349 of kind of knew that a little bit in the media you know there's some 00:28:07.349 --> 00:28:10.509 stuff that you sort of know that maybe isn't necessarily 00:28:10.509 --> 00:28:13.749 a story or that you can report because 00:28:13.749 --> 00:28:17.309 you haven't you know that it's a bit hearsay but there's I 00:28:17.309 --> 00:28:20.049 suppose there's a couple of general things that you just sort of 00:28:20.049 --> 00:28:22.869 know a little bit or you assume strongly so I 00:28:22.869 --> 00:28:25.629 wasn't overly surprised by some of the comments or some 00:28:25.629 --> 00:28:28.889 of the opinions maybe that she shared um I 00:28:28.889 --> 00:28:31.649 think actually the stuff that I found more interesting which I knew 00:28:31.649 --> 00:28:35.089 wasn't going to get the attention was actually you know her talking about freezing 00:28:35.089 --> 00:28:38.469 her eggs I thought that was such an interesting chapter of the book because 00:28:38.469 --> 00:28:42.189 that was something she talked some quite personal stuff about well first of 00:28:42.189 --> 00:28:45.629 all she spoke about being in a relationship with a woman then she spoke about 00:28:45.629 --> 00:28:50.629 sort of preparing herself for IVF after her career as she gets older and. 00:28:51.076 --> 00:28:54.716 Yeah. Really personal stuff. Yeah, I thought that stuff was all really interesting 00:28:54.716 --> 00:28:57.116 and maybe stuff that I didn't necessarily knew. 00:28:57.356 --> 00:29:00.136 You know, she's spoken a little bit in interviews before about kind of body 00:29:00.136 --> 00:29:02.496 image and stuff, but never to the same extent either. 00:29:02.696 --> 00:29:07.256 So if anything, it was kind of those bits I was a bit more surprised by. 00:29:07.396 --> 00:29:12.356 But I knew when I read, you know, the stuff around Hampton and to be honest, 00:29:12.456 --> 00:29:16.716 probably more Serena. I was quite shocked about those. Serena Bebe and the England manager. 00:29:17.016 --> 00:29:21.716 Yeah, yeah. So I was maybe a little bit shell-shocked about kind of the extent to which you said. 00:29:22.576 --> 00:29:27.636 Well, it was a great interview. Just looking forward to this year, 2026, 00:29:28.416 --> 00:29:35.736 I noticed during 2025, there was a bit of an uprising of kind of indie digital 00:29:35.736 --> 00:29:41.296 outlets, particularly based on the social media platforms, covering the women's game. 00:29:41.456 --> 00:29:43.716 I'm going to say some rude things so you don't have to. 00:29:43.916 --> 00:29:48.176 I find some of it a bit cringe. Some of it's great, and it's a great way to reach out to people. 00:29:48.636 --> 00:29:52.676 Some of it I find, I've written about this before, how I find the kind of happy, 00:29:52.796 --> 00:29:56.276 clappy culture around the women's game sometimes a bit cringe when actually, 00:29:56.476 --> 00:30:00.676 you know, this is a tough elite level sport and it should be treated as such. 00:30:00.796 --> 00:30:04.596 And I find it a shame, well, we spoke about earlier in this conversation about 00:30:04.596 --> 00:30:07.376 the kind of resources we want mainstream outlets to put into. 00:30:07.576 --> 00:30:11.776 And obviously I love kind of independent media and the growth of that. 00:30:11.916 --> 00:30:15.976 And I think it's fantastic the women's game can sort of develop that ecosystem. 00:30:16.336 --> 00:30:20.896 But I kind of wish sometimes that it wasn't just... It feels to me sometimes 00:30:20.896 --> 00:30:25.316 like people are covering the women's game as a TikTok trend and I... 00:30:26.103 --> 00:30:28.543 I personally find that quite frustrating. 00:30:28.663 --> 00:30:31.043 I don't know what your take on that is. Am I being a bit mean? 00:30:31.503 --> 00:30:34.043 It's one of those, this is going to be a classic BBC reply here, 00:30:34.163 --> 00:30:38.183 but it's one of those where I do think there's probably a space for all of it. 00:30:38.383 --> 00:30:41.443 I think that there's, and this is something that we've learned, 00:30:41.723 --> 00:30:45.563 you know, we created a BBC Women's Football, Instagram and TikTok account. Yeah. 00:30:45.943 --> 00:30:49.343 Think last year. We won't talk about the Sky one. We won't talk about Sky Halo. 00:30:49.723 --> 00:30:52.583 We won't get you in trouble for that. But that is, you know, 00:30:52.663 --> 00:30:55.783 for example, you know, that was an area that we felt we needed. 00:30:56.103 --> 00:30:59.143 And it's absolutely, it's been a huge success. 00:30:59.543 --> 00:31:04.003 The social media team won an award recently for it. So I think that shows that 00:31:04.003 --> 00:31:10.403 there's an audience there that kind of want that TikTok or that 30-second sort 00:31:10.403 --> 00:31:13.303 of cultural clip, I suppose, as opposed to more about the football. 00:31:13.503 --> 00:31:19.063 I think that does exist in men's football. It's just, it's in such a huge space 00:31:19.063 --> 00:31:21.843 that it maybe doesn't stand out as much as it does in women's football. 00:31:22.123 --> 00:31:26.623 And I think we've probably got a situation where it's a bit more 50-50 in the 00:31:26.623 --> 00:31:31.703 women's game where in terms of actual maybe journalism or reporting, there's not that much. 00:31:31.983 --> 00:31:35.643 So, you know, we've got a lot of content creation. So it probably, 00:31:35.883 --> 00:31:40.343 yeah, probably maybe looks like there's more of it in the women's game than 00:31:40.343 --> 00:31:41.703 the men's because simply there is. 00:31:41.823 --> 00:31:45.323 I do think it's important that we have more coverage full stop. 00:31:45.543 --> 00:31:49.083 I think what we're, you know, you mentioned the Sky Sports thing and actually 00:31:49.083 --> 00:31:53.163 I'm happy to reference that because I do think we're at a point now where the 00:31:53.163 --> 00:31:57.383 women's game is trying to be innovative and creative, which it needs to be. 00:31:57.503 --> 00:32:02.323 And I think we probably need to be conscious of, and I say we as a whole community. 00:32:02.463 --> 00:32:03.983 To people around the women's game, yeah. 00:32:04.263 --> 00:32:09.483 Yeah, of maybe being conscious of not shooting those things down so harshly 00:32:09.483 --> 00:32:11.403 because I think the intention is there. Sorry. 00:32:12.627 --> 00:32:16.007 I was pretty rude, sorry. No, no, no, not at all. No, I think, 00:32:16.027 --> 00:32:17.287 you know, you're in touch with your opinion. 00:32:17.487 --> 00:32:21.407 I just wonder whether, like, their intentions might have been good ones. 00:32:21.567 --> 00:32:26.207 And I think... I'm sure their intentions were good, but the output was... 00:32:26.207 --> 00:32:27.967 Yeah, it was completely wrong. 00:32:28.047 --> 00:32:30.287 I think, you know, they've held their hands up and said that it was completely 00:32:30.287 --> 00:32:33.487 wrong. I think they know, in hindsight now, that they made a mistake there. 00:32:33.627 --> 00:32:39.247 But I wonder, moving forward, I think we're going to probably hit more things like that. 00:32:39.427 --> 00:32:42.367 And I'm going to probably get things wrong. BBC are 00:32:42.367 --> 00:32:45.507 going to get things wrong and I think we're in this interesting space now 00:32:45.507 --> 00:32:48.627 where there's going to be a lot of experimenting and whatnot and 00:32:48.627 --> 00:32:52.007 I think I think we should call out what is not working 00:32:52.007 --> 00:32:55.107 I think that's right and that's why you know like you're absolutely fine 00:32:55.107 --> 00:32:58.027 to do that but I think maybe once we've called it out and 00:32:58.027 --> 00:33:01.967 it's it's been rectified we then go okay let's see what what else they can come 00:33:01.967 --> 00:33:05.727 up with and almost welcome the the approach to let's just keep trying until 00:33:05.727 --> 00:33:10.127 we get it right I think my main frustration though with I suppose media outlets 00:33:10.127 --> 00:33:14.127 full stop and you know this isn't just for the indies or the you know the people 00:33:14.127 --> 00:33:15.807 that you're referencing I think this also. 00:33:16.796 --> 00:33:19.716 Goes into into all forms of media but i just 00:33:19.716 --> 00:33:22.536 i think if you're classing yourself as 00:33:22.536 --> 00:33:27.136 media then there's certain um like standards 00:33:27.136 --> 00:33:29.876 and education and laws that you have 00:33:29.876 --> 00:33:33.116 to live by so i think that doesn't always get 00:33:33.116 --> 00:33:36.056 done yeah i see certain things like 00:33:36.056 --> 00:33:38.716 for example transfer news get getting reported where it's off 00:33:38.716 --> 00:33:41.976 one source and it's just rubbish well it 00:33:41.976 --> 00:33:44.716 sometimes it won't sometimes it'll be right but they've just 00:33:44.716 --> 00:33:47.576 got it off one source or they've just you know they've maybe 00:33:47.576 --> 00:33:50.516 just got a little bit lucky with it and and you know people might 00:33:50.516 --> 00:33:53.376 say well why isn't anyone else reporting this 00:33:53.376 --> 00:33:56.276 or giving it credit and it's like well we can't because we've not double sourced 00:33:56.276 --> 00:33:59.116 it or in my case it's triple sourcing so there's 00:33:59.116 --> 00:34:02.176 there's you have to get it for three sources at the bb yeah yeah 00:34:02.176 --> 00:34:05.076 yeah yeah so there's certain journalistic standards i suppose 00:34:05.076 --> 00:34:07.876 you have to live by if if you're classing yourself as media i think 00:34:07.876 --> 00:34:10.736 if you're um you know a fan account 00:34:10.736 --> 00:34:13.596 or you're a blogger and you're casting yourself as that 00:34:13.596 --> 00:34:16.416 I think that's different but if you're if you're saying that 00:34:16.416 --> 00:34:19.496 you're um you know either a media 00:34:19.496 --> 00:34:22.516 outlet or you're going to games and you're getting press passes and 00:34:22.516 --> 00:34:26.676 you're applying for press accreditation then I think you have to you have to 00:34:26.676 --> 00:34:30.096 abide by journalistic standards and journalistic law that's probably my main 00:34:30.096 --> 00:34:33.556 thing I hope that makes sense I'm about to give you a standing ovation I agree 00:34:33.556 --> 00:34:37.276 with you entirely I do try and keep to those standards myself because you're 00:34:37.276 --> 00:34:40.936 absolutely right it really matters and And it matters for the credibility of 00:34:40.936 --> 00:34:42.356 the growth of women's football as well. 00:34:42.816 --> 00:34:46.056 Just to finish off, we're at the beginning of 2026. What are you most looking 00:34:46.056 --> 00:34:48.356 forward to in the women's game this year? Great question. 00:34:48.616 --> 00:34:51.776 I think the obvious one is probably this year is obviously the first year that 00:34:51.776 --> 00:34:53.416 we're going to have this renegation playoff. 00:34:54.356 --> 00:34:56.096 So I'm kind of intrigued to see... 00:34:56.775 --> 00:34:59.415 How that works and who's going to be in it but I also think one 00:34:59.415 --> 00:35:02.675 of the teams is going to be in it yeah um but 00:35:02.675 --> 00:35:05.315 I also think it's it's a 00:35:05.315 --> 00:35:10.095 really interesting time for the WSL too and that's a league which doesn't come 00:35:10.095 --> 00:35:14.455 under my job remit I try and cover it if I can this is the second tier of women's 00:35:14.455 --> 00:35:17.715 football in England yeah um and I think it's a really interesting time just 00:35:17.715 --> 00:35:22.995 to see how much those teams sort of invest between now and the end of 2026 given that there are going 00:35:23.075 --> 00:35:26.115 to be more promotion spots up for grabs um so 00:35:26.115 --> 00:35:28.795 that for me is probably the thing i'm most looking forward to because i 00:35:28.795 --> 00:35:31.555 don't really get to look into that too 00:35:31.555 --> 00:35:34.255 often so if i've got my fan hat on that's what 00:35:34.255 --> 00:35:36.975 i'm kind of excited by really interesting emma it's 00:35:36.975 --> 00:35:39.835 been such a pleasure where where can people 00:35:39.835 --> 00:35:42.735 keep up with you obviously on bbc sport website where 00:35:42.735 --> 00:35:45.595 else are you can you be found yeah always check 00:35:45.595 --> 00:35:48.515 out the women's football weekly podcast um quite often 00:35:48.515 --> 00:35:51.195 i'll do interviews in full length that will go on there so check out 00:35:51.195 --> 00:35:54.095 that i'm on twitter and blue sky but i 00:35:54.095 --> 00:35:57.195 don't really use my blue sky sorry and i try and do tiktoks at 00:35:57.195 --> 00:36:00.815 least once every six months so there you go i'm at 00:36:00.815 --> 00:36:04.495 charlotte a henry across most of social media obviously you can head over to 00:36:04.495 --> 00:36:11.275 the edition.net and read blog posts newsletters and podcasts over there also 00:36:11.275 --> 00:36:16.135 you can buy my book my latest book streaming wars is out now i hope people enjoy 00:36:16.135 --> 00:36:20.635 that there's a whole bit about women's football in there and coverage of women's football. 00:36:20.775 --> 00:36:22.895 So I hope you get that as well. 00:36:23.295 --> 00:36:26.295 Would have been a perfect Christmas present, but what can you do? 00:36:26.455 --> 00:36:28.055 Treat yourself to it as a New Year's resolution. 00:36:28.315 --> 00:36:31.315 Emma, thank you once again for joining me and I'll see you all next week.