WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.160 Music. 00:00:10.004 --> 00:00:16.344 Welcome to the edition podcast it was so-called up front week last week which 00:00:16.344 --> 00:00:20.944 is when a load of tv people go and tell a load of advertisers why they should 00:00:20.944 --> 00:00:22.364 give tv people their money, 00:00:23.504 --> 00:00:27.764 isn't that right mark stembird from that week hello hello yeah i think that's 00:00:27.764 --> 00:00:32.984 the most succinct way of describing it that i've ever heard perfect great we'll 00:00:32.984 --> 00:00:34.004 see you all next week thank you so 00:00:34.044 --> 00:00:40.644 much um no you spent a lot of your week as i understand it last week in dark auditoriums, 00:00:41.264 --> 00:00:44.544 listening to television execs as i say talk to 00:00:44.544 --> 00:00:47.544 advertisers yes and 00:00:47.544 --> 00:00:50.384 you know there are worse ways to spend your week it's not an office 00:00:50.384 --> 00:00:53.124 there is uh typically some sort of 00:00:53.124 --> 00:00:56.084 coffee or table snack provided okay 00:00:56.084 --> 00:00:59.224 let's pause on this important moment who provided 00:00:59.224 --> 00:01:02.544 you with the best snacks please i it 00:01:02.544 --> 00:01:05.844 so it's not apples to apples uh as 00:01:05.844 --> 00:01:08.604 it were uh because sometimes the presentation would be 00:01:08.604 --> 00:01:11.484 in the morning so then it's coffee whereas like the 00:01:11.484 --> 00:01:15.264 ones i went to in the evening they'll follow with sort of canapé and uh and 00:01:15.264 --> 00:01:20.724 uh some cocktails but i would say disney disney had the best best spread disney 00:01:20.724 --> 00:01:24.804 had the best spread okay that's very important um what else did you gather from 00:01:24.804 --> 00:01:27.724 the week i've got a few key things i want to ask you about but what were your 00:01:27.724 --> 00:01:29.984 takeaways away apart from putting food in your pocket? 00:01:30.744 --> 00:01:36.464 Yeah, I mean, it was fascinating. I think for upfronts, it was a big week of bursts and novelty. 00:01:36.664 --> 00:01:40.964 And as you and I were just saying, so much news was broken in sort of a five day span. 00:01:41.124 --> 00:01:44.844 Just the timing of this thing where it's like you have all these storylines 00:01:44.844 --> 00:01:46.724 swirling around the CTV space. 00:01:47.024 --> 00:01:51.604 And then those just happen to culminate during this week where you have a flood 00:01:51.604 --> 00:01:54.464 of marketers come into the city and everybody's in the same room. 00:01:54.704 --> 00:01:58.004 And all the reporters are speaking with all the executives. And so you You just 00:01:58.004 --> 00:02:03.704 have this real, just like sort of big bang of news coming out. 00:02:04.124 --> 00:02:07.084 I would say the main storylines are 00:02:07.084 --> 00:02:12.644 this was really the first year where streaming was the bell of the ball. 00:02:12.884 --> 00:02:17.264 I mean, I worked with the Interactive Advertising Bureau on a story last week, 00:02:17.284 --> 00:02:21.484 and this is 2024 marks the first year that more ad spend will be going to streaming 00:02:21.484 --> 00:02:22.484 than will be going to linear. 00:02:22.584 --> 00:02:26.644 So this is officially the sort of the inflection point year, at least in the US. 00:02:27.864 --> 00:02:35.444 I want to pause on that because that's a really significant moment in one, 00:02:35.524 --> 00:02:41.944 because it shows that the streamers now have enough ad tech and people paying 00:02:41.944 --> 00:02:46.984 for those ad supported tiers that it's worth the advertisers putting serious money into. 00:02:47.724 --> 00:02:53.684 And secondly, it just shows the sort of death spiral that the linear broadcast 00:02:53.684 --> 00:02:56.384 are really getting into, doesn't it? 00:02:57.734 --> 00:03:02.734 It does. It absolutely does. I think that for your first point, 00:03:02.914 --> 00:03:08.254 I mean, we could do a whole podcast on this, the difference between linear and streaming. 00:03:08.394 --> 00:03:11.234 It's so interesting because there's kind of a parallel between, 00:03:11.314 --> 00:03:14.334 obviously I come and I cover like the newspaper and magazine world. 00:03:14.374 --> 00:03:18.054 So there's sort of an analogy between print newspapers and digital newspapers, 00:03:18.294 --> 00:03:21.574 but those are fundamentally different products, different mediums. 00:03:21.674 --> 00:03:26.534 Whereas with digital and linear, you're really getting a pretty similar product 00:03:26.534 --> 00:03:28.414 in terms of the content that you're consuming. 00:03:28.494 --> 00:03:31.814 You're consuming it maybe on the same screen that you would watch linear TV on. 00:03:31.874 --> 00:03:35.934 The primary differences for an advertiser is the ad targeting capabilities, 00:03:36.394 --> 00:03:38.874 which are way better in CTV than they are in linear. 00:03:39.054 --> 00:03:42.234 So there's not a lot of inhibition for, for streamers. I mean, 00:03:42.254 --> 00:03:44.514 it's a new space, there's fragmentation problems, et cetera, 00:03:44.534 --> 00:03:46.594 but I don't think anyone's really dragging their feet. 00:03:46.714 --> 00:03:50.214 There's really this sense of as soon as the linear carpet is ready, 00:03:50.254 --> 00:03:52.754 or sorry, as soon as the The streaming carpet is ready to be rolled out. 00:03:53.094 --> 00:03:54.354 Advertisers are down to walk it. 00:03:55.714 --> 00:03:59.974 So it's moving pretty quickly. And the one thing, as I'm sure we're going to 00:03:59.974 --> 00:04:04.894 talk about, that's really kind of propping linear up and impeding that transition is sports, 00:04:05.154 --> 00:04:10.194 which remain still, by and large, a property of linear television, 00:04:10.374 --> 00:04:11.994 although it's pretty 50-50 at this point. 00:04:12.954 --> 00:04:15.854 That was another massive thing. Brackets for now. 00:04:16.974 --> 00:04:20.494 Yeah, exactly. Because the game, I was going to say the game is changing, 00:04:20.554 --> 00:04:23.654 excuse the pun, but, you know, stuff is changing in that space. 00:04:23.774 --> 00:04:26.174 And I've written about it. You know, it's one of my favourite topics and we 00:04:26.174 --> 00:04:27.874 will definitely come on to it. 00:04:28.514 --> 00:04:32.154 The other topic I wanted to talk about, and you've sort of led us nicely to 00:04:32.154 --> 00:04:37.854 it, is I've heard other podcasts on this as well, is how the tech companies 00:04:37.854 --> 00:04:39.994 are now such a big part of this week. 00:04:40.114 --> 00:04:43.894 It's no longer just the traditional TV studios, very far from it. 00:04:43.894 --> 00:04:49.234 You know, there's now a huge YouTube event Brandcast during Upfront's weeks 00:04:49.234 --> 00:04:52.334 You know, Amazon, Apple All these companies are, 00:04:52.999 --> 00:04:56.259 Did Apple do something? They are all part of this week now, aren't they? 00:04:57.859 --> 00:05:01.159 You'd have to Google. I'm not actually, I don't know that Apple did something. 00:05:02.259 --> 00:05:06.079 They might have. Well, I suppose they don't really have the ad platform anywhere 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:07.979 apart from when they're doing Major League Baseball. 00:05:08.179 --> 00:05:12.479 But the point is these tech companies are a huge part of this week now. 00:05:13.499 --> 00:05:16.259 Yeah. And it's kind of funny because as we were just saying, 00:05:16.339 --> 00:05:20.359 I've been covering this space for a bit, but this is my first proper upfronts 00:05:20.359 --> 00:05:23.879 week. I've been to New Fronts before, which are almost exclusively the domain 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:25.939 of technology companies. Explain the difference. 00:05:26.919 --> 00:05:33.659 New Fronts were for companies that had video advertising that were not traditional television companies. 00:05:34.659 --> 00:05:39.479 And so like at this last week at New Fronts, like I went to Roku had a presentation 00:05:39.479 --> 00:05:42.259 and Spotify did its first ever New Front. 00:05:42.359 --> 00:05:46.099 So way more tech oriented, whereas upfronts were historically historically, 00:05:46.119 --> 00:05:48.839 the domain of proper linear television companies. 00:05:50.119 --> 00:05:54.119 And this year, I think, is where the walls came down on that division. 00:05:54.419 --> 00:05:57.739 When I was following the news, it really felt like that. 00:05:58.459 --> 00:06:01.839 Yeah. Well, it's just funny because to me, I feel like as somebody who's like, 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:06.779 and probably most of your listeners, how have you been watching television in the last five years? 00:06:06.939 --> 00:06:11.119 I would imagine there's been a fair element of streaming in it. 00:06:11.119 --> 00:06:13.979 So the division of like up fronts is for 00:06:13.979 --> 00:06:17.319 linear and new fronts is for streaming to 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:20.419 me feels like really almost outdated all the 00:06:20.419 --> 00:06:23.179 hullabaloo of oh this is the first year where amazon's in 00:06:23.179 --> 00:06:25.999 the new fronts and netflix isn't or sorry in the up fronts and netflix 00:06:25.999 --> 00:06:29.219 is in the up fronts it's like oh about time like 00:06:29.219 --> 00:06:32.579 it's kind of overdue to a degree like i've 00:06:32.579 --> 00:06:35.239 been consuming those like tv for years of course you have and 00:06:35.239 --> 00:06:37.999 it feels like a nonsense and especially now that some of those 00:06:37.999 --> 00:06:41.799 streaming services are doing more and more live things i.e linear 00:06:41.799 --> 00:06:45.179 television yeah exactly the 00:06:45.179 --> 00:06:48.579 the distinction is a nonsense now yeah i 00:06:48.579 --> 00:06:51.519 mean i guess i should say with something like netflix of course they 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.639 only introduced ads in 2022 so that was you 00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.639 know maybe of course that makes sense that they were holding off but prior 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.079 to that all the other streamers any of them that had ads i 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:04.719 mean this i guess that's probably the larger story even above 00:07:04.719 --> 00:07:07.499 all of this is the introduction of ads to the. 00:07:07.499 --> 00:07:10.459 Streaming service services and how that 00:07:10.459 --> 00:07:13.459 has changed the landscape because now effectively if 00:07:13.459 --> 00:07:17.099 you're an ad buyer peacock is competitive with 00:07:17.099 --> 00:07:19.879 prime is competitive with paramount is 00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:23.519 competitive with netflix so it the the playing 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.759 field is competitive with abc is competitive with cnn 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:29.699 is competitive with etc etc etc there's 00:07:29.699 --> 00:07:33.079 more people asking for your money now if you're an advertiser um 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:39.979 but just on this merging of tech and media which of course is the whole point 00:07:39.979 --> 00:07:45.439 of this show the whole point of the edition in broadly where do you think this 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:50.959 was one of the first years where the advertisers have really given up trying to differentiate. 00:07:53.621 --> 00:08:00.081 Oh, good question. I would say not quite, right? 00:08:00.181 --> 00:08:04.641 Because like you go to any of these streaming, I'm sorry, you go to any of these, 00:08:04.701 --> 00:08:06.841 the terminology is also muddled now. 00:08:06.901 --> 00:08:10.501 You go to a linear, like, let's say NBC Universal. 00:08:10.801 --> 00:08:14.341 I went to their upfront. They obviously have Peacock, but they have a bunch 00:08:14.341 --> 00:08:16.021 of linear TV channels as well. 00:08:16.361 --> 00:08:22.561 The fact that they still have linear is an advantage to them compared to a Netflix. 00:08:22.561 --> 00:08:24.261 Because how is Netflix going to reach anybody? 00:08:24.521 --> 00:08:27.761 You know what I mean? I mean, it's an obvious sort of distinction to make, 00:08:27.821 --> 00:08:31.621 but Netflix can only reach you if you are streaming. It can't reach you if you 00:08:31.621 --> 00:08:32.321 have a cable subscription. 00:08:33.841 --> 00:08:36.921 So Peacock and Paramount, all these companies that have both, 00:08:37.101 --> 00:08:41.421 can still pitch Disney, obviously being another one, can pitch them having both 00:08:41.421 --> 00:08:45.341 as a massive advantage. And it frankly is. 00:08:46.541 --> 00:08:50.301 So, I mean, that's why it's... But all these marketers, I think, 00:08:50.321 --> 00:08:53.481 are trying to look into the future and say, what direction does this go in? 00:08:53.721 --> 00:08:56.761 Linear is circling the drain. 00:08:57.021 --> 00:09:01.061 So we don't want to invest too much in some sort of big linear proposition. 00:09:01.501 --> 00:09:06.121 Yet at this moment and this year and maybe next year and maybe the next year, 00:09:06.321 --> 00:09:07.801 linear is still going to have some relevance. 00:09:08.061 --> 00:09:15.681 So it does make sense that they're not fully collapsing all the boundaries between it. 00:09:15.761 --> 00:09:20.461 And you can reach tens of millions of hundreds of millions of people on linear 00:09:20.461 --> 00:09:22.421 that you still can't reach on streaming. 00:09:22.641 --> 00:09:26.181 So it's still good to have both, I think. Yeah. And I guess also, 00:09:26.281 --> 00:09:27.981 if you'll say NBC Universal, 00:09:28.281 --> 00:09:33.781 you can go, okay, so there's less people watching our TV networks, 00:09:33.921 --> 00:09:38.621 but the younger people, the people you really care about have already moved 00:09:38.621 --> 00:09:41.181 over to Peacock. So you still want to give us your money. 00:09:42.044 --> 00:09:46.424 Yeah, exactly. And the older people that make more money are still watching cable. 00:09:46.724 --> 00:09:52.204 So I mean, which, again, nominally, the streamers don't have as much access to. 00:09:52.524 --> 00:09:55.424 Again, how long that's relevant is a matter of debate. 00:09:55.604 --> 00:10:00.584 But at this moment in 2024, it's a good position to be able to say we can offer you both. 00:10:00.724 --> 00:10:03.504 And so I think marketers are still making that distinction. distinction 00:10:03.504 --> 00:10:06.384 let's jump to netflix because they obviously everyone's been 00:10:06.384 --> 00:10:09.264 really interested in how their ad tier 00:10:09.264 --> 00:10:14.004 performs as you say it's only been going since 2022 um it 00:10:14.004 --> 00:10:20.264 seems to me to be going quite well they're now at per that uh up front's week 00:10:20.264 --> 00:10:25.264 40 million global monthly active users on that tier that's not to be sniffed 00:10:25.264 --> 00:10:30.944 that yeah that's up i think in 8x improvement from from, I think, 00:10:30.964 --> 00:10:32.384 just last year when it was 5 million. 00:10:32.664 --> 00:10:36.784 So, and it's double, well, it's double. I'm reading, I've got an NBC News article 00:10:36.784 --> 00:10:40.604 up here. It was 23 million in January. 00:10:41.464 --> 00:10:47.204 Yeah. And the other stat they keep trotting out is 40% of all new subscribers 00:10:47.204 --> 00:10:48.904 are subscribing to the ad tier. 00:10:49.764 --> 00:10:52.964 So there's growth there. You'd have to look at the numbers. 00:10:53.004 --> 00:10:59.284 I still think that that makes Netflix a small ad tier by comparison and to the 00:10:59.284 --> 00:11:00.924 other streamers with add-tos, right? 00:11:01.024 --> 00:11:07.544 So it's nascent, it's growing, but it's still kind of minuscule compared to the others. 00:11:07.684 --> 00:11:09.864 I think I was thinking about it just before we got on this call, 00:11:09.944 --> 00:11:13.224 the Amazon Prime strategy or the Prime Video strategy of, okay, 00:11:13.244 --> 00:11:19.104 everybody who has Prime Video, now you watch ads, unless you want to pay $3 more, then it's no ads. 00:11:19.244 --> 00:11:26.004 I wonder if to what degree Netflix is bandying about that proposition. 00:11:26.004 --> 00:11:30.524 Can I just say, I have mentioned it on this show. 00:11:30.664 --> 00:11:34.004 I don't know if I sent you an angry email. I may well have done. 00:11:34.144 --> 00:11:37.104 How outrageous what Amazon did with Prime Video. 00:11:37.544 --> 00:11:44.104 You can't just, I mean, it feels like a complete breaking of the contract between 00:11:44.104 --> 00:11:46.544 customers and company to do that. 00:11:47.164 --> 00:11:50.064 Maybe actually, I think I said it on the Daily 10 News show, actually. 00:11:50.684 --> 00:11:54.024 This is just so outrageous because we all took on streaming. 00:11:54.024 --> 00:11:57.784 We knew we'd have to pay slightly more and that 00:11:57.784 --> 00:12:00.864 means you didn't have your programming interrupted by 00:12:00.864 --> 00:12:06.944 advertising now i have to say i have zero problem with advertising i love adverts 00:12:06.944 --> 00:12:11.664 particularly when you buy them on this show hi um i have no problem i'm happy 00:12:11.664 --> 00:12:16.124 to listen to content and watch content that has adverts and i you know i'm happy 00:12:16.124 --> 00:12:19.484 for that as a payoff between it being cheaper it being free, whatever. 00:12:19.664 --> 00:12:25.904 I don't mind that. But these places, Prime Video included, charged a premium 00:12:25.904 --> 00:12:28.844 on the premise you would not watch adverts. 00:12:29.164 --> 00:12:31.924 And that seems to have been completely 00:12:31.924 --> 00:12:34.944 broken. I think Netflix introduced that ad to in a far better way. 00:12:36.805 --> 00:12:40.725 Yeah, for a consumer perspective, absolutely. For an advertiser perspective. 00:12:41.125 --> 00:12:45.905 They're kind of wondering, you know, why Netflix doesn't try the Amazon approach. 00:12:46.045 --> 00:12:49.945 I completely agree with you, though. And this sort of I feel like sometimes 00:12:49.945 --> 00:12:51.525 in these upfronts weeks, 00:12:51.705 --> 00:12:57.665 there needs to be like a representative that that voices the concerns of consumers 00:12:57.665 --> 00:13:01.185 at every like one of these panels and says like, but wait a minute, 00:13:01.265 --> 00:13:04.585 what about when you said no ads or like another price hike or how am I supposed 00:13:04.585 --> 00:13:06.685 to watch all these sports or like whatever the case is? 00:13:06.685 --> 00:13:09.825 Because there's such a discrepancy between conversations you 00:13:09.825 --> 00:13:12.485 have with marketers where they're like the more people watching ads the 00:13:12.485 --> 00:13:15.185 better etc and then the conversations you have 00:13:15.185 --> 00:13:18.285 with normal people or even those even those marketers when they're thinking 00:13:18.285 --> 00:13:21.625 as consumers where it's just like yeah this is uh this is ridiculous i was just 00:13:21.625 --> 00:13:25.345 talking with my parents last night about how many different services you have 00:13:25.345 --> 00:13:29.825 to subscribe to to watch all the sports that you want um so i do think and that 00:13:29.825 --> 00:13:33.785 leads to maybe the other macro theme of this last week which was 00:13:33.945 --> 00:13:36.805 bundling i would say it's probably like first time up 00:13:36.805 --> 00:13:40.005 front uh sports and 00:13:40.005 --> 00:13:44.365 bundling i would say are the main main three themes from last week let's do 00:13:44.365 --> 00:13:48.485 bundling and then we'll go on to sports what was your impression of this all 00:13:48.485 --> 00:13:54.445 this talk about bundling because it's happened a lot yeah i none of the proposed 00:13:54.445 --> 00:13:59.985 bundles have released prices yet as far as i know so we're all sort 00:14:00.065 --> 00:14:03.545 of speculating as to what sort of savings they will create, 00:14:03.805 --> 00:14:06.305 but I think it is a very logical idea. 00:14:07.045 --> 00:14:10.905 Consumers are clamoring for it. The streaming services need to, 00:14:11.045 --> 00:14:17.725 for the most part, consolidate a little bit, just because there's too many things 00:14:17.725 --> 00:14:18.825 that people are expected to pay. 00:14:19.165 --> 00:14:25.125 And there are some of these third, fourth, fifth, sixth tier streaming services 00:14:25.125 --> 00:14:28.025 that don't really have any hope of standing on their own two feet. 00:14:28.025 --> 00:14:30.305 It makes a lot of sense for them to combine forces. 00:14:30.385 --> 00:14:32.565 But there's the Disney one, isn't there? There's one that involves Disney. 00:14:33.691 --> 00:14:37.691 There's it's disney hulu and max is 00:14:37.691 --> 00:14:40.811 one of the bundles that was announced and then 00:14:40.811 --> 00:14:44.411 the other one stream saver is netflix peacock 00:14:44.411 --> 00:14:51.931 and apple um and then of course you have the newly christened venue which that's 00:14:51.931 --> 00:14:55.371 the sports service yeah and if you talk to anyone involved there they'll say 00:14:55.371 --> 00:14:59.331 it's not a bundle it is a mvpd which 00:14:59.331 --> 00:15:03.451 i had to familiarize myself with um Translate that to English for us. 00:15:04.171 --> 00:15:07.891 It's a multi-channel video programming distributor. 00:15:08.691 --> 00:15:09.711 Oh, shut up. It's a bundle. 00:15:11.931 --> 00:15:16.631 I have to get a little bit more familiar with exactly how they're different. 00:15:17.251 --> 00:15:22.271 But it effectively is acting more akin to a cable subscription or a virtual 00:15:22.271 --> 00:15:26.871 MVPD than it is a bundle per se. 00:15:27.031 --> 00:15:30.671 But, you know, colloquially, they're similar concepts. 00:15:30.671 --> 00:15:33.411 Yeah uh just to say as well while we're talking about ad 00:15:33.411 --> 00:15:36.191 tiers we said netflix is up to 40 million on its ad tier 00:15:36.191 --> 00:15:39.211 the peak comcast said peacock was at 34 million 00:15:39.211 --> 00:15:41.891 subscribers so the netflix ad tier on its 00:15:41.891 --> 00:15:49.411 own is bigger than peacock there you go it was kind of fascinating um i suppose 00:15:49.411 --> 00:15:53.271 peacock brings us nicely to sports because it had that huge day when it had 00:15:53.271 --> 00:15:59.731 the nfl playoff game all All the data suggests that people have hung around since that, 00:16:00.891 --> 00:16:03.971 which proves a topic you and I have discussed before, which is how important 00:16:03.971 --> 00:16:05.691 sports is as a gateway drug. 00:16:07.071 --> 00:16:12.231 We've obviously got the NBA. We were talking about the NBA playoffs from the 00:16:12.231 --> 00:16:13.491 weekend. I'm so sorry for your loss. 00:16:15.271 --> 00:16:18.671 And, you know, those rights are up for grabs, aren't they? 00:16:18.771 --> 00:16:23.751 And it's general consensus now that one of the streamers is going to take at 00:16:23.751 --> 00:16:24.851 least one of the packages. 00:16:25.471 --> 00:16:30.131 I saw we had Roger Goodall, didn't we, the head of the NFL, turn up at one of 00:16:30.131 --> 00:16:32.871 the presentations. Was that YouTube he turned up at, I think? 00:16:34.069 --> 00:16:38.169 That could be the case. I missed that. Yeah, I think he turned up a YouTube 00:16:38.169 --> 00:16:43.749 brand cast because obviously YouTube TV has all the Sunday ticket stuff now. 00:16:44.469 --> 00:16:47.969 It's just becoming a huge part of the streaming ecosystem, isn't it? 00:16:48.849 --> 00:16:54.869 It is. And it's fascinating seeing all this jockeying, especially for the NBA rights packages. 00:16:55.109 --> 00:16:57.869 There's three of them. Two of them have basically been claimed. named 00:16:57.869 --> 00:17:01.669 the middle one the tier b is sort 00:17:01.669 --> 00:17:04.589 of in the midst of a tug of war i think right now between 00:17:04.589 --> 00:17:07.629 comcast and warner brothers discovery um and 00:17:07.629 --> 00:17:11.609 i guess smart sources are saying comcast is 00:17:11.609 --> 00:17:14.469 is the the likelier contender there but i think 00:17:14.469 --> 00:17:17.249 all of this underscores the larger theme which is that 00:17:17.249 --> 00:17:20.749 streamers are trying to get their hands on sports rights um 00:17:20.749 --> 00:17:23.509 across the board i mean it's crazy roku who just signed this 00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:26.529 mlb deal people are coming up with sports 00:17:26.529 --> 00:17:29.389 that americans are hardly watching at all 00:17:29.389 --> 00:17:32.209 and these streaming services are trying to get them such as 00:17:32.209 --> 00:17:34.989 under i think i read something about you know 00:17:34.989 --> 00:17:38.029 rugby and like not formula one but like 00:17:38.029 --> 00:17:41.249 grand prix and like just you 00:17:41.249 --> 00:17:44.069 know grand prixs are in formula one 00:17:44.069 --> 00:17:47.029 but that could be okay then a different a different kind of racing 00:17:47.029 --> 00:17:50.029 anyway okay that's not nascar it's not f1 00:17:50.029 --> 00:17:53.109 and anyway um could be formulated the 00:17:53.109 --> 00:17:56.109 electronic cars one maybe it's all these 00:17:56.109 --> 00:17:59.129 esoteric sports i mean anything because so i 00:17:59.129 --> 00:18:05.149 think there's a nice tie in here because the whole genesis of upfronts was that 00:18:05.149 --> 00:18:11.209 advertising inventory on linear streaming channels linear channels used to be 00:18:11.209 --> 00:18:16.009 scarce right there was a finite amount of it with streaming streaming, 00:18:16.009 --> 00:18:17.949 that scarcity basically disappears. 00:18:18.169 --> 00:18:22.389 People can watch whatever, whenever, and however many millions of people can 00:18:22.389 --> 00:18:25.009 watch it. So you theoretically never sell out, right? 00:18:25.129 --> 00:18:27.789 The exception to that is still sports. 00:18:28.049 --> 00:18:32.449 And so that's one of the primary reasons why sports have been so popular is 00:18:32.449 --> 00:18:33.949 because there's still a scarce resource. 00:18:34.229 --> 00:18:37.049 That's item one. And then the other component of their popularity, 00:18:37.329 --> 00:18:39.869 I was speaking with the source who was like, this doesn't get enough attention. 00:18:40.489 --> 00:18:44.629 Really from like a programming bet, you've had all these massive swings from 00:18:44.629 --> 00:18:49.509 the streamers, like think about Amazon prime paying however many hundreds of 00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:53.089 millions of dollars for the Lord of the Rings series, which to my understanding 00:18:53.089 --> 00:18:54.429 was kind of a flop, right? 00:18:54.469 --> 00:18:58.869 Or you have these like big bets that don't pan out. This guy was saying, Oh, 00:18:59.482 --> 00:19:02.362 Sports is just a bet that always is going to pan out. 00:19:02.502 --> 00:19:06.162 You're almost guaranteed to get the same amount of audience this year as you 00:19:06.162 --> 00:19:08.862 got last year, and you get that same audience next year. 00:19:08.962 --> 00:19:12.362 Maybe it can even grow, but it's basically a sure thing. 00:19:12.682 --> 00:19:17.262 And in this era of these programming hits or misses and trying to get audience 00:19:17.262 --> 00:19:22.022 to retain, sports are better at that than basically any other kind of programming. 00:19:22.162 --> 00:19:25.142 So you have those two things. They're scarce, so they can command high 00:19:25.142 --> 00:19:28.442 prices and they're pretty surefire so 00:19:28.442 --> 00:19:32.002 between those two elements you have this commodity that 00:19:32.002 --> 00:19:34.982 people are clawing over yeah it is 00:19:34.982 --> 00:19:37.762 the type of thing that people who have been trying to put off 00:19:37.762 --> 00:19:40.542 buying a streaming service will go oh damn it 00:19:40.542 --> 00:19:43.242 i have to buy the streaming service now again i go back to the 00:19:43.242 --> 00:19:45.962 peacock nfl playoff example there was a whole load of 00:19:45.962 --> 00:19:48.842 griping before that game and then suddenly a 00:19:48.842 --> 00:19:52.382 load of people signed up to peacock and a bunch of them have stayed um even 00:19:52.382 --> 00:19:55.442 netflix is but stop pretending it's not interested now 00:19:55.442 --> 00:19:58.602 that's right NFL games coming 00:19:58.602 --> 00:20:01.962 to Netflix it's crazy what a world what a 00:20:01.962 --> 00:20:04.762 world you get WWE and the 00:20:04.762 --> 00:20:07.582 NFL on your Netflix what else do 00:20:07.582 --> 00:20:10.542 you want I was just reading something that was so interesting 00:20:10.542 --> 00:20:13.562 to me I mean you were just saying you're going to a baseball game 00:20:13.562 --> 00:20:16.482 uh in the UK which I 00:20:16.482 --> 00:20:20.542 didn't know that was a thing that we're doing the the internationalization of 00:20:20.542 --> 00:20:23.942 some of these sports is being uh really 00:20:23.942 --> 00:20:26.922 expedited by the streaming services 00:20:26.922 --> 00:20:30.002 and the nba has been really great at 00:20:30.002 --> 00:20:33.322 trying to move more into europe move more into south america etc but i think 00:20:33.322 --> 00:20:37.482 in the last two years you've seen the nfl really start to make some big strides 00:20:37.482 --> 00:20:41.842 in that direction as well i think they have three games in london yeah in london 00:20:41.842 --> 00:20:48.002 stadium one at wembley they've got one i think in rio this year oh really i know No, 00:20:48.002 --> 00:20:50.902 there's always games in Germany as well. 00:20:51.662 --> 00:20:55.442 So, and that was, I mean, this is no secret, that is the appeal of a Netflix, 00:20:55.502 --> 00:21:00.842 is that all of a sudden you can be reaching their 200 million plus audience 00:21:00.842 --> 00:21:02.222 across the entire globe. 00:21:02.602 --> 00:21:08.442 And I think that if some of these limited forays into putting sports on streaming 00:21:08.442 --> 00:21:12.442 services are successful, and they have been so far, we're going to see a lot 00:21:12.442 --> 00:21:14.042 more of that in the next few years. 00:21:14.362 --> 00:21:18.042 Was that one of the big talks of what was going on when you were at the App, 00:21:18.062 --> 00:21:22.542 Francis, talk about the value of live sport. Were people still very keen on that? 00:21:23.465 --> 00:21:27.465 Very much so. I mean, there was I mean, and like we were talking about the New 00:21:27.465 --> 00:21:31.345 York Knicks, like the Warner Brothers Discovery presentation was in Madison 00:21:31.345 --> 00:21:36.525 Square Garden the night before the Knicks had played in that stadium and beat 00:21:36.525 --> 00:21:38.185 the team, the Pacers that they were playing. 00:21:38.305 --> 00:21:43.065 And so there was just there's a sports buzz in the city during the week that 00:21:43.065 --> 00:21:47.865 was compounded by the fact that everybody is trying to get their hands on these sports rights. 00:21:47.885 --> 00:21:52.245 You have the NBA saga that's unfolding in real time in front of everybody. 00:21:52.245 --> 00:21:54.245 So it was a major point of conversation. 00:21:54.885 --> 00:22:00.265 And I think, you know, I was rubbing shoulders a lot with sports reporters and 00:22:00.265 --> 00:22:06.245 sports media reporters, which is becoming a really it's expanding as a beat. 00:22:06.985 --> 00:22:10.725 Well, you see John Aranda at Puck, for example. Exactly. 00:22:10.825 --> 00:22:14.545 When we had Adweek, we had a really great reporter who actually left to go fill 00:22:14.545 --> 00:22:18.765 John's position at SBJ. and I was talking with some other sports media reporters. 00:22:18.925 --> 00:22:21.245 It's just another one of those spaces, kind of like entertainment. 00:22:22.545 --> 00:22:27.105 Where it's sort of a consumer-oriented... I mean, now we're getting into inside 00:22:27.105 --> 00:22:29.465 baseball a little bit here, but... Perfect, that's what this show's for. 00:22:30.265 --> 00:22:35.405 That whole beat has just become so much more critical because it's like, 00:22:35.465 --> 00:22:39.245 if you're just an average sports consumer and you just like the Cowboys or you 00:22:39.245 --> 00:22:42.305 like the Pacers or whatever the case is... Sorry, sorry, sorry. 00:22:42.545 --> 00:22:45.245 Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark. mark i may be on 00:22:45.245 --> 00:22:48.085 the other side of the Atlantic to you but i know for a fact 00:22:48.085 --> 00:22:54.745 nobody likes the cowboys in Texas a lot of people like the cowboys no no but 00:22:54.745 --> 00:22:59.705 i grant you uh beyond that it's uh less favorable but you you have to have a 00:22:59.705 --> 00:23:03.225 familiarity with the streaming ecosystem nowadays to be able to watch the sporting 00:23:03.225 --> 00:23:06.545 games that you want to watch so what has gone from like a b2b. 00:23:07.525 --> 00:23:11.465 Niche has become of interest to consumers i think you can say the same thing 00:23:11.465 --> 00:23:12.625 with sports media more broadly. 00:23:12.845 --> 00:23:16.885 I never, the normal, a normal person never would have cared about who, 00:23:16.965 --> 00:23:20.725 what company, what holding company owns what streamer and what rights and blah, blah, blah. 00:23:20.805 --> 00:23:23.405 But now you kind of have to be plugged into that if you want to watch the game. 00:23:23.505 --> 00:23:25.805 So yeah, sport is media and media is sport. 00:23:25.945 --> 00:23:31.005 I think that's, it's always been the case, but now it's, it's really undeniable. 00:23:31.185 --> 00:23:34.105 What were the other themes then that you, you came away with? 00:23:34.125 --> 00:23:39.085 You obviously got these big talk, you know, know the tech incursion into media 00:23:39.085 --> 00:23:45.425 you've got as we've just been discussing sport we've got you know ad buyers 00:23:45.425 --> 00:23:49.345 from what i can tell really trying to play a bit hardball now going, 00:23:50.105 --> 00:23:53.045 you need us more than we need you is that a fair impression. 00:23:55.153 --> 00:23:59.973 I think so wait the last part you're saying ad buyers are saying to streamers yeah you need us, 00:24:00.753 --> 00:24:05.833 streamers and the linear channels frankly yeah absolutely i think that's been 00:24:05.833 --> 00:24:08.773 one of the most i was talking about this with a friend the other day one of 00:24:08.773 --> 00:24:10.993 the most like fundamental macro dynamic, 00:24:11.553 --> 00:24:14.813 shifts that's occurred in the last 20 years with the 00:24:14.813 --> 00:24:18.093 advent of the internet is just going from the publishers 00:24:18.093 --> 00:24:21.213 being in the position of power because they owned 00:24:21.213 --> 00:24:24.473 the scarce resource to now the the advertisers being 00:24:24.473 --> 00:24:28.453 in a position of power because ad inventory is infinite 00:24:28.453 --> 00:24:31.293 and so they get to decide where their 00:24:31.293 --> 00:24:34.133 dollar goes and so the publishers whether it's 00:24:34.133 --> 00:24:37.053 television or digital news or whatever the case they're the ones who have to 00:24:37.053 --> 00:24:42.073 kind of make the case to advertisers now that their content and that their audience 00:24:42.073 --> 00:24:49.093 and increasingly that their ad tech capabilities are up to snuff and maybe even 00:24:49.093 --> 00:24:52.353 you know superior to their competitors to draw on some of that 00:24:52.373 --> 00:24:55.753 business so i would say uh another element if you're 00:24:55.753 --> 00:24:58.553 really trying to get into the weeds a little bit of this last 00:24:58.553 --> 00:25:01.453 week that was really interesting is just the uh ad targeting 00:25:01.453 --> 00:25:04.313 capabilities and the ad tech stacks of these streamers 00:25:04.313 --> 00:25:08.953 netflix made some news by saying that they are planning to part ways uh with 00:25:08.953 --> 00:25:13.413 microsoft with whom they'd partnered yes initially to to get their advertising 00:25:13.413 --> 00:25:18.913 huge thing because when the ad tier launched they were like look how great it 00:25:18.913 --> 00:25:23.973 is we're working with Microsoft and it was a big deal for Microsoft to get that deal done. 00:25:25.014 --> 00:25:29.974 As I recall, and now they're parting ways fairly quickly. I was surprised at 00:25:29.974 --> 00:25:31.814 how quickly that came about, if I'm honest with you. 00:25:32.834 --> 00:25:38.054 Yeah, and we actually, I mean, I think he was just kind of blustering a little 00:25:38.054 --> 00:25:40.914 bit, but I was speaking with Ted Sarandos at the Netflix event, 00:25:41.034 --> 00:25:44.154 and he was saying to sort of a small group of reporters. Get that name off the floor, Mark Stenberg. 00:25:45.154 --> 00:25:50.114 He was saying that they were doing this more quickly than they'd expected. 00:25:50.494 --> 00:25:53.434 And, you know, I just think executives love to say like, Like, 00:25:53.494 --> 00:25:57.614 oh, we're actually moving much more quickly than projections would have anticipated. 00:25:57.734 --> 00:26:01.694 But there might be a kernel of truth to it. I think that the ad tier and the 00:26:01.694 --> 00:26:05.534 demand for advertising has ramped up to a degree such that Netflix is like, 00:26:05.614 --> 00:26:09.834 OK, we want to get in the driver's seat now. Like, thanks for teaching us the ropes. 00:26:10.634 --> 00:26:14.714 So that's a big, a big sort of area to watch. 00:26:15.834 --> 00:26:19.694 Additionally, when you're at these upfronts, there's a lot of discussion about 00:26:19.694 --> 00:26:21.114 like the CTV space more broadly. 00:26:21.474 --> 00:26:24.954 How can you do advertising differently? Like what kind of ads does it unlock? 00:26:25.094 --> 00:26:26.354 What kind of tracking does it unlock? 00:26:26.554 --> 00:26:30.434 I think there's conversations about stoppable ads. There's conversations about 00:26:30.434 --> 00:26:34.934 Warner Brothers made a big deal about when theatricals debut on streaming, 00:26:35.014 --> 00:26:38.134 like when Barbie came to Max or when Dune 2 comes to Max, 00:26:38.394 --> 00:26:44.874 they're going to sell those moments as massive marketing opportunities. 00:26:45.874 --> 00:26:49.034 And they're going to kind of position them almost in the same way when a movie 00:26:49.034 --> 00:26:53.474 comes to theaters, almost with the same sort of fanfare as when it comes to a streaming service. 00:26:54.374 --> 00:26:57.614 But no one wants an ad in the middle of a movie, do they? 00:26:58.502 --> 00:27:01.402 Correct. I mean, and that's another thing that was really interesting. 00:27:01.562 --> 00:27:04.202 Even again, at this, I was having conversations with people at Netflix. 00:27:04.702 --> 00:27:09.702 They're still having the challenge of like, how do you naturally insert ads 00:27:09.702 --> 00:27:12.622 into television programs that don't have ad breaks? 00:27:12.962 --> 00:27:15.222 You know what I mean? And like, I don't know if you're like me, 00:27:15.262 --> 00:27:17.642 but I pay for Netflix, so I don't have the ads. 00:27:17.782 --> 00:27:22.022 So I haven't actually witnessed this. But apparently, if you are on the Netflix 00:27:22.022 --> 00:27:27.642 ads here, you'll just be watching a, you know, a back and forth of dialogue and an ad starts. 00:27:27.642 --> 00:27:30.742 You know what i mean so they're trying to make it more natural but there's no 00:27:30.742 --> 00:27:34.222 ad breaks and so there's like a lot of little things like that that are really 00:27:34.222 --> 00:27:39.562 fascinating uh that i think this is a real i'd never thought of that because 00:27:39.562 --> 00:27:43.342 when you're watching shows that are originally on linear tv and then you stream 00:27:43.342 --> 00:27:46.562 them it's always very obvious where the ad break was meant to be. 00:27:47.222 --> 00:27:49.942 And it's actually this is a bit and it you know in 00:27:49.942 --> 00:27:52.662 england we have less ad breaks than the u.s shows 00:27:52.662 --> 00:27:55.382 so like in a half an hour 00:27:55.382 --> 00:27:58.062 episode of friends you can always see where like an extra ad 00:27:58.062 --> 00:28:00.822 break would have been and stuff whatever but yeah that's a 00:28:00.822 --> 00:28:03.682 really interesting thought actually that hadn't occurred to me that actually these shows 00:28:03.682 --> 00:28:06.522 are not written to have natural ad breaks in them so where how do 00:28:06.522 --> 00:28:10.362 you insert an ad particularly programmatically a final 00:28:10.362 --> 00:28:13.502 thing i want to talk about is i want to go back to this idea of youtube because 00:28:13.502 --> 00:28:19.962 youtube um it really kind of encompasses is basically everything we've discussed 00:28:19.962 --> 00:28:26.402 on the show because it had creators turn up at their brand cast event and the 00:28:26.402 --> 00:28:29.942 CEO saying creators should be able to win an Emmy. 00:28:30.642 --> 00:28:33.422 Which is a proper incursion onto traditional TV. 00:28:33.582 --> 00:28:39.462 We had them announcing a deal for the WNBA, which I think is another win for Caitlin Clarke. 00:28:40.882 --> 00:28:46.582 So you and I were saying off air how big a part of all of this women's sport 00:28:46.582 --> 00:28:47.522 is now becoming. coming. 00:28:48.042 --> 00:28:53.462 So to me, that presentation seemed to typify a lot of what was going on in that whole week. 00:28:55.000 --> 00:29:01.240 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, YouTube is remains this hybrid product that has no 00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:04.980 direct analogous competitor. 00:29:05.480 --> 00:29:09.660 And the fact that they're out here saying, you know, I mean, 00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:14.800 it's sometimes it bears repeating that like YouTube is user generated content 00:29:14.800 --> 00:29:21.480 outside of a few panels and they're increasingly trying to, you know, 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:24.220 cultivate a little bit more of a premium video experience. 00:29:24.220 --> 00:29:26.900 And that means you might have to change the cost structure. 00:29:27.020 --> 00:29:30.600 And anyway, but the idea that they can say, 00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:37.020 you know, so and so in their living room, filming a video essay is as deserving 00:29:37.020 --> 00:29:41.360 of a potential, you know, award nomination as like a television show. 00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:42.980 So it's a bold statement. 00:29:43.100 --> 00:29:48.640 I think it's a direction or it's an indication of the direction that these spaces are headed in. 00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:54.820 But I think you look at these other channels that like all these streaming services 00:29:54.820 --> 00:29:59.180 that started with subscription only and have now bolted on ads. 00:29:59.780 --> 00:30:06.120 I wonder if in any world you see YouTube really start to do the inverse of that. 00:30:06.120 --> 00:30:09.660 I know they have a YouTube subscription package, but to what degree are they 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:12.320 going to try and really start hammering that home? 00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:16.800 Because everybody else is seeing the economic logic of subscription plus ads, 00:30:16.980 --> 00:30:20.400 whereas a lot of YouTube views, of course, they're not paying for the content. 00:30:20.500 --> 00:30:22.060 So their cost model is different. 00:30:22.340 --> 00:30:25.300 But would they rather have everyone paying for a subscription and have an ad 00:30:25.300 --> 00:30:29.600 on top of that? You know, they've got to keep the creators happy. 00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:35.600 They do. They do. And I think that's harder to do if you're taking a subscription. 00:30:36.040 --> 00:30:39.260 How do you pay that back into the creator economy? 00:30:40.360 --> 00:30:47.780 It's true. Yeah, YouTube is a real dark horse. I feel like sometimes I'm a little skeptical. 00:30:47.840 --> 00:30:56.880 There are a lot of claims that it's sort of the unsung dominant player in the 00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:01.680 streaming ecosystem because of how many people it attracts and whatever the case is. 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:06.760 I don't know. I mean, I think there's a lot of generational split. 00:31:06.820 --> 00:31:10.520 I don't know of a lot of people over 40 watching YouTube on their television. 00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:12.980 I mean, maybe I'm making that up, right? This is all anecdotal. 00:31:12.980 --> 00:31:17.860 I don't have the numbers to hand, but I would be amazed if you're wrong about that. 00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:26.960 Yeah. But I think it also bears repeating how much for a whole bunch of people YouTube is TV, right? 00:31:27.661 --> 00:31:31.221 Mm-hmm I think both things yeah is it 00:31:31.221 --> 00:31:34.001 tv for you no not particularly I 00:31:34.001 --> 00:31:37.161 mean there are some channels and some creators that I love 00:31:37.161 --> 00:31:44.321 watching and I only tend to watch longer youtube videos on tv so there is that 00:31:44.321 --> 00:31:48.781 and I but it's not my first port of call when I want to sit down and watch something 00:31:48.781 --> 00:31:52.881 but there are a lot there are things that I really do only like to watch on 00:31:52.921 --> 00:31:55.021 the YouTube app, on TV. That's certainly true. 00:31:55.561 --> 00:32:00.001 Well, it's been fascinating. What was your kind of gossipy takeaways from this? 00:32:00.061 --> 00:32:01.821 How did you come away from the week feeling? 00:32:01.981 --> 00:32:04.761 Were you feeling optimistic about the industry you report on? 00:32:04.901 --> 00:32:09.241 Were you feeling that everyone was sort of just trying to have managed decline? 00:32:09.621 --> 00:32:11.721 How are you feeling about it all when you left? 00:32:12.261 --> 00:32:15.741 Yeah, so I'm a generally optimistic person. 00:32:15.801 --> 00:32:18.821 And these were star-studded marketing 00:32:18.821 --> 00:32:22.041 presentations meant to inspire confidence so i 00:32:22.041 --> 00:32:24.821 came away from it maybe drinking the kool-aid a 00:32:24.821 --> 00:32:27.701 little bit and if i were to like make the pitch for the kool-aid 00:32:27.701 --> 00:32:30.901 it would basically go this the world of 00:32:30.901 --> 00:32:35.981 television has like a lot of the world just had one weird year after another 00:32:35.981 --> 00:32:40.381 right and i think there's a lot of sense of last year was the writer's strike 00:32:40.381 --> 00:32:45.081 the year before that was covid the year before that was covid etc etc this was 00:32:45.081 --> 00:32:48.961 kind of the first year where like the all the companies got to put put on proper 00:32:48.961 --> 00:32:50.881 presentations with talent. 00:32:51.221 --> 00:32:54.081 Their production pipelines were up and running. 00:32:55.141 --> 00:32:58.381 There was a sense of like with Warner Brothers Discovery, they merged in 2022. 00:32:59.661 --> 00:33:02.401 2023 was a writer's strike. This is the first year that they really get to. 00:33:02.481 --> 00:33:05.121 So there's a lot of sense of like, this is a sort of, 00:33:05.912 --> 00:33:09.312 almost coming out for these linear channels 00:33:09.312 --> 00:33:12.232 as competitive to streamers and 00:33:12.232 --> 00:33:15.512 there's on the opposite side of the fence streamers coming 00:33:15.512 --> 00:33:18.452 out with ad tiers or whatever and saying we're competitive to 00:33:18.452 --> 00:33:21.252 linear channels so this felt like you could look at the industry 00:33:21.252 --> 00:33:24.852 and and do a fair bit of sky is falling prognostication 00:33:24.852 --> 00:33:32.472 but i think that for me you're starting to see the tectonic plates sort of firm 00:33:32.472 --> 00:33:38.452 and you see who the players are the smaller ones are being subsumed or bundling 00:33:38.452 --> 00:33:44.572 up or dying out and i think for the most part i'm hoping that the next year. 00:33:45.932 --> 00:33:51.992 Sees wins pick up in the sales of all of these companies and i wouldn't be surprised 00:33:51.992 --> 00:33:56.152 if if that uh if we're in an even stronger place next year than we are this 00:33:56.152 --> 00:34:00.192 year well i look forward to that I look forward to your continued optimism. 00:34:00.492 --> 00:34:03.872 I always enjoy having you on the show. Where can people keep up with you? 00:34:04.752 --> 00:34:12.792 You can follow my work at Adweek and you can also find me on LinkedIn and Twitter at Mark Stenberg. 00:34:13.612 --> 00:34:17.132 Great. I'm at Charlotte A. Henry across social media. 00:34:17.952 --> 00:34:21.472 Obviously, I would love you to head over to theedition.net. You can check out 00:34:21.472 --> 00:34:25.712 all the blogging there and of course, sign up to the paid newsletter, 00:34:25.892 --> 00:34:28.672 which makes a huge difference and helps keep the show on the road. 00:34:28.752 --> 00:34:33.752 You can do that directly at newsletter.theedition.net. 00:34:34.092 --> 00:34:37.052 Mark, thank you for coming on once again, and I'll see you all next week. 00:34:37.680 --> 00:34:46.595 Music.