WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:11.760 Music. 00:00:12.566 --> 00:00:17.486 Hello, welcome to TV Plus Talk. I'm Charlotte Henry, and he is Chuck Joyner. Hello. 00:00:18.866 --> 00:00:23.006 I am, Charlotte. Good to see you, as always. Glad we're sort of getting back 00:00:23.006 --> 00:00:24.506 on schedule with TV Plus Talk. 00:00:24.746 --> 00:00:28.226 Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm glad as well, because there's a lot to talk about, 00:00:28.286 --> 00:00:31.446 lots of stuff to watch, lots of things to talk about. 00:00:31.486 --> 00:00:36.706 There's a lot of discussion about Apple TV Plus at the moment and the subscription world in general. 00:00:36.706 --> 00:00:39.906 So yes let's get to it um you and 00:00:39.906 --> 00:00:42.626 i it's interesting people might not believe us but 00:00:42.626 --> 00:00:45.706 we do actually plan this show and when we were doing it 00:00:45.706 --> 00:00:51.966 we uh we came both sort of sent each other articles very much relating to the 00:00:51.966 --> 00:01:01.226 same topic and we seem to sort of be in a quote-unquote peak tv peak streaming 00:01:01.226 --> 00:01:05.386 space now we've been having these conversations for a while if we're honest haven't we, Chuck? 00:01:07.406 --> 00:01:10.786 But there's some real data that is showing... 00:01:12.219 --> 00:01:16.959 Putting some substance behind the stories, right? I wrote about it for my newsletter 00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:21.119 the week before you're seeing this. I called it Streaming Fatigue is Real. 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:28.099 And that was based on some data generated by CableTV.com, written up by Olivia Bono. 00:01:28.199 --> 00:01:34.239 News then sent me a New York Times story by John Coblin, which sort of builds 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:36.899 on the same thing and some data from Antenna. 00:01:37.019 --> 00:01:40.939 He was mostly focused on sort of people changing their subscription and bouncing 00:01:40.939 --> 00:01:42.859 around their subscription services right. 00:01:43.999 --> 00:01:48.299 So we'll start, if you don't mind, with the CableTV.com story because it has 00:01:48.299 --> 00:01:50.479 a very distinct Apple TV Plus angle. 00:01:51.119 --> 00:01:57.539 And that is that the 1,000 Americans that they conducted in this poll, 00:01:57.599 --> 00:02:00.539 which seemed to be, you know, it's a small sample size, but they seemed to weight 00:02:00.539 --> 00:02:02.459 it and do stuff properly. 00:02:03.639 --> 00:02:08.359 Apple TV Plus was the service that Americans have the highest negative opinion 00:02:08.359 --> 00:02:13.119 of. It was at 47% negative opinion for Apple TV Plus talk. 00:02:13.539 --> 00:02:17.299 And we should say that Netflix, and this will be another theme we return to, 00:02:17.339 --> 00:02:19.959 Netflix was the most positively received. 00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:24.199 Only 22% had a negative opinion of it. 00:02:24.999 --> 00:02:29.819 And as I was thinking of this, I was thinking, I know what Chuck's answer is going to be. 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:34.999 He's going to say it all depends on what you're interested in and what shows you want to watch. 00:02:35.619 --> 00:02:40.699 But if I was the people behind TV+, I'd be a little bit despondent at seeing 00:02:40.699 --> 00:02:42.519 these kind of numbers at this kind of publication. 00:02:46.299 --> 00:02:50.499 You're right to some degree. You had my response. You're locked in. 00:02:51.219 --> 00:02:53.119 It's almost like we know each other well. 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:59.479 Yeah, really. Really. But I also think part of it is that Apple TV Plus is not 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:04.259 publicizing their content, both the new content and the legacy content, 00:03:04.379 --> 00:03:06.339 as well as some of the others. 00:03:06.559 --> 00:03:09.679 I mean, how many times are you and I going to have to say, why don't they promote 00:03:09.679 --> 00:03:11.299 this stuff? Why are they so bad at PR? 00:03:12.813 --> 00:03:19.673 Yeah, that to me is, I think, you know, I'm not sure that there's a negative impression. 00:03:19.913 --> 00:03:25.293 I think there's just almost an out-of-sight, out-of-mind lack of impression. 00:03:26.473 --> 00:03:30.193 I know you're big into sports. I know there have been some really terrific sports 00:03:30.193 --> 00:03:38.853 documentaries on there that I've either heard about only through you or by sheer accident. Yeah. 00:03:39.973 --> 00:03:45.173 So, you know, I say, wow, you know, this, you're going for the big blockbusters, 00:03:45.273 --> 00:03:48.253 but those are the kind of things that are going to pull people in. 00:03:48.593 --> 00:03:53.053 I mean, there was one, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure there was 00:03:53.053 --> 00:03:56.053 a Steph Curry documentary. 00:03:56.713 --> 00:03:59.493 And, you know, I would have thought people would have eaten that up if they 00:03:59.493 --> 00:04:03.733 knew about it. Yeah, they tried to do their version of like the last dance type of thing. 00:04:04.993 --> 00:04:09.013 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I think that's where the criticism is. 00:04:09.113 --> 00:04:15.573 I find it hard to believe that it is in the content when I see Apple TV Plus 00:04:15.573 --> 00:04:20.793 shows showing up constantly in the streamer's top ten every week. 00:04:21.253 --> 00:04:23.493 There's a couple of really interesting points there. So first of all, 00:04:23.553 --> 00:04:25.673 it's called Stephen Curry Underrated. 00:04:26.693 --> 00:04:28.593 Thank you. It's the show you were thinking of. 00:04:30.113 --> 00:04:35.313 You're right, I think, that some people like Apple TV Plus shows when they do eventually find them. 00:04:35.913 --> 00:04:40.413 I think that's a very reasonable point. I think when I hear about people talking 00:04:40.413 --> 00:04:45.473 about a negative opinion of TV+, what it makes me think of is that people turn 00:04:45.473 --> 00:04:48.553 it on and just don't think there is enough stuff there. That, 00:04:48.593 --> 00:04:49.853 to me, is what we're talking about. 00:04:52.373 --> 00:04:57.453 Yeah, and this feels like you're about to – I don't want to segue too early into the other piece. 00:04:57.793 --> 00:05:00.473 No, let's stick to it, but yes. 00:05:01.013 --> 00:05:10.593 Yeah, but that said, I feel like if you just – people are spending more money 00:05:10.593 --> 00:05:13.433 on services that maybe they don't watch all the time. 00:05:13.433 --> 00:05:18.153 And so, you know, unless you're intentional about Apple TV and keeping up with 00:05:18.153 --> 00:05:22.893 what's there, you may have that perception that, well, there's really not anything there for me. 00:05:23.253 --> 00:05:28.173 And yet, when I look at my to-watch list, I've probably got at least as many, 00:05:28.193 --> 00:05:35.233 if not more, Apple TV Plus shows on that list than any other single service. Yeah. 00:05:36.233 --> 00:05:39.593 It just strikes me that people are thinking, well, there's not that much. 00:05:39.593 --> 00:05:43.413 And it seems pretty clear to me, and I don't want to be too trite about this, 00:05:43.493 --> 00:05:48.513 but it seems clear to me that Apple cannot dine out on Ted Lasso anymore. 00:05:49.573 --> 00:05:54.173 People still think of it, in my opinion, and I know you and I are not like this, 00:05:54.233 --> 00:05:58.533 but I think people still think of it as the Ted Lasso place and Ted Lasso's finished. 00:05:59.913 --> 00:06:05.793 I just think it came at a time where people were like, this is one service too many for me. 00:06:05.893 --> 00:06:10.033 I'm done now. Now, it's just, I think there's a lot of things going into this. 00:06:10.773 --> 00:06:14.053 I mean, I completely agree with you that if people spent time with TV+, 00:06:14.053 --> 00:06:15.533 they would find stuff they like on there. 00:06:15.653 --> 00:06:18.653 As you and I have said before, there's great sci-fi. Apple seems to have made 00:06:18.653 --> 00:06:21.673 a really good space for itself in the sci-fi space. 00:06:22.973 --> 00:06:26.233 Sports documentaries, you're right. Not quite enough comedies for me, 00:06:26.273 --> 00:06:28.153 but the comedies that have been on there have been very good. 00:06:29.653 --> 00:06:32.673 I always talk about Shrinking and Mythic Quest, both of which I love. 00:06:32.673 --> 00:06:38.933 And while we're talking about this, I'm very excited that I saw Rob McElhenney, 00:06:39.013 --> 00:06:43.353 I'm sure I've said that wrong, talking about season four of Mythic Quest being shot. 00:06:44.293 --> 00:06:47.553 So we might see that before not too long, which I'm very excited about. 00:06:49.393 --> 00:06:53.913 Yeah, it's just interesting. And in this CableTV.com article, 00:06:54.433 --> 00:07:00.953 the author, Olivia Bono, points out that there's cancellations on all services, 00:07:01.153 --> 00:07:05.633 which is generally paying into perception of negativity and frustration amongst consumers. 00:07:06.073 --> 00:07:10.273 And one of the shows she cites was Schmickadoon being cancelled, 00:07:10.393 --> 00:07:14.733 which was that kind of musical comedy that was pretty popular, 00:07:14.773 --> 00:07:16.573 I think. People who found it liked it. 00:07:16.633 --> 00:07:23.553 Our mutual friend, Kelly Gamon, was a big fan, I believe. and you know when 00:07:23.553 --> 00:07:27.793 shows like that go it gives other people another excuse to cancel doesn't it? 00:07:29.455 --> 00:07:34.395 It does, Charlotte. And, you know, there are a million reasons shows get canceled. 00:07:34.495 --> 00:07:36.035 I'm not making any excuses. 00:07:36.295 --> 00:07:40.935 Sure. Because I've had shows on all the streaming services that I was really 00:07:40.935 --> 00:07:43.615 into. And it's like, you mean you're canceling this? 00:07:44.215 --> 00:07:49.055 My show? Even when the series? Well, yeah. And even when you didn't have, 00:07:49.075 --> 00:07:51.895 like, a logical ending point, you're just pulling the plug right out of the 00:07:51.895 --> 00:07:55.375 wall, I get a bit frustrated with that. 00:07:55.375 --> 00:07:58.555 But on the other hand everybody does 00:07:58.555 --> 00:08:02.515 it somewhere there are executives making decisions that 00:08:02.515 --> 00:08:06.475 this is not worth the investment so i 00:08:06.475 --> 00:08:10.775 don't know i'm not a tv executive i don't know how you measure that and where 00:08:10.775 --> 00:08:16.935 the breaking point is but boy sometimes it just seems stupid yeah so so some 00:08:16.935 --> 00:08:21.995 of the ones that shows that is can't uh cited in this are greece rise of the 00:08:21.995 --> 00:08:23.295 pink ladies on on Paramount Plus, 00:08:23.555 --> 00:08:29.275 Our Flag Means Death on Max, and Willow on Disney Plus as well. 00:08:29.555 --> 00:08:32.575 So, again, shows where, like, people were going to like them. 00:08:33.215 --> 00:08:40.675 Just to take a step back from TV Plus for a moment, 36% of respondents said 00:08:40.675 --> 00:08:42.795 streaming services are becoming less worth it. 00:08:43.235 --> 00:08:47.695 30% think less of streaming services because of password sharing crackdowns. 00:08:47.975 --> 00:08:53.155 34% say streaming services aren't worth it anymore, more and 15% have a negative 00:08:53.155 --> 00:08:54.595 opinion of streaming services. 00:08:55.515 --> 00:08:58.315 I just discussed all this, by the way, on the Daily Tech News show. 00:08:58.415 --> 00:09:03.055 So I had a conversation there with Nico Montford and Sarah Lane about all this. 00:09:03.055 --> 00:09:06.275 So you can dive back into that if you want to look at the kind of broad stroke story. 00:09:07.055 --> 00:09:10.315 But there is an Apple TV Plus story here, isn't there? 00:09:11.115 --> 00:09:14.315 What do you think they would have to do then? I guess this is the question. 00:09:14.395 --> 00:09:17.915 And if we answer it, by the way, we're going to make a fortune. So think carefully. 00:09:18.715 --> 00:09:19.995 We're going to be really rich. 00:09:21.995 --> 00:09:26.735 What could Apple TV Plus do, do you think, to shift that negative opinion? 00:09:27.255 --> 00:09:30.515 Your points about marketing are well made, but what else do we think? 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:39.739 Beyond marketing, I'm not sure, except maybe a focused target marketing that 00:09:39.739 --> 00:09:41.259 if you produce a sci-fi show, 00:09:41.419 --> 00:09:48.539 that you really push it through sci-fi communication channels, not the sci-fi channel. 00:09:48.539 --> 00:09:55.539 That, you know, if you're doing sports, you know, the Steph Curry documentary, 00:09:56.039 --> 00:10:00.379 that you take that and promote that much more through the basketball channels. 00:10:00.939 --> 00:10:06.459 Now, I don't know if that means banner ads or, you know, interviews or what. 00:10:06.579 --> 00:10:13.539 But think about the way that the networks and a lot of more mainstream things market. 00:10:13.539 --> 00:10:16.419 Market and my perception and i am not 00:10:16.419 --> 00:10:19.539 a big tv watcher of in this style but 00:10:19.539 --> 00:10:22.279 my perception is that a lot of 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.999 times the stars show up on the late night shows here in the u.s on the early 00:10:26.999 --> 00:10:30.899 morning shows in the u.s to talk about oh i've got this great new series i've 00:10:30.899 --> 00:10:35.079 got this great new thing i don't feel like i see that with the apple tv plus 00:10:35.079 --> 00:10:40.239 stories or shows excuse me so not many now Now you mention it. 00:10:40.799 --> 00:10:47.239 Yeah. So is that a missed opportunity? But, you know, when you were talking 00:10:47.239 --> 00:10:50.259 earlier, I thought about one other thing, and we've constantly talked about 00:10:50.259 --> 00:10:51.899 the quality part of Apple TV+. 00:10:52.659 --> 00:11:01.299 Think about Apple TV, excuse me. Think about Apple's computer hardware product mix. 00:11:01.779 --> 00:11:06.559 They don't try to hit every single category. They try to pick categories and 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:13.499 develop quality products in those categories and then work them. 00:11:13.839 --> 00:11:18.859 And I'm not sure that that approach may not be spilling over to Apple TV+, 00:11:18.859 --> 00:11:25.299 and I'm not sure it's as effective with the competition landscape with the lack of…. 00:11:26.858 --> 00:11:31.278 Loyalty, the Apple fan-based loyalty. 00:11:32.338 --> 00:11:36.498 They just may need to shift a little bit, but it's just get the word out that 00:11:36.498 --> 00:11:38.518 these are some great shows that are worth watching. 00:11:38.978 --> 00:11:42.558 I mean, it's such an interesting point because you mentioned sports documentaries. 00:11:42.718 --> 00:11:46.458 So there's one that I started called The War for Football, Super League, The War for Football, 00:11:46.638 --> 00:11:51.578 which is a four-part documentary series about the death 00:11:51.578 --> 00:11:55.258 basically of the European Super League idea um 00:11:55.258 --> 00:11:59.178 it's really great like it's really interesting um but 00:11:59.178 --> 00:12:02.678 it's sort of disappeared in the back and beyond of 00:12:02.678 --> 00:12:06.638 apple tv plus i've talked to you before about out on 00:12:06.638 --> 00:12:09.938 tv the documentary there about lgbt people on television 00:12:09.938 --> 00:12:12.958 and the evolution of that i think 00:12:12.958 --> 00:12:17.518 it's another four-part series with some amazing people on it almost nobody knows 00:12:17.518 --> 00:12:24.198 about it and it's hidden in the the depths of tv plus um and i do think they 00:12:24.198 --> 00:12:27.778 have the i sort of don't want to as i say overwork the point but i do think 00:12:27.778 --> 00:12:30.878 they have a problem they're just seen as the ted lasso streaming service, 00:12:31.718 --> 00:12:37.458 i think ted lasso was almost too big a success for them yeah it it mixed blessing 00:12:37.458 --> 00:12:41.978 i mean it put it definitely put them on the map but it also you know you get 00:12:41.978 --> 00:12:44.138 that uh what do they call it with 00:12:44.298 --> 00:12:49.318 actors you know the they can't get can't get away from the character typecast 00:12:49.318 --> 00:12:53.898 thank you yes I want to mention another sports documentary, 00:12:54.198 --> 00:12:57.758 sort of sports documentary that I caught. And I thoroughly enjoyed. 00:12:58.138 --> 00:13:00.138 I don't know if you've seen it. It was the Boris Becker. 00:13:01.698 --> 00:13:07.758 Boom, boom, the world versus Boris Becker. An interesting character to have TV about. 00:13:08.038 --> 00:13:14.038 Yeah. And I had no idea about 90% of what happened with Boris. 00:13:14.218 --> 00:13:15.898 And I'm sure not going to spoil it here. 00:13:16.298 --> 00:13:19.258 But I thoroughly enjoyed it. and 00:13:19.258 --> 00:13:22.218 it's like why why did this not get more press 00:13:22.218 --> 00:13:25.078 why do you not yeah people not know about 00:13:25.078 --> 00:13:27.918 it your point really got 00:13:27.918 --> 00:13:30.758 me thinking when you said they're sort of giving the hardware version of 00:13:30.758 --> 00:13:33.758 apple the same treat they're giving to tv plus 00:13:33.758 --> 00:13:38.058 the same treatment as they give the hardware sort of just assuming people are 00:13:38.058 --> 00:13:40.718 going to come to it right oh we've got a new iphone obviously people are going 00:13:40.718 --> 00:13:48.398 to buy a new iphone we've got a new mac people want a new mac and they're they're 00:13:48.398 --> 00:13:51.458 the insurgents in this space, they kind of need to start acting like it, 00:13:52.058 --> 00:13:55.878 but I still go back to this fundamental quantity problem, 00:13:57.799 --> 00:14:00.979 And I think that must be playing into this negative perception. 00:14:01.119 --> 00:14:04.939 I think people turn it on and just don't find enough stuff. 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.339 And that might just be something as simple as the TV app isn't recommending them the right stuff. 00:14:11.819 --> 00:14:16.139 And I think, Charlotte, it's interesting because a couple of shows ago… Sorry 00:14:16.139 --> 00:14:19.959 to interrupt, but there is stuff there on TV+. Oh, yeah. 00:14:20.739 --> 00:14:24.179 We've long gone past the point where people say there's only three things on 00:14:24.179 --> 00:14:25.299 there. There is stuff there. 00:14:26.319 --> 00:14:33.899 But a few shows back, if I remember correctly, you pointed out that there are 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:36.779 things there that nobody knows about. 00:14:38.219 --> 00:14:43.799 But we have this weird split. You had stated, I think, that some of the most 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:47.439 watched shows on streaming, not just Apple TV+, but streaming. 00:14:48.739 --> 00:14:54.039 And pretty much all of them were reruns. You know, and reruns from not just 00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:58.479 years back, but a lot of years back, as opposed to, 00:14:58.619 --> 00:15:02.439 you know, so we have this weird schism of folks who are saying, 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.359 well, you're not giving me enough new stuff. You're not giving me enough new stuff. 00:15:06.719 --> 00:15:11.019 Yet, they're seeking out the comfort of, you know, those things that they remember 00:15:11.019 --> 00:15:15.459 well, or that I sometimes wonder if they just put these things on in the background. 00:15:15.579 --> 00:15:19.879 And I'm not going to slam anybody's series, but there's these some series that 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:20.959 just go on and on forever. 00:15:21.439 --> 00:15:25.479 They're the same plot every single week. I feel like people might put them on 00:15:25.479 --> 00:15:26.899 just as wallpaper in the background. 00:15:27.479 --> 00:15:30.479 Yeah, I'm sure there is a bit of that. I'm sure there is a bit of that. 00:15:30.479 --> 00:15:33.279 How many more times can you cycle through friends? 00:15:33.479 --> 00:15:39.399 I'm sure there is a lot of that going on. Yeah, so what is important? 00:15:39.599 --> 00:15:45.419 Is it the back catalogue for the comfort factor or is it the folks or the new content that. 00:15:46.861 --> 00:15:50.601 That allegedly people will be talking about, you know, tomorrow at the office 00:15:50.601 --> 00:15:53.241 or wherever you work or on your social media or whatever. 00:15:53.341 --> 00:15:57.241 I don't know what the answer is to serve both masters. 00:15:58.641 --> 00:16:02.941 Yeah, well, I think this brings us sort of nicely into the next thing we want to discuss. 00:16:03.181 --> 00:16:09.621 But as I say, in this survey, Netflix is the most popular. 00:16:09.721 --> 00:16:15.421 It's the service that percentage of Americans with negative opinions and smallest numbers, just 22%. 00:16:15.421 --> 00:16:21.301 22%. Interesting, Hulu was just behind it on 24%. Anyway, and then this article 00:16:21.301 --> 00:16:28.281 by John Coburn that you flagged up was also talking about Netflix. 00:16:28.561 --> 00:16:32.241 And basically, there is this idea in all the reading I do on this space, 00:16:32.441 --> 00:16:36.421 that Netflix is the one thing that people will just not get rid of. 00:16:36.621 --> 00:16:41.061 For whatever reason, they have Netflix plus other stuff. 00:16:42.581 --> 00:16:45.361 And I think some of that relates to the catalog point you've 00:16:45.361 --> 00:16:50.641 just said some of it is just our habit that whatever you know it's like when 00:16:50.641 --> 00:16:54.021 people used to have a newspaper delivered they had the newspaper they always 00:16:54.021 --> 00:17:01.601 got and then whatever and i feel like netflix is in that space of it's just 00:17:01.601 --> 00:17:03.701 the one thing people always keep. 00:17:05.381 --> 00:17:10.221 But i wonder as if the economy continues to tighten the global economy not just 00:17:10.221 --> 00:17:18.921 in the u.s I wonder how Netflix will fare, unless people are looking for that comfort thing. 00:17:20.241 --> 00:17:25.741 And I also think there's only so many times they can keep pushing up prices and all that stuff. 00:17:26.921 --> 00:17:34.341 But it is interesting that Netflix seems to hold this place that nowhere else can get to. 00:17:34.381 --> 00:17:38.701 Maybe Amazon Prime Video is close to it because you get Amazon Prime with Prime Video. 00:17:40.001 --> 00:17:43.381 It's one subscription to rule them all kind of thing. 00:17:44.181 --> 00:17:48.341 But in pure, pure, pure streaming play, it's Netflix that seems to be the sort 00:17:48.341 --> 00:17:52.461 of anchor for everyone, and Apple TV Plus is just not getting anywhere close, is it? 00:17:53.381 --> 00:17:57.261 Don't you think that there's a familiarity factor there since Netflix was sort 00:17:57.261 --> 00:17:58.621 of first in on the stream? 00:17:58.721 --> 00:18:02.741 Oh, I 100% think that's exactly what's going on. So I think people are comfortable 00:18:02.741 --> 00:18:05.901 with it, and it's like, yeah, there's always something I can find on here if 00:18:05.901 --> 00:18:07.601 I want something to watch. 00:18:09.101 --> 00:18:14.021 Totally. But your point about the price, you keep jacking it up and people are 00:18:14.021 --> 00:18:17.841 going to start looking other places and there are plenty of other places to look. 00:18:19.961 --> 00:18:25.061 I think it's absolutely first mover advantage for Netflix. I also think it's catalog advantage. 00:18:25.441 --> 00:18:32.241 I think it's the fact that Netflix, when we think of searching on the web, we say Google it. 00:18:32.441 --> 00:18:36.821 I think when people say, is it available on streaming? Lots of people say, is it on Netflix? 00:18:36.981 --> 00:18:39.921 What they mean is, can you stream it anywhere? anywhere but they're talking 00:18:39.921 --> 00:18:42.781 about netflix they use netflix as the sort of 00:18:42.781 --> 00:18:46.161 replacement word in that context great point 00:18:46.161 --> 00:18:51.841 great point i well god let's go back a little farther and show our well i'll 00:18:51.841 --> 00:18:56.661 show my age i won't share yours um but how many people thought that aol was 00:18:56.661 --> 00:19:01.381 the internet how many people now think facebook is the internet right you know 00:19:01.381 --> 00:19:05.461 so yeah there's there's that thing of I find something I'm comfortable with. 00:19:05.581 --> 00:19:09.941 It gives me maybe everything I think I want. 00:19:10.361 --> 00:19:12.321 And so I'm not going to look any farther. 00:19:13.281 --> 00:19:17.261 The really interesting point in this New York Times piece, it was reflected 00:19:17.261 --> 00:19:23.641 in the cable tv.com data as well, is that people are increasingly happy to mix and match. 00:19:23.821 --> 00:19:27.621 They don't just, unlike your cable bundler where you just keep it all month, 00:19:27.841 --> 00:19:31.841 people are happy to go, I've watched this on Peacock and now I'm cancelling Peacock. 00:19:31.841 --> 00:19:35.001 Um i've watched i finished slow 00:19:35.001 --> 00:19:38.381 horses on apple tv plus i'm canceling apple tv plus until the 00:19:38.381 --> 00:19:41.961 next morning show season comes out whatever um 00:19:41.961 --> 00:19:48.041 people seem to be much much more comfortable doing that sure i think they have 00:19:48.041 --> 00:19:54.881 to be given the prices if you if you start stacking up netflix or forget netflix 00:19:54.881 --> 00:19:59.801 just start stacking up three or four um services and look at the amount of money 00:19:59.801 --> 00:20:01.881 you're putting out for that each month, 00:20:02.301 --> 00:20:05.541 balance that against the number of hours of TV you're watching. 00:20:05.761 --> 00:20:10.121 And at some point, you're going to say, you know what, I think I don't need 00:20:10.121 --> 00:20:15.161 this for this month, or I think I'll just wait and binge that after I've finished binging this. 00:20:15.561 --> 00:20:21.241 And so it's sort of an automatic way to save money if you're not using that 00:20:21.241 --> 00:20:28.761 service or you can put off watching that particular service's offerings until your next little 00:20:28.881 --> 00:20:33.881 binge session uh yeah i think that's totally right and it's just interesting 00:20:33.881 --> 00:20:39.181 that people are comfortable now with the you know and companies have made it quite rightly. 00:20:40.569 --> 00:20:45.149 Easy enough to cancel these subscriptions, that people are comfortable enough bouncing around. 00:20:46.309 --> 00:20:50.109 And I wonder if in some ways it helps the company, because I think there is 00:20:50.109 --> 00:20:56.389 evidence that if you make a subscription easy to cancel, people are happier to take it out. 00:20:57.449 --> 00:21:01.709 By the way, I don't know if I've ever told you this. When I am world ruler, 00:21:01.709 --> 00:21:09.629 One of the first things I'm going to do is ban any company that allows you to 00:21:09.629 --> 00:21:12.229 buy a subscription online. 00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:14.749 You have to phone to cancel it. 00:21:15.669 --> 00:21:17.949 You have my vote for World Ruler. 00:21:19.129 --> 00:21:22.449 Thank you. Wonderful. Let's go. Yes, we have two now. 00:21:23.669 --> 00:21:31.029 Yes, exactly. Exactly. But sincerely, I think the ease in which you can cancel 00:21:31.029 --> 00:21:34.569 subscriptions is both, as you put earlier, a mixed blessing. 00:21:34.649 --> 00:21:39.889 I think it means people are happier and more comfortable taking out those subscriptions. 00:21:41.209 --> 00:21:44.769 But obviously, it means they feel more able to bounce around as well. 00:21:45.989 --> 00:21:50.149 You're probably going to hate this example. Perfect, go. 00:21:51.029 --> 00:21:56.589 But forget the pandemic for a minute. it. Let's go back to pre-pandemic. I've tried to. Yes. 00:21:57.049 --> 00:22:02.929 I think there was a group of people that they would go to the movies every weekend 00:22:02.929 --> 00:22:06.609 because it was just the thing to do. It didn't matter what was playing. 00:22:07.109 --> 00:22:10.589 They just wanted to see what was on. Yeah. And they'd go. And even if it was 00:22:10.589 --> 00:22:14.609 something they weren't really interested in, the pandemic, I think, 00:22:14.609 --> 00:22:17.909 has made people more selective about going back to the movie theater, 00:22:18.049 --> 00:22:22.409 even though there's really no reason to at this point, because there's no evidence 00:22:22.409 --> 00:22:25.289 that sitting in a movie theater is going to make you sick. 00:22:26.249 --> 00:22:31.329 But they're hesitant to go back. Yeah, or that it's more dangerous than anywhere 00:22:31.329 --> 00:22:32.569 else indoors or whatever. 00:22:32.729 --> 00:22:36.989 Yeah. And so, you know, but they got out of the habit and they became a little more selective. 00:22:37.109 --> 00:22:42.449 And they say, well, you know, maybe I'll just wait for Tom Cruise's next movie 00:22:42.449 --> 00:22:44.969 and not, you know, try some of these others. 00:22:44.969 --> 00:22:50.229 And I think there's evidence that we saw with that with some of the blockbuster 00:22:50.229 --> 00:22:55.509 Apple films that really – and Argyle is one I had said I wanted to bring up. 00:22:56.249 --> 00:23:00.569 Yeah, we'll talk about that in a minute. Yeah, Argyle was trashed at the theaters 00:23:00.569 --> 00:23:02.289 and people were like, no, who wants this? 00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:07.349 And yet it's leading on some of the streaming services now – or excuse me, 00:23:07.389 --> 00:23:10.689 on Apple TV Plus as something that is really worth watching. 00:23:11.029 --> 00:23:16.569 So how do you – there's a people. factor here, not just a programming factor 00:23:16.569 --> 00:23:18.569 that I think we're still wrestling with. 00:23:20.411 --> 00:23:24.431 Yeah, I mean, that's definitely true. I think habit is the key thing. 00:23:24.551 --> 00:23:28.311 And also people got to the point where they're like, actually, 00:23:28.391 --> 00:23:33.151 my local multiplex cinema is really not a very nice experience. 00:23:34.591 --> 00:23:37.511 The food and drink is expensive. The toilets are horrible. 00:23:37.871 --> 00:23:42.971 And someone next to me is on their phone throughout the movie and it's really ruining it for me. 00:23:43.231 --> 00:23:49.431 I can sit in my nice home on my big television and watch it anyway on a service I already pay for. 00:23:49.891 --> 00:23:55.591 And that clearly happened as well. And that brings up a really interesting point. 00:23:55.671 --> 00:24:02.371 Think of the price of 50, 60, 70, 80-inch TVs that have gone through the floor. 00:24:02.931 --> 00:24:08.031 So that you can put a theater size – no, maybe not. 00:24:08.091 --> 00:24:12.551 That's an exaggeration. But you can put, from the sofa to the screen, 00:24:12.731 --> 00:24:17.851 you can put something that rivals your theater and not have all those problems 00:24:17.851 --> 00:24:20.391 and not have to eat burned popcorn. 00:24:22.971 --> 00:24:26.291 And, you know, sound can be pretty decent. 00:24:26.331 --> 00:24:30.191 And, you know, most people are less fussy than I would suggest you and I are 00:24:30.191 --> 00:24:31.231 about those kind of things. 00:24:32.711 --> 00:24:35.591 So, yeah, it's a huge problem. 00:24:35.591 --> 00:24:41.251 But, you know, back to this sort of churn point, I think it plays into what 00:24:41.251 --> 00:24:45.311 you're talking about, because if there's a movie on a streaming service that you want to watch, 00:24:45.771 --> 00:24:51.151 people will happily, I would imagine, take out a streaming service for a month 00:24:51.151 --> 00:24:52.831 for the cost of a cinema ticket, 00:24:53.291 --> 00:24:57.371 watch the movie, maybe check out a couple of other things on the service, 00:24:57.431 --> 00:24:58.791 and then maybe disband the service. 00:24:58.791 --> 00:25:01.671 Sure um there's a very interesting uh 00:25:01.671 --> 00:25:04.911 example which does relate to apple and 00:25:04.911 --> 00:25:08.231 i'll make the awkward could you 00:25:08.231 --> 00:25:11.871 know route through there in a minute um so peacock 00:25:11.871 --> 00:25:16.431 as you know uh had an nfl playoff game exclusively on the streaming service 00:25:16.431 --> 00:25:22.711 first time uh a game had ever been exclusive to streaming uh it got lots of 00:25:22.711 --> 00:25:28.811 people in and a lot of them stayed millions were in and millions stayed They 00:25:28.811 --> 00:25:31.091 did a 30-year half-price deal, 00:25:31.291 --> 00:25:36.671 and they basically managed to keep a lot of those people because of this draw 00:25:36.671 --> 00:25:38.431 of this one live sporting event. 00:25:40.507 --> 00:25:43.047 Now, Apple has sporting events. We've talked about it before. 00:25:43.267 --> 00:25:47.147 It hasn't quite gone for the blockbuster sporting events that might make people 00:25:47.147 --> 00:25:50.607 go, oh, damn, I've really got to take out a TV Plus subscription. 00:25:52.507 --> 00:25:56.787 Yep. You know, Friday night baseball is one thing, but there are, 00:25:56.907 --> 00:26:01.767 as I've estimated it, and I'm a baseball fan, so I know that there are 3 million 00:26:01.767 --> 00:26:03.087 baseball matches each season. 00:26:03.647 --> 00:26:08.607 And so missing one on a Friday night for most people is kind of okay, 00:26:08.727 --> 00:26:11.647 right? because there's so many matches in the season to watch. 00:26:13.087 --> 00:26:18.007 I bow to your baseball fandom because I am not. 00:26:18.307 --> 00:26:21.267 Oh, if you look, it's officially three trillion matches a season. 00:26:21.287 --> 00:26:25.487 Okay. Well, it just went up. It's like interest. Yeah, yeah. 00:26:28.807 --> 00:26:34.187 But whereas obviously there's only one NFL playoff match, it's an NFL playoff match. 00:26:35.047 --> 00:26:38.287 And it seems to be a great way to get people through the door for Peacock. 00:26:38.287 --> 00:26:41.367 And I'm not sure Apple has many of those offers. 00:26:41.947 --> 00:26:45.287 I would agree with you, but here we go again. 00:26:45.967 --> 00:26:51.807 Apple is not big on that kind of one-time hit flash boom thing. 00:26:52.027 --> 00:26:55.787 They want messy, and they want that consistency. 00:26:56.927 --> 00:27:00.107 They want Friday Night Baseball. They want that consistency. 00:27:00.467 --> 00:27:05.187 They constantly play the long game. They don't always win at the long game, 00:27:05.187 --> 00:27:08.167 game but they kind of seldom just completely fall 00:27:08.167 --> 00:27:11.107 flat on the long game and so you 00:27:11.107 --> 00:27:14.587 know once again we just tv plus 00:27:14.587 --> 00:27:17.927 talk just celebrated a year okay how how 00:27:17.927 --> 00:27:23.207 old is that apple tv plus i'm not even sure four okay so four or five it was 00:27:23.207 --> 00:27:28.027 november 2019 four or five years four or five years and a couple of those were 00:27:28.027 --> 00:27:35.627 pandemic which again is a double-edged sword well it it did but you know we're right back to it. 00:27:36.347 --> 00:27:43.387 Could they, could they, at that point, did they have enough deep catalog to keep people? 00:27:43.727 --> 00:27:48.427 No, probably not. So, you know, we have all these weird factors that, 00:27:48.487 --> 00:27:50.087 you know, you and I discuss, 00:27:50.187 --> 00:27:54.447 I seldom hear discussed other places because other places seem to be looking 00:27:54.447 --> 00:27:59.227 for just a quick answer and then it's great or it's trash. 00:27:59.447 --> 00:28:03.587 You know, it's black or it's white. And I think there are a lot of deeper things 00:28:03.587 --> 00:28:09.487 going on here and in the bigger world of streaming, too, that are affecting how it all plays out. 00:28:11.024 --> 00:28:14.724 Yeah, I mean, this is, of course, why everyone should subscribe to TV Plus Talk, 00:28:14.844 --> 00:28:19.504 tell their friends about it, you know, subscribe to both the edition and Mac 00:28:19.504 --> 00:28:21.804 Voices, obviously. That question, yeah. 00:28:23.764 --> 00:28:28.664 Are you a chopper and a changer with your streaming services? Excuse me? What? 00:28:30.364 --> 00:28:34.964 You know, do you go from cancel one month, take something out for another month, 00:28:35.144 --> 00:28:36.864 chop and change like that? Yeah. Yeah. 00:28:38.044 --> 00:28:43.704 Well, Charlotte, the way I look at it, and I'm probably not the – don't look 00:28:43.704 --> 00:28:47.944 at it the way the average person does, but I've really cut back on my TV watching. 00:28:48.044 --> 00:28:51.464 But more importantly, I sort of developed an entertainment budget, 00:28:51.544 --> 00:28:57.384 and one of the components of that budget is what am I spending for cable or 00:28:57.384 --> 00:29:01.844 to access broadcast or for streaming services? 00:29:01.844 --> 00:29:06.024 And when I look at it versus the value I get out of it, it's like, 00:29:06.104 --> 00:29:13.704 yeah, I'd much rather say I'm going to binge this show or two shows on a service 00:29:13.704 --> 00:29:19.824 and then move on to something else, whether I keep the service and move on to a couple shows, 00:29:20.044 --> 00:29:24.224 other shows, or switch services and play catch-up. 00:29:24.804 --> 00:29:27.984 The only exception the only exception and 00:29:27.984 --> 00:29:30.804 i'll i'll admit it the only exception for that for 00:29:30.804 --> 00:29:34.064 me is is paramount and star trek you 00:29:34.064 --> 00:29:37.924 know that that's something that's my treat i really want that when as soon as 00:29:37.924 --> 00:29:43.804 i can get it um but beyond that and also it's yeah yeah it's that's all about 00:29:43.804 --> 00:29:50.404 the catalog as well i'm not a particular chop and changer i some of that is 00:29:50.404 --> 00:29:54.004 because i tend to often take out an annual subscription because it's better value. 00:29:55.685 --> 00:29:59.825 Often, you know, you often get basically 12 months for the price of 10 kind of thing. 00:30:01.145 --> 00:30:05.165 I'm also not sure I'm organized enough to sort it. So I'm not a particular chopper 00:30:05.165 --> 00:30:10.745 and changer, but I would probably save lots of money if I did do that. Go on then. 00:30:11.825 --> 00:30:16.385 Argyle. Argyle. Tell me about it. I haven't watched it, but I've been. 00:30:16.945 --> 00:30:20.925 Ah, nor have I. Okay, we can do maybe next month we'll do a review. 00:30:20.925 --> 00:30:25.965 But kind of the point is that everybody seemed to be really beating on it when 00:30:25.965 --> 00:30:27.745 it was, oh, it's a terrible movie and everything. 00:30:28.685 --> 00:30:31.565 Yeah, there were not good reviews for that. And yet when it hits the streaming 00:30:31.565 --> 00:30:36.645 services, if I remember correctly, this is the second or third week that it's in the top ten. 00:30:37.625 --> 00:30:43.625 So somebody's watching it, somebody's enjoying it, and somebody's giving it positive feedback. 00:30:44.025 --> 00:30:50.805 So I have to wonder, are we really, I hate to say this, but are we seeing a 00:30:50.805 --> 00:30:52.165 bit of a death knell for theaters? 00:30:53.245 --> 00:30:57.685 Is going to the theater going to become not just a blockbuster movie experience, 00:30:57.965 --> 00:31:01.325 but is it going to have to, is it going to become a much more special event, 00:31:01.785 --> 00:31:05.005 than it used to be, you know, Saturday night, let's go to the movies? 00:31:06.345 --> 00:31:09.745 Oh, I think undoubtedly, I think Barbenheimer proved that. 00:31:11.125 --> 00:31:19.205 So I'm just looking at Argyle on Rotten Tomatoes, a 72% audience score, 00:31:19.385 --> 00:31:24.365 a 33% tomato meter, which is, I believe, based on reviews. 00:31:28.265 --> 00:31:32.405 Listen, as someone that does paid for criticism, but of books, 00:31:32.425 --> 00:31:35.485 not movies, I obviously think everyone should listen to critics. 00:31:36.405 --> 00:31:44.285 But sometimes critics can pan things and viewers just find them fun. 00:31:45.185 --> 00:31:53.805 And a big, dumb, couple-of-hours-long action movie from the people that made Jurassic World is fun. 00:31:54.785 --> 00:31:58.825 It stars Bryce Dallas Howard, who was in the Jurassic World franchise. 00:31:59.665 --> 00:32:06.285 Like, as you know, Chuck, I am very pro silly, dumb action movies and TV shows. 00:32:08.085 --> 00:32:17.085 Very much in favour. So, two hour, 19 minute movie in that kind of vein, why not? 00:32:17.905 --> 00:32:22.585 This is another one of your platform positions for World Ruler. 00:32:25.434 --> 00:32:30.074 Possibly. There will obviously be World Ruler subsidies for dumb action movies. 00:32:30.234 --> 00:32:31.314 Okay, good. It's good to know. 00:32:31.774 --> 00:32:35.634 That's another reason to vote for Charlotte Henry for a World Ruler. Sure, sure. 00:32:37.694 --> 00:32:41.914 But, you know, my serious point, you know, Bryce has to say, 00:32:42.034 --> 00:32:45.214 in the Dress It World series she was, you've got Matthew Vaughan, 00:32:45.294 --> 00:32:48.754 you've got John Cena, you've got Dua Lipa. It's just fun. 00:32:51.434 --> 00:32:55.134 And that's okay. And have you looked outside recently? I mean, 00:32:55.134 --> 00:32:57.374 with what's going on in the world, we need fun. 00:32:58.034 --> 00:33:00.514 People are going to be attracted to fun. I'm very pro-fun. 00:33:01.554 --> 00:33:02.634 I'm very pro-fun. 00:33:04.034 --> 00:33:07.374 Tell you what, here's a promise. You and I are going to watch it and talk about 00:33:07.374 --> 00:33:12.914 it in the May version of TV Plus Talk to see if we agree with the professional 00:33:12.914 --> 00:33:14.014 critics or the audience. 00:33:14.314 --> 00:33:16.854 I'm quite looking forward to setting that up. All right, that's fair. 00:33:17.014 --> 00:33:18.894 I will move that up my watch list. 00:33:19.614 --> 00:33:22.594 I will move it up my watch list. Yeah, I think we will have fun with it. 00:33:22.794 --> 00:33:26.774 And I also think, and again, I slightly caveat this by saying I haven't watched it yet. 00:33:26.954 --> 00:33:30.574 One of the things I've criticized Apple TV Plus for, I think other people have 00:33:30.574 --> 00:33:34.434 noticed, is it sort of always took itself a bit too seriously, right? 00:33:34.754 --> 00:33:39.274 There was a few 30-minute comedies sprinkled in there, but generally it was 00:33:39.274 --> 00:33:44.054 all trying to be like HBO Max high-end drama, very, very pretty stuff. 00:33:45.074 --> 00:33:50.294 Yeah. Which is lovely. Yeah, but think about when Tim Cook introduced Apple 00:33:50.294 --> 00:33:55.854 TV Plus and, you know, the big push that, you know, we want to tell great stories. 00:33:56.874 --> 00:34:02.254 And the fun stuff is not always considered a great story. 00:34:03.894 --> 00:34:09.214 Sure, but my point is that I think it's good if Apple is slightly, 00:34:09.374 --> 00:34:13.134 you know, relaxing a bit and doing some fun city stuff as well. 00:34:13.474 --> 00:34:19.554 Agreed. Here we go. Yeah, only four years old, Charlotte, in a world that is 00:34:19.554 --> 00:34:21.514 built on shifting sands. 00:34:22.714 --> 00:34:25.914 They're evolving and learning just like the rest of us. 00:34:27.754 --> 00:34:33.094 Absolutely. Well, we'll be back next month to review Argyle, 00:34:33.114 --> 00:34:36.814 to see what services we've canceled and resubscribed to. 00:34:36.934 --> 00:34:40.494 Chuck, where can people keep up with you? You can find me at MacVoices.com. 00:34:40.574 --> 00:34:44.114 That's where I'm in the process of releasing some of the interviews I did at 00:34:44.114 --> 00:34:46.994 NAB this year, along with our other regular content. 00:34:47.434 --> 00:34:50.574 And on the socials, you can find me as at Chuck Joyner. 00:34:52.814 --> 00:34:56.194 One for one, yeah, I really have to fly out and hang out with you at NAB. 00:34:56.874 --> 00:35:01.374 I'm at Charlotte A. Henry across social media. Head over to theedition.net for 00:35:01.374 --> 00:35:07.854 blogs and newsletters and all that stuff on tech and media. There's the podcast as well. 00:35:08.654 --> 00:35:10.794 And we will see you next month. Thanks for watching.