WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:12.240 Music. 00:00:12.687 --> 00:00:16.707 Hello, hello. Welcome to TV Plus Talk, where me, Charlotte Henry, 00:00:17.027 --> 00:00:23.047 and him, Chuck Joyner, discuss everything in the world of Apple TV Plus. 00:00:23.267 --> 00:00:27.027 We're doing this on quite a fun day, actually. We're recording this just an 00:00:27.027 --> 00:00:30.387 hour, less than an hour, before we start hearing all the latest, 00:00:30.567 --> 00:00:32.987 what we assume is Apple iPhone stuff. 00:00:32.987 --> 00:00:35.907 Stuff um i'll be very interested to see 00:00:35.907 --> 00:00:38.807 well not just because i need a new iphone but um 00:00:38.807 --> 00:00:41.527 just but also because i'll be interested to see if we get 00:00:41.527 --> 00:00:44.387 any tv plus stuff what the deals are you 00:00:44.387 --> 00:00:47.667 know they normally at least put a deal in for tv plus when you get a new iphone 00:00:47.667 --> 00:00:52.547 and so on so it'll be very interesting to see what part if any tv plus plays 00:00:52.547 --> 00:00:57.367 in the upcoming event we'll obviously unpack it in the next show but hello chuck 00:00:57.367 --> 00:01:02.107 how are things going are you excited for this apple event oh Well, Charlotte, 00:01:02.247 --> 00:01:04.507 you have to be excited for every Apple event. 00:01:05.407 --> 00:01:10.227 Sometimes it feels like all the spoilers and all the leaks and all those articles 00:01:10.227 --> 00:01:13.967 that are out, especially in the last week or two before an event, 00:01:14.487 --> 00:01:17.027 kind of spoil some of it, so I try to avoid it. 00:01:17.087 --> 00:01:22.647 But at the end of the day, Apple often, not as like they used to be able to, 00:01:22.767 --> 00:01:27.247 but often pull out a little surprise, and I'm hoping there will be something here. 00:01:28.967 --> 00:01:32.867 Yes, listeners, Chuck didn't like it when I started trying to find out what 00:01:32.867 --> 00:01:36.107 was happening at events, when I was reporting for the Mac Observer, 00:01:36.207 --> 00:01:38.787 Chuck always got annoyed at me when I was trying to find out what was going 00:01:38.787 --> 00:01:41.567 on and whack out what was going on ahead of the events. 00:01:41.727 --> 00:01:45.867 I was told I was spoiling all the fun. But anyway, what's a reporter meant to 00:01:45.867 --> 00:01:47.047 do if you did not spoil the fun? 00:01:47.107 --> 00:01:51.647 Yeah, that was your job. Just because I didn't like it didn't mean you shouldn't do it. 00:01:52.147 --> 00:01:55.447 Just because he boycotted all my work for weeks doesn't mean, you know. 00:01:56.107 --> 00:01:59.167 Well, you know, there's some truth to that, not just yours. But, 00:01:59.347 --> 00:02:04.547 you know, when I see something that says latest leak, I just ignore it because, 00:02:04.547 --> 00:02:08.467 you know, it's not real. It's all clickbait. 00:02:08.767 --> 00:02:13.687 You know, so I want facts, not speculation. Use me. I would never produce clickbait. 00:02:15.487 --> 00:02:19.147 You didn't disappoint me, Charlotte. You just went for that bait right away. 00:02:19.967 --> 00:02:22.247 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Always. 00:02:24.207 --> 00:02:28.627 Interestingly, we'll crack on with the TV Plus stuff because we've got some 00:02:28.627 --> 00:02:32.167 data on the most popular shows. I think it's all through Just Watch. 00:02:33.187 --> 00:02:38.127 I have to tell you, I don't know what your take is, Chuck. I'm always slightly surprised when I see... 00:02:39.163 --> 00:02:45.463 What the popular shows and series and films on Apple TV Plus are. 00:02:45.723 --> 00:02:52.103 So I know that there's a thing that on Netflix is not always the big hits that 00:02:52.103 --> 00:02:55.843 you think are the most popular, that actually get the numbers, right? 00:02:55.903 --> 00:02:59.623 It's often the mediocre stuff that people have on in the background while they've 00:02:59.623 --> 00:03:02.683 got TV, you know, while they're doing some work or the ironing or something. 00:03:03.783 --> 00:03:07.603 As you and I have discussed before, that Apple kind of doesn't do that stuff. 00:03:08.583 --> 00:03:11.343 So it's interesting to see what's in 00:03:11.343 --> 00:03:15.543 the top 10 can you guess what 00:03:15.543 --> 00:03:18.403 the most popular show in august was 00:03:18.403 --> 00:03:21.923 on apple tv plus i'm cheating 00:03:21.923 --> 00:03:24.903 because of course i've seen the article i was i wondered if 00:03:24.903 --> 00:03:28.363 you were cheating go on yes i well i have it right here um 00:03:28.363 --> 00:03:32.283 yeah chief of war was number one which 00:03:32.283 --> 00:03:36.803 i mean listen well go 00:03:36.803 --> 00:03:39.823 ahead sorry jason momoa no i was just gonna say jason momoa's 00:03:39.823 --> 00:03:46.303 arms are always gonna get viewers right okay um i'm sure you'd be happy well 00:03:46.303 --> 00:03:52.803 it but it also if i believe with the possible exception of foundation i think 00:03:52.803 --> 00:03:59.443 this is the most recent one to be released i'm not I'm not sure whether Foundation came, pardon me, 00:04:00.103 --> 00:04:03.103 Chief of War came first or Invasion came first. Sure. 00:04:03.663 --> 00:04:07.703 But Chief of War is brand new. It's kind of similar time, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. 00:04:08.523 --> 00:04:11.983 But they're in the top three. Foundation is number two. 00:04:12.783 --> 00:04:18.403 And Foundation, the new season just started. 00:04:18.883 --> 00:04:22.263 So I was not surprised to see those first three. 00:04:23.703 --> 00:04:30.763 It felt very logical. Sure, I agree with you. Let me just rattle quickly through the top 10 shows. 00:04:30.923 --> 00:04:33.143 It's Chief of World Foundation, Invasion, as you've said. 00:04:33.343 --> 00:04:35.723 Then number four is Platonic. Number five is Smoke. 00:04:35.963 --> 00:04:38.003 Six is Severance. Seven is The Studio. 00:04:38.343 --> 00:04:41.543 Eight is Murderbot. Nine is Slow Horses. Ten is Stick. 00:04:43.183 --> 00:04:45.983 There are some shows that have hung around a bit, right? I mean, 00:04:46.203 --> 00:04:49.603 I'm sure Apple is very pleased that Slow Horses keeps up the numbers. 00:04:49.903 --> 00:04:51.363 Severance keeps doing numbers. 00:04:52.643 --> 00:04:57.063 You know, those investments are kind of paying off, right? Yes, definitely. 00:04:57.463 --> 00:05:06.443 And to your point about Netflix, when you see some of those less popular shows 00:05:06.443 --> 00:05:10.743 or at least less visible shows, I feel like sometimes they're almost just like comfort food. 00:05:10.743 --> 00:05:15.603 And to your point, they put them on as almost audio and video wallpaper in back. 00:05:16.363 --> 00:05:21.503 And Apple TV Plus, this list to me validates something we've been saying for 00:05:21.503 --> 00:05:26.723 a while, that this is TV that people are paying attention to more than just 00:05:26.723 --> 00:05:28.343 letting it drone on somewhere. 00:05:29.343 --> 00:05:32.883 And maybe I'm just interpreting it the way I want to, but…, 00:05:33.915 --> 00:05:38.435 I mean, what here has been around for a long time? 00:05:39.075 --> 00:05:44.375 Slow Horses has multiple seasons, but that's not the kind of show that just 00:05:44.375 --> 00:05:45.515 you leave on in the background. 00:05:46.995 --> 00:05:50.955 No, I don't really think any of these shows are kind of – I don't think you'd 00:05:50.955 --> 00:05:54.415 get very far with Foundation or Severance or something on in the background. 00:05:55.715 --> 00:06:00.175 So I think you're right that that's not what's happening with these shows. 00:06:00.575 --> 00:06:03.595 Quickly, let's look at the movies that are doing the best numbers. 00:06:04.515 --> 00:06:09.135 On Apple TV Plus from August, was The Gorge. Killers of the Flower Moon is still 00:06:09.135 --> 00:06:12.255 there, Fountain of Youth. Echo Valley Coda is still there. 00:06:12.955 --> 00:06:14.475 Tetris, which you and I loved. 00:06:15.195 --> 00:06:19.855 Napoleon, The Family Plan, Wolves, and Fly Me to the Moon. Now, 00:06:19.935 --> 00:06:22.235 those have kind of hung around a bit longer, haven't they? 00:06:23.675 --> 00:06:28.395 They have. A lot of those. Yeah, they have. And I don't know. 00:06:28.395 --> 00:06:36.695 I guess I view movies as a little bit different kind of watching experience as a series. 00:06:37.555 --> 00:06:40.795 So I do want to point out that The Gorge, you heard it here first, 00:06:41.035 --> 00:06:44.975 you know, we picked The Gorge quite a while back when nobody had seemed to hear 00:06:44.975 --> 00:06:47.835 of it because it got, it seemed to get so little publicity. 00:06:48.475 --> 00:06:51.475 And now all of a sudden there is the top of the list. And it's, 00:06:51.615 --> 00:06:54.135 if I recall correctly, it's up for some awards. 00:06:54.355 --> 00:06:58.295 You know better about that than I do. um napoleon is 00:06:58.295 --> 00:07:01.855 still hanging in there i know we disagreed on napoleon but you know it's it's 00:07:01.855 --> 00:07:08.035 there too um yeah just on the gorge it's got as we said at the time you know 00:07:08.035 --> 00:07:13.435 amazing cars got sigourney weaver in there if you don't mind um and also it's 00:07:13.435 --> 00:07:17.375 got music by trent resner and atticus ross so you know. 00:07:19.403 --> 00:07:22.443 I am a trend-resist fangirl, so. Yeah. 00:07:23.023 --> 00:07:28.103 Tetris, I was surprised to see is still around because that's been for quite a while. 00:07:29.143 --> 00:07:33.603 Yeah, it is. It has been. Go back to the episode where Chuck and I discussed 00:07:33.603 --> 00:07:34.863 it because we both really liked it. 00:07:35.003 --> 00:07:37.343 And if you haven't seen it, you should. 00:07:37.903 --> 00:07:41.223 It kind of brings us nicely to one of the main things we want to discuss, 00:07:41.443 --> 00:07:46.503 which we do keep coming back to, but we've got a bit of time to dive into it. 00:07:46.503 --> 00:07:53.023 Which is there's an article on Maxwell talking about dropping Netflix for Apple 00:07:53.023 --> 00:07:55.703 TV+. It's been floating around a while, this discussion. 00:07:56.943 --> 00:08:00.683 So the question is, is Apple TV+, better value than Netflix? 00:08:03.383 --> 00:08:08.063 It depends. You've said before, for you personally, it is. 00:08:08.483 --> 00:08:13.583 Yeah, and I think that to your point about the – we're talking about audio, 00:08:13.743 --> 00:08:18.083 video, wallpaper. Netflix may be a better choice because it's got a much deeper 00:08:18.083 --> 00:08:20.863 back catalog of comfort shows. 00:08:21.163 --> 00:08:27.583 But if you're looking for new things to watch that are not quite as formulaic 00:08:27.583 --> 00:08:30.623 as a lot of content that seems to be out there right now, 00:08:32.223 --> 00:08:36.423 you know, it's – I just – I think it depends on you. I think it depends on your household. 00:08:36.643 --> 00:08:40.923 Do you have kids in the household or not? You know, does your significant other 00:08:40.923 --> 00:08:45.243 have a different viewing style or viewing habits than you do? 00:08:45.843 --> 00:08:51.303 But I think they're both fine choices. It just depends on, you know, 00:08:51.423 --> 00:08:54.303 which one suits you better at any given moment. 00:08:55.628 --> 00:08:59.248 We should also know that there's quite significant price differences. 00:09:01.068 --> 00:09:06.688 You know, for Apple TV Plus is still, depending on whichever way you get it, 00:09:07.688 --> 00:09:10.208 cheaper than the comparable Netflix tier. 00:09:11.168 --> 00:09:15.188 Right. Right. Which, you know, does matter. 00:09:15.588 --> 00:09:20.228 Yeah, oh, it absolutely does. It absolutely does. Again, I come back to my old 00:09:20.228 --> 00:09:24.728 formula of, you know, how many hours per month are you watching? 00:09:25.288 --> 00:09:28.088 And what is it costing you per month to watch it? 00:09:28.848 --> 00:09:31.788 And I'm quick to say, really watch it. 00:09:32.768 --> 00:09:36.428 We're back to the discussion of how much are you really paying attention or 00:09:36.428 --> 00:09:38.608 do you just have it on the background droning on? 00:09:39.008 --> 00:09:46.648 So do some quick math and figure out what is most important to you and then 00:09:46.648 --> 00:09:48.968 the answers will magically appear. 00:09:50.708 --> 00:09:54.248 Yeah and there's also the 00:09:54.248 --> 00:09:57.048 thing of bundling so i 00:09:57.048 --> 00:10:00.068 get apple tv plus as part of an apple one bundle 00:10:00.068 --> 00:10:03.268 so the overall price 00:10:03.268 --> 00:10:07.328 of both apple tv plus and the apple one bundle is 00:10:07.328 --> 00:10:10.348 pretty good for me it works out it's not cheap i'm playing 37 00:10:10.348 --> 00:10:13.128 pounds a month now for the top tier bundle which is you know 00:10:13.128 --> 00:10:16.508 not insignificant but you're getting 00:10:16.508 --> 00:10:19.948 a lot for that basically if you get any um 00:10:19.948 --> 00:10:22.628 apple one bundle you get tv plus thrown in there 00:10:22.628 --> 00:10:30.668 it's the basic thing so in a way netflix will always be a sort of extra i actually 00:10:30.668 --> 00:10:35.808 have it thrown in with a tv bundle i have but for the if you're an apple user 00:10:35.808 --> 00:10:40.248 mac user or an iPhone user using services like iCloud, 00:10:40.488 --> 00:10:44.028 maybe even Apple Music instead of Spotify, 00:10:44.908 --> 00:10:49.748 it's actually a pretty competitive price point within the bundles. 00:10:51.632 --> 00:10:54.652 And I think people, when they're talking about streaming services, 00:10:56.372 --> 00:10:59.212 neglect when they're talking about Apple within the world of streaming, 00:10:59.352 --> 00:11:03.052 let me put it that way, because there's a lot of discussion about bundling in streaming. 00:11:03.492 --> 00:11:08.232 But when they're talking about Apple, they neglect it as perhaps a part of the whole. 00:11:09.952 --> 00:11:15.912 And those various bundles and services. Yeah. And the bundles and services really do. 00:11:16.192 --> 00:11:20.652 I mean, in some ways it just confuses the consumer because, okay, 00:11:20.652 --> 00:11:21.692 Yeah, I pick that bundle up. 00:11:21.892 --> 00:11:26.372 And sometimes I think, if I remember correctly, like the discounts last for 00:11:26.372 --> 00:11:28.452 maybe three months and then they kick over to normal. 00:11:28.932 --> 00:11:31.852 Others you buy a bundle. They seem to change it every time, don't they? Yeah. 00:11:32.172 --> 00:11:37.812 And so it really is difficult to do an evaluation of what you're getting and 00:11:37.812 --> 00:11:39.332 how much it's really costing you. 00:11:39.832 --> 00:11:44.692 Because, you know, okay, so we pick up a bundle with Apple TV Plus and Peacock 00:11:44.692 --> 00:11:46.532 and I don't know what else. 00:11:47.092 --> 00:11:50.552 And, you know, so which one am I watching more? Am I watching more Peacock? 00:11:50.652 --> 00:11:52.152 Am I watching more Apple TV Plus? 00:11:52.892 --> 00:11:56.612 Which one is free? Well, yes, exactly, exactly. 00:11:56.772 --> 00:12:02.572 And I need to put a date on my calendar when my streaming service deal expires, 00:12:03.072 --> 00:12:09.472 to make sure that all of a sudden I don't go from maybe $10 or $15 a month to $40 or $50 a month. 00:12:10.712 --> 00:12:16.452 So, you know, it's a challenge. You and I could do a whole show, 00:12:16.592 --> 00:12:22.712 I think, on subscription management and bundle management and all those things. 00:12:22.812 --> 00:12:25.532 I think you and I could do a long conversation on that. 00:12:27.032 --> 00:12:31.652 But I think there's still the perception that there is not much on Apple TV+. 00:12:31.652 --> 00:12:33.992 You and I have highlighted lots of times that there is. 00:12:34.072 --> 00:12:39.312 I think that those two lists that we just read out show that there is plenty 00:12:39.312 --> 00:12:43.632 to watch on TV+. I still think people think there's just so much more on Netflix 00:12:43.632 --> 00:12:46.792 and you just kind of, quote unquote, have to have Netflix. 00:12:48.355 --> 00:12:52.715 I think there's still that perception. And when I looked into the data, 00:12:52.715 --> 00:12:56.635 when I was writing my book, Streaming Wars, October the 3rd in the UK, 00:12:56.835 --> 00:13:01.415 October 28th in the US, when I looked into the data for that book, 00:13:01.695 --> 00:13:08.895 it showed that basically people are picking Netflix and one other service. 00:13:09.315 --> 00:13:12.875 People seem to have Netflix as their basic core service still. 00:13:15.095 --> 00:13:18.295 Yeah interestingly this this is sort of not 00:13:18.295 --> 00:13:21.855 related but it's a good example i think um i'm 00:13:21.855 --> 00:13:24.715 helping a good friend move into a new home 00:13:24.715 --> 00:13:30.015 and as a result what you're 00:13:30.015 --> 00:13:34.535 a good friend to agree to do that yeah well and they're they're evaluating they're 00:13:34.535 --> 00:13:37.715 they're getting a new cable service moving to a new town so getting a new cable 00:13:37.715 --> 00:13:46.535 service and so the one bundle that was offered to them was 120 channels plus as internet, 00:13:46.935 --> 00:13:49.095 internet, 120 channels. 00:13:49.615 --> 00:13:53.295 Interestingly, Apple TV plus and Peacock for unlimited time. 00:13:54.555 --> 00:13:58.935 Okay, great. You know, I was happy to see Apple TV plus in there and Peacock 00:13:58.935 --> 00:14:01.695 is fine for what they, for what some of what they deliver. 00:14:02.215 --> 00:14:04.775 But when you look at the list, I'm going to do sport on Peacock. 00:14:06.135 --> 00:14:09.815 Um, I believe so. Not sure, but I believe so. 00:14:10.395 --> 00:14:15.815 Yeah. But where I really, what really got me is, okay, here's this list of 120 channels. 00:14:16.835 --> 00:14:20.875 And there are like a hundred of them that I've never heard of at all. 00:14:21.475 --> 00:14:27.095 And there are 20 that I've heard of. And probably about six of those would be watched. 00:14:27.855 --> 00:14:33.655 And yet, in theory, you're paying for at least something for all of those channels. 00:14:33.855 --> 00:14:36.855 Part of your money is going to all those channels. Of course. 00:14:38.235 --> 00:14:42.135 This is the classic thing about the cable bundle, isn't it? This is the conversation 00:14:42.135 --> 00:14:44.135 that's ongoing around cord cutting. 00:14:44.455 --> 00:14:50.315 And now, hence the reason why we make this show, Apple is part of that discussion, 00:14:50.455 --> 00:14:52.315 the cord cutting discussion. 00:14:52.315 --> 00:14:55.635 You know if you're a baseball fan you can 00:14:55.635 --> 00:14:58.775 watch baseball on well we discussed the last show you might not be able to do 00:14:58.775 --> 00:15:02.375 that for much longer but at the moment you can watch baseball we looks like 00:15:02.375 --> 00:15:07.335 you're going to be able to get formula one on apple so there's one part of your 00:15:07.335 --> 00:15:14.535 core cutting netflix you know people have started to do their diy bundles of which apple is a part. 00:15:16.475 --> 00:15:20.275 But i think people are going to wanting to go back to the more simplistic thing 00:15:20.275 --> 00:15:23.315 of i pay x amount a month yeah it's quite a bit but i'll get everything and 00:15:23.315 --> 00:15:24.435 i don't have to think about it. 00:15:26.115 --> 00:15:31.375 And i've seen that happen to people where you know they're paying three or 350 00:15:31.375 --> 00:15:37.775 a month 300 to 350 a month and yeah they get everything oh isn't that wonderful and it's like okay but, 00:15:38.275 --> 00:15:41.755 what channels and how much are you really watching and then 00:15:41.755 --> 00:15:44.875 they start to do the math and it just it's like 00:15:44.875 --> 00:15:48.555 oh my god you do you do you understand that's 350 a 00:15:48.555 --> 00:15:51.155 month yeah a lot of money i mean if if 00:15:51.155 --> 00:15:53.855 we do if we keep it simple and say 12 months at three 00:15:53.855 --> 00:15:58.435 hundred dollars what is that thirty six hundred dollars thirty six hundred dollars 00:15:58.435 --> 00:16:07.675 for cable or bundling or call it whatever you will that's insane but the thing 00:16:07.675 --> 00:16:10.335 that apple does i want to return to this point because what we were really talking 00:16:10.335 --> 00:16:13.695 about was netflix versus apple and value for money. 00:16:14.015 --> 00:16:16.995 So one, yes, it's the programming is part of that discussion, 00:16:16.995 --> 00:16:19.815 but also the associated services. 00:16:20.075 --> 00:16:25.155 So as I said, I think if you're using a couple of Apple services or have an 00:16:25.155 --> 00:16:26.555 Apple device that, you know, 00:16:26.895 --> 00:16:34.675 if a Mac and an iPhone are your daily drivers, it is economical sense, 00:16:34.815 --> 00:16:40.875 I would say, to get an Apple One bundle and that throws in Apple TV Plus with it. 00:16:41.892 --> 00:16:47.792 And therefore, that is good money. There is a different discussion if you're 00:16:47.792 --> 00:16:51.992 just buying Apple TV Plus separately to watch on your big screen TV at home. 00:16:52.312 --> 00:16:53.692 That is a different discussion. 00:16:54.972 --> 00:16:59.272 It's a different discussion, but it's still a valid point that Apple TV Plus 00:16:59.272 --> 00:17:01.992 may be an alternative to Netflix. Sure. 00:17:02.772 --> 00:17:07.192 Because where I was going with the 120 channels, Charlotte, was what you just 00:17:07.192 --> 00:17:11.192 said about Netflix being the basic, that everybody says, oh, I have to have it. 00:17:11.192 --> 00:17:16.972 I mean, a number of years ago now, when cable TV was making its inroads, 00:17:17.512 --> 00:17:20.172 well, you just you had to have it, you had to buy their package. 00:17:20.712 --> 00:17:25.432 And most most people bought the top package because they just had to have everything. 00:17:26.172 --> 00:17:32.132 And I think now we've we've hit a point where you unless you just have money 00:17:32.132 --> 00:17:36.072 to burn, you have to be just a little more discerning and a little more intelligent 00:17:36.072 --> 00:17:37.352 about what you subscribe to. 00:17:39.452 --> 00:17:42.552 Yeah oh totally this is our ongoing theme 00:17:42.552 --> 00:17:45.992 in a lot that i write about of people managing their streaming 00:17:45.992 --> 00:17:50.172 services and the frustration with that if you're a big movie fan you have to 00:17:50.172 --> 00:17:54.332 keep the track up to date with where things go if you want different seasons 00:17:54.332 --> 00:17:58.392 of different shows they seem to move from one service to the other i turned 00:17:58.392 --> 00:18:02.632 on netflix the other day and i'm pretty sure i found star trek in there whereas 00:18:02.632 --> 00:18:04.492 i thought that was only on paramount plus, 00:18:05.052 --> 00:18:09.792 anyway that might be a UK thing but I was confused when I saw Catherine Janeway's picture, 00:18:10.732 --> 00:18:13.852 jump up on me in uh Netflix I'll 00:18:13.852 --> 00:18:17.112 have to dive into that when I get back to you but anyway I think 00:18:17.112 --> 00:18:20.192 people are not doing the maths you're talking 00:18:20.192 --> 00:18:25.852 about and I think there's still the perception there's nothing quote-unquote 00:18:25.852 --> 00:18:32.792 nothing for me on Apple TV plus once you've watched like ted lasso um so yeah 00:18:32.792 --> 00:18:37.312 i think it's an in it is an ongoing discussion i think if apple can hold its. 00:18:39.867 --> 00:18:45.547 It will be a really competitive challenger to some of the other services. 00:18:46.107 --> 00:18:51.367 I do think that. I wonder actually, now that I'm sort of thinking out loud, 00:18:51.487 --> 00:18:55.427 I wonder if actually the comparison that you should do pound for pound or dollar 00:18:55.427 --> 00:18:57.067 for dollar is not really Netflix. 00:18:57.867 --> 00:19:01.007 I think people are just always going to get Netflix, whether it's because of 00:19:01.007 --> 00:19:03.707 Wednesday or Stranger Things or whatever else. 00:19:04.107 --> 00:19:09.627 But I think people, you could have a discussion about, do you want Apple TV Plus or Paramount Plus? 00:19:09.867 --> 00:19:12.527 For example, or Peacock. 00:19:12.827 --> 00:19:14.747 There's various different things, right? 00:19:15.167 --> 00:19:18.147 And I think that is where Apple should be competing. 00:19:20.447 --> 00:19:23.767 Netflix is the 800-pound Garoba in the room, let's face it. 00:19:24.267 --> 00:19:28.367 I mean, Disney's the only – Disney slash Hulu were the only things that really 00:19:28.367 --> 00:19:30.807 ever had a chance of challenging. Disney Plus is the other one. 00:19:31.047 --> 00:19:36.827 Yeah, I mean, all these others, they try to bring three or four channels together 00:19:36.827 --> 00:19:38.227 and create something new. 00:19:38.927 --> 00:19:43.027 Paramount took an interesting move and you know tried to sequester its stuff 00:19:43.027 --> 00:19:49.167 as did nbc with peacock um and i guess you can argue that to varying degrees 00:19:49.167 --> 00:19:56.847 they've been minor minor success stories but netflix still rules the roost oh 00:19:56.847 --> 00:19:58.887 if you look at any subscriber data it's, 00:19:59.947 --> 00:20:06.707 miles ahead yeah yeah so miles i i don't know how to i want to encourage people 00:20:06.707 --> 00:20:10.107 to be smarter about the way they spend their entertainment dollars here. 00:20:10.367 --> 00:20:16.227 But we're right back to it. I think Apple TV Plus needs to be part of the consideration. 00:20:16.387 --> 00:20:23.907 And as you said, if you are an Apple person and you use some of the other services, 00:20:24.247 --> 00:20:28.747 notably iCloud or Apple Music, a bundle is an amazing value. 00:20:29.667 --> 00:20:33.087 And you get Apple TV Plus as part of that value. 00:20:35.627 --> 00:20:39.747 Okay. Related is there's some story. 00:20:39.987 --> 00:20:43.587 We read a story on 95 Mac by Ryan Christophel. 00:20:43.767 --> 00:20:47.667 He headlined it, Apple is making the movies Hollywood won't and it's paying 00:20:47.667 --> 00:20:49.627 off big, which is interesting. 00:20:49.987 --> 00:20:57.287 Now let's go back to that list we started with about the most watched Apple TV Plus movies. 00:20:59.047 --> 00:21:03.647 You know, Killers of the Flower Moon. That did go into cinemas, as did Coda. 00:21:04.347 --> 00:21:07.187 I mean, lots of them have gone into cinemas now that I look at that list, 00:21:07.227 --> 00:21:13.987 but they needed Apple and, frankly, Apple's money to get made. 00:21:13.987 --> 00:21:17.827 I think others would have made Coda, but that's quite serious. 00:21:17.947 --> 00:21:22.987 And, you know, Apple picked up the best movie, best picture Oscar ahead of something 00:21:22.987 --> 00:21:24.507 Netflix had tried to do for years. 00:21:24.787 --> 00:21:27.967 Every time I'd mention Coda, it'd have to be mentioned. Tetris, 00:21:28.047 --> 00:21:32.867 no one made that movie, but it's a great movie that's worth jumping into Apple TV Plus for. 00:21:33.927 --> 00:21:40.647 And those movies do give the TV Plus service and Apple, by extension, 00:21:40.947 --> 00:21:42.787 a bit of cultural cachet, doesn't it? 00:21:44.987 --> 00:21:49.727 I think it does. I mean, I'm just reviewing the article again here. 00:21:49.927 --> 00:21:54.467 And something that I tend to overlook, but if I stop and think about it, 00:21:54.787 --> 00:22:00.587 but to quote it, sequels, remakes, and IP-based films now dominate the film market. 00:22:01.387 --> 00:22:06.807 And originality is struggling. And that's where The Gorge, I mean, 00:22:06.907 --> 00:22:10.547 The Gorge was very original as far as I was concerned because, 00:22:10.767 --> 00:22:15.227 and I think I said this when we first recommended it, that it had three components 00:22:15.227 --> 00:22:18.047 that I normally would have turned me off. 00:22:18.167 --> 00:22:22.607 But they were so well done and they were so well woven together that it created 00:22:22.607 --> 00:22:25.107 a very compelling story and a compelling movie. 00:22:28.087 --> 00:22:33.167 I think Hollywood is looking for those big hits like everybody is. 00:22:33.647 --> 00:22:40.807 But maybe Apple and their philosophy, maybe if they get one, great. 00:22:41.187 --> 00:22:46.567 They certainly got one with F1. But if they can get something that appeals to 00:22:46.567 --> 00:22:52.107 a faction of people, that's good enough. And by the way, then they have it to 00:22:52.107 --> 00:22:53.847 enhance their streaming service as well. 00:22:55.387 --> 00:22:59.367 Yeah, there's some really interesting quotes from a Spike Lee and Denzel Washington 00:22:59.367 --> 00:23:01.827 interview with Vanity Fair. 00:23:01.827 --> 00:23:07.947 Uh that jenzel washington said they apple also gave us a lot of money to make 00:23:07.947 --> 00:23:12.947 the film which is they're talking about highest to lowest and it said so then 00:23:12.947 --> 00:23:16.127 spike lee said the industry has changed time has changed so we've got to change 00:23:16.127 --> 00:23:19.087 with the times this film would not have been made without apple that's just 00:23:19.087 --> 00:23:20.907 the truth so that's spike lee. 00:23:22.691 --> 00:23:28.431 The financial clout Apple has, you know, it isn't going to live or die on the 00:23:28.431 --> 00:23:29.871 back of a movie release, Apple. 00:23:30.211 --> 00:23:33.591 What is much more interesting, what's about the Bachelor Watch once we finish 00:23:33.591 --> 00:23:36.071 recording this show, which is the iPhone release. 00:23:36.191 --> 00:23:38.551 That's what matters much more to Apple. 00:23:38.831 --> 00:23:43.331 That's what the company builds on. They can afford to give Spike Lee and Denzel 00:23:43.331 --> 00:23:45.731 Washington quite a bit of money to make a movie. 00:23:45.871 --> 00:23:50.511 And it's not going to, you know, it's pocket change almost for a company like Apple. 00:23:51.091 --> 00:23:59.131 And so they have the capacity to fund things that hollywood simply can't and that is a really. 00:23:59.811 --> 00:24:02.651 Fascinating position to watch and it seems 00:24:02.651 --> 00:24:05.331 to be paying dividends for apple you know 00:24:05.331 --> 00:24:08.271 as i say the oscar f1 you 00:24:08.271 --> 00:24:11.051 were right to point out who knows what was that's going to pick up as 00:24:11.051 --> 00:24:14.311 the year goes on it's really it's 00:24:14.311 --> 00:24:16.991 really interesting now and i obviously at some 00:24:16.991 --> 00:24:19.851 point they want money back from them and they will start getting money back 00:24:19.851 --> 00:24:23.531 if these make big box offices or attract more subscribers 00:24:23.531 --> 00:24:26.431 but i can only 00:24:26.431 --> 00:24:29.651 repeat myself apple doesn't live or die on 00:24:29.651 --> 00:24:33.711 box office hits and tv plus 00:24:33.711 --> 00:24:40.191 subscriptions so it can take these risks i mean frankly i don't think spike 00:24:40.191 --> 00:24:44.811 lee and denzel washington are a risk two superstars you know what i'm saying 00:24:44.811 --> 00:24:48.551 yeah yeah and and i'll repeat sort of the traditional wisdom, 00:24:48.751 --> 00:24:50.291 that Apple plays the long game. 00:24:50.811 --> 00:24:53.871 And they're willing to take some risks. They're willing to take some losses 00:24:53.871 --> 00:24:57.611 up front to build the bedrock, to move forward. 00:24:58.031 --> 00:25:02.951 Another thing I thought was really, I don't think I really knew this. 00:25:03.511 --> 00:25:08.671 But again, to quote, all signs indicate that Wolves would have flopped at the box office. 00:25:08.811 --> 00:25:13.911 But on Apple TV+, it quickly became the streamer's best performing movie of all time. 00:25:15.471 --> 00:25:18.311 This is such a fascinating point it's such a good point 00:25:18.311 --> 00:25:21.191 because you're so much 00:25:21.191 --> 00:25:26.891 more likely to take a punt on a film on a streaming service i know i am like 00:25:26.891 --> 00:25:32.611 sit down and watch it even if it might not be exactly what you want you might 00:25:32.611 --> 00:25:35.531 say i'll give it 20 minutes see if i get into it if i don't like it doesn't 00:25:35.531 --> 00:25:40.731 matter haven't bought a ticket at the cinema haven't spent the time going into the cinema, 00:25:40.931 --> 00:25:44.851 it's pretty risk-free to watch the first bit of a film and see if you get into it. 00:25:45.431 --> 00:25:48.611 Whereas it doesn't. So people have a chance to look at these films, 00:25:49.011 --> 00:25:53.771 decide if they're interested in them and carry on or not. 00:25:53.911 --> 00:25:57.291 And if the movie is good, well, obviously it pays off for Apple. 00:25:59.132 --> 00:26:05.292 Yeah. And again, you know, okay, if you throw it out to the box office, 00:26:05.552 --> 00:26:07.052 we've heard different things. 00:26:07.272 --> 00:26:12.912 We heard that Apple was going to abandon the box office and just do things for Apple TV Plus. 00:26:13.072 --> 00:26:18.552 And then they kind of broke the rule with F1 and have had an incredible success. 00:26:20.012 --> 00:26:26.832 The killers of the flower moon not so much you know so it it kind of goes it 00:26:26.832 --> 00:26:30.232 how much of it how much of a risk is it for apple to throw it out to the box 00:26:30.232 --> 00:26:33.152 office and then bring it to apple tv plus. 00:26:35.192 --> 00:26:38.172 You know it is is the is the box office just 00:26:38.172 --> 00:26:42.932 free money no matter how how great or how poorly it performs because they're 00:26:42.932 --> 00:26:47.812 really building it for apple tv plus well it's free money and it's also the 00:26:47.812 --> 00:26:52.112 only way you can get into some of the prestigious awards yeah that's i and again 00:26:52.112 --> 00:26:56.852 that's that's so much your world and i forget about that part you're right yeah it's important, 00:26:57.592 --> 00:27:00.232 there's a story i'm very excited in chuck as we come to 00:27:00.232 --> 00:27:05.952 the end of this episode that i do have to discuss with you and that is james 00:27:05.952 --> 00:27:13.512 corden and his writing partner on gavin and stacy ruth jones have signed a multi-million 00:27:13.512 --> 00:27:19.292 pound deal with apple tv plus according to the sun and it will be their follow-up to Gavin and Stacey. 00:27:19.512 --> 00:27:22.672 Now, this is, I don't think it's an affiliated story. I don't think we're going 00:27:22.672 --> 00:27:26.852 to see Uncle Bryn and everyone else come back. 00:27:27.272 --> 00:27:32.772 Well, Gavin and Stacey themselves. But it's going to have an all-British cast. 00:27:32.872 --> 00:27:35.212 It's going to be a 10-part comedy drama series. 00:27:35.652 --> 00:27:41.532 Apparently the BBC and Amazon and Netflix were all interested in getting the 00:27:41.532 --> 00:27:44.792 pair to write the show, but Apple sealed the deal. 00:27:46.552 --> 00:27:51.672 Now this is particularly exciting for me as a Brit you you seem relatively unmoved 00:27:51.672 --> 00:27:57.192 by this but I can't express to you how big the Gavin and Stacey finale was, 00:27:58.172 --> 00:28:04.792 so the finale that was shown at Christmas was has been watched by 19.1 million people, 00:28:05.552 --> 00:28:15.212 so that is approaching one in three people in the UK watched it that's you know that's huge it's, 00:28:16.399 --> 00:28:19.719 Basically, yeah, it kind of shut down that hour on Christmas Day. 00:28:21.339 --> 00:28:25.579 It's worth noting, and it's picked up in this son's story, 00:28:26.779 --> 00:28:31.139 that James Corden, of course, had a relationship with Apple already because 00:28:31.139 --> 00:28:34.979 Carpool Karaoke, when he was doing the late night show, used to go out through 00:28:34.979 --> 00:28:36.959 Apple as a separate thing. 00:28:37.399 --> 00:28:40.759 So it's quite interesting. He's obviously happy working with Apple, 00:28:41.679 --> 00:28:47.579 and he'll be coming back to work with them again. How is James Corden perceived in the U.S. 00:28:47.739 --> 00:28:50.679 After his late-night stint? 00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:58.179 I can't answer that, Charlotte. I did not watch the late-night show. 00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:01.799 I don't think he was – The late-night show, wasn't it, with Corden? 00:29:02.059 --> 00:29:07.139 I guess it was the late-night show. But I have no frame of reference. 00:29:07.399 --> 00:29:11.279 The only James Corden I've ever paid any attention to for any amount of time 00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.559 was Carpool Karaoke, and that was definitely not my thing. 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:17.979 And so and and and i'm sorry i hope 00:29:17.979 --> 00:29:20.939 this won't offend you but i don't know anything about gavin 00:29:20.939 --> 00:29:24.699 and stacy so yeah we'll talk 00:29:24.699 --> 00:29:27.759 about it off air well maybe i mean give it give for 00:29:27.759 --> 00:29:31.459 the folks that are like me give us just like a 30 second summary of gavin and 00:29:31.459 --> 00:29:37.619 stacy and you know what is it 30 seconds okay so gavin and stacy the particularly 00:29:37.619 --> 00:29:43.259 beginning with the front line characters uh one is a sort of essex boy one is 00:29:43.259 --> 00:29:45.119 a little girl from the valleys of wales, 00:29:45.959 --> 00:29:49.879 they fall in love but both have to go to their different places to leave you 00:29:49.879 --> 00:29:56.019 can imagine how it goes uh in amongst it are their best friends smithy played 00:29:56.019 --> 00:30:02.399 by james corden and nessa played by ruth jones obviously one is welsh one is 00:30:02.399 --> 00:30:05.679 english and the whole thing comes together with their friends, 00:30:05.819 --> 00:30:08.279 their families, and this is an ongoing show, and it got hugely, 00:30:08.399 --> 00:30:10.539 hugely popular, culminating. 00:30:11.529 --> 00:30:15.949 I don't know what spoilers do. It culminated in the finale at Christmas. 00:30:16.229 --> 00:30:20.529 There was one finale which we thought was the end, but left people quite unsatisfied. 00:30:21.389 --> 00:30:24.729 And so they came back over Christmas and did the special to finish it off, 00:30:25.349 --> 00:30:27.849 which I think people were a bit happier with how it ended. 00:30:28.849 --> 00:30:30.369 And so they're coming back together. 00:30:30.569 --> 00:30:34.449 And as I say, it was a huge classic British sort of comedy drama. 00:30:35.749 --> 00:30:37.689 There were some very famous moments, 00:30:40.269 --> 00:30:43.169 including James Smithy ordering a 00:30:43.169 --> 00:30:46.069 curry takeaway which is all I can say but if you 00:30:46.069 --> 00:30:49.069 ask anyone about Smithy's takeaway order most people 00:30:49.069 --> 00:30:53.869 in Britain can recite what that order is I'll leave the link in the show notes 00:30:53.869 --> 00:30:59.409 because it's a funny moment but yeah it was a huge hit it's interesting that 00:30:59.409 --> 00:31:03.589 Corden can do the sort of and he gets quite a lot of stick here he's kind of 00:31:03.589 --> 00:31:07.049 not treated that nicely in Britain and is often mocked in Britain, 00:31:08.229 --> 00:31:12.729 not something I particularly had much sympathy for I think he's kind of quite 00:31:12.729 --> 00:31:17.869 clever at what he does but anyway he's often not been sort of castigated in 00:31:17.869 --> 00:31:22.329 Britain but seems to be quite comfortable in the US quite comfortable working with US companies, 00:31:23.808 --> 00:31:30.228 The deal seems to be about £8 million for this show, and it will be due in 2027. 00:31:30.808 --> 00:31:33.808 So that's a hell of a lot of money that Apple are putting up for it. 00:31:34.788 --> 00:31:39.308 It will be interesting if they kind of repeat the Gavin and Stacey formula. 00:31:40.028 --> 00:31:43.988 I'll be very interested to see how they play this out, and I'll definitely be watching it. 00:31:44.168 --> 00:31:48.448 But we've got sort of 18 months from two years until then. 00:31:48.868 --> 00:31:54.228 But I was just really struck by it being Apple that came and took on these two 00:31:54.228 --> 00:31:56.588 very quintessentially British writers. 00:31:58.248 --> 00:32:02.848 I think, though, you've hit something that we've watched Apple do repeatedly. 00:32:03.368 --> 00:32:08.248 And right now, I'm so sorry, I'm drawing a blank. But we see films that are 00:32:08.248 --> 00:32:14.348 produced in native languages and largely subtitled for the US. 00:32:14.828 --> 00:32:18.308 Apple, again, not only do they take a long view, they're taking a global view. 00:32:18.728 --> 00:32:22.388 They're not just producing shows for the US. they're 00:32:22.388 --> 00:32:25.508 there well slow horses is a great example that is not 00:32:25.508 --> 00:32:28.788 necessarily um subtitled but 00:32:28.788 --> 00:32:31.788 i've i think i i know but we've joked about this on 00:32:31.788 --> 00:32:35.468 camera and off that there's certain references certain idioms that i have to 00:32:35.468 --> 00:32:41.108 go and look up and say okay i want to understand what that means to a uk audience 00:32:41.108 --> 00:32:47.068 because it is set in the uk and it those kind of things make me work a little 00:32:47.068 --> 00:32:49.328 bit but it's the kind of show that I want to, 00:32:49.468 --> 00:32:54.528 I don't mind doing that so that I expand my horizons a little bit. 00:32:54.668 --> 00:32:56.368 But more importantly, I enjoy the show. 00:32:57.588 --> 00:33:02.168 Yeah, and stepping away from English language, one of the ones that came to my mind was Pachinko. 00:33:02.348 --> 00:33:06.708 It's based on a novel, but it was, I think it was in Korean, 00:33:07.908 --> 00:33:11.868 or Japanese, and in English, different bits of it, wasn't it? 00:33:13.268 --> 00:33:20.788 And that was a you know that was quite I think quite a significant show so yeah all these things are, 00:33:21.909 --> 00:33:25.149 are worth having it's another way apple competes 00:33:25.149 --> 00:33:28.349 with netflix as well because netflix makes stuff in all global languages 00:33:28.349 --> 00:33:31.629 and it's huge uh in those kind of regional local 00:33:31.629 --> 00:33:37.949 shows so yeah it's interesting i don't think uh we can compare what what ruth 00:33:37.949 --> 00:33:43.009 uh jones and james cordon will compare to pachinko but it it should be quite 00:33:43.009 --> 00:33:49.249 fun it should bring some warmth it is i'm pleased they're kind of working together 00:33:49.249 --> 00:33:51.189 again, because they're obviously a good writing team. 00:33:51.469 --> 00:33:54.589 And, yeah, I look forward to that in kind of 18 months, two years. 00:33:55.989 --> 00:34:02.569 Well, think about the teams behind Ted Lasso and, you know, and the characters 00:34:02.569 --> 00:34:08.209 and some of the – it's almost like some of these actors are creating relationships with Apple. 00:34:09.169 --> 00:34:16.409 And to your point, you know, James Corden did. Brett Goldstein has to some degree. 00:34:18.049 --> 00:34:23.889 That to me says that they must be relatively easy to work with and I recognize 00:34:23.889 --> 00:34:27.529 that Apple is not necessarily the direct, 00:34:28.989 --> 00:34:33.909 studio but there's a relationship there that Apple is willing to pay for the 00:34:33.909 --> 00:34:38.629 talent the talent seems to like working in those environments. 00:34:38.829 --> 00:34:46.069 Well I suspect the checkbook helps Yeah it wasn't Apple Scarlett Johansson And 00:34:46.069 --> 00:34:51.069 what was the movie that she did that they decided not to put in the cinemas? 00:34:53.029 --> 00:35:02.189 Oh, I don't remember. What I do remember is there being stories about how Tim Cook leaving notes. 00:35:02.349 --> 00:35:05.789 This was years ago, right at the beginning of TV+, when it was worried we would 00:35:05.789 --> 00:35:11.429 see the Apple Control freakery leaving notes about do they have to swear so much or something. 00:35:11.669 --> 00:35:15.089 I think a lot of that has gone. so maybe 00:35:15.089 --> 00:35:18.109 our Apple are you know easy enough 00:35:18.109 --> 00:35:22.809 to work with us as I suspect the checkbook helps quite a lot as well oh absolutely 00:35:22.809 --> 00:35:28.829 absolutely and to Apple's credit that you're right that was a huge concern because 00:35:28.829 --> 00:35:34.589 it in today's world frankly just a lot of those kind of shows wouldn't sell 00:35:34.589 --> 00:35:37.749 nearly as well because they appear borderline unrealistic. 00:35:39.913 --> 00:35:43.053 So lots going on. 00:35:43.433 --> 00:35:48.313 Yeah, it's fun to watch. It's fun to bat it about and see what happens in a few months. 00:35:49.693 --> 00:35:52.933 We certainly will. I look forward to hearing more about that. 00:35:53.133 --> 00:35:55.273 James Corden, Ruth Jones show. 00:35:55.673 --> 00:35:58.933 Well, Chuck, we've rattled through a whole load of stuff again. 00:35:59.033 --> 00:36:00.173 Where can people keep up with you? 00:36:00.633 --> 00:36:05.213 They can find me over at macvoices.com. That's where I talk to a lot of interesting 00:36:05.213 --> 00:36:07.433 people, have some great panel discussions. 00:36:08.593 --> 00:36:13.353 And also you can find TV Plus Talk over there as well. And on the socials, 00:36:13.433 --> 00:36:16.533 I'm at Chalk Joyner. Charlotte, where can folks connect with you? 00:36:17.473 --> 00:36:20.813 Yes, I'm at Charlotte A. Henry across social media. 00:36:21.173 --> 00:36:26.413 Head over to theedition.net for blog posts, live blogs, podcasts, 00:36:27.073 --> 00:36:29.773 some video, and most importantly, the newsletter. 00:36:29.773 --> 00:36:35.513 I'd love it if you signed up over there to get my paid newsletter a couple of 00:36:35.513 --> 00:36:40.113 times a week covering all things at the crossover of culture, media, and sport. 00:36:40.273 --> 00:36:44.453 As I mentioned, I have a book coming out in October called Streaming Wars. 00:36:44.453 --> 00:36:48.613 You can buy it basically wherever you like to order your books from. 00:36:48.773 --> 00:36:54.453 So if you enjoy our conversation about streaming, you might well enjoy that book as well. 00:36:54.673 --> 00:36:59.573 We'll be back in a couple of weeks and we'll see you then. Thanks for watching.