WEBVTT 00:00:11.813 --> 00:00:16.773 Welcome to TV Plus Talk. This is where we talk about all things Apple TV Plus. 00:00:17.333 --> 00:00:21.673 I'm Chuck Joyner. She is Charlotte Henry. Charlotte, great to see you. 00:00:21.713 --> 00:00:24.133 I am. Hello. I'm so pleased to see you. 00:00:24.773 --> 00:00:28.113 Well, shortly we're going to have to discuss if we're renaming our show or not. 00:00:28.353 --> 00:00:30.633 We're going to have to have this discussion live on air. 00:00:31.733 --> 00:00:34.853 Yeah, I was joking about that with someone the other day and thought, 00:00:35.033 --> 00:00:37.113 you know, well, it's a discussion we have to have. 00:00:37.913 --> 00:00:42.573 We'll have it shortly. Yeah, but before that, I'm just glad that you and I are 00:00:42.573 --> 00:00:48.153 able to connect because a little bit earlier, before this recording, 00:00:48.433 --> 00:00:53.533 there was a major Amazon Web Services outage that really took down an awful 00:00:53.533 --> 00:00:56.873 lot of services, including a lot of the streaming TV services. 00:00:58.113 --> 00:01:02.353 Yeah that's absolutely right it was it's 00:01:02.353 --> 00:01:05.173 amazing how one issue in one data 00:01:05.173 --> 00:01:08.453 center on the eastern seaboard can cause such 00:01:08.453 --> 00:01:11.193 classicismic effects i mean here in the 00:01:11.193 --> 00:01:16.833 uk i believe there were issues with banks uh did it hit apple tv i think it 00:01:16.833 --> 00:01:22.213 did at one point it definitely hit some of the other streaming services i logged 00:01:22.213 --> 00:01:26.033 into riverside which i now use to make podcasts and there was a warning there 00:01:26.033 --> 00:01:30.173 that there were some issues i mean there was not very much that wasn't here, 00:01:30.873 --> 00:01:34.013 yeah i had the same thing um i was asking 00:01:34.013 --> 00:01:37.013 uh the the amazon smart speaker whose name 00:01:37.013 --> 00:01:41.913 i shall not use um and kept getting the message i'm having trouble try again 00:01:41.913 --> 00:01:46.653 in a few minutes and after a few you know after about 20 minutes i gave up and 00:01:46.653 --> 00:01:51.873 then realized what was what was going on but i know i've there were some credit 00:01:51.873 --> 00:01:55.613 card processing issues at places i visited that particular over a day. 00:01:56.033 --> 00:01:57.953 So it hit a lot of different things. 00:02:00.793 --> 00:02:04.733 Look, you and I could do a whole separate show on this kind of nerdy stuff. 00:02:04.893 --> 00:02:07.873 But first of all, it's really interesting that it hit streaming services, 00:02:07.873 --> 00:02:10.453 because I think sometimes we forget, 00:02:11.589 --> 00:02:14.789 really that these are tech products not media products and 00:02:14.789 --> 00:02:19.149 something like that really reinforces it and secondly 00:02:19.149 --> 00:02:23.649 a step back and it's not really for this show but i want to chat about it with 00:02:23.649 --> 00:02:31.889 you anyway um is this idea of how dependent we are on such a limited number 00:02:31.889 --> 00:02:35.149 of services for data and connectivity. 00:02:35.629 --> 00:02:38.489 It's a huge, huge, huge issue. 00:02:39.689 --> 00:02:46.469 It is, and it shouldn't be a big surprise to anyone because the larger companies 00:02:46.469 --> 00:02:51.349 have squeezed out a lot of the smaller companies and because of efficiencies 00:02:51.349 --> 00:02:56.069 of scale and all the reasons that companies get big, no question. 00:02:56.489 --> 00:03:01.489 But at the same time, when everything is passing through those particular doorways 00:03:01.489 --> 00:03:05.789 and then there's a problem in those doorways, it's going to hit a lot of different 00:03:05.789 --> 00:03:07.209 people in a lot of different ways. 00:03:08.589 --> 00:03:15.049 Right. I mean, totally. I'm just trying to find out how much AWS of itself is worth. 00:03:15.349 --> 00:03:19.549 I mean, because there is a thing, isn't it? If you just spun off AWS from Amazon 00:03:19.549 --> 00:03:23.349 itself, it would still be one of the biggest companies in the world. 00:03:25.045 --> 00:03:28.945 This is how big – you and I know this because we're nerds and we follow this 00:03:28.945 --> 00:03:36.385 stuff, but I think yesterday it really hit people how much – how big this company is. 00:03:37.385 --> 00:03:42.405 And we had a discussion on my live show about the redundancy issues. 00:03:43.125 --> 00:03:49.305 And to what degree should a company spend money on redundancy? 00:03:49.505 --> 00:03:56.265 Or is it more cost effective for them to pay for an extra service or something else? 00:03:56.665 --> 00:04:01.285 Or is it better just to say every so often we're going to have an interruption? 00:04:02.245 --> 00:04:06.325 And, you know, but one of the problems with redundancies is that a lot of times 00:04:06.325 --> 00:04:10.305 the company that you hire to be redundant is also going to be using the very 00:04:10.305 --> 00:04:13.465 same service that took out your first line of service. 00:04:13.745 --> 00:04:18.885 Right. So, you know, at some point, you know, who do you go and do you start 00:04:18.885 --> 00:04:24.125 having to query, oh, are you using Amazon Web Services or are you using Company A? 00:04:24.385 --> 00:04:28.325 And then, well, I got to go find somebody that's using something other than 00:04:28.325 --> 00:04:32.305 Company A. and it may not be as easy as we're all making it out to be. 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:37.100 Right. And per my former employer, the Mac Observer, 00:04:37.280 --> 00:04:46.980 it does look like Apple does use AWS for TV Plus and a number of its other services, 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:48.920 which is kind of interesting. 00:04:49.060 --> 00:04:51.620 And I put this actually in my book, Streaming Wars, that, you know, 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.900 the streamers are having to work with other companies and rivals, 00:04:56.140 --> 00:04:59.820 especially Amazon, because it's so all powerful in other spaces. 00:04:59.820 --> 00:05:08.200 Just by the way, before we move on, AWS was worth apparently about $17.5 million, 00:05:08.200 --> 00:05:13.640 I think, in 2017. By 2020, that was about $6 billion or something. 00:05:14.260 --> 00:05:20.060 Like, we're talking, right, it's like we're talking one of the biggest businesses in the world. 00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:26.420 Sorry, $46 billion. It was 17, I'm getting my M's and my B's mixed up. 00:05:26.420 --> 00:05:33.460 It was 17.46 billion US dollars in 2017. That was its annual revenue in 2017. 00:05:33.500 --> 00:05:36.920 By 2020, that was 46 billion dollars. 00:05:38.155 --> 00:05:42.275 Wow. That's a lot of dollars, Chuck. That is a lot of dollars, 00:05:42.295 --> 00:05:50.215 but it also represents, obviously, a ridiculous growth, but an also ridiculous number of clients. 00:05:50.535 --> 00:05:54.035 And it's so, you know, it's the old thing. 00:05:54.855 --> 00:05:58.235 Yeah. You know, if AWS sneezes, everybody catches cold. 00:05:59.755 --> 00:06:03.255 Absolutely, including Apple TV+. Yeah. 00:06:04.675 --> 00:06:13.375 Right. Shall we? I guess we need to talk about F1, but I guess we need to get 00:06:13.375 --> 00:06:18.555 into the name change first so that we know what we're talking about while we go through this show. 00:06:18.995 --> 00:06:24.635 Yeah. You know, when I did the intro, it's like, do I call it Apple TV Plus or do I call it Apple TV? 00:06:25.015 --> 00:06:29.535 Well, for the sake of this transition period, I started with Apple TV Plus, 00:06:29.695 --> 00:06:37.675 but now it's Apple tv does it make a difference charlotte so apple tv plus has 00:06:37.675 --> 00:06:47.935 become apple tv and this means you can watch apple tv on your apple tv through the apple tv app. 00:06:50.209 --> 00:06:52.809 Yes? Yes. 00:06:55.269 --> 00:06:59.889 That's a bit confusing for consumers, no? You know, I've changed my opinion. 00:06:59.909 --> 00:07:02.269 Watching Apple TV through Apple TV on Apple TV? 00:07:03.029 --> 00:07:08.369 I changed my opinion since this started because I took a step back and said, 00:07:09.089 --> 00:07:12.749 if I'm watching... I'm just having a cup of tea and I'm going to let you go. 00:07:12.969 --> 00:07:16.449 I'm going to ponder this because I know my views on this. 00:07:19.189 --> 00:07:25.529 Well, if I'm watching a program, and the show I thought about was for no real 00:07:25.529 --> 00:07:28.769 good reason, The Boys, which is an Amazon property. 00:07:29.029 --> 00:07:31.569 Sorry. Yeah, I said that right. An Amazon property. 00:07:31.989 --> 00:07:40.229 I don't say that I'm watching The Boys on Fire TV or Amazon Prime. 00:07:40.449 --> 00:07:44.169 The most I might say is that I'm watching The Boys on Amazon, 00:07:44.289 --> 00:07:47.889 and it's on Amazon. But I never talk about what app I'm using, 00:07:48.049 --> 00:07:49.409 what the piece of hardware I'm using. 00:07:49.569 --> 00:07:54.529 Am I watching it through a Fire Stick? Am I watching it through a Chromecast? 00:07:54.629 --> 00:07:57.449 Am I watching it through Apple TV, the box? 00:07:57.849 --> 00:07:59.729 It's just I'm watching this program, 00:07:59.729 --> 00:08:03.849 and I might mention that it's on this streaming service or network. 00:08:04.389 --> 00:08:09.469 And so are we really getting excited? Are we just being nerds like you referred 00:08:09.469 --> 00:08:12.869 to earlier about this and splitting hairs? 00:08:13.929 --> 00:08:16.649 And eddie q came out and said that you know well 00:08:16.649 --> 00:08:19.769 everybody calls it just apple or apple tv anyway so you 00:08:19.769 --> 00:08:22.949 know why not drop the plus okay that that's 00:08:22.949 --> 00:08:26.329 fair so i don't feel like it's not 00:08:26.329 --> 00:08:29.509 as big a deal as i thought it was but you may 00:08:29.509 --> 00:08:37.309 differ on that i think you make some very fair points actually you know it's 00:08:37.309 --> 00:08:43.149 only really apple where we say well we make this joke right but i think part 00:08:43.149 --> 00:08:47.529 of that is because the example you used on Amazon everything is called something different. 00:08:49.084 --> 00:08:54.044 The service is called Prime Video. The stick is called the fire. 00:08:55.104 --> 00:09:00.704 They're different things. I think there's something very bizarre and very un-Apple, 00:09:01.864 --> 00:09:07.204 about even the potential for this confusion, even the potential for nerds to 00:09:07.204 --> 00:09:10.484 make jokes about it. Let's be serious. 00:09:11.404 --> 00:09:14.404 I know we always do this. What would Steve do? 00:09:14.404 --> 00:09:18.604 But seriously would steve 00:09:18.604 --> 00:09:21.804 jobs have three linked products called basically 00:09:21.804 --> 00:09:28.484 the same thing come on uh probably not but you know that was then this is now 00:09:28.484 --> 00:09:35.984 and so but it's dumb well but look let's let's let's be fair and this is not 00:09:35.984 --> 00:09:39.004 necessarily these are not necessarily No, we're not here to be fair. 00:09:39.444 --> 00:09:41.844 But it felt good. Thank you. 00:09:42.384 --> 00:09:47.024 But this is the same company that named their Pageway Out program Pages and 00:09:47.024 --> 00:09:50.344 their Excel spreadsheet competitor Numbers. 00:09:52.004 --> 00:09:56.504 They have a tendency to try to – you can look at it two ways. 00:09:56.584 --> 00:10:00.664 You can look at it as that's really confusing, but you can also look at it as 00:10:00.664 --> 00:10:05.984 a common sense, top-of-mind kind of thing so that I don't have to remember the 00:10:05.984 --> 00:10:08.784 name of the product. I just sort of remember what it is I'm trying to do. 00:10:09.304 --> 00:10:14.204 And I'm not defending it. I guess I've come to understand it a little bit more. 00:10:14.444 --> 00:10:19.884 It still creates confusing if you try to get – if you do a Google search and 00:10:19.884 --> 00:10:25.704 try to get help about the numbers program online. 00:10:26.284 --> 00:10:34.024 But at the same time, it doesn't not work. I think it's a much bigger problem for this. Is it? 00:10:35.484 --> 00:10:39.384 Is it? Well, try searching for Apple TV help now. 00:10:41.837 --> 00:10:45.457 What on earth is going to come up? Okay, that's fair. 00:10:45.997 --> 00:10:50.997 That's fair. But we are talking about a streaming service. 00:10:51.217 --> 00:10:59.197 So, you know, the Apple TV app, the Apple TV box, the Apple TV service. 00:11:02.337 --> 00:11:05.937 Right. I just think for your ordinary viewer, 00:11:06.377 --> 00:11:12.757 it's a bit – well, in some ways it's not, because I suspect the Apple TV viewer 00:11:12.757 --> 00:11:18.517 is only going to worry, like most people don't have an Apple TV box, right? 00:11:19.177 --> 00:11:25.897 And you can argue, and it's a bit naughty of Apple, that having the app called 00:11:25.897 --> 00:11:30.717 TV, which is the way that most people use the service, now called Apple TV, 00:11:31.397 --> 00:11:33.857 that kind of makes sense, right? 00:11:34.437 --> 00:11:37.597 And people will be like, oh, it's called TV. 00:11:37.597 --> 00:11:46.277 That's where I watch the TV service in that way it kind of makes sense but and it will annoy, 00:11:46.877 --> 00:11:53.057 lots of the other rivals because Apple always has this thing that like the TV 00:11:53.057 --> 00:11:57.637 like that it wasn't giving undue prominence to its own shows within the app 00:11:57.637 --> 00:12:00.117 except it's now called them all the same thing. 00:12:03.515 --> 00:12:07.475 And we all have a bad habit of just taking a snapshot in time, 00:12:07.635 --> 00:12:10.535 saying right now, and this is the way it is, and boy, isn't this confusing. 00:12:11.115 --> 00:12:17.735 And what if Apple releases an update to the Apple TV box next week and calls 00:12:17.735 --> 00:12:22.535 it the, I don't know, the Apple Excelsior or something? 00:12:22.735 --> 00:12:25.135 And, okay, so they rename the box. 00:12:25.515 --> 00:12:28.175 So then we are back to a little more differentiation. 00:12:28.675 --> 00:12:30.895 Maybe they'll call it Apple Watch. Oh, wait. 00:12:33.575 --> 00:12:38.255 That was very good. I hadn't thought about that. You know, so again, 00:12:38.435 --> 00:12:42.055 I'm not sure, I'm not even sure what we're discussing because look, 00:12:42.155 --> 00:12:44.855 it's the way it is and it's their service to name. 00:12:45.855 --> 00:12:52.155 But it also definitely is one more time that the word Apple is going to come out of your mouth. 00:12:54.175 --> 00:12:59.695 Oh, yeah, for sure. And I just think it's a very bizarre decision. 00:12:59.695 --> 00:13:05.175 Like, since this service started, I always slightly had a running joke about the naming situation. 00:13:05.275 --> 00:13:08.895 And now they've just kind of taken it to the next level. 00:13:11.275 --> 00:13:16.335 So we... You know what, fair play. Yeah, well, and so let's have the more important 00:13:16.335 --> 00:13:18.835 discussion. Do we change the name of the show? 00:13:21.095 --> 00:13:26.615 Right. Okay, well, so case for the defense, i.e. 00:13:26.675 --> 00:13:31.395 Not changing it, we are adding to the discussion about Apple TV. 00:13:31.635 --> 00:13:35.915 So we are Apple TV plus this lovely discussion. 00:13:38.955 --> 00:13:44.415 We are Apple TV plus some talk, right? But ultimately we are talking about the 00:13:44.415 --> 00:13:47.595 service Apple TV, right? 00:13:48.688 --> 00:13:51.968 So maybe we now have to be just Apple TV talk. 00:13:52.728 --> 00:13:58.848 And we know how Apple does not like people to use the word Apple in their projects. 00:13:59.568 --> 00:14:03.368 So I would hate to get a cease and desist order. And we'll get very cross-letters if we're wrong. 00:14:03.588 --> 00:14:07.148 Yeah. So I'm kind of, I'm with you. I'm kind of inclined to just say, 00:14:07.328 --> 00:14:09.868 you know, this is TV plus talk. 00:14:11.808 --> 00:14:19.048 And recognizing it's in. TV talk. TV talk. But, you know, then that sounds like 00:14:19.048 --> 00:14:24.488 we could be talking about, like, you know, the daily morning show or something. That doesn't. 00:14:25.408 --> 00:14:31.008 Yes, you're right. Yeah. So we have our name. We're really taking this behind 00:14:31.008 --> 00:14:32.628 the scenes here. Well, yeah. 00:14:33.948 --> 00:14:36.928 I would think we'll probably stick with our name. But if not, 00:14:37.028 --> 00:14:40.368 folks, we'll let you know and let you know what our thinking is. Yeah. 00:14:41.648 --> 00:14:46.688 No, it's such a good point you make, though. So because we definitely don't 00:14:46.688 --> 00:14:51.988 want any cease and desist letters, but we are talking about Apple TV. Right. 00:14:53.368 --> 00:14:57.888 The programs. I suppose also we do discuss the hardware and software, to be fair. 00:14:57.988 --> 00:15:02.468 Well, yeah, and the service from a business perspective. So, yeah. Right. 00:15:03.208 --> 00:15:07.108 Okay, but now look. But see, you're contributing to the problem here because 00:15:07.108 --> 00:15:10.828 before we started this discussion, you said that we're going to talk about F1. 00:15:12.448 --> 00:15:16.908 But we have multiple f1 stories to talk about so which story were you talking about. 00:15:18.628 --> 00:15:21.308 First of all you're always right to say 00:15:21.308 --> 00:15:28.588 that i'm contributing to the problem whatever the problem is fact well let's 00:15:28.588 --> 00:15:35.808 start with the fact that apple has won the rights in the u.s on its TV service 00:15:35.808 --> 00:15:40.628 to be the exclusive outlet for Formula 1 racing. 00:15:40.628 --> 00:15:43.668 I think it's five seasons from 2026. 00:15:45.304 --> 00:15:48.644 This is quite a big deal. I wrote about it on my newsletter yesterday because 00:15:48.644 --> 00:15:51.564 it's a big deal for a few different reasons. 00:15:53.004 --> 00:15:57.024 And if you don't mind me nerding out about sports media for a minute, I'll dig into them. 00:15:57.804 --> 00:16:03.504 Part of the reason it's significant for our show and our audience is because 00:16:03.504 --> 00:16:10.444 this is the first time I think that anything on Apple TV, 00:16:11.604 --> 00:16:17.004 is particularly different depending on where you are in the world. 00:16:18.104 --> 00:16:23.324 Basically, I'm in the UK, you're in the US. What we have on TV, 00:16:23.324 --> 00:16:29.024 the service and the app is, well, not the app actually, the TV service is exactly the same. 00:16:29.364 --> 00:16:33.364 My TV, Apple TV streaming service looks exactly like yours, right? 00:16:33.564 --> 00:16:36.944 We both get the morning show at the same time. We both get Ted Lasso at the 00:16:36.944 --> 00:16:38.864 same time, blah, blah, blah, right? 00:16:40.804 --> 00:16:47.384 Now, if I, on a Formula One Grand Prix weekend, our services will look different. 00:16:47.784 --> 00:16:51.064 You will be able to watch it and I won't. And that, I think, 00:16:51.144 --> 00:16:56.624 is quite a big step forward from where Apple TV launched, right? 00:16:57.764 --> 00:17:03.264 Because it was meant to be this uniform service and it was focused on originals 00:17:03.264 --> 00:17:05.464 and therefore everything was the same. 00:17:06.648 --> 00:17:12.188 And that is no longer going to be the case. So I think that is significant first. 00:17:12.608 --> 00:17:15.948 Second of all, it's significant because it's Apple putting, I mean, 00:17:16.048 --> 00:17:21.568 it's not quite pocket change for Apple, but as far as Apple goes, 00:17:21.648 --> 00:17:26.968 it's not huge money for some sports rights, which is interesting. 00:17:27.228 --> 00:17:33.688 It's apparently worth about $700 or $750 million, we think, this deal kind of 00:17:33.688 --> 00:17:41.608 vibe. So, you know, it's not AWS revenue money, but it's meaningful money. 00:17:43.308 --> 00:17:47.068 And third, it's interesting because of the obvious time, which I think you want 00:17:47.068 --> 00:17:49.408 to talk about with F1 the movie. 00:17:50.748 --> 00:17:56.088 And it's kind of linked all of that catalogue together, which I think is also interesting. 00:17:58.195 --> 00:18:03.315 I think this is very interesting because of, and let's throw into the mix, 00:18:03.575 --> 00:18:06.075 the MLS deal that Apple already has. 00:18:07.195 --> 00:18:12.935 Right. So, you know, it feels like Apple took a, sorry for the pun I'm about 00:18:12.935 --> 00:18:15.195 to do, but Apple took a swing at baseball. 00:18:15.575 --> 00:18:21.155 And now it's, whether they stepped away or baseball stepped away or they both stepped away. 00:18:22.095 --> 00:18:25.975 But the MLS thing seems to be working. Now they've got F1. 00:18:27.635 --> 00:18:31.395 And we've talked so much about Apple playing the long game so it feels like 00:18:31.395 --> 00:18:33.255 they're trying to build their credibility, 00:18:34.015 --> 00:18:40.635 it also, in hindsight, it felt like that Apple was stepping into sports streaming 00:18:40.635 --> 00:18:44.415 at a time that it was still a little bit, not exactly experimental, 00:18:44.635 --> 00:18:49.635 but a little bit experimental and so now they're cutting their teeth and developing 00:18:49.635 --> 00:18:54.935 reputation on some sports that may not be quite as prevalent here in the U.S. 00:18:56.755 --> 00:18:59.895 Frankly, both of them seem to be a lot more prevalent in the UK. 00:19:01.075 --> 00:19:04.515 So that brings a global perspective into this. 00:19:05.335 --> 00:19:07.735 I think it's going to be really interesting to see how it goes. 00:19:07.855 --> 00:19:11.015 I think it's going to be very interesting to see exactly what, 00:19:11.135 --> 00:19:17.775 if anything, Apple brings to the F1 experience for the US viewer. 00:19:21.475 --> 00:19:24.595 Yeah, correct me if I'm wrong. Have I missed an announcement that the Apple 00:19:24.595 --> 00:19:26.015 baseball deal is coming to an end? 00:19:27.948 --> 00:19:34.048 I didn't think I had. Maybe I missed it, but I thought there was something that they were backing off. 00:19:35.848 --> 00:19:37.388 Maybe I have missed it. Oh, maybe. 00:19:40.308 --> 00:19:44.328 I think the point, though, which you're getting at, which is right, 00:19:45.228 --> 00:19:49.808 which is that it hasn't been – I mean, it's done okay Friday Night Baseball. 00:19:49.988 --> 00:19:56.668 It hasn't been a rip-roaring success, has it? you know people like as i it's 00:19:56.668 --> 00:19:59.628 very different in the us but people like their local announcers and all that 00:19:59.628 --> 00:20:03.788 kind of thing with baseball um in terms of the mls. 00:20:06.728 --> 00:20:13.368 Hmm it's it is what it is right like it's a global deal which goes to my earlier point, 00:20:14.628 --> 00:20:18.668 about apple really wanting to be the exclusive home of stuff wherever it does 00:20:18.668 --> 00:20:23.288 it And so this again makes this deal for Formula One very different. 00:20:23.588 --> 00:20:27.908 The other thing you're totally correct about is that Formula One, 00:20:28.028 --> 00:20:33.888 and indeed obviously football, are much more popular where I am than where you are. 00:20:34.928 --> 00:20:39.068 Which brings me to my sort of other point about this, which is, 00:20:39.208 --> 00:20:41.228 is this a good deal for Formula One? 00:20:42.228 --> 00:20:50.248 They've got some good money, but the sport now in a country in which it's trying 00:20:50.248 --> 00:20:55.668 to grow has disappeared behind a paywall and a paywall that is not particularly, 00:20:55.668 --> 00:20:57.888 you know, by various standards. 00:20:58.128 --> 00:21:01.048 It's not that popular like Apple TV. It's okay. 00:21:01.448 --> 00:21:03.308 It does all right, but it's not Netflix. 00:21:04.848 --> 00:21:09.268 And so are they potentially losing audience by doing this deal with Apple? 00:21:11.636 --> 00:21:15.796 And I think, you know, that will be a very interesting thing to watch play out. 00:21:16.156 --> 00:21:22.916 And as far as I understand it, so with MLS, you have to pay an extra thing to get all the games. 00:21:23.336 --> 00:21:27.296 Some they put through a normal subscription. Some you can watch as, 00:21:27.576 --> 00:21:28.836 you know, you have to pay extra for. 00:21:29.076 --> 00:21:33.196 Some games I think in the League's Cup are actually on a TV channel as well in the US. 00:21:33.336 --> 00:21:43.296 But anyway, this is going to be part of your TV subscription as far as I understand it. and, 00:21:44.683 --> 00:21:49.263 you know, everything will be behind this paywall, which could work, 00:21:49.263 --> 00:21:50.683 but also because they'll get 00:21:50.683 --> 00:21:53.803 anyone in the US that cares about Formula 1 will have to have Apple TV. 00:21:55.583 --> 00:21:59.803 But it's much harder to get, I was going to say drive-by fans, 00:22:00.223 --> 00:22:04.763 but it's much harder to get new fans coming along. 00:22:06.683 --> 00:22:12.623 Okay, so I'm not the student of sports broadcasting that you are. 00:22:13.043 --> 00:22:19.083 My perception is that Formula One, like a number of other, I'm even going to 00:22:19.083 --> 00:22:20.743 say third, fourth tier sports, 00:22:21.803 --> 00:22:26.863 yes, they got some television coverage in the U.S., but it was always at the 00:22:26.863 --> 00:22:32.083 convenience of the broadcast networks or the sports streaming networks, 00:22:32.403 --> 00:22:33.943 the sports cable networks. 00:22:33.943 --> 00:22:38.403 It was seldom a major event. It was seldom comprehensive coverage. 00:22:39.123 --> 00:22:42.163 And that's what I'm interested to see here. 00:22:42.163 --> 00:22:49.183 How much of a priority will Apple TV Plus give to some of these events? 00:22:49.183 --> 00:22:57.103 So it feels like, to my way of thinking, that it's a better deal for F1 versus 00:22:57.103 --> 00:22:58.563 what they've been doing in the U.S. 00:22:58.643 --> 00:23:03.803 Because they were treated like second- or third-class citizens. 00:23:05.303 --> 00:23:10.623 Here, they're going to have a dedicated place on a streaming service for their sport. 00:23:11.123 --> 00:23:16.823 And so that, to me, is a bigger deal than just trying to, you know, 00:23:17.063 --> 00:23:23.323 scrape through and go to ESPN or ESPN2 or ESPN3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 00:23:23.423 --> 00:23:25.763 8, 9, 10 and say, what can you do for us? 00:23:26.023 --> 00:23:29.643 Yeah, ESPN+, ESPN Double+, you know, whatever. 00:23:30.063 --> 00:23:35.123 I mean, after a while, you just burn out on all of it. And so, 00:23:35.363 --> 00:23:37.903 you know, the fact that they will be a –, 00:23:38.886 --> 00:23:43.966 Perhaps not a centerpiece of Apple TV, but they will be a much bigger deal on 00:23:43.966 --> 00:23:46.866 Apple TV than they would have been to some of the others. 00:23:47.706 --> 00:23:52.466 And I'm sorry if that offends some people, but that's the way I see it. 00:23:52.506 --> 00:23:54.686 I actually think that's a great point that I hadn't considered, 00:23:54.686 --> 00:24:00.426 that surely it will be to Apple's incentive to make this a success, right? 00:24:00.646 --> 00:24:03.146 They want to be able to show that they can do this stuff. 00:24:04.566 --> 00:24:08.366 And I think it is true that they will put real resources into it. 00:24:08.366 --> 00:24:11.526 I'm sure that's right and F1 00:24:11.526 --> 00:24:14.486 will also make sure that real resources go into it because everyone wants 00:24:14.486 --> 00:24:17.986 it to be a success I think that's a really really good 00:24:17.986 --> 00:24:20.726 point that I you know to be honest I hadn't considered it and I think 00:24:20.726 --> 00:24:23.446 you're right about that and the other thing is 00:24:23.446 --> 00:24:26.286 I've been listening to lots of discussions over the last couple of days 00:24:26.286 --> 00:24:29.986 about the start 00:24:29.986 --> 00:24:33.266 of the NBA season and how in America basketball 00:24:33.266 --> 00:24:36.146 is all over the place now right it's on three four 00:24:36.146 --> 00:24:40.806 five different services isn't it um football 00:24:40.806 --> 00:24:43.446 yes basketball i'm not sure because i'm not a 00:24:43.446 --> 00:24:47.626 basketball person i believe so i think there's some on espn some on nbc some 00:24:47.626 --> 00:24:51.326 on amazon prime video now it's every it's all different places depending on 00:24:51.326 --> 00:24:56.306 someone peacock depending on what day of the week it is at least with this if 00:24:56.306 --> 00:25:01.346 you are a formula one fan and it's race day there's only one place you need 00:25:01.346 --> 00:25:02.646 to go It's not hard to find it. 00:25:04.006 --> 00:25:08.006 If you're a fan in the US, you know where to go. It's dumb. 00:25:08.606 --> 00:25:12.946 And that could be a good thing for the sport. 00:25:13.726 --> 00:25:18.826 The one thing I want to get your take on is this link up with the movie. 00:25:20.134 --> 00:25:23.774 What's your take on all that? We should say that it's coming to streaming. 00:25:24.234 --> 00:25:30.854 It'll be on not until 12th of December, 2025, but it's going to eventually land on Apple TV. 00:25:31.474 --> 00:25:36.934 And then, you know, and then the next year we'll get the Formula One actual races. 00:25:37.614 --> 00:25:39.614 What's your take on the catalog tie-in? 00:25:40.934 --> 00:25:46.294 I think it makes perfect sense. And it makes perfect sense from both sides that 00:25:46.294 --> 00:25:53.114 F1, the movie is giving F1 racing a bigger visibility in the U.S. than it's had. 00:25:53.954 --> 00:25:57.894 Not just because of the star power of the cast, but also just because of the 00:25:57.894 --> 00:25:59.994 quality and content of the movie. 00:26:00.594 --> 00:26:04.414 And so, you know, I think it's perfectly logical. 00:26:04.654 --> 00:26:09.674 I think it's a very opportune time for F1 racing the organization to make a 00:26:09.674 --> 00:26:11.034 bigger push into the U.S. 00:26:11.154 --> 00:26:15.554 Because now they've got dramatized in a positive fashion. 00:26:15.974 --> 00:26:20.794 So the whole thing to me makes perfect sense. And because Apple was so instrumental, 00:26:21.674 --> 00:26:27.434 in doing the F1 movie, that they would be a logical partner because they clearly, 00:26:28.374 --> 00:26:32.734 through the making of the movie, they have come to understand F1 better than 00:26:32.734 --> 00:26:38.154 maybe some of the other networks who see it as a product to be put on, 00:26:38.374 --> 00:26:40.594 to be broadcast or put out on the shelf, 00:26:41.154 --> 00:26:43.534 as opposed to building something around it. 00:26:44.274 --> 00:26:46.174 So again, I think it's a win-win. 00:26:48.583 --> 00:26:52.023 Yeah, I agree with all of that. And it's clear. 00:26:52.183 --> 00:26:54.803 I mean, look, you take all these PR comments with a pinch of salt, 00:26:54.823 --> 00:26:59.523 but they did reference in the announcement that they'd been working together 00:26:59.523 --> 00:27:02.303 on the movie and therefore this was an extension of the partnership. 00:27:03.463 --> 00:27:09.083 So that just endorses everything you've just said. All I would say is surely 00:27:09.083 --> 00:27:13.723 if it was going to go anywhere on streaming, Formula One should really be going 00:27:13.723 --> 00:27:16.663 on Netflix alongside Drive to Survive. 00:27:18.143 --> 00:27:25.403 But as I put this in my newsletter, but obviously Netflix, it likes doing one-off sporting events. 00:27:25.963 --> 00:27:29.043 We can put WWE, I think, slightly in a different category. 00:27:29.823 --> 00:27:34.403 But it doesn't want to be the place that has to run a season of a sport. 00:27:35.163 --> 00:27:40.503 And so that's clearly part of the reason. Because Netflix has afforded $750 00:27:40.503 --> 00:27:44.003 million to buy the rights. 00:27:44.003 --> 00:27:51.943 Of course it could have. but I don't think it likes having to do this weekly 00:27:51.943 --> 00:27:55.343 kind of thing and so obviously didn't get involved. 00:27:56.630 --> 00:28:03.590 But to me, that would have been the most logical home of Formula One racing on a streaming service. 00:28:03.890 --> 00:28:08.450 But Apple, it's a close second. It's on the podium, let's put it that way. So it does make sense. 00:28:09.410 --> 00:28:12.730 Okay, so now you gave me something to think about because I hadn't considered 00:28:12.730 --> 00:28:16.990 that relationship potentially with Netflix. 00:28:18.470 --> 00:28:20.190 Right. But I'm with you. I don't 00:28:20.190 --> 00:28:23.590 think Netflix, right now, they don't seem to be showing a great deal. 00:28:25.150 --> 00:28:30.310 Their sports programming seems to be limited to things like that sort of sports. 00:28:33.370 --> 00:28:39.790 Sports entertainment as opposed to pure sports competition and so and one-off 00:28:39.790 --> 00:28:45.510 events right yeah and one-off events yeah where they can make a big splash and 00:28:45.510 --> 00:28:46.830 you and i both christmas day, 00:28:47.650 --> 00:28:51.170 yeah and you and i both know that a lot of that is driven so they're hoping 00:28:51.170 --> 00:28:55.930 that they will get subscribers who will then either stick around or forget to 00:28:55.930 --> 00:29:00.090 unsubscribe and create a little revenue bump every year. 00:29:00.710 --> 00:29:06.770 And so if somebody somewhere with a whole lot of spreadsheets is doing the analysis 00:29:06.770 --> 00:29:10.610 and saying, this is what it's going to cost us, this is what it'll get us, 00:29:10.770 --> 00:29:13.250 it's a net positive right now, so we'll do it. 00:29:15.229 --> 00:29:18.489 But would it have been a net positive for F1 racing? 00:29:19.829 --> 00:29:24.889 I kind of doubt it. Look, more people have Netflix than they have Apple TV. 00:29:26.189 --> 00:29:32.549 Who knows? I suspect that we don't know. It's going to be fascinating to watch 00:29:32.549 --> 00:29:33.909 how it plays out next season. 00:29:34.729 --> 00:29:38.949 I won't have it here. Formula One has a relationship with Sky Sports here, 00:29:39.749 --> 00:29:43.569 which actually is another point I've heard on a podcast discussing this, 00:29:43.569 --> 00:29:51.289 is it might be that Apple takes the commentary from here in the UK, the Sky commentary. 00:29:52.469 --> 00:29:56.749 So that's another thing just to bear in mind, that Apple might not do all the 00:29:56.749 --> 00:30:01.369 production, which it does do on Friday Night Baseball. 00:30:01.709 --> 00:30:04.789 Well, there are two things that I'm going to be really interested to see, 00:30:04.909 --> 00:30:08.289 and maybe I haven't read enough or paid quite enough attention to this. 00:30:08.409 --> 00:30:14.909 But number one, to your point, Are they going to take the local UK broadcast 00:30:14.909 --> 00:30:20.049 announcers, or are they going to supply American announcers for an American audience? 00:30:20.629 --> 00:30:25.969 Or would they run them both and let you decide which commentators you want? 00:30:25.969 --> 00:30:29.309 The other thing, though, that I'm not quite sure, we're talking about, 00:30:29.349 --> 00:30:31.029 you just mentioned race day. 00:30:32.269 --> 00:30:37.049 Because of time zone differences and all, is it possible that they would allow 00:30:37.049 --> 00:30:40.329 replays or on-demand streaming of races? 00:30:41.911 --> 00:30:45.271 Oh, I'm sure you would have to. It'd be crazy not to, wouldn't it? 00:30:45.891 --> 00:30:50.311 I would think so, but I'm looking at it from a very US-centric point of view. 00:30:52.591 --> 00:30:56.031 Yeah, but it's not US-centric. Well, it's US-centric in the sense it's only 00:30:56.031 --> 00:30:58.971 going to be relevant in the US because it's only going to be shown in the US. 00:30:59.671 --> 00:31:05.351 But the issues of time zone is correct wherever you are, if you're a Formula 00:31:05.351 --> 00:31:07.311 One fan, because races are all over the world. 00:31:08.391 --> 00:31:11.231 They go to all different places and all different times of the day 00:31:11.231 --> 00:31:15.091 i would be amazed if 00:31:15.091 --> 00:31:18.691 you there wasn't you know on demand viewing and 00:31:18.691 --> 00:31:21.491 of course we're talking only about race day because 00:31:21.491 --> 00:31:24.391 that's the only thing perhaps not very big uh formula 00:31:24.391 --> 00:31:30.631 one fans like you and i even notice but the whole thing about uh formula is 00:31:30.631 --> 00:31:35.131 it does go over a weekend there's practices that is qualifying some of the Grand 00:31:35.131 --> 00:31:39.571 Prix's have sprint races too so there's quite a lot of different elements that 00:31:39.571 --> 00:31:42.091 go into showing Formula 1 not just one race. 00:31:43.334 --> 00:31:48.874 And that could be a nice little extra package for whether it's pay for package 00:31:48.874 --> 00:31:54.054 or not for real F1 fans that if you want to see the race, you do this. 00:31:54.174 --> 00:31:57.174 If you want to see everything else, you do that. 00:31:58.174 --> 00:32:00.974 I'm thinking, frankly. I would be amazed if they separated it. 00:32:01.214 --> 00:32:05.914 I would, too. I would, too. But in relation to that, I'm thinking about the 00:32:05.914 --> 00:32:09.234 way the Masters handles their coverage, the Masters Golf Tournament. 00:32:09.234 --> 00:32:15.794 Where, you know, if you use the app, you know, they have a number of different 00:32:15.794 --> 00:32:18.574 streams of the same tournament. 00:32:19.014 --> 00:32:22.394 Now, I realize F1 racing is a little bit different, but, you know, 00:32:22.474 --> 00:32:28.234 the idea that there can be these innovations and coverages for different sports 00:32:28.234 --> 00:32:35.794 that focus on the particulars and the quirks of that sport is really interesting. 00:32:35.794 --> 00:32:39.074 And I feel like there's an opportunity here for that to be explored for F1. 00:32:40.714 --> 00:32:43.634 Yeah i would imagine a lot of that will come 00:32:43.634 --> 00:32:46.394 through data and analytics and that 00:32:46.394 --> 00:32:49.194 kind of thing that may show uh viewers that 00:32:49.194 --> 00:32:53.774 really want to dive into it deeply i would imagine that will be the case yeah 00:32:53.774 --> 00:32:58.714 hey i did before we get too far gone here i wanted to let you know that i was 00:32:58.714 --> 00:33:03.734 not hallucinating um i put a nine to five mac article in it i sent it to charlotte 00:33:03.734 --> 00:33:07.314 in our in our google sheet, and I'll put it in the show notes for everyone. 00:33:08.474 --> 00:33:13.854 But according to a report, Apple has decided to exit its relationship with Major League Baseball. 00:33:14.905 --> 00:33:19.785 So, and this came from a nine to five Mac article, um, August 19th. 00:33:20.405 --> 00:33:25.205 So there you go. Oh no. Yeah. This was, and you're absolutely right. It was from August. 00:33:25.325 --> 00:33:29.985 I think we did discuss it, but then it was, um, a Yahoo sports reporter and 00:33:29.985 --> 00:33:30.965 you're absolutely right. 00:33:31.345 --> 00:33:35.145 So we didn't miss it. We just can't remember anything because I'm getting old. 00:33:37.105 --> 00:33:40.125 Um, no, wait a minute, Charlotte, you're not getting old. you're just 00:33:40.125 --> 00:33:43.285 super busy because you have a book uh that's 00:33:43.285 --> 00:33:46.945 out in the uk and is about to come out in the u.s i do 00:33:46.945 --> 00:33:50.165 it's behind me it's called streaming wars do i 00:33:50.165 --> 00:33:53.065 will be very keen to talk about that in a minute let's just finish off though 00:33:53.065 --> 00:33:56.105 because i want there's one more thing i want to get your take on because it's 00:33:56.105 --> 00:34:02.425 a very u.s centric it's only relevant again in the u.s and that is apple have 00:34:02.425 --> 00:34:04.605 done a bundling deal with peacock 00:34:04.605 --> 00:34:08.385 now rebundling is a topic i've written about and i'm interested in. 00:34:09.365 --> 00:34:16.345 So Peacock, Apple TV, they're not the biggest standalone services, 00:34:16.745 --> 00:34:19.205 kind of get why they want to work together in the US. 00:34:20.385 --> 00:34:26.045 One person I saw on social media asked a really good question, 00:34:26.645 --> 00:34:29.405 which was, what happens if you have Apple One? 00:34:33.305 --> 00:34:40.665 I.e. you've got a bundle already of Apple services at a set price. 00:34:41.925 --> 00:34:47.005 If you want Peacock as well, do you have no choice but to buy it separately? 00:34:47.345 --> 00:34:51.285 Do you have to pay for it twice and have paid twice for Apple TV? 00:34:52.405 --> 00:34:56.325 It's an interesting question. I don't know if maybe in the US when you go to 00:34:56.325 --> 00:35:01.785 sign up, they'll now add an option, Apple TV with Peacock. 00:35:01.865 --> 00:35:04.905 And you pay a little bit extra as part of your Apple One bundle? 00:35:05.165 --> 00:35:06.725 It just struck me as an interesting question. 00:35:07.265 --> 00:35:12.825 It is. And I've seen articles about this, but I'm not ready to say that I recall 00:35:12.825 --> 00:35:15.565 because it really didn't apply to me at that point. 00:35:16.085 --> 00:35:22.945 But I guess my feeling is that here in the U.S., everybody's offering bundles with everybody else. 00:35:23.585 --> 00:35:33.705 And if I buy that bundle and let's just – I'm going to make it up and say it's Netflix and Hulu. 00:35:35.205 --> 00:35:44.225 And then next week, I decided I wanted to add another one, but I already have those two. 00:35:44.345 --> 00:35:48.485 But there's another bundle now that includes those two or has at least one of those two. 00:35:50.625 --> 00:35:53.985 Nobody's going to give me a discount. I've already bought bundle A. 00:35:54.005 --> 00:35:57.225 If I want to buy bundle B, I can do it. And there's an overlap, 00:35:57.445 --> 00:36:03.225 but nobody's going to give me extra days or weeks or months on my service. 00:36:03.225 --> 00:36:03.785 Sounds like a you problem. 00:36:04.145 --> 00:36:09.605 Yeah. So, you know, I would be kind of surprised in so many ways. 00:36:10.285 --> 00:36:14.905 I think it makes a certain amount of sense because as all of these services 00:36:14.905 --> 00:36:19.385 raise their prices, they've got to figure out a way to deliver better value 00:36:19.385 --> 00:36:20.905 for what you're getting. 00:36:21.185 --> 00:36:23.665 And so bundling makes a whole lot of sense. 00:36:24.345 --> 00:36:29.045 And Peacock and Apple TV Plus, you know, those are pretty good bedfellows. 00:36:29.245 --> 00:36:31.485 I guess as good as anybody else, maybe better. 00:36:34.287 --> 00:36:38.927 Yeah, I agree with a lot of that. It's almost like people, you know, 00:36:39.087 --> 00:36:42.627 we've got huge amounts of subscription fatigue. We know that. 00:36:43.587 --> 00:36:48.927 And it's almost like people want to pay once a month to have everything they want available. 00:36:50.067 --> 00:36:53.087 Who would have thought that that was a concept? 00:36:54.287 --> 00:36:57.687 Well, you know, something you said earlier, too, that I wanted to, 00:36:57.887 --> 00:37:03.727 and I never got to it, that Formula One, F1 racing is now moving behind a paywall. 00:37:04.887 --> 00:37:09.627 I'm not so sure, Charlotte, that pretty much any and all quality programming, 00:37:10.307 --> 00:37:14.287 absent maybe some of the sports, isn't going to end up behind a paywall somewhere. 00:37:15.087 --> 00:37:20.447 Because the networks here, I can't speak for the UK, but the networks here, 00:37:20.447 --> 00:37:26.367 I feel like they've just kind of given up on scripted programming because what 00:37:26.367 --> 00:37:28.327 they're offering is pathetic. 00:37:29.947 --> 00:37:36.507 I can't think of a single network program that I have any respect for. 00:37:37.027 --> 00:37:41.147 No, scratch that. I better not do that, but that I have any interest in. 00:37:42.227 --> 00:37:44.867 But there are a lot of things on Google. How do you really go, Charles? 00:37:45.307 --> 00:37:52.427 Yeah, well, listen, when you start digging up 1950s and 60s game shows and, 00:37:52.427 --> 00:37:57.287 you know, that kind of thing and putting, yeah, current stars in them and running 00:37:57.287 --> 00:37:58.427 them in prime time, Charlotte? 00:38:00.376 --> 00:38:05.996 And game shows in prime time? Are you going to tell me that this isn't an industry 00:38:05.996 --> 00:38:09.536 that has just given up a segment of the market? 00:38:12.136 --> 00:38:16.256 So I think it has. I think that's true either side of the antic. 00:38:16.316 --> 00:38:24.016 I think there is some pretty good programming from the BBC, ITV, Channel 4 here in the UK. 00:38:25.956 --> 00:38:30.336 But I think it's fair to say that a lot of the programs where people go, 00:38:30.896 --> 00:38:32.616 oh, my God, have you watched this? I'm binging this. 00:38:34.116 --> 00:38:35.816 Most of them are on streaming services. 00:38:37.376 --> 00:38:39.616 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 00:38:41.496 --> 00:38:46.976 That's why I wrote a book about them, Chuck. All right, now let's get to the book, Streaming Wars. 00:38:48.676 --> 00:38:53.456 Yeah, it's out now in the UK. It might be out in the US by the time you listen to this. 00:38:53.576 --> 00:38:57.636 It comes out 28th of October in the US. You can get it basically wherever you 00:38:57.636 --> 00:39:04.356 buy a book. I looked at the whole picture of streaming from Netflix to Spotify to Twitch. 00:39:04.796 --> 00:39:08.096 And obviously there's a lot of Apple TV in there as well. 00:39:08.996 --> 00:39:15.136 I've just had the horrible realization that every reference to it is Apple TV Plus in the book. 00:39:18.236 --> 00:39:21.436 Well, thanks a lot, IDQ. Yeah, there you go. 00:39:21.616 --> 00:39:23.556 There you go. and didn't you mention 00:39:23.556 --> 00:39:26.836 in our pre-show that you're doing an appearance uh somewhere at least, 00:39:27.636 --> 00:39:32.036 coming up i'm not sure it'll be out oh i'm having a launch party in the uk yeah 00:39:32.036 --> 00:39:36.896 but i've there's all sorts of podcasts i'm popping up on as well so it'd be 00:39:36.896 --> 00:39:43.456 lovely if people listen to those lovely people subscribe here and the most lovely 00:39:43.456 --> 00:39:45.396 if you pick up a copy of the book, 00:39:47.016 --> 00:39:48.136 Definitely, definitely. 00:39:49.056 --> 00:39:54.256 I'm looking forward to it because, as I've said before, you are such a student 00:39:54.256 --> 00:39:58.896 of this kind of thing, and you bring a lot of things to light that the rest 00:39:58.896 --> 00:40:03.156 of us don't really think about, nor probably could we because we don't have the background. 00:40:05.844 --> 00:40:10.824 Um well it's such a nice way of you to say student instead of nerd i i really 00:40:10.824 --> 00:40:15.184 appreciate that where can people keep up with all the cool cool stuff you're doing, 00:40:16.324 --> 00:40:19.464 you can find me over at macvoices.com that's 00:40:19.464 --> 00:40:22.704 where i have a lot of interviews we have panel discussions we 00:40:22.704 --> 00:40:25.504 keep you up to date on the world of tech with an apple 00:40:25.504 --> 00:40:28.344 focus and on all the socials you can find me 00:40:28.344 --> 00:40:31.024 as at chuck joyer charlotte where can 00:40:31.024 --> 00:40:34.324 they find you so as well 00:40:34.324 --> 00:40:37.804 as um obviously these streaming wars head over to the edition.net that's 00:40:37.804 --> 00:40:40.744 where i write blog do podcasts about 00:40:40.744 --> 00:40:43.984 the crossover of culture media and sport and there's 00:40:43.984 --> 00:40:47.324 a lot of emphasis on the tech that drives all those things um 00:40:47.324 --> 00:40:52.264 so i'd love you to head over there subscribe to the newsletter so on and so 00:40:52.264 --> 00:40:58.484 forth this is we got through it all chuck we did when i saw i mean there was 00:40:58.484 --> 00:41:03.484 a lot to get through but uh i think we've made some sense of it all and uh maybe 00:41:03.484 --> 00:41:06.684 we still have a name for our show Yeah, I think so. 00:41:06.844 --> 00:41:09.124 And if anything changes, folks, we'll let you know. 00:41:09.664 --> 00:41:14.624 But until the next time when we come back and talk more Apple TV, 00:41:15.504 --> 00:41:19.884 Apple TV, just Apple TV, thanks for watching.