WEBVTT 00:00:12.561 --> 00:00:17.541 Welcome to TV Plus Talk. I'm Chuck Joyner. She is Charlotte Henry. 00:00:18.121 --> 00:00:19.581 Charlotte, great to see you. Hello, hello. 00:00:20.401 --> 00:00:25.141 So good to see you. Happy TV Talk Day and Happy Thanksgiving Week, 00:00:25.201 --> 00:00:27.441 American friends. This is very nice. 00:00:27.881 --> 00:00:33.061 Yes, as we record this, the holiday is coming up on us. 00:00:33.661 --> 00:00:37.421 When you'll see this, I'm not sure, but the sentiment remains the same. 00:00:37.561 --> 00:00:40.621 So thank you, Charlotte. We appreciate it. It does remain the same and, 00:00:41.980 --> 00:00:45.740 You know, maybe you'll enjoy this finishing off your turkey or something. 00:00:46.480 --> 00:00:50.800 Sure. And listen, if you want turkey yourself, even though you're not in the 00:00:50.800 --> 00:00:54.620 U.S., feel free to borrow our holiday as an excuse to cook a turkey. 00:00:55.700 --> 00:01:00.300 I mean, I am obviously pro-turkey. Yeah. 00:01:01.760 --> 00:01:04.640 I've never heard anybody take that position before. I like it. 00:01:04.800 --> 00:01:10.160 Yeah, no, no, I am pro-turkey dinners and turkey sandwiches. 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:14.200 So, you know, we can enjoy it. We can make this a transatlantic celebration. 00:01:14.380 --> 00:01:19.080 And as I was saying to you off air, I'm pro having a day where the NFL is on 00:01:19.080 --> 00:01:22.260 the whole time. It's an extra day of that as well. So that's always quite fun. 00:01:23.440 --> 00:01:25.780 We're glad we can help accommodate you, Charlotte. 00:01:28.660 --> 00:01:33.240 So we're here to talk Apple TV. Is that what we're doing? Well, 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:34.760 yeah, that's kind of the plan. 00:01:36.380 --> 00:01:40.000 Although later we will degenerate into a sports discussion related to Apple 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:45.700 TV. But I guess the first thing to start off with is the morning show has wrapped up season four. 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.960 Have you finished the season? Because I still have an episode and a half to go. 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:54.820 I've got a bit to go as well. And I think we should give viewers, 00:01:54.880 --> 00:01:57.220 listeners a little bit of time to make sure everyone's finished. 00:01:57.580 --> 00:02:00.660 Because I think we've got to do a deep dive right next show. 00:02:00.800 --> 00:02:02.480 We'll do a deep dive into the whole season. 00:02:03.340 --> 00:02:09.120 Yeah, I think that's good. But I will say this, that I was very satisfied, 00:02:09.460 --> 00:02:13.840 much more satisfied with this season than previous seasons. So hopefully that'll 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.100 encourage some people to go out and check it out. 00:02:17.170 --> 00:02:24.510 I agree entirely with you. And each episode has kind of got better as well, I would say, so far. 00:02:25.690 --> 00:02:32.790 Yes, would agree with that too. So we'll dive into that in a couple of weeks' time. 00:02:33.830 --> 00:02:38.150 I'm going to be a bit naughty and break from our slightly planned schedule because 00:02:38.150 --> 00:02:45.930 I think it links us, which is that Apple TV has the highest rated IMDb shows. 00:02:46.690 --> 00:02:50.490 Now, you said this to me. I got the impression you weren't surprised by this. 00:02:51.790 --> 00:02:58.830 Well, let's put it this way. I agree with it. And I'm kind of – I feel validated 00:02:58.830 --> 00:03:04.310 because we've talked several times on this show about just the quality of the 00:03:04.310 --> 00:03:05.570 shows that are being put out. 00:03:05.730 --> 00:03:09.550 Even the quality of shows that don't interest me personally or you personally 00:03:09.550 --> 00:03:15.310 still seem to get really high marks for the quality of the show. 00:03:15.310 --> 00:03:16.910 And so this just brought it up. 00:03:17.330 --> 00:03:23.170 And I feel like this integrates also into our discussions about back catalogs 00:03:23.170 --> 00:03:31.190 and just having these massive libraries as opposed to focusing on delivering quality and value, 00:03:31.450 --> 00:03:33.890 not just for the time, but also for the money. 00:03:34.310 --> 00:03:37.770 So again, I felt a bit vindicated by this. 00:03:39.368 --> 00:03:45.568 Yeah i entirely agree with you actually it's um apple has always taken the quality 00:03:45.568 --> 00:03:49.228 not quantity approach we've said it from the start of this show they've said 00:03:49.228 --> 00:03:50.248 it from the start of the service. 00:03:52.088 --> 00:03:55.148 And this seems to be some kind of justification look 00:03:55.148 --> 00:03:58.268 imdb is imdb right it's not you know 00:03:58.268 --> 00:04:01.408 it's only as accurate as the people that play into it but it 00:04:01.408 --> 00:04:04.348 this does give an indication that when people watch stuff 00:04:04.348 --> 00:04:08.368 on Apple TV they like it and think 00:04:08.368 --> 00:04:13.968 it's of high quality and so that does tell us something and if I were Apple 00:04:13.968 --> 00:04:19.948 Pete you know uh Jamie Ehrlich and whatever who are running Apple TV I would 00:04:19.948 --> 00:04:23.788 just be a little bit satisfied with this and actually at a strategic level I 00:04:23.788 --> 00:04:25.648 think it probably bears out as well, 00:04:26.821 --> 00:04:31.461 You know, in that sense of saying, we're not going to pump out a whole load of stuff. 00:04:31.601 --> 00:04:35.001 We're not going to buy a whole load of stuff on Catalog. 00:04:35.321 --> 00:04:40.961 We're going to focus on the high-end, what's the comparison? 00:04:41.081 --> 00:04:44.381 Was that HBO kind of, you know, that's what it wants to be, right? 00:04:44.581 --> 00:04:47.501 And that, I think, has clearly started to work. 00:04:49.601 --> 00:04:54.101 And Charlotte, you know, it kind of takes us back to the original introduction 00:04:54.101 --> 00:04:58.841 of when it was Apple TV+. us that Tim Cook came out and said, 00:04:58.941 --> 00:05:00.941 you know, this is all about telling great stories. 00:05:02.481 --> 00:05:05.901 And we've also talked about how Apple plays the long game. 00:05:06.041 --> 00:05:11.661 And this would seem to validate their long-term strategy that this is what they 00:05:11.661 --> 00:05:14.141 wanted to do the whole way through. 00:05:14.361 --> 00:05:21.101 Now, this is one article about one evaluation, but I think it's kind of hard 00:05:21.101 --> 00:05:25.521 to argue with the whole premise of being great stories. 00:05:27.461 --> 00:05:35.121 I agree I wonder if that's enough to sustain a streaming service we'll come on to why in a minute, 00:05:36.021 --> 00:05:42.641 got you know the main bulk of what we're talking about today but yes so just 00:05:42.641 --> 00:05:46.721 what this is what Apple World said it said Apple has the highest average INDB 00:05:46.721 --> 00:05:51.961 score for its streaming library was the average was seven out of ten and I didn't 00:05:51.961 --> 00:05:55.381 quite realize this till I dived into it but that It's for the fourth year running. 00:05:56.663 --> 00:06:01.823 I don't think, I've forgotten that part. Right. That to me seems very significant. 00:06:02.303 --> 00:06:05.423 2021, 22, 24, and 25. 00:06:06.583 --> 00:06:09.663 Wait, that's not four years now. Anyway, four years out of the last five, 00:06:09.883 --> 00:06:13.963 it's been the top performing one. 00:06:14.143 --> 00:06:20.063 For some reason, it wasn't quite there in 2023, but it still has the smallest library. Okay. 00:06:21.983 --> 00:06:31.603 So basically, you could argue, therefore, that it is getting most of its show 00:06:31.603 --> 00:06:34.703 selection, the things it commissions, correct. 00:06:36.043 --> 00:06:38.763 That is obviously the case that Apple would make, right? 00:06:39.663 --> 00:06:46.203 Yeah, I would agree. I would agree. So that's a pretty good endorsement. 00:06:47.003 --> 00:06:51.763 You know, I think so, and I think it's interesting, and perhaps this is a bit 00:06:51.763 --> 00:06:56.423 ill-timed just because of the way the world has evolved, but we've talked about 00:06:56.423 --> 00:06:59.043 how some people, at least some people I know, 00:06:59.703 --> 00:07:03.423 bounce from service to service because they want to watch a particular series. 00:07:03.703 --> 00:07:07.983 It's not as much about subscribing to Netflix, Disney, whatever. 00:07:07.983 --> 00:07:17.303 They have show reasons for subscribing as opposed to saying, 00:07:17.543 --> 00:07:26.383 I want to subscribe to Apple TV or God help us NBC or one of the networks or the BBC or Sky One. 00:07:26.663 --> 00:07:33.523 So that's too bad because Apple TV is delivering on what they promised. 00:07:34.303 --> 00:07:37.123 And I think what people will enjoy watching. Sorry to interrupt, 00:07:37.143 --> 00:07:41.263 but I really want to emphasize that point you've just made. Okay. 00:07:41.743 --> 00:07:45.043 Delivering on what they promised. Okay. 00:07:46.779 --> 00:07:51.219 I think that's such an important point you've just made. Yeah, thank you. 00:07:52.599 --> 00:07:57.019 Because that's, I mean, and it seems kind of obvious, and I feel like it's been obvious for a while. 00:07:57.679 --> 00:08:03.019 And for whatever reason, neither one of us have picked up in the past on these IMDb ratings. 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:05.739 So I love it. 00:08:07.039 --> 00:08:11.279 Maybe we're gushing a little too much about it, but I just think it speaks to 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:16.319 almost every show we've done here on TV Plus Talk. 00:08:16.779 --> 00:08:19.959 That, you know, we stress the value, we stress the quality. 00:08:20.379 --> 00:08:25.499 And, you know, not every show, not every episode of every show is going to be a 10 out of 10. 00:08:26.099 --> 00:08:28.019 But overall, the effect is there. 00:08:29.339 --> 00:08:34.019 Right, and that's the point of this rating, right? It's average streaming. 00:08:34.359 --> 00:08:38.779 So it's the average across all the catalog. That is what's 7 out of 10. 00:08:38.939 --> 00:08:44.779 It's actually prime video that seems to have the most excellent quality or the 00:08:44.779 --> 00:08:47.319 best TV shows per $1 is the way it's described here. 00:08:47.439 --> 00:08:52.639 So generally people, the top, it's Prime that has the most top shows. 00:08:52.859 --> 00:08:56.879 But as a whole, this is saying that despite having the smallest library, 00:08:57.159 --> 00:08:59.479 which I guess helps you with the average, right? 00:08:59.919 --> 00:09:02.959 If you have a smaller library. 00:09:03.279 --> 00:09:07.999 But anyway, there seems to be a sort of quality thing, if not quantity thing 00:09:07.999 --> 00:09:09.659 going on with TV, Apple TV. 00:09:10.079 --> 00:09:14.139 And again, that is what they, just to reiterate your point, That is what they promised. 00:09:14.279 --> 00:09:18.599 It would not be a dumping ground for a load of stuff. 00:09:19.219 --> 00:09:23.159 It would not be the place where you watched huge amounts of things, 00:09:23.859 --> 00:09:29.759 but they promised what was on there would be good and would be of high quality. 00:09:29.979 --> 00:09:35.999 And they've been ruthless in getting rid of stuff that wasn't received well. And. 00:09:37.777 --> 00:09:42.217 Again, let's not overstate what this one little bit of data is, 00:09:42.397 --> 00:09:49.277 but it's a good positive indicator for the service, I think. 00:09:50.077 --> 00:09:53.777 And, you know, I want to go back to something you said, because you make a really 00:09:53.777 --> 00:09:58.537 interesting point that, okay, it's not number one. 00:09:58.897 --> 00:10:02.517 And is it enough to sustain a streaming service? 00:10:03.577 --> 00:10:05.057 That's an open question. 00:10:07.137 --> 00:10:12.557 But what is, you know, viable? Because Apple feels like it's putting a lot of 00:10:12.557 --> 00:10:15.437 money into this, and it's getting out a lot. 00:10:15.737 --> 00:10:19.757 As opposed to some of the others that are just throwing money at the wall to 00:10:19.757 --> 00:10:22.097 try to, you know, produce a lot of shows. 00:10:22.277 --> 00:10:25.437 And invariably, they're going to hit, you know, some good shows. 00:10:25.877 --> 00:10:27.437 Invariably, they're going to miss a lot. 00:10:28.077 --> 00:10:32.557 And, you know, I'm not sure it's wasted money, but it certainly is not giving 00:10:32.557 --> 00:10:37.577 the shareholders the value back or the viewers, for that matter. 00:10:37.777 --> 00:10:41.437 So, yeah, it's a different approach than anybody else is taking. 00:10:42.683 --> 00:10:48.163 Yeah, there's another interesting stat in that Apple World article that jumped 00:10:48.163 --> 00:10:52.223 out to me, which is Prime Video game, the most content year on year, 00:10:52.583 --> 00:10:57.423 went up 83.3% new content. 00:10:57.943 --> 00:11:02.543 And then the next was Apple on 39.5% increase in content. 00:11:04.283 --> 00:11:08.543 That kind of is interesting as well, right? Right. So Prime Video is obviously 00:11:08.543 --> 00:11:13.663 doing the sort of approach you've just talked about of trying to get a load more stuff in there. 00:11:15.043 --> 00:11:21.103 Apple is getting more stuff in there, not anywhere near to the level that Prime Video is. 00:11:21.523 --> 00:11:24.943 It's beating Disney, by the way, which was up 27.9 percent. 00:11:26.843 --> 00:11:30.963 And and so that that kind of underlines, again, what we're talking about. Right. 00:11:31.183 --> 00:11:36.663 It is building a library. It's not building it hugely fast, But it's building 00:11:36.663 --> 00:11:39.943 it enough that there's still new stuff on there. 00:11:40.363 --> 00:11:44.083 Again, like you, I don't want to sound like we're gushing, but I think we have 00:11:44.083 --> 00:11:48.563 to deal with reality as it is. You and I have criticized shows on TV. 00:11:48.843 --> 00:11:55.743 Plus, we've consistently criticized the way they market Apple TV consistently 00:11:55.743 --> 00:11:59.423 from day one, and I think that is still a valid criticism. 00:12:00.263 --> 00:12:03.983 But we've always said when you actually sit down and dive into it, 00:12:04.423 --> 00:12:06.743 there's a lot of pretty decent shows there. 00:12:07.923 --> 00:12:11.183 I would say one thing, if I want to put a slightly negative spin on it, 00:12:11.363 --> 00:12:13.183 seven out of 10 is the average. Okay. 00:12:14.435 --> 00:12:21.455 Now, 7 out of 10 applies to me. There's a lot – well, no, a lot of your shows are quite good. 00:12:22.055 --> 00:12:25.995 How many Apple TV shows would you say are 9 out of 10? 00:12:26.675 --> 00:12:29.135 I think that's the next thing they need to focus on. 00:12:30.135 --> 00:12:33.255 Yeah, and that's a – boy, that's a really subjective thing because, 00:12:33.515 --> 00:12:38.215 again, we've had this conversation that, you know, some of the things that you 00:12:38.215 --> 00:12:42.615 would probably give a 9 out of 10 or a 10 out of 10, And they wouldn't even 00:12:42.615 --> 00:12:44.655 rank for me because I just wasn't interested. 00:12:44.935 --> 00:12:49.175 But then there were others that I really liked that I'm not sure you were quite 00:12:49.175 --> 00:12:52.015 as enamored with, if you were enamored at all. 00:12:52.195 --> 00:12:57.775 So, yeah, that's this problem with this kind of thing, both good and bad. 00:12:58.015 --> 00:12:59.855 Sure, we want to see them at the top of the list. 00:13:02.255 --> 00:13:08.895 But Best is so subjective. And your comment about Prime is really also interesting 00:13:08.895 --> 00:13:13.035 to me because right now I can think of a lot of the Apple TV shows that I've 00:13:13.035 --> 00:13:15.275 watched the series over the last, 00:13:15.455 --> 00:13:17.615 let's just say, four or five months. 00:13:18.155 --> 00:13:23.695 I can't really remember any Prime series that I've watched. And I am a Prime 00:13:23.695 --> 00:13:27.515 subscriber because I have Amazon Prime for all the other reasons that you get 00:13:27.515 --> 00:13:28.755 Amazon Prime. For me, it's Reacher. 00:13:30.027 --> 00:13:33.167 Reacher, okay, I'll give you Reacher. Reacher was very good. 00:13:33.327 --> 00:13:34.827 I watched season one of Reacher. 00:13:35.767 --> 00:13:38.827 Is enjoyed the word to describe how you watch Reacher? 00:13:39.207 --> 00:13:44.027 I don't know if it's enjoyed, but I watched it all. I thought it was a very good series. 00:13:44.847 --> 00:13:48.527 Yeah, well, enjoyed it would be the term I would use for pretty much anything. 00:13:48.827 --> 00:13:51.227 You know, I mean, it was, I like the character. 00:13:52.707 --> 00:13:56.947 It's quite graphic, isn't it? Well, yeah, but that's, you know, 00:13:57.027 --> 00:14:01.607 and happily we've, Apple is also quite graphic in places. 00:14:03.047 --> 00:14:08.947 Right, yeah. So they've maintained parity with that. 00:14:09.487 --> 00:14:14.487 Honestly, I went through Reacher, and okay, so maybe give me another one. 00:14:14.567 --> 00:14:17.467 If you come up with one, I'll acknowledge it. 00:14:17.567 --> 00:14:19.987 But I can't think of another. I'm not good. 00:14:20.547 --> 00:14:27.187 Yeah, and yet I see stuff promoted all over Prime, and yet none of it makes my watch list. 00:14:30.662 --> 00:14:36.762 No no i think i agree with that that's very interesting one thing prime video 00:14:36.762 --> 00:14:48.422 does of course have is live sport and that world is somewhat changing as to 00:14:48.422 --> 00:14:50.342 where apple tv sits into it, 00:14:51.622 --> 00:14:58.942 which is is very interesting so the first thing i guess we should do is discuss Major League Baseball. 00:15:00.382 --> 00:15:04.002 I like baseball. I'm not sure you're a massive baseball fan, are you? 00:15:04.942 --> 00:15:08.682 I'm not any kind of baseball fan. Well, that's not true. 00:15:09.062 --> 00:15:16.282 I enjoy the 30 seconds worth of highlights in a daily newscast because, 00:15:16.482 --> 00:15:19.362 yes, there's some amazing plays. I'm just not willing to invest three, 00:15:19.642 --> 00:15:23.582 four, five, six hours to get that 30-second hit. 00:15:24.602 --> 00:15:27.982 I get that i get that um well 00:15:27.982 --> 00:15:33.722 interestingly well game seven of the world series was huge moment the most watched 00:15:33.722 --> 00:15:38.082 major league baseball game in 34 years apparently and there is now a three-year 00:15:38.082 --> 00:15:46.482 media rights agreement with nbc universal and you will notice which company is not in that list chuck. 00:15:48.042 --> 00:15:55.682 Yeah but also Apple is a streaming service, 00:15:56.881 --> 00:15:59.981 And a lot of, I think, didn't you say NBC? 00:16:01.501 --> 00:16:05.761 NBC Universal, ESPN, and Netflix. Okay. 00:16:06.101 --> 00:16:12.121 So, yeah, so to be fair, they are all paid streaming services. 00:16:13.861 --> 00:16:15.241 So, yeah. Right. 00:16:17.381 --> 00:16:23.141 Apple just decided to put their money elsewhere. That is exactly right. 00:16:23.141 --> 00:16:29.521 And there's a lot going on with Apple in the sports space, which is part of the story. 00:16:29.661 --> 00:16:32.781 So it's got Formula One, which we've discussed. 00:16:36.141 --> 00:16:41.861 It's currently got Major League Soccer, but that is coming to an end. 00:16:42.141 --> 00:16:49.921 And Apple has actually paid a huge amount of money to get out of its decade-long MLS deal early. 00:16:50.281 --> 00:16:52.241 We found that out during the week. 00:16:54.041 --> 00:17:00.001 We've got so a change coming before that deal ends which is the games are now 00:17:00.001 --> 00:17:07.401 going outside the paywall from next season so as you know to watch the MLS you 00:17:07.401 --> 00:17:11.121 have to buy what they call season pass which is an, 00:17:11.941 --> 00:17:13.441 add on to Apple TV, 00:17:14.361 --> 00:17:19.141 some games have come out of that paywall already, now every game will be coming 00:17:19.141 --> 00:17:25.981 out of that paywall I have to say, I think this was a major gaffe by MLS, 00:17:26.701 --> 00:17:30.621 Apple or both to ever put it behind an extra paywall. 00:17:31.773 --> 00:17:36.513 You're asking people to pay twice for a league that is not that popular in the 00:17:36.513 --> 00:17:40.033 first place and that desperately needs people to want to watch it. 00:17:40.773 --> 00:17:43.593 I am shocked they ever thought that would work. 00:17:45.553 --> 00:17:49.493 You follow this much more than I do, so I can't comment. 00:17:49.753 --> 00:17:53.733 I mean, I think it's kind of obvious that anytime you ask people to pay extra 00:17:53.733 --> 00:17:56.873 for anything, it's going to cut down your viewership. 00:17:57.433 --> 00:18:02.233 Whether they felt like they could do it because of the stars that they attracted, 00:18:02.573 --> 00:18:04.813 and that would drive it or not. 00:18:05.893 --> 00:18:12.253 But it keeps Apple in the live sports game in something that is, 00:18:12.373 --> 00:18:15.933 at least it feels to me, boy, I'm going to get emails for this. 00:18:16.093 --> 00:18:21.053 It feels like it's a little more up and coming than established in the U.S. 00:18:22.073 --> 00:18:29.033 From a fan and viewer standpoint. So this just, I'm glad to see it. 00:18:29.553 --> 00:18:33.993 Was it a gif? was it a requirement by one side or the other we'll never know 00:18:33.993 --> 00:18:38.593 right we don't know that yeah we don't know if the mls said get all your money 00:18:38.593 --> 00:18:41.253 our money you need to add this season pass feature, 00:18:42.413 --> 00:18:48.273 if they did they were idiotic if apple said why don't we try and do this apple 00:18:48.273 --> 00:18:53.953 idiotic if they both thought it was a good idea both groups are idiotic it because 00:18:53.953 --> 00:19:00.793 there was no way that was ever going to get enough interest. It just wasn't. 00:19:01.853 --> 00:19:04.993 Someone like me who can watch most soccer leagues from around the world, 00:19:06.213 --> 00:19:09.733 I'm never going to pay it. What was it? £99 or something for the season? 00:19:10.969 --> 00:19:14.149 I can't remember what it was, but there was just never a chance I was going 00:19:14.149 --> 00:19:16.129 to pay that much. Pay anything. 00:19:16.449 --> 00:19:21.849 Had it been part of Apple TV and they'd said, how cool, as part of your Apple 00:19:21.849 --> 00:19:26.489 TV, then Apple TV Plus subscription, you get to watch all of the MLS. 00:19:27.629 --> 00:19:32.629 Cool. Maybe if there's the time zones aligned and there's some players I want 00:19:32.629 --> 00:19:35.009 to watch, maybe I'll put the MLS on in the background. 00:19:36.029 --> 00:19:43.089 There was zero possibility of me do paying that extra amount and if i'm not going to. 00:19:44.829 --> 00:19:47.809 There's if i'm not in the pool of people that might pay that 00:19:47.809 --> 00:19:50.769 there's a not very big pool let me put it that way 00:19:50.769 --> 00:19:55.409 of people that are going to do it i think it was an insane decision it was a 00:19:55.409 --> 00:20:02.249 huge risk to do a 10-year deal first of all and second as i say i can say in 00:20:02.249 --> 00:20:05.989 as many different ways yeah the idea that you would put two barriers to entry 00:20:05.989 --> 00:20:07.889 to watch the league was insane, 00:20:09.529 --> 00:20:15.969 and now sorry go ahead no and now now it's coming to an end was all i was going to say, 00:20:16.849 --> 00:20:24.029 yeah so let me offer an alternate alternate explanation um was this was this 00:20:24.029 --> 00:20:29.469 a test Was this a test to see if soccer in the U.S. 00:20:30.449 --> 00:20:34.689 Could, would draw enough of an audience to pay for it? 00:20:34.829 --> 00:20:42.429 And I'm taking my cues from the NFL because the NFL used to be all broadcasts. 00:20:44.368 --> 00:20:49.828 Wide open. And then we started to see things drift into, in behind paywalls. 00:20:49.968 --> 00:20:51.848 Monday night football went behind a paywall. 00:20:52.028 --> 00:20:56.608 Then Thursday night football was, uh, was prime only. 00:20:57.108 --> 00:21:02.788 And so right there, you're asking people to pay more, maybe not specifically 00:21:02.788 --> 00:21:07.268 for that, but you're asking people to, for people to pay, to watch those games. 00:21:10.648 --> 00:21:15.748 We've seen games go exclusively to Peacock as well. Yes, exactly. A couple of games. 00:21:16.188 --> 00:21:19.268 Yeah. And so, you know, where does this go? 00:21:19.548 --> 00:21:24.508 You know, are we just moving to a point where the broadcast TV is going to be 00:21:24.508 --> 00:21:29.428 nothing but reality TV and game shows and everything you're going to have to 00:21:29.428 --> 00:21:30.628 pay somebody to watch it? 00:21:32.260 --> 00:21:41.340 Or did they realize, did Apple TV Plus and MLS decide or realize that they weren't 00:21:41.340 --> 00:21:45.140 getting the traction they wanted and decided to push it back outside the paywall? 00:21:46.360 --> 00:21:52.420 I suspect it's the latter. So there's some crazy stat that I keep hearing on 00:21:52.420 --> 00:21:54.480 all, like, the sports media podcasts and stuff. 00:21:54.680 --> 00:22:00.920 I think it's something like the 99 most watched TV shows last year or something 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:06.120 were 99 of the 100 most watched TV shows or TV episodes were NFL games. 00:22:06.220 --> 00:22:07.740 It's something insane like that. 00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:13.500 I'm probably slightly warping, but basically almost everything in America that 00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:14.840 is popular is live sport. 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.200 I don't imagine it would be hugely different here. 00:22:21.500 --> 00:22:25.300 So live sport is crucial to broadcast TV is my basic premise. 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:29.780 And in the book behind me, Streaming Wars, I write all about why that is. 00:22:29.780 --> 00:22:33.340 But also in that book I point out yeah obviously lots of streamers going to 00:22:33.340 --> 00:22:37.480 buy streaming rights I think it's really interesting now that some baseball 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:42.840 is going to Netflix the company that said it never wanted to do live sport suddenly 00:22:42.840 --> 00:22:44.220 doing quite a lot of live sport. 00:22:47.100 --> 00:22:50.020 So Netflix is going to have the home 00:22:50.020 --> 00:22:56.760 run derby opening night exclusive and special event games So not seasonal games 00:22:56.760 --> 00:23:03.280 Sunday Night Baseball is going to ESPN And then Sorry Sunday Night Baseball 00:23:03.280 --> 00:23:09.260 go from ESPN To NBC Universal And there'll be some on Peacock as well, 00:23:10.560 --> 00:23:15.660 Yeah Apple's just Gone from the whole collection Yeah. 00:23:18.208 --> 00:23:22.428 And, you know, okay. I mean, again, they decided that maybe it's better to put 00:23:22.428 --> 00:23:23.508 their money somewhere else. 00:23:25.368 --> 00:23:34.568 One thing about live sport is that you really don't get a lot of people watching it in reruns. 00:23:35.008 --> 00:23:38.328 You don't get a lot of people watching it the second time around. 00:23:39.808 --> 00:23:44.108 Please in the name, right? Yeah, well, there is certainly an implication there. 00:23:44.928 --> 00:23:49.308 And so, you know, it's one of the few things that you are forced, 00:23:49.488 --> 00:23:55.268 if you want to see it, you are forced to sit down at a given time and invest that time. 00:23:56.228 --> 00:24:01.028 Some of those statistics you just cited would be really interesting from a total 00:24:01.028 --> 00:24:08.068 viewership standpoint if you tried to put it up against a season of a particular TV show, 00:24:08.248 --> 00:24:12.048 be it Apple TV or, you know, one of the other pay services. 00:24:12.048 --> 00:24:14.828 You know because those you don't have you 00:24:14.828 --> 00:24:17.528 consume at your leisure and you have a lot of 00:24:17.528 --> 00:24:20.708 repeat traffic on those too especially things like 00:24:20.708 --> 00:24:23.788 star wars or the marvel universe that people just seem to 00:24:23.788 --> 00:24:26.808 fall in love with so you know the you 00:24:26.808 --> 00:24:30.528 know the old saying there are lies damn lies and statistics and you 00:24:30.528 --> 00:24:33.768 know i have to wonder if this might be i 00:24:33.768 --> 00:24:37.548 don't think this is an example of that well maybe 00:24:37.548 --> 00:24:41.428 a little wiggle room i know what you're getting at i do know what you're getting 00:24:41.428 --> 00:24:48.888 at um but i think the point is just how the numbers that live sport can draw 00:24:48.888 --> 00:24:54.908 in are just not the same as anything else but yes you're obviously right that is in a limited window, 00:24:55.948 --> 00:25:02.268 um just back to this mls deal because i think it's quite interesting so 200 00:25:02.268 --> 00:25:04.468 million for the 2026 season. 00:25:07.342 --> 00:25:14.862 Then $107.5 million for a transitional February to May 2027 sprint campaign. 00:25:15.022 --> 00:25:19.502 Because what's happening is the MLS timings are changing and it's going to come 00:25:19.502 --> 00:25:23.322 into line in sync with the European leagues. 00:25:23.642 --> 00:25:25.762 So they're moving things around a bit. 00:25:27.682 --> 00:25:30.422 So the season is going to begin in July instead of February. 00:25:30.422 --> 00:25:37.002 And then it's going to do $275 million to have the 27, 28, and 28, 29 season. 00:25:37.302 --> 00:25:44.162 So it's paying an extra $50 million or so than it would have otherwise over 00:25:44.162 --> 00:25:46.642 the same period, if that makes sense. 00:25:48.442 --> 00:25:54.842 And then we'll be leaving the deal. Basically, Julia Alexandra Puck put this rather nicely. 00:25:55.022 --> 00:25:59.122 She said, Apple is paying a premium for an expedited divorce. books. 00:26:03.516 --> 00:26:07.436 It's decided it wants to get out and it's throwing some money at the problem. Yeah. 00:26:08.336 --> 00:26:12.616 At this point. And it, you know, maybe just like, well, no, no, 00:26:12.676 --> 00:26:14.436 it better not go into a divorce discussion. 00:26:14.536 --> 00:26:17.416 No, that's not going to work. Let's just, I'll leave that alone. 00:26:20.236 --> 00:26:23.536 Sometimes the best thing to do is just cut your losses. 00:26:24.976 --> 00:26:27.816 I would say so. Well, and that is what Apple I think is doing. 00:26:27.976 --> 00:26:32.276 And also what they're obviously trying to do is get in that period of time, 00:26:32.276 --> 00:26:37.116 get as many people viewing it as possible by asking you not to pay extra? 00:26:40.456 --> 00:26:46.236 Possible. Possible. Well, that is what's happening because they're removing the paywall now. 00:26:47.116 --> 00:26:54.376 I'll be fascinated to see if, in doing so, either Apple TV gets more subscribers 00:26:54.376 --> 00:26:58.276 or if the league gets more interest because it's more accessible. 00:26:59.796 --> 00:27:05.236 You know will the people that pick up a new iphone and get apple tv free for 00:27:05.236 --> 00:27:10.336 a period of time suddenly tune into mls not sure. 00:27:13.956 --> 00:27:19.276 And well we just we're seeing right now we're witnessing a deal being renegotiated or Or, 00:27:19.636 --> 00:27:26.896 like you say, getting early divorce, could it be renegotiated yet again later 00:27:26.896 --> 00:27:29.736 if you see the uptick in viewership? 00:27:31.436 --> 00:27:36.896 That's a very interesting question. You know, nothing that means that this is an absolute. 00:27:37.556 --> 00:27:40.716 You know, it just means that this is what has been announced and you don't know. 00:27:40.716 --> 00:27:46.116 So, again, so many of these things we talk about and they get reported on, 00:27:46.276 --> 00:27:51.696 and we really don't know exactly what all the terms were. So... 00:27:52.849 --> 00:27:57.269 I mean, that's such an interesting question, because in 27, 28, 00:27:57.909 --> 00:28:01.409 early 2029, could we see something? 00:28:01.589 --> 00:28:05.669 Are we going to be sitting here chatting, going, oh, wow, Apple has just signed 00:28:05.669 --> 00:28:11.189 another five-year deal with MLS to show games on Apple TV away from the paywall? 00:28:11.809 --> 00:28:17.749 Yeah. I mean, maybe the 10-year deal may have looked good at the time for one, 00:28:17.829 --> 00:28:20.789 the other, or both. Now, maybe not so much. 00:28:21.609 --> 00:28:26.149 And so it would certainly appear that Apple is the one that is wanting the early 00:28:26.149 --> 00:28:28.649 divorce, but you don't know. 00:28:28.889 --> 00:28:33.289 And also think about if we'd had this conversation three years ago, 00:28:33.489 --> 00:28:38.269 what the sports streaming landscape looked like then as opposed to now. 00:28:38.529 --> 00:28:42.189 It is constantly, constantly evolving. Yeah. 00:28:42.830 --> 00:28:45.810 100% yeah that's absolutely right 00:28:45.810 --> 00:28:49.470 um and that's uh well this 00:28:49.470 --> 00:28:53.030 actually that leads the question i wanted to ask you actually which 00:28:53.030 --> 00:28:55.930 is where do you see apple in that 00:28:55.930 --> 00:29:01.330 landscape now that it's made these two shifts what what do you make of where 00:29:01.330 --> 00:29:06.510 plus the f1 deal that we've discussed where does apple sit in that world now 00:29:06.510 --> 00:29:13.910 i i feel a year to take is almost back to the the start of this conversation, Charlotte, 00:29:14.150 --> 00:29:18.110 I feel like there are long-term strategies that are going to play out. 00:29:18.250 --> 00:29:23.010 Whether Apple continues this, Apple has, at least in theory, 00:29:23.430 --> 00:29:27.290 maybe something that nobody else really has tapped into yet, 00:29:27.330 --> 00:29:34.750 and that's the spatial video thing that they could offer as an asset for a sport 00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:37.230 that wanted that kind of traction. 00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:43.470 Does that play well to the point? Yeah, or then no one actually owns an Apple, 00:29:43.470 --> 00:29:47.610 what's it called, the VR headset? Yeah, the Vision Pro, yeah. 00:29:47.910 --> 00:29:52.050 So there's definitely limited viewership, but, you know, again, 00:29:52.190 --> 00:29:56.350 we've seen Apple take things and twist them around or integrate them into other 00:29:56.350 --> 00:30:02.650 products. And so that's one that I feel like I'm not ready to discount it completely. 00:30:03.790 --> 00:30:08.010 You know, I know there are challenges with getting people to buy one and to utilize it. 00:30:08.010 --> 00:30:13.330 On the other hand, is one of the few things that people might sit down and say, 00:30:13.490 --> 00:30:20.250 I'm sticking this thing on my head because I want this superior experience of soccer. 00:30:20.570 --> 00:30:23.370 To feel like you're in the stadium. Yeah. Yeah. 00:30:23.950 --> 00:30:29.530 Yeah. So there's one more thing that we haven't even postulated here about. 00:30:30.790 --> 00:30:37.310 Yeah. I mean, it's a great point and it's a really interesting thought. if this kind of VR, AR... 00:30:38.977 --> 00:30:44.297 Products, whether from Apple or anywhere else, become more and more common? 00:30:44.357 --> 00:30:48.417 I'm not seeing much evidence of it yet, but it's obviously possible people are 00:30:48.417 --> 00:30:49.337 going to want that stuff. 00:30:50.977 --> 00:30:57.157 Could that be part, it will be part of a live streaming, live sport strategy. It just will. 00:30:58.657 --> 00:31:03.537 Well, and think what people pay now for season tickets to any of these sports. 00:31:04.317 --> 00:31:07.937 Sure. And it's crazy. I won't show you my bills. 00:31:10.017 --> 00:31:15.057 Well, and so if you back up your bills against an Apple Vision Pro, 00:31:15.297 --> 00:31:20.557 and maybe you couldn't watch every game, but if you had the opportunity to do 00:31:20.557 --> 00:31:24.357 some of it, it's one place people will spend money. 00:31:25.617 --> 00:31:29.277 Yeah maybe i mean there's other reasons to go to the ground but i think your 00:31:29.277 --> 00:31:36.457 basic point is a really strong one that that kind of product could like of all 00:31:36.457 --> 00:31:42.137 the places that that kind of product could benefit in streaming sports streaming 00:31:42.137 --> 00:31:45.077 and like watching live sport is right up there. 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:53.980 We'll see. And probably any company can pull that off. It probably is Apple 00:31:53.980 --> 00:31:55.300 now that I'm thinking about it. 00:31:56.380 --> 00:31:58.140 Yeah. Yeah. 00:31:59.960 --> 00:32:03.120 Again, it's staggering to think about the world three years ago, 00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:07.600 which was not that long ago, obviously, and just how many things have changed. 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:11.960 I mean, three years ago, we barely had heard the term ChatGPT. 00:32:13.060 --> 00:32:17.440 And now it's integrated into everything, and large language models are everywhere. 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:20.440 So what's the next three years going to bring? 00:32:22.020 --> 00:32:27.620 And what hardware, what software, what services, where are the streaming services going to go? 00:32:27.740 --> 00:32:31.080 How many more are going to consolidate or just simply disappear? 00:32:33.840 --> 00:32:38.680 That's why we do this show is to speculate on some of these things and try to 00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:40.200 keep our finger on the pulse. 00:32:41.500 --> 00:32:45.880 Absolutely, and Apple's in such an interesting part of the space. 00:32:47.280 --> 00:32:50.060 Yes yes what i do think is 00:32:50.060 --> 00:32:53.700 interesting in broadly though is 00:32:53.700 --> 00:33:00.840 how apple is positioned itself in live sport it's clearly interested it's gone 00:33:00.840 --> 00:33:06.740 all in on a couple of things i would say i would say friday night baseball has 00:33:06.740 --> 00:33:11.860 kind of worked right i think you know from what i've heard, 00:33:13.900 --> 00:33:17.300 Baseball is never going to bring in NFL numbers, but it's kind of worked. 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:19.620 People thought it was a nice thing to have on Apple TV. 00:33:19.980 --> 00:33:25.060 Fine. I don't think MLS has worked, and I think that is because the point I 00:33:25.060 --> 00:33:27.980 made earlier, because of the extra payroll. 00:33:30.500 --> 00:33:34.640 And it's just a very Apple approach, right? Test here, test. 00:33:34.740 --> 00:33:37.300 I'm shocked Apple agreed to a 10-year deal for the MLS. 00:33:39.000 --> 00:33:40.580 That's a big commitment. 00:33:43.271 --> 00:33:49.011 But, you know, because it does do this testing, dip your toe in here, 00:33:49.231 --> 00:33:52.971 step back there, oh, right, we're leaving this, but now we're going to get into Formula One. 00:33:55.371 --> 00:34:02.991 But if it had been a big success, they were locked in to enjoy the benefits 00:34:02.991 --> 00:34:05.671 of that success. Sure, the upside was big, yes, absolutely. Right. 00:34:05.911 --> 00:34:12.611 And so now the upside doesn't appear to be as big. And so they're going to pay extra to get out. 00:34:13.131 --> 00:34:16.051 But they're still going to end up at the end of the day, they're going to pay 00:34:16.051 --> 00:34:19.771 less than they would have if they had maintained the 10 year deal. 00:34:24.071 --> 00:34:24.431 Well, 00:34:27.611 --> 00:34:31.091 it's yes, because it's over a smaller period, but it's still paying more than 00:34:31.091 --> 00:34:32.731 it would have in that time period. 00:34:33.251 --> 00:34:39.051 Right. So it's an extra $50 million than the league would have otherwise got 00:34:39.051 --> 00:34:41.431 over that same period of time. 00:34:41.971 --> 00:34:47.551 Right. And now the league's free to go out and negotiate with other parties. 00:34:47.871 --> 00:34:53.811 Quite. Or come back to Apple and say, hey, you've helped us grow. 00:34:54.071 --> 00:34:56.811 We've seen growth. Do you still want to maintain the relationship, 00:34:56.811 --> 00:34:59.411 or should we go shop it? Right. 00:35:00.907 --> 00:35:03.127 Yeah, I suspect it'll be the latter, but yes, you're absolutely right. 00:35:03.367 --> 00:35:08.947 In the meantime, who knows what other sport will have turned up on TV Plus, on Apple TV. Yes. 00:35:10.307 --> 00:35:13.867 Yes. Yeah, so it's exciting times. Maybe we'll get some golf in there, 00:35:13.967 --> 00:35:18.167 Charles. I wouldn't mind that at all, Cheryl. I wouldn't mind that at all. 00:35:19.467 --> 00:35:23.507 Anything else before we wrap up that you wanted to touch on? Well, 00:35:23.627 --> 00:35:26.627 no, I think it's been a really interesting period that the 00:35:26.627 --> 00:35:29.647 sports broadcasting bit has become such a 00:35:29.647 --> 00:35:32.607 big part of the apple tv story uh you 00:35:32.607 --> 00:35:35.287 know we've just kind of accepted oh yeah this series is good 00:35:35.287 --> 00:35:38.167 this series you know whatever and now 00:35:38.167 --> 00:35:42.247 this is the next kind of element around the discussion i find i just find that 00:35:42.247 --> 00:35:47.107 really interesting and yeah we will we'll wrap up the morning show next time 00:35:47.107 --> 00:35:52.947 around which i think will be very good i'm hoping it finishes strong that sounds 00:35:52.947 --> 00:35:57.147 good that sounds good so charlotte where can folks find you, 00:35:58.307 --> 00:36:01.847 uh i'm at charlotte a henry across 00:36:01.847 --> 00:36:05.127 most social media platforms i am 00:36:05.127 --> 00:36:08.547 at the addition.net where you can get all sorts of stuff on the crossover of 00:36:08.547 --> 00:36:13.447 culture media and sport and my new book streaming was out now you can buy it 00:36:13.447 --> 00:36:20.187 anywhere it covers you know how the streaming world has grown what that means 00:36:20.187 --> 00:36:24.007 for us a little bit of what we'll get to in the future as well. 00:36:25.411 --> 00:36:28.731 Great. And how about you? 00:36:29.151 --> 00:36:34.331 Yeah, you can find me over at MacVoices.com. That's where you'll see lots of 00:36:34.331 --> 00:36:36.511 great interviews and lots of interesting content. 00:36:37.271 --> 00:36:41.551 We are in the process of releasing our Mac Voices holiday gift guide shows, 00:36:41.591 --> 00:36:45.611 which are always some of our most popular of the year because they allow us 00:36:45.611 --> 00:36:47.651 to connect with friends, talk 00:36:47.651 --> 00:36:51.511 about some stuff we love or stuff we can recommend, And just in general, 00:36:51.891 --> 00:36:55.691 celebrate being friends and being part of the Apple community. 00:36:56.251 --> 00:36:58.111 And on all the socials, you can use it. 00:37:01.071 --> 00:37:08.511 Well, you know what my gift guide recommendation will be? I've got a pretty good idea. Yeah. 00:37:10.251 --> 00:37:15.531 The AirPods Pro 3. If you can get Sam to deliver you some of those, that's a great present. 00:37:16.071 --> 00:37:20.231 There you go. There you go. So we've got a special gift guide pick in here. 00:37:21.451 --> 00:37:26.671 Until next time, we'll see you back here on TV Plus Talk, talking about Apple 00:37:26.671 --> 00:37:28.431 TV. Thanks for watching.