WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.320 Music. 00:00:10.166 --> 00:00:13.246 And welcome to the edition podcast. 00:00:13.786 --> 00:00:19.106 I'm your host, Charlotte Henry, and I'm really pleased to be joined by my friend 00:00:19.106 --> 00:00:22.006 and friend of the show, Kelly Gamont. Hello, Kelly. 00:00:22.626 --> 00:00:26.866 Hello, Charlotte. It's always a pleasure to be here. Welcome back once again. 00:00:28.586 --> 00:00:34.466 Isn't this fun? We've got our main topic to talk about, which I do want to talk about. 00:00:34.466 --> 00:00:40.086 But just before I hit record on this, I saw some quite interesting news pop 00:00:40.086 --> 00:00:44.746 up from earlier the day we were recording this, earlier today. 00:00:44.986 --> 00:00:51.286 And it is that Digg, if you remember, D-I-double-G, is on its way back. 00:00:52.506 --> 00:01:00.026 And this time, Kevin Rose is being assisted by Alexis Ahanian, who made Reddit. 00:01:00.026 --> 00:01:03.126 Yeah and also isn't he serena 00:01:03.126 --> 00:01:06.046 williams inferior he is he is 00:01:06.046 --> 00:01:09.226 yes he is uh aka mr serena 00:01:09.226 --> 00:01:14.886 williams mr serena williams that's what i thought yes okay so that's quite fun 00:01:14.886 --> 00:01:18.446 and i get the feeling she was awfully tired of having him around the house all 00:01:18.446 --> 00:01:24.846 day all day long can you like i'm here now you're here now let's go let's let's 00:01:24.846 --> 00:01:27.906 see what we can do about that yeah let's let's don't you I have a friend doing 00:01:27.906 --> 00:01:28.646 something interesting, 00:01:28.846 --> 00:01:32.046 can you go get in on that? Don't you have someone else to play? 00:01:34.445 --> 00:01:37.785 Yes. So that's happening. And I think it's interesting, I think, 00:01:37.805 --> 00:01:43.665 as a media story, because so much of this, we're told the creator economy, 00:01:43.965 --> 00:01:49.765 et cetera, et cetera, is all about posting to a platform, handing your content over to a platform. 00:01:50.645 --> 00:01:54.785 Whereas Dig and Reddit, and Reddit still is really thriving, 00:01:54.945 --> 00:01:59.025 actually, are about linking back 00:01:59.025 --> 00:02:03.125 to other work normally on a website that you may or may not have made. 00:02:03.125 --> 00:02:05.845 Yeah more of an aggregator like the things that 00:02:05.845 --> 00:02:09.345 are popular is uh you know the it the 00:02:09.345 --> 00:02:12.345 point of reddit and similarly the point of dig you know 00:02:12.345 --> 00:02:15.285 when i used to spend a lot of time there is more commentary about 00:02:15.285 --> 00:02:17.925 the thing that's happening um and that's the thing 00:02:17.925 --> 00:02:20.885 that i that that made it interesting was it was only 00:02:20.885 --> 00:02:25.285 dig was only as good as the community around whatever 00:02:25.285 --> 00:02:28.745 the thing was people were discussing and reddit much 00:02:28.745 --> 00:02:31.545 the same way for good or ill you know as as 00:02:31.545 --> 00:02:34.285 we know uh the internet can be a wonderful 00:02:34.285 --> 00:02:37.345 place the internet can be a terrible place uh i've heard 00:02:37.345 --> 00:02:40.665 both things yeah yes uh reddit has facilitated 00:02:40.665 --> 00:02:43.345 in both directions sure um that's a 00:02:43.345 --> 00:02:46.005 pretty objective thing to say there's no there's no heat in 00:02:46.005 --> 00:02:49.005 that take no no and i just i suspect even 00:02:49.005 --> 00:02:52.065 people that work at reddit would be quite comfortable saying 00:02:52.065 --> 00:02:55.465 the same thing yeah and um you know 00:02:55.465 --> 00:02:58.645 reddit did go through a rough patch because they sold everything off to 00:02:58.645 --> 00:03:06.245 feed llms and to go public and all that kind of stuff so um i'm curious what 00:03:06.245 --> 00:03:13.865 digs uh approach is going to be to that kind of thing um given that one of the 00:03:13.865 --> 00:03:18.365 people doing it is is the guy that was responsible for feeding the. 00:03:18.725 --> 00:03:24.385 LLM and you know selling off that data over Reddit so I am going to be interested 00:03:24.385 --> 00:03:28.605 to see about that one thing that has been interest that one thing that will 00:03:28.605 --> 00:03:36.745 be interesting about Dig's return is that when Dig was a thing initially there was not the. 00:03:38.389 --> 00:03:45.029 Social media wasn't as ingrained in people's lives as it was when Digg was the thing. 00:03:45.349 --> 00:03:49.729 Right. And if you read the New York Times conversation that they just published 00:03:49.729 --> 00:03:54.349 with Alexis Ohanian and Kevin Rose, they're sort of hinting at that, 00:03:54.429 --> 00:03:56.409 that everything's become quite toxic. 00:03:56.609 --> 00:04:02.089 Everything's become very sometimes context free, sometimes just a very back and forth. 00:04:02.249 --> 00:04:07.969 And they're hoping something like this can, you know, reframe the conversation 00:04:07.969 --> 00:04:11.129 a bit. and I'm kind of for it. I'm curious to see it. 00:04:11.289 --> 00:04:13.709 I want to know. I want it to succeed. 00:04:13.929 --> 00:04:18.349 Yeah. I really liked Dig, OG Dig back in the day. 00:04:19.449 --> 00:04:24.849 It was a great place, but it was a place that, like, the people who would get 00:04:24.849 --> 00:04:33.029 on Dig today is a much wider variety of people than the people who were on Dig originally. Sure. 00:04:34.249 --> 00:04:39.349 So, you know, the line we sort of jokingly used to draw, you know, 00:04:39.509 --> 00:04:42.949 was that was before Oprah joined Twitter, you know, when social media sort of 00:04:42.949 --> 00:04:46.569 went to the masses, when you could start seeing people read stuff off of Twitter on CNN, 00:04:46.849 --> 00:04:49.949 on other news networks, on news shows and things. 00:04:51.613 --> 00:04:54.953 And Dig is similar in that way. 00:04:55.093 --> 00:05:02.593 So I think it will be interesting to see who ends up there and that sort of thing. 00:05:02.753 --> 00:05:08.253 Because there's also been a lot of resistance to someone else owning that content. 00:05:08.733 --> 00:05:13.053 Much like Reddit, people were like, I never wanted my account. 00:05:13.673 --> 00:05:17.373 And there are technical discussions. like as part 00:05:17.373 --> 00:05:20.273 of my day job in apple it i have found a great number 00:05:20.273 --> 00:05:23.773 of things that people have posted on reddit and discussed that were 00:05:23.773 --> 00:05:26.693 super useful yeah yeah in case and 00:05:26.693 --> 00:05:29.753 you know like there are so many things in some of those those 00:05:29.753 --> 00:05:32.433 subreddits that were you know 00:05:32.433 --> 00:05:35.073 i'm posting this here in case anyone else runs into this thing if you 00:05:35.073 --> 00:05:37.733 have this weird error and it happens on a tuesday when the 00:05:37.733 --> 00:05:40.613 moon is full make sure that you do the following steps but 00:05:40.613 --> 00:05:43.653 only stand on your left foot and then it'll be fine whatever it 00:05:43.653 --> 00:05:46.293 was close the window so you the computer can't see the 00:05:46.293 --> 00:05:49.373 moon right and so you do these things 00:05:49.373 --> 00:05:53.053 like so you find these things and they're super useful and 00:05:53.053 --> 00:05:56.153 people weren't posting people were sort of presuming 00:05:56.153 --> 00:05:58.833 some sort of ownership over that information and that 00:05:58.833 --> 00:06:01.893 it wasn't ever going to be a thing that was going to be sold to make someone 00:06:01.893 --> 00:06:07.913 else money and so that's why i'm curious how dig is going to go about this um 00:06:07.913 --> 00:06:14.673 because if you are starting anything that's going to allow anybody to sign up 00:06:14.673 --> 00:06:16.933 in the year of our Beyonce 2025. 00:06:18.213 --> 00:06:21.653 Then you need to consider moderation and 00:06:21.653 --> 00:06:24.473 you need to consider a business 00:06:24.473 --> 00:06:27.693 model it can't just be we're gonna stream ads 00:06:27.693 --> 00:06:30.493 into everybody's timeline and call it a day and hope that we make enough 00:06:30.493 --> 00:06:34.273 money off of it like that's probably not going to be an effective model anymore 00:06:34.273 --> 00:06:39.973 so I want to see how very much true yeah yeah and because you also have the 00:06:39.973 --> 00:06:46.533 resistance from people who are tired of um oh no not up to yeah well not only 00:06:46.533 --> 00:06:48.913 it's sign up fatigue but um. 00:06:50.341 --> 00:06:54.461 I am not a fan of somebody else owning my data. I don't want to spend a bunch 00:06:54.461 --> 00:06:59.141 of time on a site where somebody can decide content moderation doesn't matter, 00:06:59.521 --> 00:07:05.381 and so people are getting threatened and doxxed and all the bad stuff, 00:07:06.001 --> 00:07:09.641 all of the seedy underbelly of the internet, avoiding all of that. 00:07:09.741 --> 00:07:11.981 And there are going to be a lot of people who are automatically not interested 00:07:11.981 --> 00:07:15.561 as a result of exactly that sort of thing. 00:07:15.621 --> 00:07:19.001 So that's why I kind of wonder how they're going to go about this. 00:07:19.741 --> 00:07:24.581 And, you know, and I want it to succeed. I hope it's great. I really liked Dig as a resource. 00:07:26.281 --> 00:07:32.181 So if you're interested in this, you can head to reboot.dig.com and you can 00:07:32.181 --> 00:07:33.421 sign up for an invite there. 00:07:33.701 --> 00:07:36.641 It's obviously going to take a little bit of time. Kelly's now doing this literally 00:07:36.641 --> 00:07:40.101 as I'm saying this, because of course she is. 00:07:40.281 --> 00:07:42.861 I'm typing very quietly. I didn't think you could tell. 00:07:45.101 --> 00:07:50.801 Reboot.dig.com is where you can go to to check out uh the new version that's 00:07:50.801 --> 00:07:55.181 on its way back um the main thing i wanted to talk to this kind of does feed 00:07:55.181 --> 00:08:03.381 into it really there's just so much stuff kelly yeah our media world. 00:08:04.441 --> 00:08:07.341 Is saturated i'm not talking 00:08:07.341 --> 00:08:11.181 about the peak tv thing which people are sort of saying oh 00:08:11.181 --> 00:08:14.041 there's just so much good stuff that there is a bit of 00:08:14.041 --> 00:08:17.561 that yeah but for me this is go 00:08:17.561 --> 00:08:21.561 beyond that it's like 00:08:21.561 --> 00:08:24.781 there's yes 00:08:24.781 --> 00:08:28.121 there's so much to watch right there's so many streaming 00:08:28.121 --> 00:08:31.241 services there's youtube there's tiktok there's 00:08:31.241 --> 00:08:34.661 instagram there's etc etc etc so 00:08:34.661 --> 00:08:38.101 there's all of that going on then there's we're just 00:08:38.101 --> 00:08:43.321 swamped with media whether it's as i say streaming reading online news listening 00:08:43.321 --> 00:08:48.881 to podcasts reading books all of things that i want to spend my time doing yeah 00:08:48.881 --> 00:08:54.861 but there are many of them kelly oh so many uh less and obviously that is a rather, 00:08:55.901 --> 00:08:59.101 obvious statement but i think our media age 00:08:59.101 --> 00:09:02.901 of this sort of over not over 00:09:02.901 --> 00:09:05.921 consumption and also you know all endless 00:09:05.921 --> 00:09:08.861 offering yeah we sort 00:09:08.861 --> 00:09:11.921 of take it for granted now and sometimes we need to step back and look 00:09:11.921 --> 00:09:17.501 at that and the effect it's having and why yeah I mean let's start with the 00:09:17.501 --> 00:09:24.621 basics and you can confess this this is a safe space don't laugh it is no I 00:09:24.621 --> 00:09:26.561 believe you how many what you 00:09:26.561 --> 00:09:31.161 want me to convince yeah how many streaming services are you signed up for. 00:09:32.801 --> 00:09:34.181 Uh let's see um. 00:09:38.074 --> 00:09:40.814 Well that's a lot of thinking that's a worrying amount of 00:09:40.814 --> 00:09:43.794 thinking no i just because because sometimes they 00:09:43.794 --> 00:09:46.914 change and so it's it's usually like four so yeah so you're 00:09:46.914 --> 00:09:50.294 saying four yeah four of them okay i'm not 00:09:50.294 --> 00:09:53.354 going to confess my number i'm just gonna say 00:09:53.354 --> 00:09:58.434 it's all of them yes the answer is yes is what you're saying the answer is yes 00:09:58.434 --> 00:10:05.994 and i justify it because i need it for work yeah I must have all the things 00:10:05.994 --> 00:10:10.414 correct but because of that I really can see how intently, 00:10:11.954 --> 00:10:15.114 the amount of stuff we have and also 00:10:15.114 --> 00:10:17.954 how hard it is to keep up and I'm not 00:10:17.954 --> 00:10:20.714 sure it's particularly good for us I'm particularly good for 00:10:20.714 --> 00:10:23.574 our psyche it absolutely is not 00:10:23.574 --> 00:10:26.514 like I mean there've been i've seen studies 00:10:26.514 --> 00:10:29.954 on oh yeah um yeah on um 00:10:29.954 --> 00:10:37.154 uh not just news consumption although that is one particular avenue that um 00:10:37.154 --> 00:10:42.274 should get more attention um there is you know there's being informed and there's 00:10:42.274 --> 00:10:47.014 being obsessed and they're and they're different um. 00:10:47.914 --> 00:10:51.954 And especially because there is so much information available. 00:10:52.194 --> 00:10:57.394 Like it used to be that, you know, you would only know what you would only be. 00:10:57.534 --> 00:11:02.974 You could only be obsessively informed on what was happening in your city or in your state. Right. 00:11:03.634 --> 00:11:07.214 Or in your region. If you live in New England, where all the states are very 00:11:07.214 --> 00:11:11.194 tiny and you can walk across one at a brisk pace in an afternoon or whatever. 00:11:11.534 --> 00:11:14.214 You know, out west, we don't. There's a little less of that. 00:11:14.494 --> 00:11:17.214 People in New England send your angry letters to Kelly. 00:11:17.954 --> 00:11:22.014 Yes, you can print those out and feed them right to your friendly neighborhood shredder. 00:11:22.454 --> 00:11:26.654 Now you can get all of that information about every city, every state, 00:11:26.854 --> 00:11:31.394 every country, every region, everywhere, forever, at whatever time. 00:11:31.614 --> 00:11:34.194 You wake up in the middle of the night, you can go get that. 00:11:34.354 --> 00:11:37.894 And the problem is twofold in those cases. 00:11:38.314 --> 00:11:42.994 Because it also means there's no opportunity for people to not be doing anything. 00:11:43.214 --> 00:11:48.254 To just be bored. to be, I'm going to sit and read a book on paper, 00:11:48.494 --> 00:11:51.574 I'm going to sit and stare out the window for a few minutes, 00:11:52.154 --> 00:11:56.994 you know, kind of finding yourself at loose ends and not really engaging in any media at all. 00:11:57.394 --> 00:12:01.514 And which is also good for your brain, you know, think your own thoughts and, 00:12:01.514 --> 00:12:06.614 and have instead of just scrolling, you know, out of reflex or anything like that. 00:12:06.734 --> 00:12:10.614 And, you know, that's a different thing that can also, you know, 00:12:10.794 --> 00:12:13.714 really mess with your brain aside from the the 00:12:13.714 --> 00:12:16.734 mental health fallout of look how everyone's life 00:12:16.734 --> 00:12:19.754 is better than mine because look at all these beautiful people on instagram 00:12:19.754 --> 00:12:26.554 you know and like everything down the regular social media path aside from um 00:12:26.554 --> 00:12:31.794 you know tv shows i've i'm not keeping up on this tv show and so i can't be 00:12:31.794 --> 00:12:36.014 part of any conversation that's happening in my world right now because 00:12:36.454 --> 00:12:39.554 it came out Thursday and I haven't seen it yet. 00:12:39.614 --> 00:12:45.374 So I can't talk to anybody until that happens because I don't want them to give it away, whatever. 00:12:46.774 --> 00:12:48.634 And we used to have a little bit of that. 00:12:49.462 --> 00:12:55.822 But the the number of avenues for conversation when lost was the primary thing, 00:12:56.002 --> 00:12:58.882 you know, is such a different number than it is now. 00:12:59.842 --> 00:13:03.602 And, you know, and those kinds of things, you know, also make a difference. 00:13:03.802 --> 00:13:06.982 And so it like it's a thing I've tried to be more mindful of, 00:13:07.062 --> 00:13:10.982 of like, I don't have to, you know, I I love an audio book. 00:13:11.122 --> 00:13:16.162 I love to read and I don't care how I enjoy it. I just finished a book that 00:13:16.162 --> 00:13:20.022 was fantastic that I can't wait to go tell everyone I know about and have them go read it. 00:13:20.742 --> 00:13:24.762 But, um, you know, at the same time, like I also need to take a little time 00:13:24.762 --> 00:13:29.942 and not be listening to a book or a podcast or watching a TV show and just sort 00:13:29.942 --> 00:13:33.762 of sit with my own thoughts and, and, you know, that kind of thing. 00:13:33.862 --> 00:13:38.482 So it's, it's a, it's kind of a problem of both at once, you know, 00:13:38.562 --> 00:13:41.262 and like you and I move in, in similar circles, you know, 00:13:41.302 --> 00:13:44.422 we've kind of had like you know everybody kind of has the conversation of like 00:13:44.422 --> 00:13:47.182 can we all just agree that we don't have time in 00:13:47.182 --> 00:13:50.042 our lives to listen to everybody else's podcasts I know we're friends 00:13:50.042 --> 00:13:52.942 and I love you but I don't have time to listen to ever to all 00:13:52.942 --> 00:13:55.642 of whoever's content right like there you know 00:13:55.642 --> 00:13:59.122 there's some of that you know that has to happen because 00:13:59.122 --> 00:14:02.042 you and I live in and operate in 00:14:02.042 --> 00:14:05.042 similar circles I also find it a bit hypocritical of 00:14:05.042 --> 00:14:07.922 me to be having this conversation because 00:14:07.922 --> 00:14:10.882 i'm adding to the noise no i 00:14:10.882 --> 00:14:13.642 put out newsletters i put out podcasts i put out social 00:14:13.642 --> 00:14:16.462 media content i post on a website i want 00:14:16.462 --> 00:14:20.022 people to read and engage with it yeah of course 00:14:20.022 --> 00:14:25.802 i do of course yeah once you've done that and of course you should read my newsletter 00:14:25.802 --> 00:14:30.722 uh pay for the newsletter so you get all of it listen to the podcast because 00:14:30.722 --> 00:14:34.362 i have fab guests like kelly you should just go and lie in a dark room a little 00:14:34.362 --> 00:14:37.102 bit or go and smell some flowers or something Oh, yeah. 00:14:37.832 --> 00:14:40.872 Both things are okay yeah I think 00:14:40.872 --> 00:14:43.772 we have you ever had that in fact I know you've had this 00:14:43.772 --> 00:14:48.272 um that sensation where you walk into a bookshop and 00:14:48.272 --> 00:14:50.972 you see all the books and you're like oh my god there's so much 00:14:50.972 --> 00:14:54.712 to read I'm overwhelmed there's all the books uh 00:14:54.712 --> 00:14:59.232 I have that on the regular because Powell's Books is located in Portland and 00:14:59.232 --> 00:15:03.612 it is multiple stories the building takes up an entire city block uh you walk 00:15:03.612 --> 00:15:08.232 into Powell's and yeah Powell's prints its own map so that you can get to all 00:15:08.232 --> 00:15:11.932 the places for the different sections for the different books that you're interested in. 00:15:12.492 --> 00:15:18.172 It is a beautiful building, but yes, walk in there and no matter which door 00:15:18.172 --> 00:15:20.772 you use, you know, even if you're next to all the checkouts, 00:15:20.952 --> 00:15:25.072 like just anywhere that you are standing, that is more books than I have read in my life. 00:15:25.152 --> 00:15:30.112 And I'm a voracious reader and it is more books than I will ever read however long I end up living. 00:15:30.292 --> 00:15:33.912 But I think now everything gives us that sensation 00:15:33.912 --> 00:15:37.332 and again I'm saying this is a complete hypocrite 00:15:37.332 --> 00:15:40.992 as someone who wants people to read listen watch 00:15:40.992 --> 00:15:44.412 all the stuff I do yeah I like 00:15:44.412 --> 00:15:47.472 I'm aware of my hypocrisy but also I 00:15:47.472 --> 00:15:50.852 step back as someone that analyzes the media industry and is 00:15:50.852 --> 00:15:54.132 trying to pick apart like this complicated world 00:15:54.132 --> 00:15:57.012 of making stuff and seeing how much stuff 00:15:57.012 --> 00:16:00.712 there is out there and you know people 00:16:00.712 --> 00:16:04.132 say to me have you watch this show if you it's almost impossible now 00:16:04.132 --> 00:16:07.132 to keep up with what is going on across all the stream problems 00:16:07.132 --> 00:16:09.992 and as i said i literally do this as my job i 00:16:09.992 --> 00:16:14.912 try and keep up with all the things on the streaming services good bad and mega 00:16:14.912 --> 00:16:21.472 markle you are a big mcu fan i know this about you yeah and i i did start enjoy 00:16:21.472 --> 00:16:25.772 listen you may have noticed in a number of years talking with me about all sorts 00:16:25.772 --> 00:16:29.232 of things kelly i have what some might describe. 00:16:30.342 --> 00:16:37.262 As nerd-like tendencies uh yeah um i think i may have seen slight evidence of 00:16:37.262 --> 00:16:41.302 that occasionally some people have said this about me yeah so i did i mean i 00:16:41.302 --> 00:16:43.042 enjoyed many of the comics and. 00:16:44.682 --> 00:16:49.242 Some you know i did start watching many of the mcu movies when they started. 00:16:50.942 --> 00:16:57.062 Now there are many and then there are adjacent tv shows and so on and so forth, 00:16:57.942 --> 00:17:01.322 and it all feels a bit much and 00:17:01.322 --> 00:17:04.222 i know if i spent time on them most of 00:17:04.222 --> 00:17:06.902 them i would enjoy i actually got annoyed at much of 00:17:06.902 --> 00:17:09.882 the mcu because it felt to me like it was basically 00:17:09.882 --> 00:17:12.742 two and a half to three hours of my life building up to a 00:17:12.742 --> 00:17:15.642 post-credit scene pretty much yeah 00:17:15.642 --> 00:17:18.742 and i went through a stretch that was kind 00:17:18.742 --> 00:17:21.802 of going through the motions a little bit uh where 00:17:21.802 --> 00:17:25.202 it wasn't as much fun and you weren't getting the the the 00:17:25.202 --> 00:17:28.122 easter egg or the the reference you know 00:17:28.122 --> 00:17:31.362 uh because that was one of the first sort of larger universe things 00:17:31.362 --> 00:17:34.262 that we got you know cinematically which was great like when 00:17:34.262 --> 00:17:37.102 you're watching this there's this adjacent thing that's happening 00:17:37.102 --> 00:17:40.062 over here that you kind of get to pay attention to and then you know 00:17:40.062 --> 00:17:42.942 in a couple of years there's a whole movie about that little side thing that 00:17:42.942 --> 00:17:45.782 you saw for a minute here you know and that that stuff 00:17:45.782 --> 00:17:49.442 was really fun but you know um uh the 00:17:49.442 --> 00:17:52.342 reason you know i'm a fan of the mcu is because i had a podcast called 00:17:52.342 --> 00:17:55.882 i want my mcu tv right and um and 00:17:55.882 --> 00:17:58.702 on that show it was a thing that we discussed like i don't want 00:17:58.702 --> 00:18:03.802 to have to have i don't want there to be homework for my entertainment i don't 00:18:03.802 --> 00:18:08.902 want to have to watch 15 movies for this show to be good or interesting relevant 00:18:08.902 --> 00:18:14.122 or you know yeah something i can follow yeah i think that's right and i think 00:18:14.122 --> 00:18:15.982 really when i'm saying there's too much stuff. 00:18:16.442 --> 00:18:19.382 That's really is that feeling that i'm really getting at 00:18:19.382 --> 00:18:22.402 it's not that i don't like all the amazing creative work out 00:18:22.402 --> 00:18:25.182 there and i want to encourage people to do creative work 00:18:25.182 --> 00:18:28.162 obviously that's right but it's that sense in 00:18:28.162 --> 00:18:31.162 some places there is homework to do i think that's exactly 00:18:31.162 --> 00:18:34.002 it and and it and because there are 00:18:34.002 --> 00:18:37.022 so many you know an example i can give you um 00:18:37.022 --> 00:18:41.482 that that is something i'm sure you're you're well aware of since it comes from 00:18:41.482 --> 00:18:46.662 the same place you do is doctor who sure and how there are how there are a lot 00:18:46.662 --> 00:18:50.062 of people who are like i just am never going to watch Doctor Who because there's 00:18:50.062 --> 00:18:55.042 60 years of Doctor Who to watch and I can't I can't do it, 00:18:55.542 --> 00:18:59.902 or I don't want to I don't have time there's not time in my life to watch all 00:18:59.902 --> 00:19:04.122 of a show and so they do have certain break points which is nice so that people can. 00:19:04.482 --> 00:19:06.982 Yeah Doctor Who did that quite well there's pre-David Tennant and post-David 00:19:06.982 --> 00:19:09.002 Tennant but even that's quite a long time now. 00:19:09.808 --> 00:19:15.208 I know that. Yeah, it came back. I think it came back in 2005, I want to say. Yeah. 00:19:15.608 --> 00:19:18.788 With Christopher Eccleston. So that's a nice jumping on point. 00:19:19.668 --> 00:19:22.988 And Shrigatwa, the latest iteration, jumping on with him. 00:19:23.448 --> 00:19:27.028 You don't have to know anything in advance for any of that to be enjoyable. 00:19:27.308 --> 00:19:29.428 Sometimes places are really good at that. 00:19:30.488 --> 00:19:34.928 Sometimes the place where they say you can jump on, you can and you can keep 00:19:34.928 --> 00:19:36.628 up. Star Trek does a good job of that. 00:19:36.808 --> 00:19:41.608 You don't need to watch Next Generation to watch whatever, Deep Space Nine. 00:19:42.328 --> 00:19:46.248 Yeah, like some of them are a little more related. Picard makes more sense if 00:19:46.248 --> 00:19:48.428 you watched the other things featuring Picard. 00:19:48.768 --> 00:19:53.368 But, you know, not everything's a requirement. And Marvel got a little weighed 00:19:53.368 --> 00:19:58.008 down at one point with if you didn't watch everything already, 00:19:58.008 --> 00:19:59.488 this makes way less sense. 00:19:59.968 --> 00:20:03.328 But they've done a better job now of kind of breaking those up. 00:20:03.328 --> 00:20:06.308 So if you look for like what the phases are in the cinematic stuff 00:20:06.308 --> 00:20:09.268 you can kind of hop on at those points and see 00:20:09.268 --> 00:20:11.988 and have things make a little more sense the tv shows are 00:20:11.988 --> 00:20:14.888 pretty self-contained which is nice yeah i just basically got 00:20:14.888 --> 00:20:19.348 to the point of i don't want to have to watch 70 movies to go to the movies 00:20:19.348 --> 00:20:24.428 with my friends yeah also i remain furious they cancel she hulk thank you and 00:20:24.428 --> 00:20:31.428 good night yes 100 yes i'm wondering if we're getting to people's limit and 00:20:31.428 --> 00:20:33.968 people are now actively making decisions to step back. 00:20:35.474 --> 00:20:38.934 I would like to think that people would be making those decisions. 00:20:39.134 --> 00:20:42.514 I think we've absolutely reached that limit. I think that limit's been around for a long time. 00:20:44.394 --> 00:20:52.054 Yeah, because, I mean, I remember at one point us talking about Apple getting 00:20:52.054 --> 00:20:53.314 into the content business. 00:20:53.334 --> 00:20:56.594 That was the thing we used to say. What do you do when you reach the end of Apple TV? 00:20:56.934 --> 00:21:00.334 That was the thing we used to do. Then what's the appeal of continuing to subscribe? Yeah. 00:21:01.214 --> 00:21:04.594 You know, just as one of those examples of how times have changed. 00:21:04.594 --> 00:21:09.494 You know how things evolve over time um you know remember when apple came out 00:21:09.494 --> 00:21:14.614 with the first iphone and most people took one look at that and went who's going 00:21:14.614 --> 00:21:15.794 to carry around a phone that big. 00:21:16.974 --> 00:21:21.334 The first many people it turns out yeah 00:21:21.334 --> 00:21:24.334 um and well and and it continued to expand like you 00:21:24.334 --> 00:21:28.494 know you can measure that sucker in acres now like so 00:21:28.494 --> 00:21:31.494 uh you know um like that's 00:21:31.494 --> 00:21:34.294 you know those are the kinds of things i think about is like you know the way the way 00:21:34.294 --> 00:21:38.594 things have evolved over time and part of what part 00:21:38.594 --> 00:21:41.274 of what i hope is that people do realize there is 00:21:41.274 --> 00:21:44.334 a limit um and and do step 00:21:44.334 --> 00:21:47.734 back and even if it's just you know um one thing 00:21:47.734 --> 00:21:50.714 that's that's great about that used to be great about peak tv 00:21:50.714 --> 00:21:53.514 uh this is a personal rant of mine is that it all used 00:21:53.514 --> 00:21:56.254 it used to be fiction like everybody was talking about peak tv it was 00:21:56.254 --> 00:21:59.414 fiction it was made up stories we're watching you know 00:21:59.414 --> 00:22:04.994 uh mad men loosely based on reality you know um and then stuff that was not 00:22:04.994 --> 00:22:09.534 based on reality at all like well etc etc etc yeah game of thrones westworld 00:22:09.534 --> 00:22:13.514 you know all these kinds of things um you see you're naming shows i've never 00:22:13.514 --> 00:22:17.414 got into i'm now having a panic but i need to find time to watch them. 00:22:20.260 --> 00:22:23.460 I would say, you know, everything about Game of Thrones, you probably need to know at this moment. 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:27.320 If you are a fan of fantasy, you would have found a way in, you know, 00:22:27.520 --> 00:22:30.140 one way or another. That's something we need to discuss, by the way, 00:22:30.340 --> 00:22:32.220 because I have I have news for you, Kelly. 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:40.600 My personal rant is that a whole lot of science fiction, which is a place I 00:22:40.600 --> 00:22:43.880 like to go when I am checking out of the reality I live in, 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:49.100 has started to turn into documentaries about the world that I live in right 00:22:49.100 --> 00:22:50.600 now. And I don't want any of that. 00:22:50.760 --> 00:22:56.500 I want space and lasers and the pew pew and the good guys win and all that kind of stuff. 00:22:56.660 --> 00:23:03.400 And I don't need to see and I don't need to see current events mirrored quite so effectively. 00:23:04.300 --> 00:23:07.620 So, you know, I want things that are completely imaginary. And then when you 00:23:07.620 --> 00:23:13.000 add on top of just keeping up with television, because television is all pick and choose now. 00:23:13.000 --> 00:23:15.800 You know most people aren't watching things on you know the things that 00:23:15.800 --> 00:23:19.100 people are talking about the most that I have found are not 00:23:19.100 --> 00:23:22.220 things that are on broadcast television nobody's talking about something that 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:26.760 you can tune into NBC and watch but that has been nobody's talking about CBS 00:23:26.760 --> 00:23:31.180 a long long time there's no oh my god I've got to get back to watch Will and 00:23:31.180 --> 00:23:36.140 Grace at nine o'clock on a Thursday or whatever right exactly exactly oh my 00:23:36.140 --> 00:23:38.880 god and so but what happens if I miss the beginning Those are all on. 00:23:40.340 --> 00:23:43.280 Right. And those are those are things that are. 00:23:44.719 --> 00:23:47.739 That make it more complicated because like oh 00:23:47.739 --> 00:23:50.839 well that one's on prime video I don't have prime video um you 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.739 know so how do I watch it can I watch it does it matter to 00:23:53.739 --> 00:23:56.939 me that much you know what kind of links do I have to go to so 00:23:56.939 --> 00:23:59.839 it also makes it a little harder to get into some things because it's 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.679 maybe it's not on a service you subscribe to currently if 00:24:02.679 --> 00:24:05.379 you aren't Charlotte so then you have to make that 00:24:05.379 --> 00:24:08.519 decision um you know and and podcasts 00:24:08.519 --> 00:24:11.459 are the same way like nobody's gonna nobody's gonna 00:24:11.459 --> 00:24:14.959 hear every episode of every podcast that is out there um 00:24:14.959 --> 00:24:17.619 whatever it is and it's the kind of thing where you just sort of 00:24:17.619 --> 00:24:20.479 have to dive in and find the 00:24:20.479 --> 00:24:24.099 things that you like and that you appreciate and 00:24:24.099 --> 00:24:28.139 and you know yeah i mean i think the companies behind 00:24:28.139 --> 00:24:31.379 all of this have i don't know overplayed 00:24:31.379 --> 00:24:34.639 their hand because look they are in the market of making stuff 00:24:34.639 --> 00:24:37.639 that's what they do i do it on a micro level they 00:24:37.639 --> 00:24:40.439 do it on a mega level they make stuff and that's cool 00:24:40.439 --> 00:24:43.459 that's what they're there right but they now have 00:24:43.459 --> 00:24:46.359 almost infinite capacity to put out 00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:49.219 stuff i mean that's not quite true in 00:24:49.219 --> 00:24:53.079 such you know you can put as much stuff as you can type onto a website basically 00:24:53.079 --> 00:24:59.219 you can the limit you know there are budget limits to what tv shows you can 00:24:59.219 --> 00:25:03.459 produce but there's no real limit to how much you can put on a streaming service 00:25:03.459 --> 00:25:09.199 ultimately exactly um and so that's how they're thinking. 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:13.119 Which in many ways is great for us as consumers right because there's always 00:25:13.119 --> 00:25:18.019 a show you want to watch there's always a new movie you haven't seen i mean 00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:23.199 there's books on any subject you could possibly ever want and that is all great 00:25:23.199 --> 00:25:26.659 but there is i think i think actually this is. 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:30.499 When we come back to the beginning of 00:25:30.499 --> 00:25:34.179 our this show things like dig and read it there is 00:25:34.179 --> 00:25:37.459 almost a lack of curation and i've noticed that 00:25:37.459 --> 00:25:40.419 a lot of the things that are most popular are you know 00:25:40.419 --> 00:25:43.979 newsletters that curate the stuff and i 00:25:43.979 --> 00:25:46.959 think that's a really important element because i'm really really 00:25:46.959 --> 00:25:50.399 not saying don't make tv shows 00:25:50.399 --> 00:25:53.599 movies books podcasts believe me i'm not 00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:00.819 saying that otherwise i would have nothing to do with my days um but but it's 00:26:00.819 --> 00:26:07.179 it's a really important and it's one element of all of this that we need to 00:26:07.179 --> 00:26:12.359 navigate i think right yeah absolutely and um, 00:26:12.899 --> 00:26:17.199 and the the curation part of it is key and you know talking about like it being 00:26:17.199 --> 00:26:20.759 infinite you know people can you know any any streaming service can go put out 00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:24.079 an infinite number of things but they can also take them away so there are shows 00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:28.999 i haven't finished because they were we saw this with david zaslov when he took over. 00:26:31.243 --> 00:26:34.903 Yeah. So there are shows that have been disappeared on services that like I 00:26:34.903 --> 00:26:37.163 was watching and it's gone now. 00:26:39.403 --> 00:26:44.303 Every season of Sesame Street, for example, used to be available on HBO and 00:26:44.303 --> 00:26:48.323 a whole bunch of them dropped off because it was. 00:26:48.463 --> 00:26:50.883 I read about this. People are upset about it. To keep all of them on there. 00:26:51.403 --> 00:26:54.883 Yeah, they should be because it's Sesame Street. What do you have to be mad 00:26:54.883 --> 00:26:56.203 about with Sesame Street? 00:26:56.483 --> 00:26:59.663 People should be allowed to go watch every episode of Sesame Street. 00:26:59.663 --> 00:27:02.603 That should be one of the things that makes the internet great and 00:27:02.603 --> 00:27:05.623 right now it totally isn't so anyway because we're 00:27:05.623 --> 00:27:09.163 gonna do this curatorial function what 00:27:09.163 --> 00:27:13.023 are you watching at the moment kelly uh severance 00:27:13.023 --> 00:27:15.983 um it took me a long time to 00:27:15.983 --> 00:27:18.863 get into severance this is on apple tv 00:27:18.863 --> 00:27:21.943 plus yes on apple tv plus um i 00:27:21.943 --> 00:27:25.003 don't know what it was that made me resist it to begin 00:27:25.003 --> 00:27:27.703 with i don't know it was so much active resistance as it was i 00:27:27.703 --> 00:27:31.503 just sort of wasn't getting around to it because i was watching other things um 00:27:31.503 --> 00:27:34.403 she says wearing a t-shirt that says ted biscuit ted's 00:27:34.403 --> 00:27:37.323 biscuits across the front it's a pink box and a green army man 00:27:37.323 --> 00:27:40.603 um so uh i'm 00:27:40.603 --> 00:27:44.023 watching severance and really enjoying it because um i'm 00:27:44.023 --> 00:27:46.923 going back through it now i i'm caught 00:27:46.923 --> 00:27:49.763 up on on all but the most recent episode 00:27:49.763 --> 00:27:52.443 um and then um but i've been going 00:27:52.443 --> 00:27:55.743 back through it with mr kelly and watching from the beginning because i 00:27:55.743 --> 00:27:58.523 told him he should watch it and of course he didn't listen me so someone else told him he should 00:27:58.523 --> 00:28:01.803 be watching it and he said apparently I need to check out this show so 00:28:01.803 --> 00:28:04.783 uh we've been watching that um I've been 00:28:04.783 --> 00:28:07.983 watching Lower Decks Star Trek Lower Decks on Paramount Plus 00:28:07.983 --> 00:28:10.723 uh which is a show that I 00:28:10.723 --> 00:28:14.183 love and I love it so much uh. 00:28:14.183 --> 00:28:17.403 Part of why I love it is because you can feel the 00:28:17.403 --> 00:28:20.343 joy that everyone working on 00:28:20.343 --> 00:28:25.703 that show has all the voice acting all of the animation all of the the artwork 00:28:25.703 --> 00:28:30.563 in it all of the little wink and nod jokes like i'm sure there there's a whole 00:28:30.563 --> 00:28:33.843 bunch of them that are just sliding right off because i'm not the i'm not the 00:28:33.843 --> 00:28:38.163 in-depth track fan so there's probably references i'm missing but it's so good. 00:28:39.223 --> 00:28:42.143 And and so well made and 00:28:42.143 --> 00:28:45.223 so perfectly fits into that universe and it's just 00:28:45.223 --> 00:28:50.983 such a fun show to watch and it's just it just warms my heart to to get to see 00:28:50.983 --> 00:28:55.103 them and like so many people i'm just sad i'm sad that it's over because the 00:28:55.103 --> 00:28:59.323 the most recent season they released was the last one um i'm also working through 00:28:59.323 --> 00:29:04.083 discovery yeah i've got a lot of star trek which is a lot of fun, 00:29:04.623 --> 00:29:10.983 uh waiting for andor um i am the next season of andor i am super anticipating 00:29:10.983 --> 00:29:15.443 a show that i don't think a lot of people um have paid attention to and that 00:29:15.443 --> 00:29:18.063 is uh the the righteous gemstones, 00:29:18.823 --> 00:29:23.063 which is a glorious show is that what it's called on uh hbo max okay. 00:29:24.600 --> 00:29:27.820 Um is star yeah the righteous gemstones 00:29:27.820 --> 00:29:30.860 um uh it stars 00:29:30.860 --> 00:29:33.880 john goodman as the patriarch of this family 00:29:33.880 --> 00:29:36.700 uh and they are uh he's a 00:29:36.700 --> 00:29:40.260 preacher at like a super ultra mega church like 00:29:40.260 --> 00:29:43.360 it feels like it's even more mega church than most mega churches 00:29:43.360 --> 00:29:46.940 kind of are they're southern and it's him and 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.480 his uh goofy family that's all 00:29:50.480 --> 00:29:54.240 ridiculous uh it was created by um Danny 00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.100 McBride he also plays one yeah it looks like it's available on now 00:29:58.100 --> 00:30:00.760 tv here in the UK so those are the 00:30:00.760 --> 00:30:03.500 Kelly recommendations yeah that's a 00:30:03.500 --> 00:30:06.480 great and it's it is I will let 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.400 me give you the disclaimer that it is absolutely not for everybody watch 00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:13.000 the first couple of episodes and if it is absolutely not 00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:17.980 for you then bounce because it just ends up being more of the same we had this 00:30:17.980 --> 00:30:22.940 conversation about dickinson like you will know very clearly like they they've 00:30:22.940 --> 00:30:26.000 laid all their cards out on the table in the first couple of episodes if you 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:30.720 watch those first couple and you go i would be hate watching this show yeah. 00:30:31.460 --> 00:30:34.740 If it seems like a thing that you'd be interested in yeah if 00:30:34.740 --> 00:30:38.280 it seems at all like something that is entertaining to you absolutely stick 00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:41.880 with it you are in for a ride and it is weird 00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.980 and dark and hilarious and it 00:30:45.980 --> 00:30:48.880 it's absolutely it's so much well i i'm grateful 00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.920 for those recommendations and adding to my to watch list 00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.700 um which i always appreciate um i 00:30:55.700 --> 00:30:58.580 put in my newsletter regularly what i'm watching reading listening 00:30:58.580 --> 00:31:02.000 to so i hope people appreciate that because as 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.760 i say i really am the opposite of someone that 00:31:04.760 --> 00:31:08.980 you know doesn't want new stuff obviously i 00:31:08.980 --> 00:31:12.160 just yeah i wonder what 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:15.780 it's doing to us to have access to 00:31:15.780 --> 00:31:18.940 all this stuff and i think that's a really interesting 00:31:18.940 --> 00:31:21.640 thing to explore um and i 00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:26.020 i hope that something we do in the edition is keep exploring that and navigating 00:31:26.020 --> 00:31:31.320 that and so on let me ask you this uh how do you keep how do you keep track 00:31:31.320 --> 00:31:36.480 of the things that you watch or want to do you have i do not there are some 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.160 apps that do this aren't there Yeah. 00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:42.120 Do you have a recommendation of one that you like? 00:31:43.433 --> 00:31:46.353 Uh i just got into one that a friend of mine recommended to 00:31:46.353 --> 00:31:51.033 me called q q-u-e-u-e oh yeah and and 00:31:51.033 --> 00:31:55.133 it's um uh it's primarily for uh 00:31:55.133 --> 00:31:58.633 television like tv and movies and things um i 00:31:58.633 --> 00:32:01.433 do have a different app that i use for everything because 00:32:01.433 --> 00:32:04.133 you can put and it's got different lists that you can make 00:32:04.133 --> 00:32:07.233 for books music um video games all 00:32:07.233 --> 00:32:10.233 kinds of things and it's called sofa and so 00:32:10.233 --> 00:32:13.513 i'm gonna anytime somebody gives me something i drop 00:32:13.513 --> 00:32:17.973 it in there and then like if i'm if i'm at loose ends i just finished whatever 00:32:17.973 --> 00:32:22.473 show i was watching and now i'm looking for a new thing to watch um and it's 00:32:22.473 --> 00:32:26.073 not a moment where i feel like i need to go back and watch ted lasso again because 00:32:26.073 --> 00:32:33.493 that's the thing i do regularly um it is it's my favorite show i mean you know um. 00:32:33.933 --> 00:32:36.753 But you can uh you can you can track everything there 00:32:36.753 --> 00:32:39.373 so uh like i have you know i have a 00:32:39.373 --> 00:32:42.953 nintendo switch mr kelly is ps5 um when 00:32:42.953 --> 00:32:45.993 people recommend games to me or things like that i do 00:32:45.993 --> 00:32:49.473 think that's really important because books yeah 00:32:49.473 --> 00:32:52.213 yeah stuff we need to like find a way 00:32:52.213 --> 00:32:54.893 of enjoying all the things that we have some of which 00:32:54.893 --> 00:33:01.393 is so great as good as we've ever had without and yeah negate that overwhelmed 00:33:01.393 --> 00:33:05.033 bookshop feeling i think that's really what i'm getting at with this shirt this 00:33:05.033 --> 00:33:11.133 episode actually so yeah that that's where we are now tell me kelly where else 00:33:11.133 --> 00:33:13.473 can people keep up with all your things you do. 00:33:17.539 --> 00:33:20.579 Well, sometimes I'm on the sofa just watching television. 00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:27.859 You can also find me on, if you don't have enough podcasts to listen to already, 00:33:28.139 --> 00:33:33.939 you can find me on The After Show at aftershowpodcast.com, which is a show I do with Mike Rose. 00:33:34.419 --> 00:33:42.019 The two of us decided to continue podcasting after the unofficial Apple weblog ended its run. 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:47.639 And so the two of us keep up whenever our schedules collide in a fashion where 00:33:47.639 --> 00:33:49.799 we can find an hour to sit and chit chat. We will do that. 00:33:50.719 --> 00:33:57.079 You can find me playing Pokemon Go the rest of the time. And I will occasionally give you. 00:33:57.999 --> 00:34:04.059 Yeah. You can also find me doing pop culture commentary type things over at 00:34:04.059 --> 00:34:06.099 The Incomparable at TheIncomparable.com. 00:34:06.099 --> 00:34:08.799 Um we did uh last summer 00:34:08.799 --> 00:34:11.559 we did a series um on all 00:34:11.559 --> 00:34:14.239 the deadpool movies we did the first two deadpool movies and then the 00:34:14.239 --> 00:34:21.359 third one when it came out uh we did uh i recently did a uh an episode of a 00:34:21.359 --> 00:34:25.179 game show called feud and families where the incomparable sends surveys out 00:34:25.179 --> 00:34:30.619 to members and has them answer questions about various uh fandoms and so then 00:34:30.619 --> 00:34:34.179 uh other people have to come in and guess what people said. 00:34:34.379 --> 00:34:36.899 We will link to all of that in the show notes. 00:34:37.739 --> 00:34:41.859 As you know, I'm at Charlotte Henry across social media. 00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:47.319 I'm at the addition.net where it would be wonderful if you could take out a 00:34:47.319 --> 00:34:51.619 pay subscription, read stuff, share stuff with people you think would be interested in. 00:34:51.719 --> 00:34:53.979 I also have something exciting to tell people. 00:34:54.639 --> 00:34:57.739 Ooh, let's hear it. I'm writing another book. I 00:34:57.739 --> 00:35:00.419 have a book coming out at the end towards the end 00:35:00.419 --> 00:35:06.119 of the year in October uh my book streaming was about the whole landscape of 00:35:06.119 --> 00:35:10.019 streaming and many of the things we talked about today uh will be published 00:35:10.019 --> 00:35:15.119 by the lovely people yes published by the lovely people at Kogan Page so I better 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.019 get back to writing uh and I'll see you all next week. 00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:28.450 Music.