WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.160 Music. 00:00:10.004 --> 00:00:12.784 Welcome to the edition podcast i'm your host charlotte henry 00:00:12.784 --> 00:00:15.764 i've got a very exciting guest this week it's comrade cruelty 00:00:15.764 --> 00:00:18.524 harper hello comrade hi charlotte thanks for having 00:00:18.524 --> 00:00:21.304 me no i'm so thrilled to have you now some of you might know comrade 00:00:21.304 --> 00:00:24.884 from his brilliant previous work at bloomberg and as well maybe see him at the 00:00:24.884 --> 00:00:29.204 moment at the daily beast um comrade and i actually met because we are colleagues 00:00:29.204 --> 00:00:32.824 on the council of the media society but the reason i want him here is he's got 00:00:32.824 --> 00:00:37.944 a very exciting new startup publication uh launched on substack It's called 00:00:37.944 --> 00:00:40.084 Dark Luxury. We're going to come to that in a minute. 00:00:40.864 --> 00:00:45.224 But I know, Conrad, you've been interested in this story about DeepSeek as well. 00:00:45.284 --> 00:00:48.004 That's completely freaked everyone out this week. 00:00:48.364 --> 00:00:53.764 It's the Cherney's AI model that seems to have sort of blown chat GPT out the 00:00:53.764 --> 00:00:55.584 water. What was your take on it all? 00:00:56.944 --> 00:01:02.284 Yeah, it's interesting. I think the first thing I saw when I saw about DeepSeek 00:01:02.284 --> 00:01:06.364 was, you know, the radically lower costs for using it. 00:01:06.364 --> 00:01:10.484 Right and there's a big debate about the 00:01:10.484 --> 00:01:13.324 cost really it's all about money um in the 00:01:13.324 --> 00:01:16.324 context of deep seek you have meta and 00:01:16.324 --> 00:01:19.244 amazon and other big tech companies spending tens of billions 00:01:19.244 --> 00:01:22.284 of dollars buying you know mark zuckerberg 00:01:22.284 --> 00:01:25.224 boasted about how big his new render farm is 00:01:25.224 --> 00:01:28.524 you know it's the size of manhattan and that's 00:01:28.524 --> 00:01:31.344 the context of all of the debates that you 00:01:31.344 --> 00:01:34.384 you see about ai right now my red department is 00:01:34.384 --> 00:01:37.144 bigger than yours well yes it sort of is 00:01:37.144 --> 00:01:39.984 it sort of my compute power is bigger than yours that seems to 00:01:39.984 --> 00:01:43.524 be the sort of new masculine um thing to 00:01:43.524 --> 00:01:47.544 be waving around in silicon valley right now and not not this move they've moved 00:01:47.544 --> 00:01:56.064 on from rockets and i think that's why it's created such a big news story it's 00:01:56.064 --> 00:02:00.864 it's much cheaper to do things that you can do on OpenAI's ChatGPT. 00:02:00.864 --> 00:02:03.544 That's why everyone seems to be so interested in it. 00:02:03.744 --> 00:02:09.364 The thing is, though, in the open source community, there have been lots and 00:02:09.364 --> 00:02:12.244 lots of upstart open source. 00:02:13.104 --> 00:02:17.984 Large language models that have been shown to be faster and quicker and cheaper 00:02:17.984 --> 00:02:20.504 than some of the OpenAI models. 00:02:20.684 --> 00:02:27.844 So it's a bit confusing as to why particularly this DeepSeek is so important. 00:02:27.844 --> 00:02:29.864 And I think there's an element of China. 00:02:30.344 --> 00:02:33.904 Also, you have you have got Trump and tariffs. 00:02:34.144 --> 00:02:38.224 There's a huge question over that. And I think he made some comment about putting 00:02:38.224 --> 00:02:42.644 tariffs on Taiwan, which is where all these chips that power the GPUs that go 00:02:42.644 --> 00:02:44.564 in these render farms are made. So. 00:02:46.040 --> 00:02:49.040 Yeah, there's so many different elements to it. 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:54.520 I was, I mean, as you sort of hinted at, the American companies are freaked 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:56.320 out and the American markets are freaked out. 00:02:56.440 --> 00:03:01.100 We saw NVIDIA get an absolute whacking on the stock market as soon as this developed. 00:03:01.600 --> 00:03:04.440 There's a couple of bits of story that have intrigued me. First of all, 00:03:05.220 --> 00:03:14.160 how did no one, you know, city analysts, tech reporters, why did this come as such a surprise? 00:03:15.320 --> 00:03:19.760 Well, that's what I'm confused about, because there is sort of signs that there 00:03:19.760 --> 00:03:20.940 are open source innovations. 00:03:21.140 --> 00:03:23.880 And I think in Europe, there's even Mistral, which is another, 00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:26.620 you know, the Europe's only hope in the AI space. 00:03:27.300 --> 00:03:31.000 I think it's a very volatile, like if you're looking at the share price of NVIDIA, 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.680 it's always been very volatile. 00:03:34.060 --> 00:03:38.080 You look at the 10 biggest declines in share prices in history, 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:40.240 almost all of them are NVIDIA. 00:03:40.940 --> 00:03:43.720 Spot the journalists that used to work for Bloomberg. Exactly. 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:48.300 And, you know, I think it's like NVIDIA's like eight of them and Meta's two 00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:49.400 of them or something like that. 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:53.060 Right. And, you know, so and actually we're speaking today. 00:03:53.620 --> 00:03:58.460 NVIDIA share price has rebounded. You know, it's made up a third of the losses 00:03:58.460 --> 00:04:01.340 it's made. So it's a very volatile area. 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:06.060 And I think everyone everyone knows when there's a bubble in the stock price 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:07.760 in the share mark in the market. 00:04:08.020 --> 00:04:11.700 Everyone knows it's a bubble. the key thing is finding the top of the bubble 00:04:11.700 --> 00:04:14.480 and getting your money out so that you can buy it again when it drops again 00:04:14.480 --> 00:04:19.300 so you know it's all a bit of a market story which is not hugely, 00:04:19.880 --> 00:04:24.080 different to what everyone else has been talking about the other element of this that i think. 00:04:25.900 --> 00:04:28.640 Um journalists have missed actually is the 00:04:28.640 --> 00:04:31.860 security element you and i have covered talked 00:04:31.860 --> 00:04:35.700 about watched everyone freak out about tiktok for months and months and months 00:04:35.700 --> 00:04:40.100 and months and months but suddenly a huge large language model from China everyone's 00:04:40.100 --> 00:04:45.700 downloading it to their iPhone and it blocks questions about Tiananmen Square 00:04:45.700 --> 00:04:49.380 and like Winnie the Pooh because it's like Xi Jinping, 00:04:50.260 --> 00:04:53.280 I mean yeah this I do think 00:04:53.280 --> 00:04:56.660 the last few weeks we've seen a real 00:04:56.660 --> 00:05:01.900 shift in China's soft power you know I've personally downloaded Red Note which 00:05:01.900 --> 00:05:06.780 was the app that all the TikTok refugees were going to and I've downloaded um 00:05:06.780 --> 00:05:12.200 for that 48 24 36 hours that we didn't have TikTok right that's right well we 00:05:12.200 --> 00:05:16.460 did but the Americans didn't or some Americans and I think it's interesting how. 00:05:17.657 --> 00:05:21.177 This, I've been, the reason, this is a good link to Dark Luxury, 00:05:21.297 --> 00:05:25.917 the publication I'm starting, but the reason I got interested in, 00:05:26.157 --> 00:05:29.257 well, I used to work at GQ and I know about the luxury business, 00:05:29.257 --> 00:05:36.017 but one of the stories I worked on at Bloomberg a few years ago was a company called PandaBuy, 00:05:36.197 --> 00:05:44.237 which is this huge maker of fake luxury products like Nike trainers in China. 00:05:44.237 --> 00:05:48.717 And they had made seven football field-sized factories and they were churning 00:05:48.717 --> 00:05:53.717 out Nike trainers and kids in Leicester in the north of England were creating 00:05:53.717 --> 00:05:57.577 TikTok videos ordering from the Chinese. You're going to get me in trouble if 00:05:57.577 --> 00:05:59.057 you say that Leicester is in the north. 00:06:00.877 --> 00:06:04.257 Northern cities. I think Manchester was one of the most popular. 00:06:04.497 --> 00:06:05.717 I think that counts as the north. 00:06:06.417 --> 00:06:11.977 And that was sort of fascinating to me how China is becoming a much more mainstream, 00:06:12.577 --> 00:06:15.397 you know in in terms of its tech in terms of you know 00:06:15.397 --> 00:06:18.117 people are ordering directly from factories in china in a way that 00:06:18.117 --> 00:06:22.077 they weren't years ago yeah and i think this is the latest thing 00:06:22.077 --> 00:06:24.737 of that now people are feeling confident downloading apps that 00:06:24.737 --> 00:06:27.777 are in in mandarin it's in chinese language you can't 00:06:27.777 --> 00:06:30.877 understand half the stuff but people are still going and downloading 00:06:30.877 --> 00:06:35.057 them which i think is fascinating for the the media shift 00:06:35.057 --> 00:06:38.137 that's going on yeah i mean i do hope that in terms 00:06:38.137 --> 00:06:40.977 of media courage of deep seek that we do have some 00:06:40.977 --> 00:06:44.117 serious questions about the security element 00:06:44.117 --> 00:06:47.497 to it you rightly pointed out you know there are certain prompts that 00:06:47.497 --> 00:06:50.757 just don't work i think some about the chinese famines don't 00:06:50.757 --> 00:06:53.777 work uh you know i i wouldn't suspect 00:06:53.777 --> 00:06:56.817 it to tell me anything about the uyghurs etc etc 00:06:56.817 --> 00:07:00.657 etc now tell me 00:07:00.657 --> 00:07:03.517 about your new publication because i mean 00:07:03.517 --> 00:07:06.597 there will be some stories actually from chart based on stuff that's going on 00:07:06.597 --> 00:07:10.637 in china i imagine from in dark luxury uh you kicked it off towards the end 00:07:10.637 --> 00:07:17.337 of last year and as the title kind of suggests the publication is a very niche 00:07:17.337 --> 00:07:22.097 specialist publication looking at the dark side of the luxury fashion industry. 00:07:23.337 --> 00:07:26.497 That's right. Not just fashion. Also, you know, leather goods, 00:07:26.617 --> 00:07:29.717 perfumes, private jets, hotels. 00:07:30.177 --> 00:07:34.317 The aim is to sort of look at in a super niche way. 00:07:34.877 --> 00:07:40.237 And super is the sort of very broad, you know, sort of definition of niche. 00:07:41.217 --> 00:07:47.377 Yeah. So I working at Bloomberg, you know, I really got my head around the finances 00:07:47.377 --> 00:07:50.637 side of things and working on stories about supply chains. 00:07:50.637 --> 00:07:54.237 You know the story behind consumer behavior 00:07:54.237 --> 00:07:56.977 and how it changes and a lot of that is all 00:07:56.977 --> 00:08:00.817 china focused and my business 00:08:00.817 --> 00:08:03.877 partner and i alfred tong we met when i was the 00:08:03.877 --> 00:08:07.197 online editor at british gq and you know 00:08:07.197 --> 00:08:10.217 he's an expert in a brand consultant he's a 00:08:10.217 --> 00:08:13.357 brilliant writer i'm a good editor and reporter 00:08:13.357 --> 00:08:17.257 we were writing a weekly original 00:08:17.257 --> 00:08:20.197 story on darkluxury.news and we're 00:08:20.197 --> 00:08:22.997 doing news roundups and we're hoping well we are doing 00:08:22.997 --> 00:08:26.157 more deeper investigations into as you say the 00:08:26.157 --> 00:08:31.897 darker side of the luxury business i think we took this approach because we 00:08:31.897 --> 00:08:38.417 consider luxury as sort of europe's equivalent to big tech um you know the information 00:08:38.417 --> 00:08:44.877 is a very successful publication in the US that's built around original reporting, 00:08:45.737 --> 00:08:51.417 you know, excellent reporters, brilliant publication and a great business model. 00:08:51.717 --> 00:08:55.997 And we're really into bloody expensive, bloody expensive. 00:08:56.417 --> 00:09:01.237 And but you get what you pay for, really. And I think the the goal with that 00:09:01.237 --> 00:09:03.777 luxury was to sort of try and be the English language. 00:09:04.847 --> 00:09:07.527 Luxury version of of that and and there 00:09:07.527 --> 00:09:10.607 are actually several really brilliant 00:09:10.607 --> 00:09:13.647 publications that do this stuff so particularly in france 00:09:13.647 --> 00:09:16.987 there's miss tweed there's glitz glitz 00:09:16.987 --> 00:09:20.087 paris um and there's some very 00:09:20.087 --> 00:09:23.107 good substack journalists um amy odell 00:09:23.107 --> 00:09:27.227 in new york and they do a really 00:09:27.227 --> 00:09:30.487 good boot leather you know reporting on 00:09:30.487 --> 00:09:34.227 the big flows of money that are going through luxury and 00:09:34.227 --> 00:09:37.787 it's just it's a topic that is so relevant 00:09:37.787 --> 00:09:41.207 to climate change 00:09:41.207 --> 00:09:44.587 to you know there's stories about how bernard. 00:09:44.587 --> 00:09:48.047 Arnaud is influencing the french uh government he 00:09:48.047 --> 00:09:51.227 was sitting at the inauguration next to trump you know 00:09:51.227 --> 00:09:54.467 for us it's it's sort of the the closest 00:09:54.467 --> 00:09:57.787 europe has to a big tech industry and there's and our 00:09:57.787 --> 00:10:00.787 kind of formula for um for thinking about 00:10:00.787 --> 00:10:03.847 this was an area that has lots of potential for scoops 00:10:03.847 --> 00:10:06.707 and drama an audience which has 00:10:06.707 --> 00:10:09.967 money and an area that is underreported and 00:10:09.967 --> 00:10:13.207 i think those are the three things in that sort 00:10:13.207 --> 00:10:15.827 of prioritize our sort of selection of luxury and the 00:10:15.827 --> 00:10:18.767 dark side of it that's a really fascinating way 00:10:18.767 --> 00:10:21.567 because when you start a publication you have to you do 00:10:21.567 --> 00:10:24.387 have to think about these things right is this a 00:10:24.387 --> 00:10:27.287 audit you know is it only us that's interested in 00:10:27.287 --> 00:10:30.207 it well absolutely not in the case of luxury goods and 00:10:30.207 --> 00:10:33.347 luxury lifestyle look at those glossy magazines 00:10:33.347 --> 00:10:36.967 that still exist to prove that um and 00:10:36.967 --> 00:10:39.767 yes is it an audience and perhaps an advertiser base 00:10:39.767 --> 00:10:42.507 it that is interested in it 00:10:42.507 --> 00:10:46.367 i mean how would you go about if you don't mind me asking the advertising space 00:10:46.367 --> 00:10:51.387 because there's obviously a dip the joy of sub stack and the subscriber model 00:10:51.387 --> 00:10:55.507 is that you can be really independent and robust and your reporting is independent 00:10:55.507 --> 00:10:58.707 and robust i've got a sneak peek of some of the stories you've got coming and 00:10:58.707 --> 00:11:02.167 you It's very robust original reporting. It's going to be fantastic to read. 00:11:02.387 --> 00:11:08.627 But that does potentially lead to a clash with the advertisers now. 00:11:09.510 --> 00:11:14.750 Well, we're specifically going after the subscriber revenue stream initially, 00:11:14.750 --> 00:11:18.890 and this is informed by that risk, right? 00:11:19.170 --> 00:11:28.970 The luxury business funds Vogue, it funds Condé Nast, it funds so many things 00:11:28.970 --> 00:11:30.910 in the luxury business itself. 00:11:31.630 --> 00:11:35.590 You know, there's sort of weird divisions. 00:11:35.590 --> 00:11:38.750 When you when you work in in the magazine world you 00:11:38.750 --> 00:11:42.210 know there's a there's the concept of fashion credits which is 00:11:42.210 --> 00:11:45.430 if an advertiser you know um is 00:11:45.430 --> 00:11:48.430 keeping your magazine running well you give them certain number. 00:11:48.430 --> 00:11:51.370 Of credits for editorial mentions of when you 00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:54.070 you know you when you dress your models in your shoots or when you. 00:11:54.070 --> 00:11:57.050 Dress your celebrities which is fine. 00:11:57.050 --> 00:12:00.170 I think there's some element of readers knowing this 00:12:00.170 --> 00:12:03.310 right you know there's sort of there's the trope of people read vogue 00:12:03.310 --> 00:12:06.390 for the advertising um but we think 00:12:06.390 --> 00:12:10.130 there's a bit of a opportunity to do some 00:12:10.130 --> 00:12:14.690 harder hitting reporting that's not potentially 00:12:14.690 --> 00:12:17.350 compromised or not doesn't have the perception that it's 00:12:17.350 --> 00:12:20.650 compromised by advertisers and you 00:12:20.650 --> 00:12:24.010 know i've had it i've had particular experiences at 00:12:24.010 --> 00:12:26.990 condenas when you feel pressure from 00:12:26.990 --> 00:12:30.030 advertisers as i'm sure most people in magazines 00:12:30.030 --> 00:12:32.990 have we don't want to do that we think there's a 00:12:32.990 --> 00:12:36.630 revenue a profitable business to be made in writing 00:12:36.630 --> 00:12:39.730 original stories that are not influenced by the 00:12:39.730 --> 00:12:42.610 industry we cover that's just our personal choice 00:12:42.610 --> 00:12:46.050 we we love luxury I love I'm personally 00:12:46.050 --> 00:12:49.490 fascinated by private jets and my colleague 00:12:49.490 --> 00:12:52.970 Alf is probably one of the main purchasers of Italian 00:12:52.970 --> 00:12:57.210 fabric in the United Kingdom but 00:12:57.210 --> 00:13:00.770 we also are reporters and we enjoy 00:13:00.770 --> 00:13:03.530 reporting and we write we like writing stories that are 00:13:03.530 --> 00:13:07.030 fascinating and you know are just 00:13:07.030 --> 00:13:13.130 thrilling to read and that's we think we can do that firstly with a subscriber 00:13:13.130 --> 00:13:17.270 revenue model not to say we won't you know accept advertising in the future 00:13:17.270 --> 00:13:20.930 we're a startup we don't know exactly know where we're going to make our money 00:13:20.930 --> 00:13:25.390 maybe we pivot to tiktok and podcasts and it's all advertising. 00:13:25.890 --> 00:13:28.710 Algorithmic advertising who knows but for the 00:13:28.710 --> 00:13:31.590 for the initial perhaps naive hope is 00:13:31.590 --> 00:13:36.830 that we can build a sustainable business just with um say okay so here's here's 00:13:36.830 --> 00:13:41.970 a good example lvmh has 600 000 employees if we can get one percent of those 00:13:41.970 --> 00:13:45.510 to pay 10 pounds a month well that's an incredibly successful business i think 00:13:45.510 --> 00:13:49.550 that's you know it's a million quid a year in revenue so um, 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:55.980 I don't know if we'll get there, but that's also part of the origin story is 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:59.860 the CEO of LVMH, the biggest luxury company in the world, 00:14:00.140 --> 00:14:06.380 worth $400 billion, was reported to have banned his employees from speaking 00:14:06.380 --> 00:14:08.060 to six French publications. 00:14:08.680 --> 00:14:11.820 And I think that had the complete opposite effect. 00:14:11.940 --> 00:14:18.080 I think businesses have had a surge in subscriptions. So our aspiration is to 00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.540 be on that ban list, I think, without getting sued. 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:27.640 Well, it is hard when you're dealing with these big, powerful companies. 00:14:27.980 --> 00:14:34.560 It is, you know, I sometimes find, you know, you want to report, 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:38.440 and I think I do report robustly on media companies, but also I do freelance 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:39.800 work and you're kind of thinking. 00:14:40.740 --> 00:14:44.280 Oh, if I, you know, how difficult is that going to be, that dynamic? 00:14:44.280 --> 00:14:49.700 That is the nature of these startup publications, particularly when you're going 00:14:49.700 --> 00:14:52.740 into a niche and a niche that you're interested in. 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:55.960 First of all, I don't think you can start a business like you or I run unless 00:14:55.960 --> 00:14:58.840 you're really fascinated by the world you're reporting on. 00:14:59.220 --> 00:15:05.160 And second of all, that does inevitably lead to conflicts, however much you try and avoid them. 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:12.160 Well, I think, you know, where reporters speak for people and people care about 00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:15.540 the environment, They care about people not being exploited at work. 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:22.060 They care about, you know, rich people not overly influencing politicians, 00:15:22.060 --> 00:15:26.260 you know, and that's what we stand for. 00:15:26.540 --> 00:15:29.960 And so anyone who's against that, we're sort of against. 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:34.900 And I don't think that, you know, I think most people who work at any business 00:15:34.900 --> 00:15:39.240 are good people and they agree with those principles, too. And this is the sort 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:42.920 of, you know, there's a watchdog element to journalism, isn't there? 00:15:43.280 --> 00:15:45.140 I think that's one element of it. 00:15:45.540 --> 00:15:50.180 Yeah, well, I think actually we're driven by that, but we're mostly driven by 00:15:50.180 --> 00:15:54.080 what are interesting stories about how does this industry actually work that 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:56.400 it doesn't like people to know about. 00:15:56.400 --> 00:16:01.920 But one of the biggest stories right now in this space is in Italy, 00:16:01.920 --> 00:16:07.420 several of the manufacturers of the biggest luxury companies are under court 00:16:07.420 --> 00:16:17.340 observation and control because they were found to have allegedly been indentured servants, 00:16:17.660 --> 00:16:21.640 almost slave labour in the supply chain. 00:16:21.820 --> 00:16:25.900 And the auditors who were supposed to check for this didn't do their job. 00:16:26.588 --> 00:16:31.668 You know, and that also revealed interesting things about how little it costs 00:16:31.668 --> 00:16:34.308 to make handbags that sell for $5,000. 00:16:34.688 --> 00:16:40.348 You know, they've been made for $50, which is just a fascinating story. 00:16:40.348 --> 00:16:43.608 I think people are, they want to know about that thing. 00:16:43.708 --> 00:16:49.008 And I think it also then crosses over to fakes, which is people buy $500 handbags, 00:16:49.148 --> 00:16:51.428 which are made by organized criminals. 00:16:51.588 --> 00:16:55.168 So once you start peeling away the surface 00:16:55.168 --> 00:16:58.268 of the industry you start to see fascinating stories 00:16:58.268 --> 00:17:01.368 um and if it's a watchdog element and that changes things 00:17:01.368 --> 00:17:04.348 great but it's not the not necessarily the 00:17:04.348 --> 00:17:07.368 point yeah it's about telling interesting stories and 00:17:07.368 --> 00:17:10.728 this is the joy isn't it of being a niche publication 00:17:10.728 --> 00:17:13.588 is that you can really get under the skin of these 00:17:13.588 --> 00:17:16.548 things i i'd hope 00:17:16.548 --> 00:17:19.268 so um we're hoping to get under 00:17:19.268 --> 00:17:22.308 the skin of things um well your initial stories are 00:17:22.308 --> 00:17:25.648 already you know getting to that point I suppose 00:17:25.648 --> 00:17:28.428 that's true I think one of the you know 00:17:28.428 --> 00:17:31.508 my uh impetus to quit my 00:17:31.508 --> 00:17:34.308 job at Bloomberg News and go out on my own 00:17:34.308 --> 00:17:37.408 was because I wanted to focus 00:17:37.408 --> 00:17:40.248 more on my reporting I'd been an editor for a 00:17:40.248 --> 00:17:43.308 long time I was doing all sorts of editing roles at 00:17:43.308 --> 00:17:46.988 Bloomberg News and I just found myself really learning to 00:17:46.988 --> 00:17:50.068 love reporting again and you know calling up 00:17:50.068 --> 00:17:53.568 people speaking to them writing down what they say it's 00:17:53.568 --> 00:17:58.548 just so fun and in any industry and any any world you know i get to speak in 00:17:58.548 --> 00:18:03.648 my freelance work to you know experts in their fields in on a global context 00:18:03.648 --> 00:18:11.608 and i think just digging away at a story is just the whole reason anyone does this stuff right and. 00:18:13.088 --> 00:18:18.608 Yeah and allowing allowing the ability to focus and not have a general approach whilst also, 00:18:19.368 --> 00:18:22.808 being able to try other stuff not being too focused 00:18:22.808 --> 00:18:27.188 on one beat i can also go off and do freelance on another topic if i if i need 00:18:27.188 --> 00:18:32.748 a palette cleanser a fashion palette cleanser but this is this is the thing 00:18:32.748 --> 00:18:37.688 about building these publications and actually the one thing we don't tell uh 00:18:37.688 --> 00:18:41.028 people who read our stories is the least fun bit of being a reporter is the 00:18:41.028 --> 00:18:42.728 sitting down and actually writing the story. 00:18:43.268 --> 00:18:48.088 That's the bit where you're like, oh, I'm bored now. The best bit is actually doing the reporting. 00:18:48.888 --> 00:18:55.428 And it's particularly fun if you're doing it on a beat in a niche that you're fascinated by. 00:18:55.708 --> 00:18:58.928 You know, I love knowing as much as I can about the media industry. 00:18:59.188 --> 00:19:03.568 You are obviously fascinated by the world of luxury and luxury. 00:19:05.073 --> 00:19:09.913 The thing about it is, right, these beats, media and luxury, 00:19:10.093 --> 00:19:14.513 I think, are quite similar in some ways because they intersect and interconnect 00:19:14.513 --> 00:19:17.213 with so many different elements of our life. 00:19:17.413 --> 00:19:20.313 You know, you're talking about the political influence of the industry, 00:19:20.513 --> 00:19:24.413 the media, the influence it has on the media, the influence it has on, 00:19:24.513 --> 00:19:27.953 you know, almost organised crime. 00:19:28.253 --> 00:19:32.373 That's a huge, you know, but you're only focusing on one beat. 00:19:32.373 --> 00:19:35.553 And I feel the same with media that intersects so many other things. 00:19:35.713 --> 00:19:39.213 And that's why with these niche publications, with these startups, 00:19:39.533 --> 00:19:45.013 you can really explore the kind of web around these different things. 00:19:46.013 --> 00:19:48.833 Yeah i think so i mean uh you know 00:19:48.833 --> 00:19:52.993 i think that we talked a little bit about the tiktok refugees and i'm going 00:19:52.993 --> 00:19:58.433 to this other app i think that was an example where politics became incredibly 00:19:58.433 --> 00:20:06.113 real for hundreds of millions of americans you know the idea that congress people voted to ban it and, 00:20:06.933 --> 00:20:09.933 then oh wait the date approached and it actually happened 00:20:09.933 --> 00:20:12.993 for a bit you know i sometimes politics can 00:20:12.993 --> 00:20:16.133 seem a bit abstract and media in media particularly 00:20:16.133 --> 00:20:19.593 um but there's always you know 00:20:19.593 --> 00:20:22.673 working in the it's funny how working in tech 00:20:22.673 --> 00:20:26.653 you've got to choose a billionaire to work for working in the media you've got 00:20:26.653 --> 00:20:29.953 to choose a billionaire to work for working in luxury you've got to choose a 00:20:29.953 --> 00:20:34.953 billionaire to work for totally and billionaires are a class of people and they 00:20:34.953 --> 00:20:39.673 have they operate in a different orbit from the rest of us and there's sometimes literally, 00:20:40.573 --> 00:20:45.973 sometimes literally and there's all sorts of things that they do that are fascinating 00:20:45.973 --> 00:20:51.793 whether regardless of the industry they're in so we're all reporting on billionaires 00:20:51.793 --> 00:20:53.373 and their influence right now aren't we, 00:20:54.829 --> 00:20:57.789 Yeah, I mean, that's a whole other thing. 00:20:57.889 --> 00:21:01.409 I mean, you could have a whole publication and it'd be dedicated to the billionaire. 00:21:03.269 --> 00:21:05.949 The world of the billionaire and the class of billionaire. 00:21:06.169 --> 00:21:11.069 And in some ways, that is what you're doing. But I guess with luxury, 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:14.469 it seeps into all other areas of life. 00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:19.129 So just as we come to the end of our conversation, what's the plan moving forward 00:21:19.129 --> 00:21:20.289 to building a publication? 00:21:20.449 --> 00:21:23.529 I know my listeners will be really interested in how you build 00:21:23.529 --> 00:21:27.169 these things from the ground up so the 00:21:27.169 --> 00:21:30.049 the plan is well it's it's there's 00:21:30.049 --> 00:21:33.069 very little in terms of technical differences between anyone starting a 00:21:33.069 --> 00:21:35.749 sub stack and anyone who's not we've done 00:21:35.749 --> 00:21:38.429 a lot you know who's not got expertise we did a lot of 00:21:38.429 --> 00:21:41.809 thinking Alfred and I about the positioning we're 00:21:41.809 --> 00:21:46.109 trying to go for the audience we're trying to reach the unique 00:21:46.109 --> 00:21:49.369 brand offering to customers 00:21:49.369 --> 00:21:52.209 you know we're building a thing that people have 00:21:52.209 --> 00:21:55.069 to pay for that you need to justify to 00:21:55.069 --> 00:21:58.269 yourself and we in 00:21:58.269 --> 00:22:03.309 the first year we hope to reach some somewhere close to profitability which 00:22:03.309 --> 00:22:09.729 we consider 600 paying subscribers yeah um we're only at in the dozens at the 00:22:09.729 --> 00:22:15.929 moment and the strategy is to write stories that gain people's attention get 00:22:15.929 --> 00:22:17.469 coverage elsewhere in the media, 00:22:17.749 --> 00:22:20.429 because we know how to do that. 00:22:20.589 --> 00:22:24.529 I've written stories for Bloomberg, Alfred's written stories for all sorts of publications. 00:22:25.959 --> 00:22:29.419 Our theory is we know what works, what people want to read. 00:22:29.899 --> 00:22:35.219 We know how to create a valuable offering so that you can justify spending £10 00:22:35.219 --> 00:22:39.179 a month for the four or five, you know, originally reported stories you get. 00:22:39.659 --> 00:22:43.079 And it might help you in your work if you're in the luxury industry yourself. 00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:45.639 You know, we might tell you about something you didn't know, 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.959 something about your boss, something about your rival. 00:22:49.679 --> 00:22:53.859 And that's if we can make that work, we plan to launch more of them. 00:22:53.859 --> 00:23:00.279 You know, we want to launch other specialist publications that borrow this model. 00:23:00.739 --> 00:23:03.559 And we are also raising money to do this. 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:07.679 So we are meeting investors. We've raised a bit of money already. 00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:09.659 That's what enabled me to leave Bloomberg. 00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:17.779 We have a tiny bit of runway to try stuff out and see whether the formula works and pay for branding. 00:23:17.779 --> 00:23:20.739 We're going to have a new we're going to put a logo on a 00:23:20.739 --> 00:23:23.999 new color scheme and font choices and instagram 00:23:23.999 --> 00:23:27.919 things but you've got to look luxurious comrade we've got to look luxurious 00:23:27.919 --> 00:23:33.819 because we're appealing to a luxury executive working at lvmh um it's so fascinating 00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:39.359 this idea of building a kind of umbrella and then a network of different publications 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.599 i i think lots of there'll be lots small, 00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:44.859 you know, entrepreneurs like yourself, 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.579 different kind of startups that use this model. 00:23:50.719 --> 00:23:54.199 And I think, you know, Substack is as good as places any to do that. 00:23:54.939 --> 00:23:58.759 I mean, I have my thoughts on Substack that it's become more of a social network, 00:23:58.919 --> 00:24:01.659 but there's no doubt it's the easiest place to just hit go. 00:24:01.939 --> 00:24:06.159 If you have an idea, if you've got good stories to write, it's the easiest place 00:24:06.159 --> 00:24:08.299 to hit start and publish. 00:24:08.679 --> 00:24:11.639 There's no doubt about that. And I've, 00:24:12.275 --> 00:24:18.155 So in terms of building an umbrella organisation, how do you see that developing? 00:24:18.375 --> 00:24:21.575 Because, you know, we've seen like in politics or local news, 00:24:21.795 --> 00:24:24.575 the mill is always an example people use of. 00:24:24.735 --> 00:24:27.915 They've started in Manchester by building out as well. 00:24:28.255 --> 00:24:30.575 How do you see that going with your business? 00:24:31.275 --> 00:24:34.915 Well, so our approach is we've got a super niche model. 00:24:35.135 --> 00:24:39.435 So that could be super small, it could be super broad, but it's always super 00:24:39.435 --> 00:24:42.115 powered by our formula we talked about. 00:24:42.115 --> 00:24:45.195 Of yeah you know uh an audience which 00:24:45.195 --> 00:24:48.615 has money to spend um because it's 00:24:48.615 --> 00:24:52.495 10 pounds a month it's not cheap um although compared 00:24:52.495 --> 00:24:55.855 to some of the other publications it is pretty cheap in our 00:24:55.855 --> 00:24:58.735 area good value conrad not cheap good value for money good 00:24:58.735 --> 00:25:01.515 value affordable um so it's 00:25:01.515 --> 00:25:04.895 got to have an audience that has money to spend and 00:25:04.895 --> 00:25:07.735 can get value from what we're producing the 00:25:07.735 --> 00:25:10.875 reporting we're doing an area with scoops or 00:25:10.875 --> 00:25:14.235 potential scoops um that's been under-reported or 00:25:14.235 --> 00:25:17.155 not being packaged together and i 00:25:17.155 --> 00:25:20.455 think you can see you can see this quite 00:25:20.455 --> 00:25:23.535 a lot in the media the generalist media you know um 00:25:23.535 --> 00:25:28.695 in a newspaper you get the whole range of stories you get from the light fluffy 00:25:28.695 --> 00:25:34.015 stuff to the hard-hitting investigative stuff um but they're all very you know 00:25:34.015 --> 00:25:37.135 very still still very much the old model of you know sitting down at your breakfast 00:25:37.135 --> 00:25:41.175 table and what's in the news today and I get a rounded picture everything's 00:25:41.175 --> 00:25:42.495 been broken down now there's. 00:25:42.815 --> 00:25:45.615 Super niche publications in every sector you 00:25:45.615 --> 00:25:48.675 can imagine so if you want to focus on one particular 00:25:48.675 --> 00:25:51.555 area you can and I think 00:25:51.555 --> 00:25:54.535 you know there's there are obvious things you know 00:25:54.535 --> 00:25:57.935 that that hit on all those three things I mean 00:25:57.935 --> 00:26:03.855 one story that's always in the news is OnlyFans and it's just a fascinating 00:26:03.855 --> 00:26:09.555 topic you know the owner is one of the UK's biggest taxpayers it's a relatively 00:26:09.555 --> 00:26:16.395 secretive business it's almost reported on on a daily basis and it. 00:26:17.218 --> 00:26:21.158 You know what what's going on there it's also it's also an incredibly i have 00:26:21.158 --> 00:26:24.198 to say i didn't think this conversation would get on to only found go for it 00:26:24.198 --> 00:26:28.758 but if you think about the money i think they they are one of the biggest top 00:26:28.758 --> 00:26:37.058 100 companies in the uk by revenue and um they have five million. 00:26:38.018 --> 00:26:40.658 Uh creators on their platform some of them who are 00:26:40.658 --> 00:26:44.518 making millions of pounds and you 00:26:44.518 --> 00:26:47.438 know i'm giving this one away for free to any investors listening but we 00:26:47.438 --> 00:26:50.898 want to create a publication that's the trade publication for only fans like 00:26:50.898 --> 00:26:55.618 how do you how do you get ahead like what's what are the risks to me as a small 00:26:55.618 --> 00:27:00.838 business owner on only fans what are the uh you know there's some incredibly 00:27:00.838 --> 00:27:06.158 good investigative reporting about how this this platform works you know there's. 00:27:07.278 --> 00:27:10.218 Filipinos um in the people in 00:27:10.218 --> 00:27:14.658 the philippines who are answering thousands of you know questions from the live 00:27:14.658 --> 00:27:20.038 chats on only fans accounts and being paid a dollar you know a dollar an hour 00:27:20.038 --> 00:27:24.838 or something to do this and i'm giving this one away for free this is this would 00:27:24.838 --> 00:27:27.958 be one we would launch and we would take you know we would take the same model 00:27:27.958 --> 00:27:30.118 we would find a brilliant reporter, 00:27:31.038 --> 00:27:34.758 with the investment we raise we're going we're planned to you 00:27:34.758 --> 00:27:38.058 know keep them you know safe in 00:27:38.058 --> 00:27:41.438 terms of they're paying their mortgage or their rent for a year pay 00:27:41.438 --> 00:27:44.658 them a salary and we'd invest the same in helping 00:27:44.658 --> 00:27:48.338 them grow that to a publication that is profitable um and 00:27:48.338 --> 00:27:52.018 and we do that that's kind of the formula this is the thing this is why i love 00:27:52.018 --> 00:27:55.318 covering this stuff on the edition because there are so when you look into the 00:27:55.318 --> 00:27:59.778 world of niche publications there are so many things that are underreported 00:27:59.778 --> 00:28:07.598 on that you know mainstream generalist outlets simply cannot give the time to and and. 00:28:08.261 --> 00:28:12.921 Because of the way our fractured media works now, there is the capacity to dig 00:28:12.921 --> 00:28:15.521 into these things, whether it's, you know, the luxury industry, 00:28:15.701 --> 00:28:18.441 whether it's the media, whether it's OnlyFans. 00:28:18.881 --> 00:28:23.361 And there really is the ability to really dig into these things. 00:28:23.501 --> 00:28:26.781 And I think I think it's going to be one of the big stories of 2025, 00:28:26.781 --> 00:28:32.701 to be honest, this growth of the niche expert, deeply reported publication. 00:28:32.701 --> 00:28:35.621 Conversation um and just to bring the conversation full circle 00:28:35.621 --> 00:28:38.381 that is something that no ai model can compete with i 00:28:38.381 --> 00:28:41.161 don't think that's driving a lot of this isn't it 00:28:41.161 --> 00:28:44.101 i mean i cannot be automated the work 00:28:44.101 --> 00:28:47.001 i do cannot be cannot be 00:28:47.001 --> 00:28:49.721 made into slop um people still know 00:28:49.721 --> 00:28:53.161 what an original story is they still know what something new is and 00:28:53.161 --> 00:28:56.321 ai by definition can only look back it 00:28:56.321 --> 00:28:59.501 can only use the data it's been given i'm creating 00:28:59.501 --> 00:29:02.421 new data new thrilling data for 00:29:02.421 --> 00:29:05.521 our our brethren you most certainly 00:29:05.521 --> 00:29:10.001 are where can people keep up with you comrade darkluxury.news please subscribe 00:29:10.001 --> 00:29:15.281 we give out previews of the stories and occasionally post free stories um that's 00:29:15.281 --> 00:29:19.161 where i'd love you anyone listening to sign up and check it out fantastic i'm 00:29:19.161 --> 00:29:23.981 at charlotte a henry across social media and And if you're listening to this story still in January, 00:29:24.221 --> 00:29:31.021 you can head over to TheEdition.net and there is capacity to get 50% discount still. 00:29:31.601 --> 00:29:35.161 You should sign up to the newsletter at TheEdition.net as well, 00:29:35.301 --> 00:29:40.321 where I post everything, blog posts, newsletters, podcasts and so on. 00:29:40.401 --> 00:29:43.801 So, yeah, if you listen to this properly, you might still be able to get a 50% 00:29:43.801 --> 00:29:46.661 discount. I'll put the link in the show notes. 00:29:47.101 --> 00:29:50.361 Comrade, best of luck with Dark Luxury. thank you so much for joining me to 00:29:50.361 --> 00:29:53.901 tell us all about it and I'll see everyone else next week. 00:29:54.480 --> 00:30:03.075 Music.