WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:11.760 Music. 00:00:12.498 --> 00:00:18.938 Hello, we're back with the new, maybe improved, but definitely more regular TV Plus talk. 00:00:18.978 --> 00:00:22.198 I'm Charlotte Henry from The Edition. He's Jacques Joyner from Mac Voices. 00:00:23.178 --> 00:00:26.598 Charlotte, it's great to see you. Thank you so much for doing this. 00:00:26.718 --> 00:00:31.338 And I love the idea that we're ramping the frequency up because Apple TV Plus 00:00:31.338 --> 00:00:34.598 seems to generate plenty of things. 00:00:36.338 --> 00:00:39.518 Totally. We've got two very big stories and ideas to talk about this week. 00:00:39.578 --> 00:00:41.498 But I agree with you. Things seem to... 00:00:42.938 --> 00:00:46.918 Well, as we keep saying, you and I started this show just because we were interested. 00:00:47.318 --> 00:00:50.898 It was interesting to see how Apple would do TV movies streaming. 00:00:52.118 --> 00:00:57.858 And now, however many years down the line we are, what, we're five years into Apple TV Plus? 00:00:59.438 --> 00:01:02.598 It's a big player now, and there's a lot going on, and there's a lot to discuss. 00:01:03.138 --> 00:01:07.198 People seem to enjoy our discussions, so we're going to have them a little bit more regularly. 00:01:07.538 --> 00:01:10.578 And if nothing else, you and I get to hang out more, which is really what this 00:01:10.578 --> 00:01:12.278 is all about. Exactly, exactly. 00:01:12.558 --> 00:01:16.358 And you know, we should mention that, that we've had a fair amount of feedback, 00:01:16.458 --> 00:01:20.158 both of us, on these shows, and we really, really appreciate that. 00:01:20.338 --> 00:01:23.878 So if you have thoughts on our thoughts, we'd love to hear them. 00:01:23.898 --> 00:01:28.758 If you have thoughts just without us on Apple TV+, please drop us an email. 00:01:29.278 --> 00:01:32.218 I'm Chuck at Mac Voices. Charlotte, your email is? 00:01:33.178 --> 00:01:37.438 I'm Charlotte at TheEdition.net and I would absolutely love to hear from you 00:01:37.438 --> 00:01:40.958 on this show or anything else I discuss and cover it would be great to hear 00:01:40.958 --> 00:01:46.538 from you guys well, shall we dive into it because there's a couple of big topics to discuss, 00:01:47.198 --> 00:01:51.418 let's start with news and then we'll come on to views if I can put it that way 00:01:51.418 --> 00:01:56.238 a couple of weeks ago not long after we published our previous episode page 00:01:56.238 --> 00:01:58.998 6, which is part of the New York Post, isn't it? 00:01:58.998 --> 00:02:03.678 And the gossipy version part of the New York Post, the celeb version, 00:02:03.878 --> 00:02:09.058 ran a story that said, exclusive Oprah Winfrey brought back rights to Apple 00:02:09.058 --> 00:02:11.958 documentary about her to stop its release. 00:02:13.018 --> 00:02:16.458 Now, first of all, let's not worry too much about how much Oprah had to spend 00:02:16.458 --> 00:02:17.778 on this. I think she'll be OK. 00:02:18.518 --> 00:02:22.798 Let's start with that. This this is interesting on a number of levels, 00:02:22.938 --> 00:02:24.818 which is why you flagged it up to me. 00:02:26.198 --> 00:02:31.198 So the film was meant to be directed By the Oscar winner Kevin Macdonald. 00:02:31.997 --> 00:02:35.897 Um she teamed up with lisa espama 00:02:35.897 --> 00:02:38.537 i'm sorry about my pronunciation who has a 00:02:38.537 --> 00:02:41.917 long time worked with produced for oprah winfrey 00:02:41.917 --> 00:02:47.737 uh and then she didn't apparently oprah didn't like the film and that was the 00:02:47.737 --> 00:02:54.297 end and it hasn't been out and it's kind and now it's and she paid back apple 00:02:54.297 --> 00:02:58.657 apparently this is kind of interesting on a lot of different levels not least 00:02:58.657 --> 00:03:01.737 because Because you and I both remember the launch of Apple TV+, 00:03:01.737 --> 00:03:06.557 which Oprah was a huge part of, wasn't she? That Billion Pockets-y old video. 00:03:06.797 --> 00:03:11.497 There was so much about her. And now she pulling back from TV+, 00:03:11.497 --> 00:03:16.317 she certainly doesn't want this film out there. It's kind of interesting, isn't it? 00:03:16.637 --> 00:03:21.037 I think it's real interesting. And as we said pre-show when we were debating 00:03:21.037 --> 00:03:26.057 how to present this, we don't want to get into conspiracy theories or any of that. 00:03:26.057 --> 00:03:29.017 It's just the idea that the film was made 00:03:29.017 --> 00:03:32.297 and you know and she had paid basically 00:03:32.297 --> 00:03:35.557 that given the rights away and she now was 00:03:35.557 --> 00:03:40.857 willing to buy it back and lock it away and so you have to wonder what the contents 00:03:40.857 --> 00:03:45.997 of the film were and why and as you said you know then you sort of merge that 00:03:45.997 --> 00:03:51.017 in with why that she seemed to be what we all thought was going to be kind of 00:03:51.017 --> 00:03:52.757 a key player in apple tv Plus. 00:03:53.317 --> 00:03:58.297 And that never really completely evolved or developed. 00:03:58.857 --> 00:04:03.857 And so to your point, does this signal just a complete parting of the ways or 00:04:03.857 --> 00:04:07.957 is it just a parting of the ways on this particular film? 00:04:09.077 --> 00:04:13.237 So it's definitely project specific, but we should know, and Engadget did when 00:04:13.237 --> 00:04:17.637 it was writing up this story, that actually Oprah Winfrey has already stepped 00:04:17.637 --> 00:04:21.697 away once from Apple TV Plus because she ended the deal with them that she had in 2022. 00:04:22.237 --> 00:04:25.017 That was about that. Do you remember that show, The Oprah Conversation, 00:04:25.137 --> 00:04:28.117 all that stuff? That ended in 2022. 00:04:28.557 --> 00:04:32.197 So she really has over the years really moved backwards from it. 00:04:33.477 --> 00:04:37.097 And so, look, I'll say right up front, I'm not a big Oprah fan. 00:04:37.177 --> 00:04:41.037 So I haven't watched this as closely as maybe some folks do. 00:04:41.557 --> 00:04:46.197 But I also feel like she may have been pulling back from a lot of different 00:04:46.197 --> 00:04:51.437 things for a lot of different reasons. She still has that visibility that when 00:04:51.437 --> 00:04:56.217 somebody says Oprah's going to do this, oh, my, Oprah's going to do this. Oh, yeah. 00:04:56.457 --> 00:04:59.937 But that said, she doesn't have the daily show anymore. 00:05:01.237 --> 00:05:07.057 She seems to pick and choose things, which is her prerogative for someone at her stage of her career. 00:05:07.157 --> 00:05:09.837 She is 17. I read it. Yeah, and her success level. 00:05:10.157 --> 00:05:17.097 So I think it's interesting. But one can't help but wonder if this will ever 00:05:17.097 --> 00:05:19.137 see the light of day. It probably won't. 00:05:19.477 --> 00:05:23.057 And why? What was it about it that she didn't care for? 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:27.440 Yeah i just can't see that 00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:31.000 it's ever going to see the light of day deliberately you 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:35.500 know she's decided she doesn't like the movie for whatever reason so apple 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:39.140 she's giving apple the money back and that's the end of that there's no way 00:05:39.140 --> 00:05:43.660 that we're going to see this yeah and i wonder actually if we'll ever really 00:05:43.660 --> 00:05:48.440 see any link ups now between apple tv plus and oprah i feel like that's sort 00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:54.260 of come to an end that was the initial big kind of showy launch for tv plus and now it feels to me 00:05:54.300 --> 00:05:57.040 like that whole thing is at an end and i don't 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.500 know about you but i can't really figure out why because it 00:06:00.500 --> 00:06:04.000 feels like apple tv plus has delivered on it's 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:07.020 so much of its original promise of telling 00:06:07.020 --> 00:06:13.660 quality stories and you know unless you just think that they were she or others 00:06:13.660 --> 00:06:17.420 thought that they were all going to be very very highbrow and very very deep 00:06:17.420 --> 00:06:26.460 and meaningful and they've decided they have evolved into something that has a bit more broad appeal, 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:30.520 and choosing to do so in different categories. 00:06:32.500 --> 00:06:36.740 I mean, I have to say, whatever criticisms you want to make of Apple TV+, 00:06:36.740 --> 00:06:40.900 and we do tend to make them, Chuck, you and I, I think the one thing you can't 00:06:40.900 --> 00:06:45.920 doubt is the sort of production and quality of the content, even if you don't enjoy watching it. 00:06:46.640 --> 00:06:49.660 Oh, absolutely. absolutely and so i don't 00:06:49.660 --> 00:06:52.900 see that should be the issue i just maybe you 00:06:52.900 --> 00:07:00.040 know maybe apple decided it can move on um you know oprah is look she's still 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:04.900 a superstar but there are hotter up-and-coming figures right there's people 00:07:04.900 --> 00:07:09.800 moving up maybe they want to focus on that listen i don't want to disparage oprah i wouldn't dare, 00:07:10.788 --> 00:07:13.888 But, you know, maybe they're just looking for a different thing now. 00:07:14.568 --> 00:07:18.128 Well, and I think we can segue this a little bit, this discussion, 00:07:18.148 --> 00:07:23.628 into the other news that was recently announced that Apple is going to put a 00:07:23.628 --> 00:07:26.808 bit of a budget on their movies, 00:07:27.088 --> 00:07:30.628 as opposed to some of the ones we talked about that were so, 00:07:30.648 --> 00:07:32.808 so large and so expensive. 00:07:34.088 --> 00:07:37.728 So Martin Scorsese spent all the money, right? Well, I wasn't going to call 00:07:37.728 --> 00:07:38.788 any names, but okay. Okay. 00:07:39.968 --> 00:07:43.808 You know, so I, and I've, I've have to wonder if maybe Apple has learned a little 00:07:43.808 --> 00:07:48.548 bit of a lesson that short of superhero movies or a lot of special effects, 00:07:48.748 --> 00:07:52.928 maybe you don't need those huge budgets to tell some great stories. 00:07:54.668 --> 00:07:59.988 Yeah. So, yeah, I think possibly they may well have been burned a little bit 00:07:59.988 --> 00:08:03.368 by killers of the flower moon, which I don't know what you think. 00:08:03.548 --> 00:08:06.348 For me, it cost a lot of money and it from 00:08:06.348 --> 00:08:09.148 i don't think it made the impact that that type of 00:08:09.148 --> 00:08:12.548 money would justify i i i 00:08:12.548 --> 00:08:17.788 look i've not seen it so and i've even more that's the point yeah you and i 00:08:17.788 --> 00:08:21.568 have not seen it have you heard huge amounts of conversation about no no i mean 00:08:21.568 --> 00:08:27.608 except in the awards areas where oh you know this actor was great or the costumes 00:08:27.608 --> 00:08:30.868 were great or you know the The cinematography was great, 00:08:30.988 --> 00:08:36.588 but the story and taking nothing away from the story because I don't want to get emails. 00:08:36.848 --> 00:08:41.308 You know, that's not the point. The point is how broad an appeal did it have? 00:08:43.675 --> 00:08:48.195 Yeah, and look, it did win some awards. It won Film Critics Award. 00:08:48.655 --> 00:08:52.035 It won, you know, Lily Gladstone won the Golden Globe for Best Actress. 00:08:52.035 --> 00:08:58.255 You know, there's no denying that it was a critically well-received movie. 00:08:58.455 --> 00:09:00.515 Lily Gladstone won a couple of awards, actually. 00:09:02.395 --> 00:09:05.855 But for the amount of money it spent, I'm not sure it was the thing that drew 00:09:05.855 --> 00:09:08.295 people to Apple TV+, that they wanted it to. 00:09:08.735 --> 00:09:11.655 You know, you used an interesting phrase there, critically acclaimed. 00:09:12.575 --> 00:09:19.155 And it seems like a healthy portion of critically acclaimed movies aren't necessarily 00:09:19.155 --> 00:09:24.715 popular movies, and popular movies aren't necessarily critically acclaimed. 00:09:25.115 --> 00:09:30.635 So who were these movies being made for? 00:09:30.735 --> 00:09:33.355 I know you and I have a little bit of a disagreement over Napoleon. 00:09:34.695 --> 00:09:37.735 I didn't think it was a great movie. We don't have a disagreement. 00:09:37.815 --> 00:09:41.435 I just, as a matter of principle, won't watch something that's three days long. 00:09:43.035 --> 00:09:45.255 I'm not sure if it was three days, maybe two and a half. 00:09:47.155 --> 00:09:51.315 But, you know, listen, I enjoyed it. I have not taken the time to go back and 00:09:51.315 --> 00:09:55.295 watch the new extended version, but I thought it was a good movie. 00:09:55.635 --> 00:09:59.355 Like Life's Too Short. Yeah, it wasn't a great movie. It was a good movie. 00:09:59.415 --> 00:10:00.375 I thoroughly enjoyed it. 00:10:00.555 --> 00:10:06.695 Not sure it's going to get put in the rewatch pile, and that one cost a whole pile of money as well. 00:10:07.315 --> 00:10:12.395 So did we really need those? I mean, they were spectacular battle scenes, 00:10:12.635 --> 00:10:17.515 you know, and I can't imagine what it cost to, well, I guess we can't imagine 00:10:17.515 --> 00:10:20.715 because we know what the budget was. So, you know, it was just crazy. 00:10:22.950 --> 00:10:27.990 Yeah it was huge amount of money i also wanted to just turn it back to our first story i wonder, 00:10:28.870 --> 00:10:34.650 if you know the ending of the deal in 22 with oprah you know now they've had 00:10:34.650 --> 00:10:39.570 this movie buyback as well i wonder if some of that about you know the changing 00:10:39.570 --> 00:10:44.210 dynamics of that relationship is also about apple trying to be a bit restrained 00:10:44.210 --> 00:10:47.910 in what it spends you know oprah it doesn't come cheap, 00:10:48.570 --> 00:10:51.530 no but it well okay for other projects 00:10:51.530 --> 00:10:54.510 i mean you know the movie itself the movie was paid for 00:10:54.510 --> 00:10:59.470 it was made and oprah bought it so she's just so you know that was that was 00:10:59.470 --> 00:11:04.570 a wash i i as a director i think i'd be more than a little bit unhappy that 00:11:04.570 --> 00:11:09.150 i just spent all this time crafting this documentary that as a director i'd 00:11:09.150 --> 00:11:14.050 be very happy with and suddenly it gets shelved never to be seen Absolutely. 00:11:14.450 --> 00:11:19.910 Also, I mean, from a personal perspective, I'd be fascinated to see a documentary about Oprah. 00:11:20.070 --> 00:11:23.270 I think her story, I'm fascinated by her. 00:11:23.770 --> 00:11:28.550 Yeah, see, that's the difference here. And, you know, we have on this show a 00:11:28.550 --> 00:11:30.710 man and a woman. We have U.S. and U.K. 00:11:31.950 --> 00:11:35.330 You know, we have different demographics here. And, you know, 00:11:35.330 --> 00:11:37.610 great, if you're interested in it, that's terrific. 00:11:37.950 --> 00:11:43.070 I just think she's a fascinating media figure, a brand Oprah. I find fascinating. 00:11:43.670 --> 00:11:46.270 But we're never going to get to see the documentary, sadly. 00:11:47.990 --> 00:11:53.630 What do you think? Okay. Do you think Oprah had to call Tim Cook and be like, Tim, I'm really sorry. 00:11:53.730 --> 00:11:56.070 I don't like the movie. Here's the check. Yeah. 00:11:57.843 --> 00:12:02.443 Well, okay, I give Oprah credit for having a lot of power. 00:12:02.563 --> 00:12:07.063 And so if she was that unhappy with it and willing to pony up the money, 00:12:07.743 --> 00:12:10.223 yeah, she may have, or her people did. 00:12:11.023 --> 00:12:16.343 So it was not a huge loss for Apple. I also have to think that Apple TV Plus 00:12:16.343 --> 00:12:22.923 maybe looked at it and said, eh, it'd be better to get the money back. 00:12:23.063 --> 00:12:25.263 Well, that's the interesting point. 00:12:25.483 --> 00:12:29.943 They didn't have to do the deal. That's a very interesting point. Yeah. So. 00:12:31.603 --> 00:12:34.323 Yeah. Apple, you know, it takes two to tango, right? 00:12:34.443 --> 00:12:37.323 They didn't have to accept the money. They could have said, this is so brilliant 00:12:37.323 --> 00:12:39.403 and so important that we have to have it out there. 00:12:39.503 --> 00:12:42.583 We don't care how much money you want to wave in front of us. Right. 00:12:42.683 --> 00:12:44.943 So I can think of two reasons. 00:12:45.163 --> 00:12:46.703 Either they didn't think it 00:12:46.703 --> 00:12:49.023 was going to be that great and so they were happy to get the money back. 00:12:49.323 --> 00:12:55.023 Or they didn't want to invoke the ire of Oprah at whatever power level she has. 00:12:55.023 --> 00:12:59.783 Or maybe a combination of both and just said fine yeah i suspect it's a bit 00:12:59.783 --> 00:13:04.463 of a combat very very interesting just before we move on i want to tell you 00:13:04.463 --> 00:13:05.683 something also exciting, 00:13:06.423 --> 00:13:12.343 um i just below the oprah story then gadget they have the story that apple tv 00:13:12.343 --> 00:13:18.183 is going to make the three classic peanut specials free to stream not even going 00:13:18.183 --> 00:13:19.143 to have to have an apple tv, 00:13:19.703 --> 00:13:22.523 plus subscription so that's very 00:13:22.523 --> 00:13:26.743 exciting obviously uh it's the great pumpkin charlie brown a charlie brown thanksgiving 00:13:26.743 --> 00:13:30.683 and a charlie brown christmas obviously we're moving towards the time of year 00:13:30.683 --> 00:13:37.103 where those three are perhaps of some relevance so you're gonna be able to watch 00:13:37.103 --> 00:13:41.323 those on apple tv plus for free which is rather nice isn't it for a limited time, 00:13:42.234 --> 00:13:44.674 You know, they're both the same time frames. And, of course, 00:13:44.694 --> 00:13:48.094 if you are an Apple TV Plus subscriber, you can watch them anytime you want. 00:13:48.534 --> 00:13:51.214 You know, you can celebrate July 4th with them if you want. 00:13:52.154 --> 00:13:58.014 But the idea – I love this because there was a lot of controversy when Apple 00:13:58.014 --> 00:14:02.174 sort of obtained the – People were not happy. They were really not. 00:14:02.294 --> 00:14:09.254 And Apple has really stepped up, I think, and recognized these are now holiday classics. 00:14:09.254 --> 00:14:11.934 Classics and it's so 00:14:11.934 --> 00:14:14.734 interesting these were not a big deal in the uk as far as 00:14:14.734 --> 00:14:18.254 i can tell but they're a huge deal in the us they are i mean 00:14:18.254 --> 00:14:21.714 i mean i've you know i've seen 00:14:21.714 --> 00:14:26.194 them over the years you know some i'm not going to say every year but plenty 00:14:26.194 --> 00:14:31.414 of times and you know that they they fall into that oh the holiday movies at 00:14:31.414 --> 00:14:34.714 some point we'll probably talk about you know it's a wonderful life and and 00:14:34.714 --> 00:14:38.114 those kind of things i think they've we're not talking about christmas yet i'm 00:14:38.114 --> 00:14:40.414 I'm absolutely intervening if you start talking about Christmas. 00:14:41.774 --> 00:14:46.474 Well, I'm not ready to yet. We still have Halloween and Thanksgiving to get through. 00:14:46.694 --> 00:14:53.154 So just on your point of the limited time of these free shows, 00:14:53.454 --> 00:14:54.194 you're absolutely right. 00:14:54.294 --> 00:14:58.714 So it's The Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown, going to be free on October the 19th and 20th. 00:14:58.974 --> 00:15:02.494 Charlie Brown Thanksgiving, November the 23rd and 24th. 00:15:03.214 --> 00:15:06.994 Charlie Brown Christmas, free on December the 14th and 15th. 00:15:06.994 --> 00:15:11.094 And for the people that criticize that and say that's not enough, 00:15:11.294 --> 00:15:17.714 when these were on broadcast TV, they were shown once, once per season. 00:15:18.114 --> 00:15:22.194 Maybe – They were on PBS, right? CBS, I believe. 00:15:23.514 --> 00:15:26.894 And maybe there was one that might have been shown like twice, 00:15:26.974 --> 00:15:29.314 but I don't remember that for sure. 00:15:29.854 --> 00:15:34.394 But so broadcast – it was appointment TV. If you wanted to see this, 00:15:34.454 --> 00:15:36.714 you had to sit down at that time and watch it. 00:15:36.994 --> 00:15:41.694 Now you have all those time periods to just punch the button and watch it as 00:15:41.694 --> 00:15:44.154 you wish with whoever you wish. 00:15:44.614 --> 00:15:47.134 So in some ways, it's actually better than it was. 00:15:49.355 --> 00:15:55.475 Yeah and anyway lots of people when someone buys you a lovely new iphone you 00:15:55.475 --> 00:16:00.175 can get a free year or three three months whatever it is now and you can watch 00:16:00.175 --> 00:16:04.855 them whenever you want but yes so there'll be for two days each month for october 00:16:04.855 --> 00:16:06.155 november december the relevant, 00:16:07.155 --> 00:16:11.515 charlie brown special peanut special will be available for free which i think is rather lovely, 00:16:12.175 --> 00:16:15.015 and actually it's a quite a nice segue into the main kind 00:16:15.015 --> 00:16:18.495 of thing although we've been talking quite a lot already that we want to chat 00:16:18.495 --> 00:16:23.155 about well i certainly do which was this really interesting article i saw it 00:16:23.155 --> 00:16:27.115 seems to be on tech hive from macworld it's written by ben patterson anyway 00:16:27.115 --> 00:16:32.415 um and it's this idea which you and i've touched on plenty of times because it's one of the. 00:16:34.335 --> 00:16:37.895 Big discussion points about apple tv plus is is 00:16:37.895 --> 00:16:41.375 it going to introduce advertising and what 00:16:41.375 --> 00:16:44.455 is it it going to do about pricing and those two obviously 00:16:44.455 --> 00:16:48.075 can be very interlinked uh so ben's article 00:16:48.075 --> 00:16:52.795 you know pointed a few different possibilities what's 00:16:52.795 --> 00:16:57.815 your take so far i'll give you mine in a minute sure i i can say this about 00:16:57.815 --> 00:17:03.595 all the streaming services that if i'm willing to pay and they set the price 00:17:03.595 --> 00:17:08.095 if i'm willing to pay it then i i'm paying for no advertising. 00:17:08.755 --> 00:17:14.295 I think I'm not just paying for access and then having the advertising supplement the provider. 00:17:14.875 --> 00:17:22.715 And so I would be hugely disappointed if they introduced an advertising supported 00:17:22.715 --> 00:17:24.635 tier, excuse me, service. 00:17:24.855 --> 00:17:28.595 That said, if you want to provide an advertising supported tier, 00:17:29.515 --> 00:17:31.335 that's fine at a lower price. 00:17:32.215 --> 00:17:35.535 I have no problem with that. Right. 00:17:36.743 --> 00:17:41.763 So here's the interesting thing. Ben is not sure it will be free, 00:17:41.823 --> 00:17:43.743 and I think I have some sympathy for his argument. 00:17:43.963 --> 00:17:50.043 Sorry, not free, but they might do what Amazon did and keep advertising tier 00:17:50.043 --> 00:17:58.523 at the current level and make you pay more for no ads, if that makes sense. 00:17:58.623 --> 00:18:02.603 Yeah, and if that's the way the market is going, that's fine. 00:18:02.723 --> 00:18:06.563 Look, the prices on everything are definitely going up. 00:18:07.023 --> 00:18:12.703 And so yeah so i mean he again sorry to interrupt but he also speculates you could have 12.99, 00:18:13.303 --> 00:18:17.203 for that yeah 12.99 for an ad free tier um yeah 00:18:17.203 --> 00:18:21.463 so you're paying like three dollars more a month yeah so that's to get rid of 00:18:21.463 --> 00:18:27.403 the ad so three dollars is 36 dollars more a year and you know so again you 00:18:27.403 --> 00:18:32.843 just the way i look at it you do the math you figure out how many how many hours 00:18:32.843 --> 00:18:35.703 How many hours of enjoyment you're getting out of this? How many hours of entertainment? 00:18:36.343 --> 00:18:43.603 And then balance that with what you get from Netflix, Paramount, any of the others. 00:18:44.183 --> 00:18:50.343 Balance that out against what you can get, although the entertainment is not necessarily current, 00:18:50.543 --> 00:18:55.303 from something like Tubi or Pluto TV or whatever that is ad-supported, 00:18:55.383 --> 00:19:00.943 and you're not paying anything for it, and then figure out what works best for you. too. 00:19:01.483 --> 00:19:03.903 But I don't mind paying for a premium service. 00:19:04.543 --> 00:19:07.943 And if the premium price is a little more, then the premium price is a little 00:19:07.943 --> 00:19:09.963 more. But at least give me that option. 00:19:12.563 --> 00:19:19.403 So I really agree with you about the first thing you said, which was, 00:19:19.423 --> 00:19:22.263 you know, basically, if I'm paying, I don't expect ads. 00:19:23.123 --> 00:19:27.143 Now, obviously, there is kind of TV packages that, you know, 00:19:27.143 --> 00:19:31.383 live broadcast TV, Sky in the UK, Cable in the US, whatever, 00:19:32.243 --> 00:19:37.423 or Freeview in the UK as well, where we pay for stuff but also get adverts. We do accept that. 00:19:37.723 --> 00:19:41.763 But I think streaming, and I've said this to you, I'm sure, and I've written it before, 00:19:42.043 --> 00:19:46.403 streaming to me, the deal it seemed to be was it's not going to be cheap, 00:19:46.423 --> 00:19:50.943 but it's going to be not crazy expensive, but you're going to have to pay a 00:19:50.943 --> 00:19:53.843 meaningful amount of money each month or each year. 00:19:53.843 --> 00:19:56.643 But you in return for that you get 00:19:56.643 --> 00:19:59.903 high quality content and you don't see adverts 00:19:59.903 --> 00:20:04.903 that seem to be the deal with with 00:20:04.903 --> 00:20:08.123 streaming and i think all these services 00:20:08.123 --> 00:20:13.743 are slightly breaking that deal and i think for example on podcasts and i would 00:20:13.743 --> 00:20:18.803 say this wouldn't i for me the deal is it's free it's accessible wherever you 00:20:18.803 --> 00:20:22.183 want it but you might have to listen to a couple of ads hopefully Hopefully 00:20:22.183 --> 00:20:24.903 products are interesting to you, the listener and interest, 00:20:25.083 --> 00:20:27.243 you know, endorsed by the presenter. 00:20:27.563 --> 00:20:29.523 I think that's also a fair deal. 00:20:30.919 --> 00:20:34.119 Do you know what I mean? Like, I think those were the deals we were initially 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:37.479 used to, and I'm happy to kind of stick to them. Right. 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:45.699 Um, and yet the streamers, Amazon, Netflix, possibly now Apple seem to be breaking 00:20:45.699 --> 00:20:46.759 their end of the bargain. 00:20:48.579 --> 00:20:53.579 Um, okay. So, well, first of all, I, we're going to stay away from podcasts 00:20:53.579 --> 00:20:55.799 because that could be a whole separate discussion. 00:20:56.219 --> 00:20:59.639 Um, I, of course, but I'm just making the comparison. 00:20:59.919 --> 00:21:06.419 Um, So maybe when this was all new and everybody was trying to figure out how 00:21:06.419 --> 00:21:08.939 much – in fact, I think is the case. 00:21:09.159 --> 00:21:11.899 When everybody was trying to figure out how much revenue could, 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:17.379 would be generated from these services versus what it was going to cost to produce 00:21:17.379 --> 00:21:21.859 or create or operate these services. 00:21:22.459 --> 00:21:26.199 The math was done and they thought, okay, this can happen. 00:21:26.199 --> 00:21:31.139 And now the return on investment is not where they want it to be. 00:21:31.219 --> 00:21:34.979 In fact, it's pretty clear that some of these services have been losing money for a while. 00:21:35.219 --> 00:21:40.399 And so in order to survive, they have to up their game and up their prices. 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:44.899 And frankly, up their game as well because now there's more competition than ever. 00:21:45.219 --> 00:21:50.499 I mean, when Netflix was all by itself, the only thing it was competing with was cable. 00:21:50.999 --> 00:21:55.379 And now it's competing with a whole lot of other options, including 00:21:55.379 --> 00:21:58.959 youtube which also is ads ad 00:21:58.959 --> 00:22:01.819 supported or you can pay for a premium service 00:22:01.819 --> 00:22:07.999 if you want you know it just is the way the world has gone and so i i get your 00:22:07.999 --> 00:22:12.339 i get the point about the breaking the contract but you know what broadcast 00:22:12.339 --> 00:22:19.979 tv broke the contract too because it used to be you had four or five minutes of ads per hour. 00:22:20.459 --> 00:22:26.999 And now it's horrifying how many ads, with the little bit of broadcast TV that 00:22:26.999 --> 00:22:33.039 I watch, and I mean I watch very, very little, I'm just shocked at how many ads there are. 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:39.219 Yeah, I think that's different in the U.S. and America. Probably so. Probably so. 00:22:41.071 --> 00:22:44.011 Again i would have to say i don't have a problem as 00:22:44.011 --> 00:22:47.471 a matter of principle in obviously with media 00:22:47.471 --> 00:22:50.231 funded by advertising i really don't i 00:22:50.231 --> 00:22:53.011 think that is a perfectly reasonable model that everyone can buy 00:22:53.011 --> 00:22:55.931 into but i don't think tv streaming was 00:22:55.931 --> 00:22:58.711 meant to be that i actually have a service i've tested out 00:22:58.711 --> 00:23:02.211 some of the free streaming services in the uk um 00:23:02.211 --> 00:23:04.891 there's one called you it has a whole load of old 00:23:04.891 --> 00:23:07.691 tv and stuff on it there's plenty of 00:23:07.691 --> 00:23:10.691 adverts in it but i don't pay for it i accept that there's 00:23:10.691 --> 00:23:13.571 adverts there okay that seems a perfectly fair 00:23:13.571 --> 00:23:17.111 deal to me um but it's 00:23:17.111 --> 00:23:22.011 about i think it's about respecting your viewers and your customers it's about 00:23:22.011 --> 00:23:30.931 also it's about offering the best quality of product right not having you know 00:23:30.931 --> 00:23:35.731 making sure that you can pay for good quality content And also making sure viewers can watch it in a, 00:23:35.731 --> 00:23:38.411 you know, not uninterrupted, but, 00:23:38.491 --> 00:23:41.331 you know, way that they expected, a clear way. 00:23:42.011 --> 00:23:47.531 I think, you know, you know, the odd pre-roll ad, okay, that's one thing, 00:23:47.591 --> 00:23:48.411 that's not a huge problem. 00:23:48.491 --> 00:23:53.591 But, you know, interrupting a drama, you know, halfway through the morning show 00:23:53.591 --> 00:23:56.771 and having an ad break would probably be quite annoying, right? 00:23:57.891 --> 00:24:06.871 When I paid $9.99 a month for it as well. No, but if the program – oh, I can't remember. 00:24:07.431 --> 00:24:12.611 I'm sorry. No, was it Hulu? I don't know. There was one service that picked 00:24:12.611 --> 00:24:14.131 up a lot of the old advertising. 00:24:14.271 --> 00:24:19.691 This is early on in the streaming situation, where they would pick up old content, 00:24:19.851 --> 00:24:23.211 and then they would just randomly, at a given moment, right in the middle of 00:24:23.211 --> 00:24:24.871 a sentence, they'd drop in an ad. 00:24:25.671 --> 00:24:29.891 Right. As opposed to the way it was when network TV was done, 00:24:29.991 --> 00:24:35.531 where the productions were done so that the ad breaks could be kind of put in logically. 00:24:35.991 --> 00:24:40.251 They fit in. And so that's where I see it. 00:24:40.611 --> 00:24:44.751 That's why I don't think I'd have a real big issue as long as the ad breaks 00:24:44.751 --> 00:24:50.811 are put in intelligently and aren't interrupting the content other than the 00:24:50.811 --> 00:24:52.331 fact that they're interrupting the content. 00:24:52.931 --> 00:24:57.331 And you can pay to not have it. And I could pay to not have it would be my ideal. 00:24:59.679 --> 00:25:05.839 Okay yeah i look i'm not sure it would make me cancel something i wouldn't, 00:25:06.679 --> 00:25:12.699 i was just pondering actually as you were talking would i cancel my tv plus subscription, 00:25:13.479 --> 00:25:16.959 because there were adverts or would i pay for the new what 00:25:16.959 --> 00:25:19.959 would i do would i cancel would i pay for the more expensive version 00:25:19.959 --> 00:25:23.519 would i keep it as it is and have ads it's an 00:25:23.519 --> 00:25:26.599 interesting question i suspect i would 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.759 keep the package i have and you know have 00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:32.479 adverts okay so let me throw out 00:25:32.479 --> 00:25:37.079 two other ways to look at it all right and and for any of these streaming services 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:42.579 all right what does it cost you per day to subscribe to that streaming service 00:25:42.579 --> 00:25:46.879 and this i'm going to use an example it's going to i guarantee upset people 00:25:46.879 --> 00:25:51.499 so here here it comes folks but i see ads on TV for, 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:56.999 you know, well, this dog food is better for my dog, and it's only so many more cents per day. 00:25:57.639 --> 00:26:02.979 Only so many more cents per day. And so, you know, my dog is worth it. 00:26:03.019 --> 00:26:07.759 All right, well, how much is it worth to you to have all that content on that 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:09.059 service available to you? 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:15.779 The other thing is, if you look at it as spending a premium dollar to buy back 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:17.579 time that you or otherwise waste. 00:26:18.059 --> 00:26:23.219 And it's hard to be productive or get anything done during an ad. 00:26:24.999 --> 00:26:33.619 There's not enough time. So if I can buy back 14, 16 minutes of a given program, 00:26:34.939 --> 00:26:40.259 by not having to watch the ads, I mean, I'm buying back some time. 00:26:40.419 --> 00:26:46.279 And so that concept appeals to me a lot because then now I've got 14 to 16 minutes 00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:50.579 that I can go and I can actually do something in 14, 16 minutes. 00:26:52.859 --> 00:26:58.099 So you're saying you would rather not have adverts, make the show is 42 minutes 00:26:58.099 --> 00:27:00.679 instead of 58, 59 minutes. 00:27:01.599 --> 00:27:07.359 That has more value to you. If I value the content in the first place, yes. 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.239 Sure, sure, sure. But I'm taking that as given. Yeah, absolutely. 00:27:11.399 --> 00:27:13.839 Now, there are times that I will – I don't mind saying that. 00:27:13.839 --> 00:27:18.119 There are times I will put it on Pluto TV in the background and the adverts 00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:19.679 are the adverts and, you know, fine. 00:27:20.459 --> 00:27:24.839 You know, on some old show, Star Trek, that, you know, I just, 00:27:24.939 --> 00:27:28.739 I'm happy to, yes, I know, Sherwin, that I'm happy to have on. 00:27:28.879 --> 00:27:32.619 Oh, my God, stop. You know, and that's great. It doesn't bother me. 00:27:33.179 --> 00:27:38.459 Maybe it doesn't bother me also because those were produced with those acts 00:27:38.459 --> 00:27:42.019 in mind so that it doesn't destroy the flow of the show. Yeah. 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:49.300 Yeah. And I also think there's also a really interesting consideration, 00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:51.180 particularly for Apple TV Plus, right? 00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:56.180 And you and I know this as people that have podcasts with adverts, hopefully, sometimes. 00:27:57.500 --> 00:28:02.740 We care about the quality of the companies that work with us and we advertise, right? 00:28:03.380 --> 00:28:07.460 And that's important to us because it tells you something about a show that 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:13.760 we want to work with good companies on those adverts. And I guess Apple will feel the same, right? 00:28:13.840 --> 00:28:17.060 Like it's got to maintain a standard of the brands it works with. 00:28:19.120 --> 00:28:24.860 I would hope so. And that would feel very Apple-like as opposed to just going out and grabbing money. 00:28:26.280 --> 00:28:29.060 And I know you and I. It will be really interesting to see. 00:28:29.080 --> 00:28:32.340 Yeah, you and I are represented by the same organization. organization and 00:28:32.340 --> 00:28:35.440 we get opportunities to you know to 00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:38.420 approve or not approve the possibility 00:28:38.420 --> 00:28:41.540 of having an advertiser and you know 00:28:41.540 --> 00:28:46.620 i i know we've both turned down things that would they have been lucrative well 00:28:46.620 --> 00:28:51.900 lucrative is relative but it would have been nice to have but i can't see it 00:28:51.900 --> 00:28:57.120 it doesn't fit my show and it doesn't fit my comfort level of having you on 00:28:57.120 --> 00:28:58.800 as a guest not not on TV Plus Talk, 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.740 but just on regular Mac Voices and saying, 00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:05.260 okay, basically we're going to take a break and talk about this. 00:29:05.740 --> 00:29:11.060 And it just doesn't work. I would be embarrassed to then have you go back and 00:29:11.060 --> 00:29:15.900 look at your interview and say, oh, my God, you know, I'm being associated with that product. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:22.540 This is the thing about Apple is so brand conscious that it would be really 00:29:22.540 --> 00:29:24.240 interesting to see who it would work with. 00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:32.500 And would that does that mean that Apple would command a premium would the advertisers 00:29:32.500 --> 00:29:34.880 pay more to be on Apple TV Plus, 00:29:36.645 --> 00:29:39.745 There is no way that they wouldn't want to do premium stuff. 00:29:40.865 --> 00:29:46.665 No way. It's got to be premium bands. Well, I would think that anybody wants 00:29:46.665 --> 00:29:49.925 to have their product, no matter what it is, perceived as premium. 00:29:51.785 --> 00:29:55.125 Anyway, this is all very interesting. I'm really fascinated to see where this 00:29:55.125 --> 00:29:58.285 goes because streaming does seem to be, whether I like it or not, 00:29:58.285 --> 00:30:00.785 moving into the ad-supported era. 00:30:00.905 --> 00:30:04.725 So it's going to be really interesting to see where we go with that. 00:30:04.725 --> 00:30:07.465 But, of course, this is no done deal yet. 00:30:07.745 --> 00:30:14.705 So we really – I suspect, Chuck, this is not the last time we have to discuss this topic. 00:30:15.265 --> 00:30:19.225 Just to wrap up, have you been watching anything good, enjoyable on Apple TV 00:30:19.225 --> 00:30:21.725 Plus that you want to tell our listeners and viewers about? Charlotte, 00:30:21.725 --> 00:30:25.365 I would love to tell you something. I've been watching, but I haven't been watching anything. 00:30:25.805 --> 00:30:29.025 Life has been more than a little busy in the last month. 00:30:29.345 --> 00:30:32.245 And so I am so far behind on everything. everything i 00:30:32.245 --> 00:30:35.065 have my i have my watch list slow horses is 00:30:35.065 --> 00:30:38.305 right up there at the top but i i want 00:30:38.305 --> 00:30:41.705 those are the see this is an interesting point those are the kind of things 00:30:41.705 --> 00:30:46.565 i want to give quality time i want to sit and pay attention and not be doing 00:30:46.565 --> 00:30:50.945 something else because they are so good oh no you've got to sit and watch public 00:30:50.945 --> 00:30:54.845 slow horses properly that is i have to say what i've been working through i'm 00:30:54.845 --> 00:30:58.105 on just coming towards end of season two of slow horses it is 00:30:58.165 --> 00:31:01.065 brilliant i absolutely love it i'm so pleased it's on 00:31:01.065 --> 00:31:06.385 tv plus it's great it's a really fantastic show so maybe we just identified 00:31:06.385 --> 00:31:10.485 the still we're right back to it that's the thing that pulls us to apple tv 00:31:10.485 --> 00:31:16.365 plus is the quality of the shows if you value that content i know we've agreed 00:31:16.365 --> 00:31:21.045 on a lot of yeah we've agreed on a lot of content we don't always agree on all the the content. 00:31:21.225 --> 00:31:28.065 But we both agree that what is there is quality and that it deserves your time. 00:31:30.725 --> 00:31:34.705 There's plenty of stuff that i think deserves my time on that um and we'll see if advertisers, 00:31:35.305 --> 00:31:38.825 are brought in and if they agree chuck where shall we keep up with you away 00:31:38.825 --> 00:31:43.245 from tv plus talk uh macvoices.com that's where you'll see everything i do we 00:31:43.245 --> 00:31:45.165 do a live show tuesday nights uh 00:31:45.165 --> 00:31:48.605 we'd love to have you in the chat room at youtube.com slash macvoices tv, 00:31:49.385 --> 00:31:54.225 and charlotte we have a brand new website at macvoices including a new mac it's 00:31:54.225 --> 00:31:57.825 very shiny Yes, I stayed up all night polishing it. 00:31:58.645 --> 00:32:04.485 And we have now a blog, too, that gives me another platform to share some of 00:32:04.485 --> 00:32:08.245 my thoughts, random thoughts about tech, as well as some other things. 00:32:08.405 --> 00:32:11.365 So go and check it all out. Looks great. I really like it. 00:32:11.445 --> 00:32:17.225 And I'm pleased that there's even more Chuck Joyner for my money. I'm very excited. 00:32:18.125 --> 00:32:21.525 So good luck with building the blog. I'm at Charlotte A. 00:32:21.525 --> 00:32:24.645 Henry across social media. head over to the edition.net where 00:32:24.645 --> 00:32:27.705 there's blogs podcasts and newsletters from 00:32:27.705 --> 00:32:31.685 me newsletters are paid for premium products i hope you will jump in and enjoy 00:32:31.685 --> 00:32:37.105 that as well we cover all the crossover of media culture sport that are tech 00:32:37.105 --> 00:32:42.045 in there as well so i hope you enjoy that we'll be back in the not too distant 00:32:42.045 --> 00:32:44.905 future with more tv plus talk thanks for watching.