WEBVTT 00:00:11.786 --> 00:00:16.306 Under the weather and didn't think any of you needed 30 to 40 minutes of me just coughing. 00:00:16.486 --> 00:00:21.626 I have a wonderful guest this week. I have the mighty Jack Pittbrook from The 00:00:21.626 --> 00:00:25.986 Athletic, who covers the Tottenham Hotspur men's team and the England men's 00:00:25.986 --> 00:00:27.906 team at that publication. 00:00:28.226 --> 00:00:31.606 Normally, it's Christmas. It's the most wonderful time of the year. 00:00:32.246 --> 00:00:35.846 Whereas for football journalists, January is the most wonderful time of the 00:00:35.846 --> 00:00:36.966 year because it's that frantic, 00:00:37.166 --> 00:00:41.586 exciting transfer window jack welcome back to the show i'm thrilled to have 00:00:41.586 --> 00:00:45.166 you here hey charlotte thank you so much having me on the show no it's great 00:00:45.166 --> 00:00:49.366 to have you um this is the point where you tell me you've got loads of news 00:00:49.366 --> 00:00:52.986 stored up my football team's going to sign loads of fantastic players and you've been. 00:00:53.746 --> 00:00:57.286 Frantically taking notes and speaking to sources i wish 00:00:57.286 --> 00:01:00.026 charlotte i wish i could come and come real off a 00:01:00.026 --> 00:01:03.006 long list of players the top that we're about to sign but no i think that 00:01:03.006 --> 00:01:05.986 it's always a difficult window the january window 00:01:05.986 --> 00:01:08.706 i think that you know so much work 00:01:08.706 --> 00:01:11.786 goes in behind the scenes just to get to get any signing 00:01:11.786 --> 00:01:14.986 over the line and i do think tottenham will do more 00:01:14.986 --> 00:01:18.426 between now and the end of the window i think just because yeah the 00:01:18.426 --> 00:01:21.106 team obviously needs more players i think everyone in 00:01:21.106 --> 00:01:24.626 the club is like really really aware of that and they've shown already 00:01:24.626 --> 00:01:27.326 this window that they can move quickly as they did 00:01:27.326 --> 00:01:30.026 in the case of conor gallagher but at the moment i 00:01:30.026 --> 00:01:32.926 think it's just a case of they've got to you 00:01:32.926 --> 00:01:35.686 know they've got to figure out which of their targets are actually guessable and then 00:01:35.686 --> 00:01:38.486 try to try to get them over the line 00:01:38.486 --> 00:01:42.166 um as briskly and i think increasing 00:01:42.166 --> 00:01:45.466 now that we've taught them like this is kind of discreetly as 00:01:45.466 --> 00:01:50.206 they can because they know that you know external noise is not always conducive 00:01:50.206 --> 00:01:55.226 to getting the players you want in at this time of year well and you are that 00:01:55.226 --> 00:01:58.986 external noise so let's unpack that practice process a bit because it doesn't 00:01:58.986 --> 00:02:02.406 have to be club specific, because all clubs are trying to get business done. 00:02:02.626 --> 00:02:08.846 What is it like as a journalist, in your instance, assigned to cover one particular club that. 00:02:09.878 --> 00:02:14.838 What is that process of trying to keep up with the comings and goings in this, 00:02:15.018 --> 00:02:18.138 particularly the January transfer? I feel like the summer is a bit different. 00:02:18.858 --> 00:02:24.618 This very intense four week period. What's that like for you? That's a good question. 00:02:24.978 --> 00:02:29.718 It's pretty, it's kind of intense because, you know, there's a lot of, 00:02:29.978 --> 00:02:33.118 there's a lot of ultimately a lot of public focus, 00:02:33.378 --> 00:02:36.738 like fans and readers and listeners really, really, are 00:02:36.738 --> 00:02:39.658 really engaged by who's going to sign for their teams and 00:02:39.658 --> 00:02:42.498 in the window so there's a lot of you know 00:02:42.498 --> 00:02:45.998 that people are really really kind of watching and they're 00:02:45.998 --> 00:02:49.078 uh particularly if you work for a publication like the athletic or 00:02:49.078 --> 00:02:53.238 you know another big publication there's a particular people want to come to 00:02:53.238 --> 00:02:57.078 you guys to find out to find out what's going on so you do feel i guess like 00:02:57.078 --> 00:03:00.778 a little bit under the microscope which i think is good as well because you 00:03:00.778 --> 00:03:04.538 know you want people to you want people to be to be reading and listening and 00:03:04.538 --> 00:03:07.938 tuning in and you want people to be coming to you for the news. 00:03:09.194 --> 00:03:12.594 So yeah it's quite high pressure so it can move very quickly 00:03:12.594 --> 00:03:15.334 that's the other that's the other thing is that ultimately like 00:03:15.334 --> 00:03:18.234 the gallagher thing like brilliant brilliant colleague david ornstein broke 00:03:18.234 --> 00:03:21.454 that story i think on the basically like 00:03:21.454 --> 00:03:24.194 the towards the start of this week i get 00:03:24.194 --> 00:03:27.254 my days a bit confused at this time of year yeah apparently 00:03:27.254 --> 00:03:30.134 it's we're recording this apparently on a friday on a friday yeah 00:03:30.134 --> 00:03:33.254 so soon so my laptop says top right hand corner friday 00:03:33.254 --> 00:03:36.054 16th of jan but i can see like the gallagher story is 00:03:36.054 --> 00:03:38.994 one that moved very quickly from being like there wasn't an awful 00:03:38.994 --> 00:03:41.834 lot of talk about Tottenham even being interested in Gallagher and then 00:03:41.834 --> 00:03:44.954 clearly it moved very quickly and David as ever was like massively across 00:03:44.954 --> 00:03:47.994 the process and then all of a sudden he was flying 00:03:47.994 --> 00:03:51.094 in from Madrid to London for his medical the next day 00:03:51.094 --> 00:03:54.074 to join and clearly like Tottenham that 00:03:54.074 --> 00:03:56.734 was one of those deals where Spurs had moved I think 00:03:56.734 --> 00:03:59.414 very very quickly in private and then 00:03:59.414 --> 00:04:02.394 by the time that the news by the time it was publicly known 00:04:02.394 --> 00:04:05.414 I think it was pretty close to being done so there is 00:04:05.414 --> 00:04:08.154 like uh i think that is illustrative of 00:04:08.154 --> 00:04:12.014 the fact that things can move really fast and so there's a kind of you need 00:04:12.014 --> 00:04:17.414 to be able to you need to be able to move quickly and to react when when news 00:04:17.414 --> 00:04:22.934 breaks or when when you get wind of a player who's on the moon presumably these 00:04:22.934 --> 00:04:25.614 stories tend to break when you're out having dinner with your family, 00:04:26.134 --> 00:04:31.274 trying to put your daughter to bed yeah whenever is the most inconvenient i 00:04:31.274 --> 00:04:35.154 assume this is when the stories break yeah that is often that is often the way. 00:04:36.642 --> 00:04:40.842 Fortunately, at The Athletic, we've got a big team of amazing colleagues, 00:04:41.062 --> 00:04:43.122 both kind of other reporters and editors and so on. 00:04:43.222 --> 00:04:46.442 And therefore, there's always often other people you can work with if you are 00:04:46.442 --> 00:04:48.762 not able to work for any particular reason. 00:04:49.042 --> 00:04:50.922 Stories do often happen at inconvenient times. 00:04:51.322 --> 00:04:57.242 It was only a few months ago, I was at Lourdes for one day international, 00:04:57.542 --> 00:05:00.602 England against South Africa with my dad for his birthday. 00:05:00.962 --> 00:05:04.222 And then I think it was about 5 p.m. I got a 00:05:04.222 --> 00:05:06.942 call from the desk which i ignored thinking you know they know i'm 00:05:06.942 --> 00:05:09.742 at the cricket today i'm it's a day i'm not 00:05:09.742 --> 00:05:12.682 going to take a call about work at 5 p.m and then my phone 00:05:12.682 --> 00:05:15.602 exploded and i saw that daniel levy had been sacked as chairman 00:05:15.602 --> 00:05:18.522 yes this was the chairman of tottenham hotspur for 00:05:18.522 --> 00:05:21.782 a quarter of a century hugely influential figure 00:05:21.782 --> 00:05:24.462 it was a very big deal him moving i think i 00:05:24.462 --> 00:05:27.762 remember seeing you post on instagram your lovely view from 00:05:27.762 --> 00:05:30.482 yeah that was fun and then then had to run 00:05:30.482 --> 00:05:34.242 and presumably did you have to write a story on your mobile phone i 00:05:34.242 --> 00:05:37.062 didn't do any writing my phone i think we had people to cover 00:05:37.062 --> 00:05:39.982 that but i did basically like get the tube back as get 00:05:39.982 --> 00:05:43.062 the tube back to south london as quickly as possible and then come home 00:05:43.062 --> 00:05:45.982 and then it was kind of non-stop work for 00:05:45.982 --> 00:05:48.902 what felt like about a month until until we kind 00:05:48.902 --> 00:05:52.562 of started to get our heads around what had happened and why yeah 00:05:52.562 --> 00:05:55.722 it's interesting on the last episode i had emma sanders 00:05:55.722 --> 00:05:58.602 on the bbc's senior women's football news 00:05:58.602 --> 00:06:01.362 reporter and she was sort of saying the same thing there is something 00:06:01.362 --> 00:06:04.042 about i think sports and politics reporting are 00:06:04.042 --> 00:06:11.202 actually quite similar in this way that the off days are quite random and quite 00:06:11.202 --> 00:06:17.002 sporadic and you might have a very intense period and then a very quiet period 00:06:17.002 --> 00:06:23.382 and i think that's it's quite an interesting way yeah so i was thinking yesterday like. 00:06:24.282 --> 00:06:26.962 When Robert Jenner got sacked and then 00:06:26.962 --> 00:06:29.762 defected to reform I mean I you know 00:06:29.762 --> 00:06:32.442 wonder if some if you're a politics reporter you might 00:06:32.442 --> 00:06:35.262 have gone into yesterday morning not really expecting there to be 00:06:35.262 --> 00:06:38.662 you know like a colossal UK politics story even 00:06:38.662 --> 00:06:41.522 putting aside all the you know all the other very very 00:06:41.522 --> 00:06:44.842 newsworthy stuff that's happening in the news at the moment particularly in 00:06:44.842 --> 00:06:47.942 other countries but you might not have expected like the Conservative Party 00:06:47.942 --> 00:06:50.942 to set itself on fire yesterday morning and then 00:06:50.942 --> 00:06:53.722 all of a sudden this massive thing happens and then it dominates the whole 00:06:53.722 --> 00:06:56.502 day and and that's just 00:06:56.502 --> 00:06:59.462 the way of it i guess yeah i i wrote i 00:06:59.462 --> 00:07:03.102 had a couple of stories about that covering 00:07:03.102 --> 00:07:07.722 robert jenrich uh in the latest newsletter and yes i can tell you from having 00:07:07.722 --> 00:07:11.482 spoken to a few of the people in the westminster lobby they rather enjoyed themselves 00:07:11.482 --> 00:07:18.682 yesterday yeah but they they quite like a good old-fashioned pure politics story 00:07:18.682 --> 00:07:20.582 and i think and they all had quite a good time yesterday. 00:07:23.942 --> 00:07:27.022 It's interesting just coming back to the football transfers as opposed to the 00:07:27.022 --> 00:07:28.342 political transfer market. 00:07:28.842 --> 00:07:32.322 There seems to be two types of ways these stories develop. 00:07:32.902 --> 00:07:38.942 The sort of sagas. I'm thinking Mark Gehry leaving Crystal Palace. 00:07:39.082 --> 00:07:43.302 I'm thinking Antoine Semenya leaving Bournemouth where we've watched three of 00:07:43.302 --> 00:07:48.562 his last games but all the journalists know he's on his way out and keep asking the manager. 00:07:49.542 --> 00:07:52.562 And they have to ask the manager, and the manager can't say anything, 00:07:52.582 --> 00:07:55.462 and it's all a bit of a farce that everyone is dancing around, 00:07:55.462 --> 00:08:00.802 and the journalists are sort of covering this saga for week after week after week, 00:08:01.082 --> 00:08:04.662 or there's the kind of explosion, 00:08:05.182 --> 00:08:08.622 sort of, oh yeah, right, Conor Gallagher's here, and now he's going to Spurs. 00:08:08.802 --> 00:08:11.622 There's lots of other stories from lots of other clubs. 00:08:12.202 --> 00:08:17.302 How do they differ the way you cover those two different types of developing transfer story? 00:08:18.710 --> 00:08:22.550 Because yeah i mean the teams you cover have been managed to be involved in 00:08:22.550 --> 00:08:29.890 both yeah that's yeah that's true i guess like i mean there are some i guess 00:08:29.890 --> 00:08:35.370 so there's the sort of first example the one where you know that something is going to happen yeah, 00:08:36.229 --> 00:08:39.529 like usually that will be because of a 00:08:39.529 --> 00:08:42.549 player's contractual situation which means that 00:08:42.549 --> 00:08:45.269 um if they if you know right so it's 00:08:45.269 --> 00:08:48.209 like gay he's a perfect example right like gay he's gay he's 00:08:48.209 --> 00:08:50.949 nearly left palace like four times or something i think in the last two or 00:08:50.949 --> 00:08:53.769 three years but that's because he had a contract you know 00:08:53.769 --> 00:08:56.269 he's coming to the end of his contract that contract now has six months left 00:08:56.269 --> 00:09:02.029 and therefore you know there's always a lot of pressure on palace to sell him 00:09:02.029 --> 00:09:05.289 because it's the last time they can make money and therefore you're kind of 00:09:05.289 --> 00:09:07.969 always you always know that he's 00:09:07.969 --> 00:09:11.889 going to be on the market so it's always going to be a big talking point. 00:09:12.769 --> 00:09:15.469 And that's kind of been that's been the case i think as 00:09:15.469 --> 00:09:19.349 from a tottenham perspective there's not really been i guess 00:09:19.349 --> 00:09:22.749 you had to deal with three years of harry kane leaving yeah yeah 00:09:22.749 --> 00:09:25.669 that's true with kane there was never i mean 00:09:25.669 --> 00:09:28.589 kane's an interesting one right because there was a lot of talk about 00:09:28.589 --> 00:09:31.729 him going to city in the summer of 2021 nothing really 00:09:31.729 --> 00:09:35.109 in the summer of 2022 and then in 2023 he 00:09:35.109 --> 00:09:38.569 yeah he did he did in fact go to Bayern Munich whereas 00:09:38.569 --> 00:09:42.229 with and with Son for example I think it was kind of it was kind of quite widely 00:09:42.229 --> 00:09:48.209 known for the end of last season even though his the contract the option year 00:09:48.209 --> 00:09:51.609 was taken by Tottenham which meant that he was contracted for what would have 00:09:51.609 --> 00:09:56.589 been this season that it was probably going to come to a parting aways in the 00:09:56.589 --> 00:09:57.869 summer which of course is what happened. 00:09:58.809 --> 00:10:01.589 So having followed like that 00:10:01.589 --> 00:10:04.449 Harry Kane so how do you keep going 00:10:04.449 --> 00:10:07.249 back to these stories finding something new to say you know 00:10:07.249 --> 00:10:10.089 either there might not be new developments but your editor's always 00:10:10.089 --> 00:10:13.109 going to want something because everyone knows it's a big story that the fans are interested 00:10:13.109 --> 00:10:17.069 in you know same with your colleagues that cover Bournemouth with Antoine Semenu 00:10:17.069 --> 00:10:21.449 we could list loads of players where this has happened how do you keep that 00:10:21.449 --> 00:10:25.689 interesting as a journalist both for you and the audience frankly yeah it's 00:10:25.689 --> 00:10:29.189 a good question it definitely can get boring it definitely i mean i think there 00:10:29.189 --> 00:10:30.529 were definitely moments in the, 00:10:31.350 --> 00:10:34.650 in the cane cane came to city saga 00:10:34.650 --> 00:10:37.370 2021 where it did get boring but the reason it got 00:10:37.370 --> 00:10:40.370 boring is because or the main reason it got boring is because nothing was happening 00:10:40.370 --> 00:10:43.510 yeah it's not like a saga where like after 00:10:43.510 --> 00:10:46.510 particularly after he came you know he kind of was late 00:10:46.510 --> 00:10:49.290 back for training and then he came back and then it was kind of obvious for a 00:10:49.290 --> 00:10:52.050 while that city worked in a bit that's when it becomes really 00:10:52.050 --> 00:10:55.470 boring right because you're you're chasing you're chasing 00:10:55.470 --> 00:10:58.670 developments but there are no developments right everybody knew 00:10:58.670 --> 00:11:01.950 everybody knew that summer from actually probably 00:11:01.950 --> 00:11:05.070 frankly fairly early on he was 00:11:05.070 --> 00:11:08.110 just not going to go to city like city were not going to bid enough to make 00:11:08.110 --> 00:11:14.530 daniel leave me think twice about it and that can that can get a bit dull whereas 00:11:14.530 --> 00:11:18.750 at least like some at least if you've got one of those sagas i don't know he 00:11:18.750 --> 00:11:21.970 sat to liverpool or whatever at least in that case there were like bids going 00:11:21.970 --> 00:11:24.410 in and then he had this little strike and everything thing. 00:11:25.687 --> 00:11:28.687 The story was moving yeah exactly it's where it's it's 00:11:28.687 --> 00:11:32.027 the combination of like high interest and story 00:11:32.027 --> 00:11:35.307 where literally nothing is happening like the sort of stalemate story 00:11:35.307 --> 00:11:38.167 that can get a little bit boring yeah and i 00:11:38.167 --> 00:11:41.127 guess particularly at a sport publication you know 00:11:41.127 --> 00:11:44.027 where that is all what you guys do 00:11:44.027 --> 00:11:46.787 at the athletic you have to keep on top of these 00:11:46.787 --> 00:11:49.507 things even if there's nothing actually changing in 00:11:49.507 --> 00:11:54.007 reality yeah exactly it's where it's when nothing's changing at all but you 00:11:54.007 --> 00:11:58.287 know that like and like kind of understandably like from a sort of public perspective 00:11:58.287 --> 00:12:02.767 but also like editorially there's always you know like what's the latest on 00:12:02.767 --> 00:12:06.927 on this what's the latest on that and i think actually i've got a lot of respect 00:12:06.927 --> 00:12:08.847 for journalists who are able to. 00:12:09.507 --> 00:12:13.067 Who are able to make it look as if there is something happening when in fact 00:12:13.067 --> 00:12:18.227 there's not i don't mean and i don't mean but i don't mean making stuff up i just mean like, 00:12:18.787 --> 00:12:22.487 phrase like phrasing nothing happening in 00:12:22.487 --> 00:12:25.147 a way which you can still like turn into a new story to 00:12:25.147 --> 00:12:28.027 go onto the back page for example let's say hypothetical 00:12:28.027 --> 00:12:30.867 let's just use kane as example because we're talking 00:12:30.867 --> 00:12:34.267 about kane if you was if you were still at tottenham and 00:12:34.267 --> 00:12:37.047 you knew not you knew nothing was happening but if 00:12:37.047 --> 00:12:40.447 you wrote a story that was like tottenham braced 00:12:40.447 --> 00:12:43.307 for new man city offer like that doesn't mean 00:12:43.307 --> 00:12:46.287 that that doesn't mean that man city have made another offer it just 00:12:46.287 --> 00:12:49.627 means it doesn't mean nothing but it just means like the top of a news story 00:12:49.627 --> 00:12:53.147 which is not actually saying what's happened it's just saying like tottenham 00:12:53.147 --> 00:12:57.007 already nothing has happened already in case manchester city were to bid tottenham 00:12:57.007 --> 00:13:02.907 resolute in tottenham resolute in case there's another manchester offer tottenham 00:13:02.907 --> 00:13:05.447 resolute towards like prospects of a future manchester bid. 00:13:07.404 --> 00:13:10.324 You're not you're not reporting an event you're kind 00:13:10.324 --> 00:13:13.324 of reports but but you've done a news story which 00:13:13.324 --> 00:13:16.224 is which is you 00:13:16.224 --> 00:13:19.224 know kind of can go on the back page of a newspaper or the 00:13:19.224 --> 00:13:22.344 front of like a newspaper website um even though 00:13:22.344 --> 00:13:25.064 there hasn't been like a solid event and so i think there is. 00:13:25.064 --> 00:13:28.084 Always an art i think journalistically to 00:13:28.084 --> 00:13:31.244 writing writing you know writing stories 00:13:31.244 --> 00:13:34.004 when there has not been well you're not writing about 00:13:34.004 --> 00:13:36.744 an event as such but you're still kind of 00:13:36.744 --> 00:13:39.604 turning turning a kind of non-event into a 00:13:39.604 --> 00:13:42.344 new story and some of 00:13:42.344 --> 00:13:45.184 that of course has to come from your sourcing you've got 00:13:45.184 --> 00:13:48.204 to be talking in these particular parts of 00:13:48.204 --> 00:13:50.904 the season these few weeks you've got to 00:13:50.904 --> 00:13:54.544 be talking to your sources you 00:13:54.544 --> 00:13:57.304 know all day in day out yeah you have to be really 00:13:57.304 --> 00:14:00.224 annoying you have to be really you have to be annoying to 00:14:00.224 --> 00:14:03.124 be like you know messaging the same people all the time 00:14:03.124 --> 00:14:06.064 has anything happened on this has anything happened on this has 00:14:06.064 --> 00:14:08.924 he like has he and it's the same way the same transfer or sacking whatever like 00:14:08.924 --> 00:14:12.344 has he been sacked today has he been sacked today has he been sacked tomorrow 00:14:12.344 --> 00:14:15.184 yeah and eventually like and you ask 00:14:15.184 --> 00:14:17.884 you know a hundred times the answer we know and then the hundred first time 00:14:17.884 --> 00:14:21.544 the answer will be yes and i guess sort of like professionally you just have 00:14:21.544 --> 00:14:25.984 to not worry about being annoying basically or we have to like keep being annoying 00:14:25.984 --> 00:14:29.244 and say because it's as you know as a reporter being annoying is often your 00:14:29.244 --> 00:14:34.124 job yeah again you're giving me political comparisons of flashbacks I remember 00:14:34.124 --> 00:14:36.084 reporting and covering the 2015... 00:14:37.589 --> 00:14:43.389 2015 general election. And basically, every single day, I had to phone the same 00:14:43.389 --> 00:14:47.449 people in the same press offices to check what their announcements were for 00:14:47.449 --> 00:14:50.929 the day after to put it on the front page of the newspaper. 00:14:51.829 --> 00:14:56.089 I'm sure having me phone at the same time every single day was annoying to the 00:14:56.089 --> 00:14:59.349 press office. But as you say, that is your job. Who cares? 00:15:00.149 --> 00:15:04.249 And you've got to speak to your sources out campaigning and all of that. 00:15:04.509 --> 00:15:07.389 And it's a very similar thing. Actually, I've never really thought actually 00:15:07.389 --> 00:15:12.009 how close political and sports reporting can sometimes echo each other. 00:15:12.169 --> 00:15:17.049 There's so much more I want to ask you, but first I have to thank our sponsor MacPaw. 00:15:17.329 --> 00:15:20.469 This week's episode is sponsored by CleanMyMac. 00:15:20.769 --> 00:15:25.089 I'm thrilled they're supporting the show. I'm a big fan of the product. 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Thanks to CleanMyMac for supporting the show. 00:16:45.920 --> 00:16:48.700 I'm here with The Athletic's Jack Pick. 00:16:48.860 --> 00:16:52.740 We're talking all things covering the transfer window, which we are in the midst 00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:55.240 of as you listen to this show. 00:16:55.780 --> 00:17:00.880 You were talking about being annoying before, but also sometimes the people 00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:02.680 blocking your stories are pretty annoying, right? 00:17:02.780 --> 00:17:07.840 It's endlessly frustrating when you've either talked to other sources or you've 00:17:07.840 --> 00:17:13.780 talked to colleagues and you know something is developing and someone is stonewalling you. 00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:17.800 That's also deeply frustrating as a reporter uh yeah 00:17:17.800 --> 00:17:21.300 it could be i mean i generally have a pretty good relationship with you 00:17:21.300 --> 00:17:24.220 know the sort of like press officers that you have to deal with i 00:17:24.220 --> 00:17:29.680 mean i think that there's i think it's a bit of a um public i think the pub 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.520 i think it's a bit of like i think sometimes i think there's like a public view 00:17:33.520 --> 00:17:39.240 on how clubs see transfer stories which i think is not accurate in the sense 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:43.460 that i think there's like a perception on social media that. 00:17:44.368 --> 00:17:47.648 Clubs will brief out transfer 00:17:47.648 --> 00:17:51.128 stories to like curry to 00:17:51.128 --> 00:17:54.288 curry to basically look good and sell season tickets 00:17:54.288 --> 00:17:57.168 and appease fans and appease fans was i 00:17:57.168 --> 00:18:00.008 actually think that's i don't think that's true at all really i've never 00:18:00.008 --> 00:18:03.108 i don't think i've ever encountered that in my career a 00:18:03.108 --> 00:18:06.608 situation where like a club well a 00:18:06.608 --> 00:18:09.968 situation where someone who who's like a club press officer 00:18:09.968 --> 00:18:14.068 or like similar job like doing club pr will ring 00:18:14.068 --> 00:18:16.808 around journalists and say oh yeah we're really really interested in 00:18:16.808 --> 00:18:20.148 like these four players so why don't you put that on paper tomorrow i. 00:18:20.148 --> 00:18:22.848 Just i've never i have never maybe that goes 00:18:22.848 --> 00:18:25.688 on elsewhere i have never encountered that personally i actually 00:18:25.688 --> 00:18:28.408 i feel like a lot of the time like clubs like if 00:18:28.408 --> 00:18:31.208 a club is really trying to get a player i don't 00:18:31.208 --> 00:18:34.168 really think they wanted the papers that they're like yeah 00:18:34.168 --> 00:18:37.068 because as soon as like if you're i mean let's use 00:18:37.068 --> 00:18:40.008 Gallagher as an example because that happened this week I'm not 00:18:40.008 --> 00:18:42.788 sure Tottenham would have wanted people to know that 00:18:42.788 --> 00:18:45.448 they want that they were getting Gallagher until the point where it was 00:18:45.448 --> 00:18:48.228 close to being done because no I mean 00:18:48.228 --> 00:18:50.928 the whole story with that and I think you know what I'm going to come 00:18:50.928 --> 00:18:54.028 on to next is was that it was you know Aston Villa deal 00:18:54.028 --> 00:18:58.488 done Jack Pitbrook is saying he signed for Spurs yeah 00:18:58.488 --> 00:19:01.728 like I don't think that I think as well yeah 00:19:01.728 --> 00:19:05.068 I think that clubs don't i don't think clubs want want their 00:19:05.068 --> 00:19:07.928 actual targets to be reported on because 00:19:07.928 --> 00:19:10.568 as soon as something as soon as something is out there like obviously like a lot 00:19:10.568 --> 00:19:13.448 of this stuff will be known within the world of football anyway 00:19:13.448 --> 00:19:16.148 before you know tons of tons of stuff 00:19:16.148 --> 00:19:18.608 will be widely known within the world of football that isn't publicly reported 00:19:18.608 --> 00:19:23.648 by the media but i think that if you're if you're trying to sign a player you 00:19:23.648 --> 00:19:28.688 don't want pete you don't want like the sort of msm for a better of phrase doing 00:19:28.688 --> 00:19:30.808 stories about this guy who you're 00:19:30.808 --> 00:19:33.708 about to get because if it if that happens then all of a sudden like. 00:19:34.501 --> 00:19:38.241 Other agents, other clubs, whatever might get involved, or you probably want 00:19:38.241 --> 00:19:41.341 as little noise as possible until you've got him in the back. 00:19:41.761 --> 00:19:45.861 Yeah, I'm interested in this element of social media, which you mentioned a couple of times. 00:19:46.081 --> 00:19:51.321 I mean, both you and I see all this kind of football quote unquote content, 00:19:51.881 --> 00:19:53.761 you know, it's stuff just being churned out. 00:19:54.101 --> 00:19:57.441 How do you as a journalist cope with that? 00:19:57.581 --> 00:20:01.721 Because I think particularly in the kind of role you have where you report specifically 00:20:01.721 --> 00:20:07.041 on a club, people kind of come to see you as a conduit for the club. 00:20:07.241 --> 00:20:11.101 And I think sometimes you and your colleagues get attacked when actually maybe 00:20:11.101 --> 00:20:12.821 people are across at their football team. 00:20:13.958 --> 00:20:18.738 Yeah, yeah, that does happen a bit. I think there's always, I think that's always 00:20:18.738 --> 00:20:22.878 just like the kind of natural tension between being on, 00:20:23.098 --> 00:20:27.798 you know, kind of operating as a fan and then operating as a journalist is that, 00:20:27.798 --> 00:20:30.698 you know, as journalists, we're really, 00:20:31.058 --> 00:20:36.838 you know, so in terms of like the work that we publish, we're very, 00:20:37.078 --> 00:20:41.258 you know, we have very strong sort of sourcing guidelines, for example, 00:20:41.678 --> 00:20:43.398 and editorial guidelines. 00:20:43.398 --> 00:20:48.598 At the athletic we take this sort of stuff very seriously so a lot of our you 00:20:48.598 --> 00:20:51.638 know a lot of our published work will have will be very you know we kind of 00:20:51.638 --> 00:20:53.318 pride ourselves on being balanced on being. 00:20:54.318 --> 00:20:57.238 On on how we our sourcing approach 00:20:57.238 --> 00:20:59.938 and so on equally that means that we're 00:20:59.938 --> 00:21:02.718 not going to like come out with the sort 00:21:02.718 --> 00:21:06.218 of emotional hot takes that fans might do equally if 00:21:06.218 --> 00:21:09.178 you're a fan and you you know you're having your emotional hot 00:21:09.178 --> 00:21:12.498 takes because your team is rubbish which is you know totally legitimate 00:21:12.498 --> 00:21:15.178 way to live football fans kind of 00:21:15.178 --> 00:21:18.318 keep the football you know fandom keeps 00:21:18.318 --> 00:21:21.358 the um keeps the world turning around like sometimes 00:21:21.358 --> 00:21:24.018 you might read stuff written by journalists and think why don't 00:21:24.018 --> 00:21:26.818 you tell it like it is why don't you why don't you be honest about how 00:21:26.818 --> 00:21:30.618 bad this is instead of like equivocating and i 00:21:30.618 --> 00:21:33.418 i totally understand that impulse yeah on 00:21:33.418 --> 00:21:36.298 the other i have been on the other side of that impulse but it 00:21:36.298 --> 00:21:39.198 does sometimes mean there's a bit of tension right because you know 00:21:39.198 --> 00:21:44.678 the a fan might might want the journalists that they read to take kind of emotional 00:21:44.678 --> 00:21:48.798 hot you know to have like kind of like nakedly emotional view on stuff and then 00:21:48.798 --> 00:21:52.958 when we don't they read it and think well that's just club pr that's just club 00:21:52.958 --> 00:21:58.078 pr yeah yeah and that's where there's a really common tension i think in yeah how do you navigate that. 00:21:59.591 --> 00:22:06.931 I think you have to i think you i think you kind of have to you kind of have to stick to your or, 00:22:07.431 --> 00:22:12.051 you have to stick to your employer's guidelines ultimately 00:22:12.051 --> 00:22:15.131 you are a professional journalist this is 00:22:15.131 --> 00:22:18.191 my job and i'm my job is to work for the athletic uh 00:22:18.191 --> 00:22:22.431 and it maybe helps me a little bit that i'm not like a i'm not 00:22:22.431 --> 00:22:25.391 like a born tottenham fan i kind of 00:22:25.391 --> 00:22:28.091 i don't get like inspired i get annoyed if they lose because it 00:22:28.091 --> 00:22:31.111 means more work for me apart from anything else but if i don't 00:22:31.111 --> 00:22:34.031 i don't have to go on a podcast james and daddy 00:22:34.031 --> 00:22:37.611 kelly moaning i don't think it personally if they lose but 00:22:37.611 --> 00:22:40.791 yeah i think you i think as a journalist like you can sometimes probably 00:22:40.791 --> 00:22:43.631 i've definitely done this much done this myself in the past that you can get 00:22:43.631 --> 00:22:47.031 yourself in a bit of a pickle if you try to if you 00:22:47.031 --> 00:22:50.911 try to curry favor too much with fans knowing 00:22:50.911 --> 00:22:53.691 that ultimately like you can't actually give 00:22:53.691 --> 00:22:57.111 them what they want or you can't give them what they want while also. 00:22:57.111 --> 00:22:59.811 Doing your job well so you kind of you can drive yourself a 00:22:59.811 --> 00:23:02.951 bit mad at saying things or doing things like doing and we 00:23:02.951 --> 00:23:06.371 all know we've all seen this like you would have seen this a million times like 00:23:06.371 --> 00:23:09.331 when a tweet like when a journalist will be tweeting stuff which 00:23:09.331 --> 00:23:12.251 is clearly just like throwing red meat to the base just trying 00:23:12.251 --> 00:23:15.071 to curry favor with the fans and i don't know 00:23:15.071 --> 00:23:17.811 why you do it because you want the you want the retweets you want 00:23:17.811 --> 00:23:20.551 the likes you want the fans to like you want the validation of being the 00:23:20.551 --> 00:23:23.531 fan be the fans be like yes you're talking from you're 00:23:23.531 --> 00:23:26.271 speaking up for me you're speaking for us you speak for 00:23:26.271 --> 00:23:29.331 us and it's tempting like of course it's tempting like who doesn't love validation 00:23:29.331 --> 00:23:33.651 charlotte we all love validation why do you think i'm not even publishing this 00:23:33.651 --> 00:23:38.371 i just do it so you tell me how fantastic i am but we ultimately i think you 00:23:38.371 --> 00:23:44.131 have to kind of try not to you have to you have to try not to kind of access 00:23:44.131 --> 00:23:47.391 that rich seam of validation i think you have to kind of do your job. 00:23:48.473 --> 00:23:52.393 Yeah. Yes. And it's hard. We're all human, right? 00:23:52.993 --> 00:23:57.573 Let's talk about the sourcing guidelines, because I'm a nerd that finds this stuff exciting. 00:23:57.933 --> 00:23:59.173 And obviously, you're now owned 00:23:59.173 --> 00:24:02.153 by the New York Times. You have their very strict rules on this stuff. 00:24:02.813 --> 00:24:05.833 But The Athletic has always kind of had quite a high bar for things anyway, 00:24:05.993 --> 00:24:09.353 I think, even before the takeover quite a while ago now. 00:24:10.413 --> 00:24:14.913 How does that... First, to get a story published or say a transfer, 00:24:15.293 --> 00:24:18.493 how many sources do you have to have confirmed that in your 00:24:18.493 --> 00:24:21.613 guidelines what we're talking two three so i think sure i think 00:24:21.613 --> 00:24:24.373 this is this probably the sort of thing the company's quite open about i 00:24:24.373 --> 00:24:27.973 think we i don't see what i'm talking about it so yeah definitely definitely 00:24:27.973 --> 00:24:32.713 multiple sources and definitely the high like high quality sources as well like 00:24:32.713 --> 00:24:36.833 you can kind of you know football you can you know you could hear you can hear 00:24:36.833 --> 00:24:40.573 you could hear you could hear like if you ask enough people you could hear anything 00:24:40.573 --> 00:24:45.733 any number of times third hand fourth hand fifth hand sixth hand but i think the idea is or. 00:24:46.772 --> 00:24:52.132 All the other the kind of guidance the rules are that yeah multiple independent credible. 00:24:53.152 --> 00:24:56.412 Sources for uh to get anything published 00:24:56.412 --> 00:24:59.212 and we do you know we do take 00:24:59.212 --> 00:25:02.412 this stuff incredibly seriously well i 00:25:02.412 --> 00:25:05.072 mean that's basically what the whole reputation is on it if you know 00:25:05.072 --> 00:25:08.132 if people read stuff and it keeps not being correct 00:25:08.132 --> 00:25:11.352 you know people stop reading exactly 00:25:11.352 --> 00:25:14.352 things with like football transfers is 00:25:14.352 --> 00:25:17.012 pretty clear if it's correct or not because it either happens or 00:25:17.012 --> 00:25:19.692 it doesn't yeah exactly like there's a very clear you know 00:25:19.692 --> 00:25:22.892 the very clear test for what happens uh because 00:25:22.892 --> 00:25:25.752 you can just kind of see the real you know look out the window and eventually 00:25:25.752 --> 00:25:28.532 they'll be you know some player the manager will get sacked or 00:25:28.532 --> 00:25:31.272 not like the player will get transferred or not so and i also think 00:25:31.272 --> 00:25:34.552 like often with this kind of thing like you'll do you do 00:25:34.552 --> 00:25:37.372 a story and people will get will get 00:25:37.372 --> 00:25:40.372 very i've had tons of experiences where 00:25:40.372 --> 00:25:43.372 i've done a story then people on social media get really mad 00:25:43.372 --> 00:25:46.112 and then it's you know you get you kind 00:25:46.112 --> 00:25:48.912 of get annoyed right when people shout at you or i certainly get 00:25:48.912 --> 00:25:52.592 really annoyed and i try not to take it personally and 00:25:52.592 --> 00:25:55.412 then you just know that ultimately like the events will bear it out like 00:25:55.412 --> 00:26:00.212 i remember doing a story when was this march i think where i did a story saying 00:26:00.212 --> 00:26:02.812 i can't remember the exact wording it was something along the lines of like 00:26:02.812 --> 00:26:05.852 angie posthocoglio under a lot of pressure or angie posthocoglio's tottenham 00:26:05.852 --> 00:26:10.792 future in doubt but they're looking at areola marco silver and thomas frank 00:26:10.792 --> 00:26:14.732 to replace him But obviously at the time, like, you know, I wasn't the first person to do this. 00:26:14.852 --> 00:26:17.992 I think Matt Law voted the Telegraph a few days beforehand. 00:26:18.332 --> 00:26:22.672 But it was obviously true. And then he, you know, at the end of the season, he did in fact get a sex. 00:26:22.892 --> 00:26:26.152 And, you know, Marco's, Iriola wasn't at the very end of the process. 00:26:26.272 --> 00:26:29.172 But Marco Silva and Thomas Frank was the two-man shortlist at the end. 00:26:29.252 --> 00:26:31.552 And they gave it to Thomas Frank. So the story was correct. 00:26:31.972 --> 00:26:35.272 But obviously at the time, you know, you still have a lot of people on the internet 00:26:35.272 --> 00:26:37.972 yelling at you. Because they, you know. We've all been there, 00:26:38.032 --> 00:26:39.752 Jack. We've all been there. That's just the way of the world. 00:26:40.752 --> 00:26:43.552 But I think in that kind of situation you have to kind of, 00:26:44.477 --> 00:26:49.517 not get too emotionally invested in it and just kind of accept that if you're 00:26:49.517 --> 00:26:52.197 confident in your sourcing and in your reporting, which we were, 00:26:52.357 --> 00:26:54.817 then the events will probably back you up in the end. 00:26:55.997 --> 00:27:01.937 How do you navigate the sourcing in sport reporting, particularly when you're 00:27:01.937 --> 00:27:03.857 only dealing with one club, essentially? 00:27:04.837 --> 00:27:08.577 Because, you know, again, back to the politics comparison, in Westminster, 00:27:08.637 --> 00:27:09.757 everyone talks to everyone. 00:27:09.997 --> 00:27:13.337 The media, you try, you know, media reporting, to be iCover you 00:27:13.337 --> 00:27:16.797 know you try to talk to both reporters and executives so 00:27:16.797 --> 00:27:19.737 you get a perspective on all elements of a media company 00:27:19.737 --> 00:27:23.437 for example in football 00:27:23.437 --> 00:27:27.197 you know the players are very isolated and cut 00:27:27.197 --> 00:27:30.057 off from people you know they're really from what 00:27:30.057 --> 00:27:33.117 i can tell kind of coddled and why part 00:27:33.117 --> 00:27:35.817 of the reason why i love covering women's football in the way i 00:27:35.817 --> 00:27:38.857 do is because the accessibility is so much greater than 00:27:38.857 --> 00:27:42.117 men's you know the access to the heart of clubs is much 00:27:42.117 --> 00:27:45.177 greater than in the men's game for the 00:27:45.177 --> 00:27:48.097 moment so obviously you 00:27:48.097 --> 00:27:51.097 want to speak to most senior people at a club I'm guessing 00:27:51.097 --> 00:27:54.277 agents are a key part of your conversations how does 00:27:54.277 --> 00:27:57.357 it all play out again I don't expect you to give up your sources on 00:27:57.357 --> 00:28:00.337 a podcast although you're very welcome but it's 00:28:00.337 --> 00:28:03.597 just interesting how you navigate that network within the 00:28:03.597 --> 00:28:07.397 men's game yeah it's good questions quite 00:28:07.397 --> 00:28:12.937 i think ultimately there's quite a broad a broad range of people and you know 00:28:12.937 --> 00:28:16.037 you might find that you know there'll be some contacts who are incredibly helpful 00:28:16.037 --> 00:28:20.057 and some stuff but then will be you know maybe less help from other sources 00:28:20.057 --> 00:28:27.077 but in terms of the people who i would mainly mainly lean on It could be a broad range of, you know. 00:28:27.457 --> 00:28:33.937 Current club employees, club employees, player agents, other people close to players. 00:28:34.961 --> 00:28:38.341 Friends family whatever other people 00:28:38.341 --> 00:28:41.561 who work in the football industry or other people who you 00:28:41.561 --> 00:28:44.281 know have who can um you know might 00:28:44.281 --> 00:28:47.141 be like one step removed from uh the particular person 00:28:47.141 --> 00:28:50.721 you want to speak to or like professional pr people which 00:28:50.721 --> 00:28:53.861 do an awful lot uh in football um 00:28:53.861 --> 00:28:56.681 so yeah it's all about uh i think 00:28:56.681 --> 00:28:59.601 it's all about like kind of casting the net casting the 00:28:59.601 --> 00:29:02.441 net as wide as possible knowing getting a 00:29:02.441 --> 00:29:05.241 sense of getting to know your contacts as well and also getting a 00:29:05.241 --> 00:29:07.981 sense of like what are their strengths and weaknesses of 00:29:07.981 --> 00:29:11.001 contacts like is there one you know do i have contacts who 00:29:11.001 --> 00:29:13.781 are uh you know maybe like getting 00:29:13.781 --> 00:29:16.501 a bit quite kind of who are like really really good 00:29:16.501 --> 00:29:19.401 on detail or there's other contacts i've got who are like maybe a 00:29:19.401 --> 00:29:22.341 little bit hazy with the details sometimes and but know 00:29:22.341 --> 00:29:25.241 the vibe can do the vibe yeah exactly and so you've 00:29:25.241 --> 00:29:28.761 got to know like you know with some contacts like who 00:29:28.761 --> 00:29:31.461 will be who can i absolutely take it 00:29:31.461 --> 00:29:34.521 who if they tell me something i can absolutely take it to the bank and 00:29:34.521 --> 00:29:38.361 who if they tell me something i'm like oh maybe you know sometimes sometimes 00:29:38.361 --> 00:29:41.261 this contact is not so reliable on this sort of issue or 00:29:41.261 --> 00:29:44.221 whatever so it's just uh it's just a case of 00:29:44.221 --> 00:29:47.181 you know cast the net wide try and get to know people being able to 00:29:47.181 --> 00:29:49.921 i think a big skill in journalism is just like being 00:29:49.921 --> 00:29:52.741 able to sort of read people i guess 00:29:52.741 --> 00:29:55.781 like being able to understand like who like and 00:29:55.781 --> 00:29:58.681 being able to kind of verify or just get a sense if somebody's telling 00:29:58.681 --> 00:30:01.381 you something like why are they telling me this like do they have any 00:30:01.381 --> 00:30:04.121 do they have any in particular interest in this. 00:30:04.121 --> 00:30:06.841 Being published are they are they perhaps too keen for me to 00:30:06.841 --> 00:30:09.641 know this and too keen for me to publish this and sometimes you get a bit 00:30:09.641 --> 00:30:12.661 you kind of get the ick if you get a sense that like 00:30:12.661 --> 00:30:17.141 a contact is like maybe a bit too keen for me to run something so yeah it's 00:30:17.141 --> 00:30:20.501 all just it's that but then that's the kind of process that you're doing all 00:30:20.501 --> 00:30:24.821 the time and i think over time you'll kind of develop a sense of of your contact 00:30:24.821 --> 00:30:29.201 base and always trying to expand it and then who do you think you can trust 00:30:29.201 --> 00:30:32.101 the most and who I think is most reliable in any particular circumstance, 00:30:33.242 --> 00:30:37.442 Just to finish up on the transfer window, how do you at a fairly traditionally 00:30:37.442 --> 00:30:41.582 run, I know you're online, but you know, The Athletic is a partition in its 00:30:41.582 --> 00:30:45.002 presentation. It's a pretty traditional style of media outlet. 00:30:45.282 --> 00:30:49.502 You get your multiple sources, you get your stories, you publish the story on 00:30:49.502 --> 00:30:51.642 a website that you want people to subscribe to. 00:30:51.802 --> 00:30:55.322 You know, it could be a newspaper. How do you navigate that? 00:30:55.542 --> 00:30:59.642 And you know who I'm going to ask about with the likes of Fabrizio Romano just 00:30:59.642 --> 00:31:01.462 pumping stuff out on social media. 00:31:03.242 --> 00:31:07.102 That's what they do. We all assume they have good sources. Who really knows? 00:31:07.442 --> 00:31:11.222 How do you, you know, compete in that world that we live in now? 00:31:11.662 --> 00:31:15.502 Yeah, it's a good question. I think we've always, at The Athletic, 00:31:15.642 --> 00:31:19.502 we're very, you know, we obviously want, I think we have to, 00:31:19.602 --> 00:31:25.082 we stay very true to our guidelines and our values. 00:31:25.082 --> 00:31:30.782 And we know that other, you know, sometimes other outlets might beat us to stuff. 00:31:30.782 --> 00:31:33.622 But I think that we if we all if we continue to 00:31:33.622 --> 00:31:36.442 always do stuff in the right way then I think that 00:31:36.442 --> 00:31:39.222 that will that will mean that a I 00:31:39.222 --> 00:31:42.002 think we we you know we do I mean I'm lucky to 00:31:42.002 --> 00:31:45.302 work with some brilliant brilliant brilliant journalists and brilliant editors and 00:31:45.302 --> 00:31:48.162 we do get you know we get an awful lot 00:31:48.162 --> 00:31:51.202 of stuff but I think we also try and always 00:31:51.202 --> 00:31:54.482 make if we always make sure we do things in the right way and we 00:31:54.482 --> 00:31:58.002 follow our rules then I think that I hope 00:31:58.002 --> 00:32:00.802 and I'm sure I hope like this is the case we will 00:32:00.802 --> 00:32:03.562 kind of develop a reputation for you know 00:32:03.562 --> 00:32:06.582 for accuracy and for fairness which i think will kind of 00:32:06.582 --> 00:32:09.702 stand us well in the in the medium just to 00:32:09.702 --> 00:32:12.342 totally finish up the whole conversation and there'll be 00:32:12.342 --> 00:32:16.962 people listening who would love to do what you do what does your week look like 00:32:16.962 --> 00:32:20.922 not a transfer window but like a normal week which there's maybe a couple of 00:32:20.922 --> 00:32:25.582 games that you need to cover and so on uh it's good questions i do like i'd 00:32:25.582 --> 00:32:28.522 be at home where i am at the moment a bit of the time i will be in the op we've 00:32:28.522 --> 00:32:31.842 got an office in central london where i like to come into a few days a week. 00:32:33.396 --> 00:32:36.636 Not because I like massively need to, but just because I like, 00:32:36.636 --> 00:32:37.856 I like being in an office. 00:32:38.096 --> 00:32:41.416 I like talking to people who I, you know, who I would not necessarily pick up 00:32:41.416 --> 00:32:44.516 the phone to, to chat with. I think it's quite good. 00:32:44.756 --> 00:32:50.276 I think there's an upside to, to office, office work, whatever sector you work in. 00:32:50.416 --> 00:32:56.196 I will, sometimes I will go to, like, maybe there'll be a game or a press conference. 00:32:56.396 --> 00:32:58.496 So Thomas Frank's press conferences are at the Tottenham Training Ground, 00:32:58.636 --> 00:33:01.736 which is in suburban Enfield, like where the A10 meets the other than 25. 00:33:01.736 --> 00:33:05.676 It's a very long way away from where I live in Peckham I don't really know why 00:33:05.676 --> 00:33:08.996 I live in South London a couple of Tottenham but here we are a lot of the time 00:33:08.996 --> 00:33:12.816 will be when I'm in London I will always try and catch up with contacts, 00:33:12.876 --> 00:33:14.716 that's the kind of upside of being in Central. 00:33:16.066 --> 00:33:19.706 A lot of people work in football over in central london so say 00:33:19.706 --> 00:33:22.826 spurs play on a saturday and a wednesday it's 00:33:22.826 --> 00:33:25.926 fairly standard at the moment do you get to chill out 00:33:25.926 --> 00:33:28.666 on a monday and have a monday off so if i'm if i'm 00:33:28.666 --> 00:33:32.066 if i'm if i'm doing a game at the weekend i will 00:33:32.066 --> 00:33:35.146 take a day off in that week so for example tomorrow 00:33:35.146 --> 00:33:38.366 i'm going to tottenham against west ham so i didn't work 00:33:38.366 --> 00:33:40.986 yesterday and then next week i'm going 00:33:40.986 --> 00:33:43.686 to burnley against tottenham so i will have a day off next week 00:33:43.686 --> 00:33:46.426 as well also like a fair bit of my time will be 00:33:46.426 --> 00:33:49.386 spent either writing or just like thinking 00:33:49.386 --> 00:33:52.506 about what to write or talking to my editors on slack 00:33:52.506 --> 00:33:55.406 or on the phone thinking about what are we going to write next right 00:33:55.406 --> 00:33:58.046 the week after what are we going to write if they're playing well what are 00:33:58.046 --> 00:34:01.046 we going to write if they're playing badly um an insane 00:34:01.046 --> 00:34:03.806 amount of time of my time is spent on whatsapp and slack i 00:34:03.806 --> 00:34:06.666 think kind of far too much yeah it's probably 00:34:06.666 --> 00:34:09.346 bad for i feel like it's kind quite profoundly bad for my 00:34:09.346 --> 00:34:12.246 brain yep to be on messaging that 00:34:12.246 --> 00:34:15.526 much but uh here we are we're all the same so so 00:34:15.526 --> 00:34:18.466 yeah i think a lot a lot of it is spent a lot 00:34:18.466 --> 00:34:22.706 of it is spent trying to it's not it's not just like the writing and it's not 00:34:22.706 --> 00:34:26.646 just the talking to contacts there's also a lot of time is spent just kind of 00:34:26.646 --> 00:34:30.846 trying to think like two steps ahead three steps ahead yeah just said that you're 00:34:30.846 --> 00:34:34.706 you're prepared for any eventuality and of course like in reality you're not 00:34:34.706 --> 00:34:37.586 really prepared because Daniel Levy might get like, 00:34:37.806 --> 00:34:40.746 so like there are some things that might end up at Arsenal. 00:34:41.206 --> 00:34:43.806 Yeah, there are some things that you can plan for, which are... 00:34:44.351 --> 00:34:49.131 Although some things will happen to Tottenham Hotspilts or any football club where you can plan for. 00:34:49.211 --> 00:34:52.811 So for example, I mean, I don't think I'm giving too much away to say that when 00:34:52.811 --> 00:34:56.671 they sacked Antipas the Coglu, it's not like we were, it's not like we were 00:34:56.671 --> 00:34:57.971 kind of caught off guard by that. 00:34:58.051 --> 00:35:02.051 Like everybody knew that this was happening in the sort of first week of June 00:35:02.051 --> 00:35:05.571 last, yeah, first week of June last year, and then eventually it was sacked. 00:35:05.731 --> 00:35:09.411 And then we had this kind of big story on it, which was we were in a position 00:35:09.411 --> 00:35:13.451 to publish. But equally, some stuff happens which you're not prepared for. 00:35:13.611 --> 00:35:15.891 For example, Daniel Levy getting sacked in September. 00:35:17.858 --> 00:35:20.998 I think probably the biggest thing to happen to tottenham this 00:35:20.998 --> 00:35:23.798 century like or at least like on a par with bill bow and the 00:35:23.798 --> 00:35:26.598 stadium opening or like the region championship final like 00:35:26.598 --> 00:35:29.858 literally that level of like massive mega event and 00:35:29.858 --> 00:35:32.558 sometimes stuff like that will happen and you'll be and it ruined your day at 00:35:32.558 --> 00:35:35.298 the cricket yeah exactly and you won't know and you you won't 00:35:35.298 --> 00:35:38.538 be ready for it at all so yeah there's always so 00:35:38.538 --> 00:35:41.218 yeah you kind of have to you have to be thinking the back of 00:35:41.218 --> 00:35:44.178 your head what's going on you're you know you're a passionate football fan 00:35:44.178 --> 00:35:46.958 you're a passionate sports fan do you 00:35:46.958 --> 00:35:50.278 find you know fan jack 00:35:50.278 --> 00:35:53.278 and journalist jack difficult to 00:35:53.278 --> 00:35:56.098 separate no not anymore because i 00:35:56.098 --> 00:35:58.958 feel like i'm not really a football fan anymore like i love i do 00:35:58.958 --> 00:36:02.218 love the game but i'm not like i don't have emotional i don't 00:36:02.218 --> 00:36:05.258 have emotional attachment in the team 00:36:05.258 --> 00:36:08.218 yeah the team that grew up supporting manchester city i don't have an emotional attachment 00:36:08.218 --> 00:36:11.158 to them winning or losing i have 00:36:11.158 --> 00:36:16.158 more of an emotional attachment to it now than you tottenham like i have a bit 00:36:16.158 --> 00:36:20.278 of emotional attachment to tottenham like i was very happy to the point of being 00:36:20.278 --> 00:36:24.118 like moved when they won the europa league in may in bilbao that was amazing 00:36:24.118 --> 00:36:26.838 i generally want them to do well although maybe that's just me being a lazy 00:36:26.838 --> 00:36:28.538 journalist who doesn't want to like. 00:36:29.318 --> 00:36:32.358 Try and figure out why they're so bad uh so don't 00:36:32.358 --> 00:36:35.318 have much of during a tournament i will like want England's 00:36:35.318 --> 00:36:37.998 do well I cover England men's team I would love to see them 00:36:37.998 --> 00:36:40.858 win something it would be a really cool like career thing to see 00:36:40.858 --> 00:36:43.638 England win England lift the World Cup or the Euros or 00:36:43.638 --> 00:36:47.518 whatever but no like in the main no I don't have I think when I was younger 00:36:47.518 --> 00:36:52.198 I used to have that like I used to like have like a fan element of myself but 00:36:52.198 --> 00:36:57.698 I feel like I basically don't anymore so I don't have to I don't have to turn 00:36:57.698 --> 00:37:01.618 anything off or tune anything down it's just it doesn't really exist anymore 00:37:01.618 --> 00:37:03.618 for me you just enjoy watching football. 00:37:05.300 --> 00:37:11.580 Well, some of the time. After Brentford-0, Tottenham-0 on New Year's Day, 00:37:11.580 --> 00:37:14.840 I had to call 1-1-1 because my eyes were bleeding so badly. 00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:20.320 After watching Camadonso boot the ball into the clouds for 90 minutes, 00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:22.760 I came away with a horrific headache. 00:37:23.740 --> 00:37:29.100 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jack, it's such a pleasure to catch up with you and get an 00:37:29.100 --> 00:37:34.780 insight into what goes on in these rather crazy few weeks of the European transfer window. 00:37:34.780 --> 00:37:37.580 Where can people keep up with all your work well thank you so much 00:37:37.580 --> 00:37:40.180 amy charlotte it's been a pleasure uh you can read me on the 00:37:40.180 --> 00:37:42.960 athletic you can hear me talk about tottenham on 00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:45.980 view for the podcast i'm on x and blue 00:37:45.980 --> 00:37:49.140 sky and instagram as you jack pitbrook jack 00:37:49.140 --> 00:37:52.480 pitbrook athletic something like that i've really really enjoyed being on the 00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:55.720 show so thank you very much for having me no it's wonderful having you here 00:37:55.720 --> 00:38:00.340 i'm at charlotte a henry across social media if you're listening to this and 00:38:00.340 --> 00:38:03.920 you're not signed up to the newsletter head over to the edition.net and you 00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:06.100 You can read all the old blog posts, newsletters, 00:38:06.260 --> 00:38:09.220 listen to previous episodes, and so on. 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:12.800 And obviously, if you need a little January treat, you're not going out. 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:14.700 You need a little January treat. 00:38:15.060 --> 00:38:19.200 Why not pick up my latest book, Streaming Wars, and have a read of that as well. 00:38:19.640 --> 00:38:22.800 Jack, thank you once again, and I'll see you all next week.