WEBVTT 00:00:13.263 --> 00:00:19.263 Hello, and welcome to TV Plus Talk, the final TV Plus Talk of 2025. 00:00:20.003 --> 00:00:23.283 I'm Charlotte Henry, and he is Chuck Joyner. Hey, Chuck. 00:00:24.183 --> 00:00:26.623 Hey, Chuck. You had me... Or, hey, Chuck. Hey, Charlotte. 00:00:27.663 --> 00:00:31.983 Oh, yeah. See, you had me completely rattled. Because when you said the final 00:00:31.983 --> 00:00:34.023 TV Plus Talk, I thought, what? 00:00:34.783 --> 00:00:40.303 I didn't miss a memo? Oh, no, you don't get rid of me that easily. Okay, good. Good. 00:00:41.223 --> 00:00:45.543 It's good to see you. but we it's clear that we both need a christmas break 00:00:45.543 --> 00:00:50.103 so this will be the final show of this year and this year only we will be back 00:00:50.103 --> 00:00:53.203 in your podcast feeds next year but. 00:00:54.295 --> 00:00:58.075 It's been an interesting year for Apple TV Plus, now called Apple TV. 00:00:58.335 --> 00:00:59.915 We'll come to all that in a minute. 00:01:00.735 --> 00:01:04.215 But I just wanted to point out a couple of things that are launching towards 00:01:04.215 --> 00:01:08.255 the end of this year and towards the start of next year. 00:01:08.515 --> 00:01:15.155 So F1, the movie, the huge hit, Brad Pitt hit, is going to be on Apple TV from 00:01:15.155 --> 00:01:17.275 the Friday, the 12th of December. 00:01:17.495 --> 00:01:22.655 So by the time you're watching this, it will be out on Apple TV, which is really cool. 00:01:23.195 --> 00:01:27.155 People have been really looking forward to this coming on to the service. So that will be there. 00:01:27.555 --> 00:01:31.595 And then on the 14th of January, so just over a month later, 00:01:32.275 --> 00:01:35.515 there'll be the new season of Hijack, which stars Idris Elba. 00:01:36.115 --> 00:01:39.595 And what else do you need me to tell you about that? Idris Elba's in it. 00:01:39.735 --> 00:01:43.335 We're all good. So that's the 14th of Jan. 00:01:44.235 --> 00:01:49.935 Now, you pointed out an interesting story to me, which is an Apple TV hit series. 00:01:49.935 --> 00:01:54.655 They've been named, according to 9to5Mac, amongst the best, 10 best shows of 00:01:54.655 --> 00:01:57.295 the year, which I'm sure they'll be very pleased about. 00:01:58.615 --> 00:02:03.215 Yeah, this one really struck me because we've talked so much about here over 00:02:03.215 --> 00:02:04.915 this year and I think over the life of the show. 00:02:05.215 --> 00:02:07.175 That's exactly what I thought about when you sent me this story. 00:02:07.395 --> 00:02:10.015 Yeah, the quality, the quality of things. 00:02:10.015 --> 00:02:16.895 And I did not go to the trouble, I admit, of looking up, but I don't know that 00:02:16.895 --> 00:02:21.915 anybody else, as far as network or streamer or studio or whatever, 00:02:22.495 --> 00:02:25.475 delivered the same percentage of those high-quality shows. 00:02:25.475 --> 00:02:31.995 Now, I understand that this is a subjective list, but I felt validated a little 00:02:31.995 --> 00:02:36.575 bit, but I also feel like it validates Apple's approach to the content, 00:02:36.655 --> 00:02:40.955 that they're not just trying to just throw everything at the wall and see what 00:02:40.955 --> 00:02:47.335 sticks, that they are really targeting things and they are hitting the mark. 00:02:48.525 --> 00:02:55.005 Yeah, I mean, just to put this in context, it's not some, it is obviously subjective 00:02:55.005 --> 00:02:57.025 by definition, but it's not just a random list. 00:02:57.105 --> 00:03:01.685 This is the list by the American Film Institute, who one would think knows vaguely 00:03:01.685 --> 00:03:02.785 what they're talking about. 00:03:03.305 --> 00:03:07.805 The programmes of the year are Adolescence and or Death by Lightning, 00:03:07.965 --> 00:03:12.385 The Diplomat, The Lowdown, The Pit, Pluribus, Severance, The Studio and Task. 00:03:13.045 --> 00:03:16.925 So there is a number of those shows that are Apple TV shows. 00:03:17.465 --> 00:03:21.925 Obviously, Pluribus, Severance and The Studio have been huge hits for Apple 00:03:21.925 --> 00:03:26.225 TV and they've therefore been recognised by the AFI. 00:03:27.145 --> 00:03:31.125 I think it is an endorsement of the strategy and some of the issues we've been 00:03:31.125 --> 00:03:35.085 talking about. And I keep going back to this when we see lists like this, Chuck. 00:03:35.485 --> 00:03:40.745 Do you remember back in 2019 where people were kind of maybe dismissive, 00:03:41.505 --> 00:03:45.385 maybe mocking about that Apple TV would be a success? 00:03:45.845 --> 00:03:51.745 How many times we mentioned how sceptical people were about the originals only approach? 00:03:52.945 --> 00:03:57.445 Now, I'm always reticent to say these things because I hate if you and I sound 00:03:57.445 --> 00:03:59.505 like the PRs for Apple TV. 00:03:59.505 --> 00:04:06.265 But there keeps being evidence that the approach Apple has taken has worked, 00:04:06.285 --> 00:04:10.745 at least in terms of calibre and credibility of content. 00:04:10.985 --> 00:04:14.565 Now, we know for a fact we never get numbers from Apple because it's Apple. 00:04:14.865 --> 00:04:18.865 But we know for a fact that it doesn't have anywhere near the numbers of Netflix 00:04:18.865 --> 00:04:20.265 or Disney Plus. We know that. 00:04:21.572 --> 00:04:24.992 And yet, these shows do break through. 00:04:27.052 --> 00:04:30.792 And I would like to think that because they break through, and they break through 00:04:30.792 --> 00:04:32.292 in such a public fashion, 00:04:33.492 --> 00:04:41.232 witness severance, witness the recent, I guess, positive kind of attention that 00:04:41.232 --> 00:04:42.392 Pluribus has been getting, 00:04:42.572 --> 00:04:49.152 that people then start to take a look at this because these are only available on Apple TV. 00:04:49.432 --> 00:04:51.552 I almost said plus. on Apple TV. 00:04:52.192 --> 00:04:57.052 And, you know, so that's going to pull people to them if they're curious enough 00:04:57.052 --> 00:04:59.552 or if there's enough furor over them. 00:04:59.792 --> 00:05:04.732 And to your point, back in 2019, you know, yes, I absolutely remember this. 00:05:04.872 --> 00:05:10.472 And I think we've said this from the whole way along, that Apple plays a longer 00:05:10.472 --> 00:05:15.412 game than a lot of these studios and the studio executives, where they're just 00:05:15.412 --> 00:05:16.812 looking for quarterly results. 00:05:17.292 --> 00:05:22.712 Apple is happy to measure its results in years, and I feel like this bears it out. 00:05:22.872 --> 00:05:29.492 Now, it's easy for us to say this year because of these lists and what we're seeing. 00:05:29.772 --> 00:05:33.732 I hope that it'll be this way next year and on and on. 00:05:34.112 --> 00:05:39.212 But I don't see any signs of Apple changing its strategy or the quality that it delivers. 00:05:40.852 --> 00:05:42.892 I agree with you on the latter point. 00:05:43.754 --> 00:05:47.354 I hope. I mean, I hope you're proven right. And I think that's going to at least 00:05:47.354 --> 00:05:50.574 be the attempt. Obviously, they want to put good quality stuff out. 00:05:52.474 --> 00:05:55.534 We've heard rumblings, haven't we? We've covered it on this show, 00:05:55.674 --> 00:05:58.594 of some kind of catalogue pickup. 00:05:58.934 --> 00:06:00.834 We've not really seen it seep through 00:06:00.834 --> 00:06:04.454 yet, but there keeps being rumblings about it. So we'll have to see. 00:06:04.634 --> 00:06:10.654 I wonder if awards and recognition like this actually puts Apple off making that strategic change. 00:06:11.454 --> 00:06:14.894 That's definitely going to be one of the stories you and I will have to watch in 2026. 00:06:16.274 --> 00:06:20.634 But yeah, I think in general part, it shows the execs. 00:06:21.014 --> 00:06:24.174 I mean, look, these are not stupid people, right? They know what they're doing, 00:06:24.254 --> 00:06:26.554 the guys at the top of Apple TV. 00:06:28.254 --> 00:06:32.374 And certainly in terms of quality, it is bearing out. I would be... 00:06:33.906 --> 00:06:37.766 I'm not going to do our usual rant about marketing. You can listen back to almost 00:06:37.766 --> 00:06:40.026 any show of this episode and you'll get what we think about it. 00:06:40.386 --> 00:06:44.546 I wonder, though, if there is a point where they're going to be able to convert 00:06:44.546 --> 00:06:50.926 people into paying subscribers. We know a lot of people come into Apple TV free 00:06:50.926 --> 00:06:54.826 through buying a new iPhone, a new Mac, whatever, and that's great. 00:06:55.846 --> 00:06:59.866 I'm starting to see, I don't know if you see this in your side of the Atlantic, 00:06:59.866 --> 00:07:03.826 but I'm starting to see more adverts for Apple TV here in the UK. 00:07:03.906 --> 00:07:06.966 Really advertising the show so that's interesting 00:07:06.966 --> 00:07:10.006 and i wonder at some point you know six seven 00:07:10.006 --> 00:07:14.726 years into this um not experiment 00:07:14.726 --> 00:07:17.606 per se but product launch of 00:07:17.606 --> 00:07:20.406 this product if we're going to really start 00:07:20.406 --> 00:07:23.726 seeing the numbers ramp up and it really challenged the big players i 00:07:23.726 --> 00:07:26.866 doubt it and i don't think that was ever the intention i don't 00:07:26.866 --> 00:07:30.346 think apple tv really wanted to be netflix i 00:07:30.346 --> 00:07:33.546 think it maybe wanted to be hbo um and 00:07:33.546 --> 00:07:38.706 i've spent my whole week covering warner brothers discovery and hbo and netflix 00:07:38.706 --> 00:07:44.606 and all of that so it will um i think that's its attempt and it's with every 00:07:44.606 --> 00:07:49.646 new season of a show and every new series that comes out and is warmly received 00:07:49.646 --> 00:07:52.066 as high quality that that is bearing out. 00:07:53.553 --> 00:07:56.413 It's funny you bring up hbo because i was 00:07:56.413 --> 00:07:59.673 in a discussion uh recently about how 00:07:59.673 --> 00:08:02.733 hbo is no longer the hbo of 00:08:02.733 --> 00:08:06.373 old oh is that right and yeah 00:08:06.373 --> 00:08:10.113 and that people were almost looking what do you mean by that explain to me as 00:08:10.113 --> 00:08:14.413 a brit what you mean by that well the quality of the content the the idea that 00:08:14.413 --> 00:08:22.313 i really as as a consumer a video i have i almost have to subscribe to hbo because 00:08:22.313 --> 00:08:24.033 it has the content I want to see. 00:08:24.433 --> 00:08:27.753 And that's kind of slipped away as they've diversified. 00:08:27.973 --> 00:08:38.413 And I'm kind of filtering that through your comment about them trying to do 00:08:38.413 --> 00:08:40.693 things like this to become HBO. 00:08:41.213 --> 00:08:48.513 And so were they executing this strategy while HBO was executing another strategy? 00:08:48.713 --> 00:08:55.673 I don't know. I don't know if – I think that the comparison is almost inevitable at this stage. 00:08:56.153 --> 00:09:00.033 But one other thing that you said that triggered something, and that's been 00:09:00.033 --> 00:09:05.393 all – and I don't want to take us down off the path, but all the sports – I 00:09:05.393 --> 00:09:06.753 break the habit of this show. 00:09:07.173 --> 00:09:11.633 Well, yeah. But, you know, all the sports discussions we've had and the fact 00:09:11.633 --> 00:09:15.093 that Apple has been bidding for some sports things and not gotten them. 00:09:15.653 --> 00:09:19.513 And I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing because Apple could have 00:09:19.513 --> 00:09:23.513 thrown – Apple has the money to throw an ungodly amount of money at these things. 00:09:23.753 --> 00:09:29.753 And they have chosen not to. They've chosen to really restrain themselves and say, we have a budget. 00:09:29.773 --> 00:09:33.013 If we can get it for this, we will. If not, we don't. 00:09:33.693 --> 00:09:37.213 And in a lot of cases right now, they don't, though they haven't. 00:09:38.053 --> 00:09:43.853 How will that play out? Will those franchises be worth what some of the winners 00:09:43.853 --> 00:09:48.113 are and will be paying for them? I don't know. 00:09:48.293 --> 00:09:50.273 But still, it feels... 00:09:51.686 --> 00:09:57.506 It kind of feels true to Apple's strategy for me. It's such an interesting point. 00:09:57.986 --> 00:10:02.726 I don't entirely agree with you because I think Apple would have liked to have 00:10:02.726 --> 00:10:04.906 more sports, and I think it would benefit from it. 00:10:05.686 --> 00:10:09.226 We'll have to watch what happens with the Formula One rights. 00:10:09.366 --> 00:10:15.826 We'll have to see what happens now that MLS is going to be more accessible. 00:10:16.346 --> 00:10:21.286 So we'll have to see that in the next year. but I think, and they've given up 00:10:21.286 --> 00:10:26.026 the baseballs we've discussed, but I think it would like a little bit more of the sports, right? 00:10:26.226 --> 00:10:31.026 But it's really hard to get. And if you want the NBA or the NFL, it's really expensive. 00:10:31.146 --> 00:10:34.886 So there is a balancing act, which you rightly point out. 00:10:36.046 --> 00:10:44.706 Well. And at some point, one last point, do they potentially dilute what they're trying to do? 00:10:44.906 --> 00:10:50.486 And back to the HBO discussion, My personal recollection is that there was very 00:10:50.486 --> 00:10:55.346 little, if any, sports on HBO at the peak of its power. 00:10:55.826 --> 00:11:00.666 And so now it's a different world today, and I'm with you. I think Apple would 00:11:00.666 --> 00:11:02.066 have liked to have had some of those sports. 00:11:02.246 --> 00:11:06.826 I think eventually they're going to need to, but maybe not right now for the 00:11:06.826 --> 00:11:08.086 price that's being demanded. 00:11:08.626 --> 00:11:12.426 And all the consolidations, you just mentioned the Warner Brothers situation 00:11:12.426 --> 00:11:17.066 this week. All the consolidations that are happening out there might be the 00:11:17.066 --> 00:11:22.026 time to sit on the sidelines and not have the burden of some of those huge contracts. 00:11:24.179 --> 00:11:29.279 And a separate but connected point, and I apologize now for taking us off on 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:34.279 a tangent, is in the US, as you'll know, there is a deal, an agreement between 00:11:34.279 --> 00:11:36.699 Peacock and Apple TV, isn't there? 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:40.059 You can get there's a bundle you can access to have both of those services. 00:11:40.599 --> 00:11:45.979 And Peacock has a lot of sport, including basically every Premier League football match. 00:11:45.979 --> 00:11:49.319 So it's quite a nice way really to 00:11:49.319 --> 00:11:52.819 be able for apple to sell apple tv and not 00:11:52.819 --> 00:11:55.459 have to pay for the sports rides this is 00:11:55.459 --> 00:12:00.299 a pretty nice one deal right okay can i i'll just make one more point and this 00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:05.359 is way off okay but does that smell a little bit like what appears to what appears 00:12:05.359 --> 00:12:10.299 to be maybe one of apple's ai strategies where they're not necessarily throwing 00:12:10.299 --> 00:12:14.559 these millions and billions of dollars at developing their own product, 00:12:14.779 --> 00:12:19.179 but they're cutting deals with the people that are throwing the millions and billions of dollars. 00:12:19.419 --> 00:12:24.079 And that leaves them a little more flexible to cut a deal for who is the best 00:12:24.079 --> 00:12:28.399 at any given moment or, you know, keep their options open there. 00:12:29.379 --> 00:12:31.799 There feels like a similarity there, at least to me. 00:12:33.319 --> 00:12:38.299 I know exactly what you're saying. And what feels very Apple also is doing these 00:12:38.299 --> 00:12:42.839 deals initially and then making its own thing, Let's think of the M series chips. 00:12:43.890 --> 00:12:46.830 Great point. Yeah, we can just run with this. 00:12:47.470 --> 00:12:51.450 This may not be the last show of 2025, folks. No, it is. 00:12:51.570 --> 00:12:55.530 And because of that, we are going to wrap up and do a bit of a roundup of our 00:12:55.530 --> 00:12:58.310 favorite things on Apple TV this year. 00:12:59.250 --> 00:13:03.370 I'm going to abuse the mic and go first. So for me, my favorite thing, 00:13:03.510 --> 00:13:07.550 very predictably, was the final season of Mythic Quest. 00:13:08.090 --> 00:13:11.010 We didn't know it was going to be the final season until it, 00:13:11.170 --> 00:13:12.410 you know, partway through. 00:13:13.270 --> 00:13:18.050 But it was, I thought they wrapped it up pretty neatly. 00:13:18.370 --> 00:13:23.590 I thought the episodes were still really good. There was lots of fun, lots of emotion. 00:13:24.530 --> 00:13:27.990 I'm actually kind of, well, I'm sad it's finishing because I really enjoy the 00:13:27.990 --> 00:13:31.410 show. I'm pleased it's finishing before it got bad. 00:13:32.470 --> 00:13:35.170 It was one of those comedies that managed to just 00:13:35.170 --> 00:13:39.270 about resist taking itself too seriously so for 00:13:39.270 --> 00:13:42.850 me it was a huge huge hit this 00:13:42.850 --> 00:13:46.190 year that's my first one what about you what was one of your highlights of the 00:13:46.190 --> 00:13:55.670 year uh boy it was really tough um but i think one of my highlights was uh slow 00:13:55.670 --> 00:14:01.850 horses um that you might say that it just keeps getting better, 00:14:02.070 --> 00:14:06.890 or if maybe not better, at least as good as any other previous season. 00:14:07.110 --> 00:14:11.150 You know, I mean, I'd almost have to sit down and take a week and watch everything 00:14:11.150 --> 00:14:14.170 back to back to back to back and then say, which is my favorite season? 00:14:14.510 --> 00:14:20.690 But I love the character development. I love the, and we're going to try judiciously 00:14:20.690 --> 00:14:25.010 to avoid spoilers here, folks, but I love the little bits and pieces we get 00:14:25.010 --> 00:14:28.590 about Jackson Lamb and, you know, his past. 00:14:29.350 --> 00:14:35.170 I love some of the subtlety of the show where something that didn't appear to 00:14:35.170 --> 00:14:39.550 be quite as important at the moment you're watching, it becomes very important later. 00:14:40.250 --> 00:14:44.090 I just think this is some of the best TV that's out there right now. 00:14:45.832 --> 00:14:50.592 Yeah, Apple have done a phenomenal job of securing this, securing the cast it's got. 00:14:50.692 --> 00:14:54.512 I can't really think of one bad performance amongst the cast. 00:14:54.692 --> 00:14:55.752 I think they're excellent. 00:14:56.172 --> 00:15:00.752 Obviously, Gary Oldman is a superstar, but the supporting cast is also really excellent. 00:15:03.332 --> 00:15:09.592 I think I've read one, maybe two of the books, but have you ever read any of 00:15:09.592 --> 00:15:11.952 the books? I have not. They're enjoyable. 00:15:13.152 --> 00:15:19.292 I feel like after the series wraps, whenever it does eventually wrap, I might read a book. 00:15:19.792 --> 00:15:23.012 But I feel like the characters to me, 00:15:23.132 --> 00:15:27.732 the actors that are portraying the characters are so much the characters that 00:15:27.732 --> 00:15:35.612 I don't want to take a chance of not corrupting, but muddying that at all. 00:15:35.752 --> 00:15:36.792 I just, I want those characters to be those characters. Yeah, 00:15:36.812 --> 00:15:40.192 when you're reading the book, you'll just be able to picture them. Yeah. 00:15:41.292 --> 00:15:47.332 Yes. But yeah, Slow Horses has been a knockout hit for Apple TV. 00:15:47.832 --> 00:15:51.552 No doubt about it. Every season they put out, people love. 00:15:52.292 --> 00:15:55.112 There isn't, you know, what else can we say? It's a huge, huge hit. 00:15:55.572 --> 00:15:59.312 The other show I want to bring up is one you recommended to me and we both really 00:15:59.312 --> 00:16:01.332 enjoyed, which was Prime Target. 00:16:03.492 --> 00:16:07.472 Now, it maybe got a little bit silly at the end. Yeah. 00:16:08.115 --> 00:16:12.975 Maybe. Do I care? Not particularly. Really enjoyed it. 00:16:15.035 --> 00:16:19.375 You know, I guess I'm one of those that if I buy into it, I buy into it. 00:16:19.455 --> 00:16:22.435 You know, if I'm watching it, then I don't. 00:16:22.755 --> 00:16:27.635 And it was such a great, from the first episode, it really grabbed you. 00:16:28.575 --> 00:16:34.195 And I'd like to top to bottom. And so, you know, silly, I'd have to go back 00:16:34.195 --> 00:16:36.635 and really think about it in the context of that comment. 00:16:36.635 --> 00:16:42.915 But I didn't feel – it was one of those rare shows that they ended it so that 00:16:42.915 --> 00:16:48.555 it could come back, but it didn't have to – it didn't leave you feeling dissatisfied. 00:16:48.955 --> 00:16:52.935 And that's not something that seems to happen very often anymore. 00:16:53.275 --> 00:16:58.495 To your point about Mythic Quest, I thought they wrapped it up nicely for what they did. 00:16:58.815 --> 00:17:02.755 There were still a few threads I would love to have seen tied up just a little bit tighter. 00:17:03.995 --> 00:17:06.815 I totally agree with you. yeah that did 00:17:06.815 --> 00:17:10.195 not detract from the way they handled it no but 00:17:10.195 --> 00:17:12.975 you're totally right and obviously they did the fifth 00:17:12.975 --> 00:17:16.755 season was commissioned and then cancelled so that's 00:17:16.755 --> 00:17:19.735 exactly so you're completely arguably right 00:17:19.735 --> 00:17:26.955 about that um but back to prime target i really enjoyed it your point about 00:17:26.955 --> 00:17:31.215 buying into it early is totally correct you said oh charlotte watch this i'm 00:17:31.215 --> 00:17:36.895 enjoying it i think you will by certainly by the end of episode one if not earlier, 00:17:37.895 --> 00:17:43.375 and definitely by the episode two when i think i texted you going okay i'm in. 00:17:44.818 --> 00:17:49.498 I was fully in. Like the performances were great from the lead characters. 00:17:50.238 --> 00:17:55.738 There was complicated storylines and relationships and stories of sexuality. 00:17:55.738 --> 00:18:04.118 And I think, you know, all sorts of other different issues between the relationships between people. 00:18:05.358 --> 00:18:12.218 I really enjoyed it. And the slight bits of silliness, I was prepared to more 00:18:12.218 --> 00:18:14.258 than overlook because I was so bought into it. 00:18:14.258 --> 00:18:18.638 And I think it's really and I actually hope they do bring have a second season. 00:18:20.078 --> 00:18:23.558 And I really like it again not spoilers 00:18:23.558 --> 00:18:26.738 but I hope they do do a second season because I liked 00:18:26.738 --> 00:18:33.038 it was very obviously right a slight dig about our AI obsessed world and the 00:18:33.038 --> 00:18:39.778 potential dangers thereof and so I kind of hope that kind of that continues 00:18:39.778 --> 00:18:43.698 I feel bad about having to do this kind of disclaimer, 00:18:43.918 --> 00:18:47.118 but I want to warn people or advise people. 00:18:47.238 --> 00:18:53.038 If you go to Apple TV Plus and you read the description, don't be put off by the description. 00:18:53.418 --> 00:19:00.018 Because while the description is accurate, it is inadequate for just how good a show this is. 00:19:00.458 --> 00:19:05.638 Because frankly, I honestly don't even recall why I started watching it. 00:19:05.738 --> 00:19:09.358 Because it's like, okay, I guess it's Apple TV, 00:19:09.618 --> 00:19:12.758 so I'll take a look at it um but beyond that it 00:19:12.758 --> 00:19:15.738 the write-up did not motivate me 00:19:15.738 --> 00:19:18.598 but once i watched the first episode or 00:19:18.598 --> 00:19:23.138 two and i don't even think i got the number two i was in no question about it 00:19:23.138 --> 00:19:28.898 so if you trust us take a little time over the holidays take a shot at episode 00:19:28.898 --> 00:19:33.698 one and i think you're going to run through it like we did yeah it's really 00:19:33.698 --> 00:19:36.838 good and again a set of excellent performances yes. 00:19:39.509 --> 00:19:44.269 I guess, again, we'll avoid spoilers, so don't turn off, don't freak out. 00:19:44.629 --> 00:19:49.549 I guess we have to do a bit on The Morning Show, which is obviously one of the 00:19:49.549 --> 00:19:57.569 big totem pole series that holds, you know, on which Apple TV is built. 00:19:59.629 --> 00:20:02.789 We're now at the end of season four, amazingly. 00:20:04.489 --> 00:20:08.249 I think this is much cleverer than some of the others this season. 00:20:08.729 --> 00:20:15.429 I love the personal dynamics between everyone. I love some of the issues it highlights. 00:20:15.629 --> 00:20:18.389 I think it's got a bit less preachy. 00:20:19.269 --> 00:20:23.109 I've given my views on Jennifer Anderson's performance before, and I won't repeat them. 00:20:24.049 --> 00:20:27.629 But I think some of the other performances really are excellent. 00:20:29.489 --> 00:20:33.269 It's got Jon Hamm in it. I don't know what else people want. 00:20:35.029 --> 00:20:41.649 Okay, so I've got to put you on the spot. Have you finished this season yet? 00:20:42.109 --> 00:20:44.369 I've got a couple more episodes to go. 00:20:44.949 --> 00:20:49.409 Okay. I have finished it, and so, again, I want to be really careful here. 00:20:50.649 --> 00:20:55.429 But I agree with everything you just said. I feel like the storylines, 00:20:55.609 --> 00:21:01.089 it feels like the farther we've gotten into the season, the storylines and the 00:21:01.089 --> 00:21:03.949 complications have gotten more –, 00:21:04.551 --> 00:21:10.671 Dense is the only thing I can think of. But it all starts to make sense as well, as it all plays out. 00:21:11.171 --> 00:21:14.631 Yeah, but when I tell you that there's a payoff at the end, believe me, 00:21:14.691 --> 00:21:18.271 there's a payoff at the end. And I can't go farther than that. 00:21:18.711 --> 00:21:25.751 But it is – season three I enjoyed, but I questioned the time I had invested in it. 00:21:26.411 --> 00:21:29.751 Yep. By the end of season four, I did not question it at all. 00:21:31.211 --> 00:21:37.171 It absolutely ended in spectacular fashion. And I really want to see what they 00:21:37.171 --> 00:21:39.731 do next because I feel like it's going to be hard to top. 00:21:40.751 --> 00:21:48.431 Yeah, I think season four is close to season one or as good as season one, which I really enjoyed. 00:21:49.091 --> 00:21:53.331 Season two, as we know, I loathed. Don't need to go back to that. 00:21:53.931 --> 00:21:57.971 Season three redeemed itself a bit. Season four is right up there with the first 00:21:57.971 --> 00:21:58.931 season that I bought into. 00:21:59.811 --> 00:22:04.651 Yeah, yeah. And I think the run across, I mean, like any series, 00:22:04.871 --> 00:22:11.531 it has some high points and some low points, but overall I'm not unhappy with 00:22:11.531 --> 00:22:14.271 the fact that I have invested that much time. 00:22:14.411 --> 00:22:22.251 I feel like the characters you start to care about, and that's the mark of a really good series. 00:22:23.851 --> 00:22:28.551 Can we talk about Greta Lee's performance? because she, I think, 00:22:28.931 --> 00:22:33.691 Estella Bach is the star of this season. 00:22:33.971 --> 00:22:36.931 I think she's phenomenal. I think her outfits are phenomenal. 00:22:37.841 --> 00:22:41.861 Um i just think she's wonderful in action i think she's incredible and i think 00:22:41.861 --> 00:22:47.641 she really as they built her character over the seasons i think she's grown and grown and grown, 00:22:48.501 --> 00:22:55.921 and i think her performances are excellent um i you know i agree i can't comment 00:22:55.921 --> 00:22:59.381 on the outfits um but the um i don't 00:22:59.381 --> 00:23:02.601 feel like there's a weak link in the characters in the in the in the cast, 00:23:03.501 --> 00:23:08.061 um i really i really don't if if i i'd have to really sit down and think about 00:23:08.061 --> 00:23:13.461 every single character but i don't believe there's nobody that i've said i just wish they'd go away, 00:23:14.601 --> 00:23:19.321 so i don't wish jennifer aniston would go away i just stop wish you stop deep 00:23:19.321 --> 00:23:26.921 breathing and saying oh my god um okay give it to the end give it to the end 00:23:26.921 --> 00:23:29.041 sure no i understand and i love, 00:23:30.201 --> 00:23:33.001 how they bring the bro-y podcaster into it. 00:23:33.361 --> 00:23:38.101 I think they do a really good job, actually, throughout the season of reflecting 00:23:38.101 --> 00:23:41.321 the modern media environment. I do think they did that really well. 00:23:43.361 --> 00:23:47.601 Of course, you're a student of that. And that's a really interesting point. 00:23:48.121 --> 00:23:51.181 I haven't been watching it through that lens. 00:23:51.841 --> 00:23:55.541 So now I have to go back and think about that. That's a Very interesting point. 00:23:56.501 --> 00:24:00.701 So in terms of the sort of media news consolidation, 00:24:02.601 --> 00:24:09.221 the activist versus news thing, the podcast, the digital offshoots thing, 00:24:09.441 --> 00:24:12.961 and also, and I mentioned this the first time we discussed episode one, 00:24:13.741 --> 00:24:16.021 because some episodes, right, it feels a bit chaotic. 00:24:16.201 --> 00:24:19.741 It's like, why are there so many storylines going on in one episode? 00:24:20.381 --> 00:24:24.341 But that is kind of what newsrooms can feel like and news organizations can 00:24:24.341 --> 00:24:26.981 feel like. So that's kind of okay. 00:24:28.021 --> 00:24:34.021 So I think all of that, forget everything else, they do really well. 00:24:36.271 --> 00:24:40.211 Yeah. It's one that I would tell anyone to, 00:24:40.791 --> 00:24:44.531 even if you haven't been watching it up to this point, invest the time, 00:24:44.711 --> 00:24:52.171 even if you decide that one of the interim seasons is not up to the standard you would like. 00:24:52.171 --> 00:24:58.211 But Charlotte and I kind of marginally agree on the one, excuse me, 00:24:58.311 --> 00:25:02.811 the one season that, you know, just seemed to jump the shark a little bit. 00:25:03.171 --> 00:25:06.011 It just was a little out of bounds. 00:25:06.071 --> 00:25:11.051 Season five. Because it didn't, yeah, it didn't feel like the characters were 00:25:11.051 --> 00:25:13.071 doing things that people would really do. 00:25:13.551 --> 00:25:18.971 On the other hand, depending on which we're talking about, yeah, 00:25:19.111 --> 00:25:22.051 we've seen people do some really stupid, impulsive things. 00:25:23.471 --> 00:25:26.551 So sure sure um i 00:25:26.551 --> 00:25:30.111 think jump the shark is the right phrase and also didn't 00:25:30.111 --> 00:25:33.111 give people the escapism like we will just live through 00:25:33.111 --> 00:25:36.651 covid i've said this every time we discuss season two we don't 00:25:36.651 --> 00:25:40.291 need the melodramatic uh depiction 00:25:40.291 --> 00:25:43.171 of it as well but they've really built it 00:25:43.171 --> 00:25:46.131 up again and you're quite right about how 00:25:46.131 --> 00:25:52.011 good season four is and i've i i've really sort of i've been pleased actually 00:25:52.011 --> 00:25:56.111 that they brought the show back because I was worried that it was a show I started 00:25:56.111 --> 00:26:02.031 off really liking and I was worried it was going to drop off and they've they've 00:26:02.031 --> 00:26:03.971 redeemed it and I'm really pleased about that. 00:26:07.293 --> 00:26:09.533 I've lost track. Are we on second or third picks? 00:26:11.653 --> 00:26:14.553 You can pick whatever you want, Chuck, if you've got any more for me. 00:26:17.073 --> 00:26:21.633 Well, there are two that I have left on my list, but I'm going to say, 00:26:21.813 --> 00:26:25.173 again, the most recent season of Foundation. 00:26:26.913 --> 00:26:32.073 I keep getting confused. I've loved this show. I've loved the novels. 00:26:33.393 --> 00:26:40.013 To say that the show is loosely based on the novels may be a little bit, 00:26:41.263 --> 00:26:48.323 forgiving. But that said, I've been a little concerned about some of the length of time. 00:26:48.543 --> 00:26:51.923 I've been afraid people would lose the threads. I was afraid I'd lose the threads 00:26:51.923 --> 00:26:53.703 and have to go back and rewatch. 00:26:53.883 --> 00:26:57.943 And they've done a really great job of keeping it going, keeping it interesting. 00:26:59.183 --> 00:27:04.263 And I'm looking forward to yet the next season already. Very good. 00:27:05.563 --> 00:27:09.203 This is a bit naughty and it doesn't count, but I'm doing it anyway, 00:27:11.083 --> 00:27:17.043 because I really am looking forward to, you know, in the next few days after 00:27:17.043 --> 00:27:21.463 we record this show, I might well have done it by the time people are listening, of watching F1. 00:27:23.003 --> 00:27:28.343 There's been so much hype about this. I'm really, really looking forward to 00:27:28.343 --> 00:27:29.583 seeing if the hype is right. 00:27:32.263 --> 00:27:35.083 I'm embarrassed to say that I didn't get to see it in the theatres. 00:27:35.283 --> 00:27:37.163 I wanted to see it in the theatres. No, I didn't see it in theatres. 00:27:37.163 --> 00:27:40.643 And I just – the timing just didn't work out. 00:27:40.803 --> 00:27:46.043 And I've – part of it is my fault because part of it was I really wanted to see it in IMAX. 00:27:46.143 --> 00:27:50.123 And so I kept waiting for it to come to an IMAX theater that was closer to me. 00:27:50.263 --> 00:27:53.583 And then all of a sudden it was out of the theaters. 00:27:54.183 --> 00:27:59.423 So I too am looking forward to sitting down, you know, with a decent surround 00:27:59.423 --> 00:28:04.123 sound system and trying to experience it. because every one that I've talked 00:28:04.123 --> 00:28:08.083 to says this is a movie that you don't just watch, you experience. 00:28:08.663 --> 00:28:12.923 And so I'm looking forward to that. I'm slightly disappointed I didn't get to 00:28:12.923 --> 00:28:17.163 see it in an IMAX either, but I'm still very much looking forward to it, 00:28:17.323 --> 00:28:19.803 very much looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about. 00:28:20.883 --> 00:28:24.743 I hope it lives up to that fuss. I mean, it's a pretty amazing cast, right? 00:28:24.803 --> 00:28:28.703 Any cast with Brad Pitt and Javier Bardem in it is got to be worth taking seriously. 00:28:28.703 --> 00:28:33.703 You've also got Dabbs and Idris there as a character called Joshua Pierce. Um, 00:28:34.746 --> 00:28:41.226 So you might find this interesting. IMDb, it's got a rating of 7.7 out of 10. Not bad. 00:28:42.066 --> 00:28:43.606 Rotten Tomatoes on 82%. 00:28:44.766 --> 00:28:49.446 Not bad. But I'm going to be settling down to watch this, I think. 00:28:52.046 --> 00:28:55.446 I did not know those scores, Charlotte. I'd be really interested, 00:28:55.686 --> 00:29:01.786 and if I care enough after the show, I'll look it up to see what other sports 00:29:01.786 --> 00:29:03.206 movies and how they rank. 00:29:03.206 --> 00:29:09.406 Because I think sports movies of any stripe, they appeal to fans of that sport, 00:29:09.566 --> 00:29:14.646 obviously, and they, like you say with Brad Pitt, that's going to bring certain 00:29:14.646 --> 00:29:17.506 people into it, whether they're into the sport or not. 00:29:18.506 --> 00:29:22.406 But I also feel like sports can be just a bit divisive when it comes to movies 00:29:22.406 --> 00:29:26.626 because it has to be done well, whatever the sport. 00:29:26.626 --> 00:29:29.566 And i feel like that from what i've 00:29:29.566 --> 00:29:33.186 everything i've read there's been no criticism of the 00:29:33.186 --> 00:29:36.266 portrayal of the the f1 racing as a 00:29:36.266 --> 00:29:40.346 sport and how it's portrayed yeah so 00:29:40.346 --> 00:29:43.026 yeah i think i i'm really 00:29:43.026 --> 00:29:45.946 looking forward to sitting down with this one uh just before we 00:29:45.946 --> 00:29:48.786 wrap up there's a couple of i'm interested that 00:29:48.786 --> 00:29:51.566 neither of us have mentioned these but we should pluribus has 00:29:51.566 --> 00:29:54.966 obviously been a massive hit for Apple came out 00:29:54.966 --> 00:29:58.966 just over a month ago that's been a massive hit we're on we've had three seasons 00:29:58.966 --> 00:30:04.486 of Luke now that's a pretty I think under the radar hit uh just another one 00:30:04.486 --> 00:30:08.006 actually I should have said at the top of the show to do with looking ahead 00:30:08.006 --> 00:30:12.846 on the 9th of January is you're just getting back into the year and recovering 00:30:12.846 --> 00:30:14.126 from the Christmas holidays, 00:30:15.106 --> 00:30:23.246 Tehran is coming back that's the 9th of January 2026 that's another one to be looking off at. 00:30:24.766 --> 00:30:30.806 To wrap up then before we head off for the Christmas break I wanted to ask you 00:30:30.806 --> 00:30:33.526 this do you think Apple TV has had a good year. 00:30:35.341 --> 00:30:41.321 I think it's had a very good year. I think that the low point of the year for 00:30:41.321 --> 00:30:44.221 Apple TV has been the lack of promotion. 00:30:44.701 --> 00:30:49.101 But at least one of the high points has been all the awards. 00:30:49.941 --> 00:30:52.861 And again, we've said this before on the show, you pay a lot more attention 00:30:52.861 --> 00:30:56.281 to that than I do. you recognize the importance of it. 00:30:56.801 --> 00:31:04.041 And it seems like every award show, their Apple TV shows are right up there, 00:31:04.301 --> 00:31:06.421 right in their pitching with everybody else. Got some good Golden Globe nominations. 00:31:07.021 --> 00:31:09.641 Yes. See, again, I knew she would do that. 00:31:12.801 --> 00:31:15.861 They're constantly mentioned. They're constantly brought up. 00:31:15.961 --> 00:31:17.761 They're constantly listed among the best. 00:31:18.261 --> 00:31:25.801 And that, to me, speaks more than if they actually win. because the winning part is subjective. 00:31:26.321 --> 00:31:30.861 But the nomination is also subjective, but I think it's less subjective because 00:31:30.861 --> 00:31:33.481 you aren't being asked to just limit yourself. 00:31:34.021 --> 00:31:40.501 So I feel like that has been a real highlight and part of the success story of Apple TV. 00:31:42.749 --> 00:31:48.469 I think that actually the point about nominations is that Apple is consistently nominated. 00:31:48.869 --> 00:31:53.889 You know, there are standout things that win stuff, but there is a pattern now 00:31:53.889 --> 00:31:59.309 of these bodies, whatever we think of them, recognising the work that Apple puts out. 00:31:59.629 --> 00:32:02.969 I'm going to say something that I think might shock you. And it's only just 00:32:02.969 --> 00:32:04.909 occurred to me as we've been discussing this. 00:32:05.429 --> 00:32:10.869 I think 2025 might have been Apple TV's best year. 00:32:12.249 --> 00:32:16.449 I think it's the year 00:32:16.449 --> 00:32:19.269 where it's had hit shows and shows that 00:32:19.269 --> 00:32:22.469 people want to come back to so new hits and returning 00:32:22.469 --> 00:32:26.069 hits i think it's sports 00:32:26.069 --> 00:32:31.229 moments haven't been great but you know that deal with f1 is a very big deal 00:32:31.229 --> 00:32:36.689 and how it's established itself with that movie i really think this is the year 00:32:36.689 --> 00:32:41.149 apple tv established itself like properly properly I think there was disturbances 00:32:41.149 --> 00:32:43.709 due to the COVID years and what that did to production schedules. 00:32:43.989 --> 00:32:50.049 I think everything is back on track. I think with F1, it's had a huge hit movie. 00:32:50.429 --> 00:32:55.209 It's got good nominations at the Golden Globes. I think there is now we're really 00:32:55.209 --> 00:32:59.989 truly at the point where if people look at that Apple TV catalogue, 00:33:00.129 --> 00:33:04.709 they go, oh, there's quite a lot for me to watch here. Yeah. 00:33:05.624 --> 00:33:10.464 I don't know about the rebrand. Why not? I mean, it kind of separates itself. 00:33:10.704 --> 00:33:14.144 I'll forever take the mickey that there are three products all called Apple TV. 00:33:15.024 --> 00:33:18.764 And I'm not having it that the app is just called TV. 00:33:20.724 --> 00:33:25.984 They need to sort that out. But I really think this has been a big, big year for Apple TV. 00:33:26.164 --> 00:33:29.004 And it didn't occur to me until we were having this conversation. 00:33:29.404 --> 00:33:31.124 But I really do think that. 00:33:33.404 --> 00:33:34.864 How could I disagree with you? 00:33:35.624 --> 00:33:41.164 And I think one of the big reasons I agree with you is they're twofold. 00:33:41.344 --> 00:33:47.584 First of all, just the consistency across the board of not just writing on one or two shows. 00:33:48.184 --> 00:33:55.684 That's the point. With no disrespect intended to Ted Lasso or to the early parts 00:33:55.684 --> 00:34:01.444 of Mythic Quest, they were out at a time that things were different. 00:34:01.444 --> 00:34:09.664 And Apple TV was new and finding its feet the streaming world was a lot different and now, 00:34:10.364 --> 00:34:15.664 Apple seems to really be comfortable in where they are and they're just delivering 00:34:15.664 --> 00:34:20.704 show after show after show but your other point because when I started making 00:34:20.704 --> 00:34:24.884 this list I thought oh my gosh I got to go back and see what came out in 2025 00:34:24.884 --> 00:34:29.944 and which ones I've watched and which ones actually are still on my to watch list. 00:34:31.726 --> 00:34:38.106 And I realized that, again, to your point, that there is a bit of a deeper catalog 00:34:38.106 --> 00:34:43.566 developing, a repeat catalog that, oh, yeah, that was a great show. 00:34:43.606 --> 00:34:44.926 I want to go back and watch that again. 00:34:45.566 --> 00:34:48.566 And that happened to me multiple times going through the list. 00:34:48.966 --> 00:34:53.946 And it's like, okay, this is the mark of mature. 00:34:53.946 --> 00:34:57.226 If you say mature, it sounds like you're saying it's over the hill. 00:34:57.226 --> 00:35:04.546 But let's just say a fully developed streaming service that is not young anymore, 00:35:04.546 --> 00:35:07.466 but it's not old. It's just coming into its own. 00:35:08.426 --> 00:35:11.966 Fully developed is exactly the phrase I was looking for. And I think, 00:35:12.106 --> 00:35:15.906 and it's not unreasonable, right? You know, Netflix didn't arrive fully developed. 00:35:16.106 --> 00:35:18.246 It arrived with the catalog, then it started making shows. 00:35:19.226 --> 00:35:25.706 I think 2025 is the year Apple TV became fully developed. That's exactly the 00:35:25.706 --> 00:35:27.066 phrase I was looking for. Thank you. 00:35:28.806 --> 00:35:32.406 Let's wrap it on that i because i love the fact that i came up with something 00:35:32.406 --> 00:35:37.106 that satisfied you yeah i'm i'm just a bit sad that i've been so nice about 00:35:37.106 --> 00:35:41.726 something this this and the service we talk about this episode but you know 00:35:41.726 --> 00:35:45.466 what i enjoy stuff i enjoy stuff exactly exactly. 00:35:48.978 --> 00:35:53.518 So where can people keep up with you, Chuck? Well, through the end of the year, 00:35:53.698 --> 00:35:58.498 I will be continuing to release content over at macvoices.com. 00:35:58.998 --> 00:36:02.658 They include some of our holiday gift guides, which are always a lot of fun, 00:36:03.378 --> 00:36:05.518 as well as our regular content. 00:36:05.898 --> 00:36:08.818 And watch out for 2026 because there's even more coming. 00:36:09.778 --> 00:36:12.578 On the socials, you can find me as at Chuck. Oh, sorry. 00:36:13.158 --> 00:36:16.638 On the socials, you can find me as at Chuck Joyner on pretty much all of them. 00:36:17.238 --> 00:36:17.998 Charlotte, how about you? 00:36:18.838 --> 00:36:22.558 Well, I was just going to warn people, actually, that watching your gift guides 00:36:22.558 --> 00:36:25.198 is great, but they will cost you money. 00:36:26.238 --> 00:36:30.738 They cost me money. Yeah, this is the thing, isn't it? You invite people on, 00:36:30.758 --> 00:36:33.478 you think you're doing a nice thing, and then you end up going out and buying 00:36:33.478 --> 00:36:35.918 the stuff that they've recommended. 00:36:37.738 --> 00:36:41.418 Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I hear you. um 00:36:41.418 --> 00:36:44.378 i'm at charlotte henry across social media and 00:36:44.378 --> 00:36:47.598 i'm at the addition.net newslettering blogging 00:36:47.598 --> 00:36:50.698 podcasting about the crossover of culture media and 00:36:50.698 --> 00:36:56.458 sports just behind me i have a new book out it's called streaming wars and it 00:36:56.458 --> 00:37:00.878 discusses all the kind of things chuck and i discuss on this show and more it's 00:37:00.878 --> 00:37:04.498 i don't think there is another book and i i'm saying this with due humility 00:37:04.498 --> 00:37:07.858 that brings together all the different streaming services there are obviously 00:37:07.858 --> 00:37:10.138 fantastic books on Netflix, 00:37:10.138 --> 00:37:13.198 on Amazon, and how it's got into Prime Video and so on. 00:37:13.278 --> 00:37:16.578 But I really wanted to bring everything together in this book. 00:37:16.858 --> 00:37:20.938 So I hope it'll either be a Christmas gift to yourself or maybe a loved one. 00:37:22.458 --> 00:37:25.998 And all I can say then is, Chuck, I hope you have a very Merry Christmas and 00:37:25.998 --> 00:37:29.578 a Happy New Year, and I look forward to being back podcasting with you in 2026. 00:37:30.878 --> 00:37:34.958 Charlotte, the same to you, the same to all of our listeners and viewers. 00:37:35.158 --> 00:37:38.518 No matter what they celebrate, I hope you have a great holiday season. 00:37:38.898 --> 00:37:42.238 We will be back. Thanks for watching.