WEBVTT

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Quiet numbskulls i'm broadcasting hello you're listening to the podcast so there i was,

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this is episode number 177 quince

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and mole wow squints and mole stay time night time hear all about it i mean

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177 too fig it's almost like we're getting regular at this you know i know i

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know it's crazy and this is what another outstanding show our very first ov-10 bronco pilots?

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Yep. Rink or OV-10? Two of them. Two of them. Yeah. Two Bronco drivers. Pigpen.

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Fantastic stuff. You'll find out how they got their call signs later, if you're lucky.

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Absolutely. And well, that's to the, especially to the folks at Patreon,

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because I don't think we closed the loop on that.

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Well, we got Felix's during the show and then we got sidetracked and never did get Pigpens.

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So we put that in our extra, which will be coming out. So if

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you want to learn about how pig pen got his call sign

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subscribe to so there was.us slash patreon

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and speaking of patreon there's a couple folks

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that have lost a sense of financial responsibility crack

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their wallets open and given us money to

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keep this show coming to you we're grateful for that dean

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chick correa gave us a hundred dollars thank you chick outstanding yeah nick

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shockley i'm probably butchering the name but nick shockley was we mentioned

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him back in i want to say April or May about being a tanker aircraft commander

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and he kept it rolling for four more months. So a total of $800.

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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Nick. That is over and above.

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We're, we're deeply grateful and he's trying to hook us up. Amazing loss of

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judgment, but we are so appreciative.

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Thank you. And he's trying to hook us up with some of the folks that flew down

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in Central America back in the 80s. Oh, nice.

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Yeah, maybe able to help us expand our guest list, as it were. Break, break, break.

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Coming into the middle of our preamble here, Fig and I have another announcement

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that we realized we didn't announce when we recorded the preamble.

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What haven't we done in a long time? We haven't hung out.

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No. We haven't had a hangout. Yeah. No.

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So what I want you to do is go to sothereiwas.us and I will have a link up there for our Zoom Hangout.

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We're going to do that on the 24th of September. That's a Wednesday,

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the 24th of September at 1900 Eastern Time.

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Get as many of us together. Just shoot the BS. Talk aviation.

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Pretend like we know what we're talking about. That kind of stuff.

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What do you think, Fig? I love it. I got it on my calendar right now. There we go.

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1900 Eastern, 2300 UTC, Wednesday, 24th September. So there I was, hang out.

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Be there or be square.

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Here endeth the breaking in announcement. Now back to your regularly scheduled preamble.

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And sponsor this week is master class some amazing videos from incredibly talented folks.

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Learn all kinds of cool stuff one of the ones i'm looking at going too soon

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is phil ivy and poker how not to give away your tells you know what i learned

00:03:22.369 --> 00:03:27.829
last night too what's that because of this master class thing is that you used

00:03:27.829 --> 00:03:33.049
to do magic oh yeah i did i did indeed that's a layer onion.

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I haven't appealed yet. There you go. That and stage hypnosis.

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And yeah, a quick story from that in just a second here, but let me tell you

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for you to go to masterclass and get 15% off, go to masterclass.com slash.

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So there I was masterclass.com slash.

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So there I was get 15% off your subscription. We'll talk more about that in

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the show, but a quick story from my stage hypnosis days, we were doing,

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I think it was the Chittenden County state fair in Vermont.

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And I told people, you know, sit down, relax, and you can't find your belly

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button when I count to three, you'll open your eyes and you can't find your belly button, and I'm,

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So I had them do that and they're, you know, people are all kind of freaking

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out. They're looking around and stuff.

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And the next thing I know, my wife was running the sound for me and she picked

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up a microphone and goes, turn around.

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Like, oh, there was a woman there and she was taking her shirt off looking for

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her belly button. I'm like, oh, I was interviewing someone with my back to her.

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I was like, turn around. This woman was starting to take her shirt off at the

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fair. It was like, no, no, no. Okay. You got it. It's back. Sit down. Relax. Close your eyes.

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All right. Well, hey, back to Felix and Pigpen. Yeah.

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Those guys, what a fun show. We did come on with Squints and Moles as the show

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title, but we had a bunch of other great possibilities. One of my favorites

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was a seven-ton missile magnet.

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I liked understanding what the Earth people do might be important.

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Might be important. He was referring to the ground pounders as in our Marine infantry brothers.

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Yeah whom they supported a lot and was the other one a dirt bike with wings,

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yeah how was it fun to fly yeah it was like a dirt

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bike with wings yeah uh let's see the excellent adventure which was how they

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how they referenced their what it'd take them a month to get a month to get

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from california to the middle east

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in the ov-10 bronco flying at 180 knots whether they needed to or not.

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They scattered airplanes all over the place. All over the globe.

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Hey, but they got there, right? They got there and they flew in the war.

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And, well, they took some, they had some airplanes that went down and I'm not

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going to ruin it, but good stories.

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Yeah, they lost their skipper and sadly he's now passed.

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Guy Hunter was the warrant officer in the back with their skipper who got shot

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down and was in the, I don't know, Was it the Baghdad Hilton with Bart?

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Yeah, we'll call it the Baghdad Hilton. Yeah. Yeah.

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So, what's some other great stories to include? Some wonderful stories about

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a buddy of mine from TBS, Flair, who has since passed. But some good stories about him.

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Squadermate of theirs, right? Yeah, squadermate of theirs. Flair and I were

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friends from day one at the basic school.

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And he was Mr. Cool. I learned a lot about the airplane.

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So did I. from guys that actually flew the shit out of it.

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So I was, I was really, I was really happy about that. And then to hear their

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stories about flying it were, that was just icing on the cake.

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Exactly. I mean, I think I knew a little more than, than I thought I did,

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but I mean, I certainly learned a lot last night, but having talked to Flair

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about it early on when he was flying it,

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I was unbelievably impressed with the mission and how hard it is to do that

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mission in that airplane.

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Because they were down there in the weeds getting the...

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Getting the eyes on target and marking targets for the mud movers,

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as they call them. Yeah. For us guys.

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They were down in the heart of the small arms, weapons envelopes, and AAA.

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And you know what else I lost sight of is that that was part of the Jet Strike pipeline.

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I really forgot that that was an option.

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Of course, I guess it really wasn't an option for you and I because they quit

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putting guys in that pipeline. But holy shit, that could have been an option.

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Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I think most people would have thought that when

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we finished primary, you could go helos, props, or strike.

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And the guys that went strike could go to the OV-10. That was not a prop airplane

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to go to, even though that has two of them.

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Yeah, some cool missions. Great missions, great stories.

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I think the best thing to do is get out of the way and listen to Felix and Pigpen

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tell us all about it. Let's get out of the way.

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All right, here comes show 177. 177, a Felix and Big Pen.

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Don't sit on that ejection seat handle. Ooh, it's not in this airplane. It happens fast.

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Music.

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So there I was, crossing the border between Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, 1991.

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We had been patrolling a lot a couple months before the actual war kicked off.

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So we're flying into Kuwait.

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I think we're on a mission just for recon in a Bronco with a beanie in the back,

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a forward air controller in the back.

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And we're flying in and not seeing anything unusual. We don't see anything out of the ordinary.

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We're in about, I don't know, maybe three, five miles in past the border.

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And we notice some black, puffy puffs in the sky around us.

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Initially, it was like, what's that? And then immediately, it was like, oh, we know what that is.

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And I'll stop there, I guess. All right. Yeah.

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That's one. All right, Pigpen. So there I was after three days stuck in the

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rain at Goose Bay on the way on the Excellent Adventure, rotate the airplane,

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swat the gear handle up, and my big giant tack chart goes flying around the

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cockpit like John Belushi in 1941.

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So I quickly slap shut the air vent to collect my stuff.

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And then I go back to open air vent up and realize that I'm going to be the

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first and only pilot to arrive in Saudi Arabia with frostbite.

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Oh, shit.

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Whoa, well, so, hello, and welcome to So There I Was. That's two,

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two So There I Was openers.

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And I can't wait to hear what's next. Reepy, where are you tonight?

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Reepy's home in New Hampshire, and thrilled to welcome two marine aviators this week.

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And maybe next week, we'll see how long the show goes. We may split this one up.

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That we're good friends with a buddy of mine from the basic school who I had

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the pleasure of attending his daughter's wedding a couple weeks ago and got

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to meet these gents there.

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Sadly, we lost flair about 16 years ago to pulmonary embolism,

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which was just horrible.

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But it was a privilege to see his daughter and then meet the Marines who flew in Gulf War I with him.

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So we're here to welcome Felix and Pigpen, our first Bronco drivers.

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Vig, we got a first here. Yeah, we're popping our Bronco cherry. Very cool.

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And, you know, we've never talked much about the OV-10 Bronco,

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except I think if it's ever been mentioned, I'm pretty sure I would have said,

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that is a fucking hard mission. So all respect to you guys, man.

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That looks like a handful of airplane to fly and do the shit you had to do when you were flying it.

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With charts and shit. Yeah, charts, man.

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Charts? I and S, right? I can't wait to hear all about it. He did beat walking, so, yeah. Yeah.

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All right. No kidding. So, let's go alphabetical order. So, Felix,

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when's the first time you looked up at the sky and went, I could do that?

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Oh, man, I wanted to fly since I was a little kid.

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All right. Yeah. So, I actually got an Air Force scholarship,

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full-ride scholarship, that I thought was flight designated,

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like I was designated for pilot, which they do those things, the Air Force did.

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And I was going to Clemson and about after at the end of the first year,

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beginning of the of the of my my sophomore year, I was somehow I figured out that it wasn't a flight.

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It was it was an engineer tagged billet.

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And so I'm trying to get them to change it. They wouldn't change it.

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So I, I, I dropped the scholarship, I quit and I went, I did the Marine PLC

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program and, and because they, they, they, they said they were going to guarantee

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me a flight slot, which they eventually did. So that was nice.

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Eventually, eventually, you know, we're in that weird delayed program.

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Like we, we all had the, had the flight contract.

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And then you get you know by the time you get

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you get to go to tv you know you get go to tbs yeah but you

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know at that point oh the flight school's full we

00:13:15.416 --> 00:13:18.216
can't let you in yeah you know we're going to put give you

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a second billet and then we'll we'll let we'll let you know when you get to

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go to flight school that's what happened to disco and strut right and repeat

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yeah yeah and flare oh yeah and flare yeah flare and i were in the same company

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tvs so it was great yeah so uh But yeah, in fact, Flair and I, it was funny.

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I checked in in Charlie's because I had already bought my uniform.

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And so I'm standing outside waiting for my wife to pick me up.

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And Flair comes up and he's in a suit to check into the basic school.

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And he comes up to me and goes, sir, is this where I check in? I'm like, sir?

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Yeah, second lieutenant, just like you, dude. I just checked in. Yeah, right in there.

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And we were fast friends and good friends ever since.

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So, yeah, it was awesome. And we remained friends until the day of his passing.

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So, all right. Well, very cool.

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Jeez. And I just told you before the show, write it down, and I didn't write

00:14:10.136 --> 00:14:12.856
it down. And my question now has slipped by mind.

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Oh, that was it. Which company were you in? Do you remember?

00:14:18.116 --> 00:14:23.036
At the basic school, yeah. When did you start? I think, oh, man,

00:14:23.096 --> 00:14:25.116
I don't know. I think I was Charlie Company. Now I'm trying.

00:14:26.836 --> 00:14:28.456
Delta 85. Okay.

00:14:30.256 --> 00:14:32.996
Nice. so pigpen you

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went if you were in delta you went straight to the to pensacola

00:14:36.236 --> 00:14:39.416
after tbsn i did actually yeah i

00:14:39.416 --> 00:14:43.076
did yeah because that was the big lie they told us that no one will go to flight

00:14:43.076 --> 00:14:48.596
school that that's behind you and they took uh like golf hotel alpha bravo charlie

00:14:48.596 --> 00:14:53.316
and stuck us all to the fleet so when did you start when you start well the

00:14:53.316 --> 00:14:56.916
guys in my company started in 1986,

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so two years later.

00:14:59.856 --> 00:15:02.936
And I didn't, long story on mine, I lost my flight contract.

00:15:03.156 --> 00:15:06.876
I didn't actually start until November of 87. I had to fight to get my flight

00:15:06.876 --> 00:15:12.296
contract back, which I eventually did, but it was definitely not guaranteed.

00:15:12.776 --> 00:15:14.016
So, yeah.

00:15:15.839 --> 00:15:21.379
So, all right. How about you, Pigpen? When did you look up in the sky and go, how can you get?

00:15:21.579 --> 00:15:27.399
Like, I still go to bed at night thinking about airplanes and wake up thinking

00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:28.839
about airplanes. Right on.

00:15:29.459 --> 00:15:35.059
Yeah. It's looked at that way. I think we actually lived off the approach of

00:15:35.059 --> 00:15:37.039
Erie International Airport as a kid.

00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:39.739
And my dad would take me to the hangars and poke around. And one day,

00:15:39.959 --> 00:15:43.359
I figured out it was right around my eighth birthday. He took me in a,

00:15:43.359 --> 00:15:47.299
it must have been a 206 or 182 because they got the whole family in it. And we flew around that.

00:15:48.179 --> 00:15:53.459
And then the next time I flew was on an airliner on the way to PLC program. I like that.

00:15:55.059 --> 00:15:59.579
Yeah. Yeah. Always was awesome. Yeah. Right. And a nice welcoming committee

00:15:59.579 --> 00:16:01.179
at Washington National. Yeah.

00:16:02.479 --> 00:16:06.219
Vamp up, baby. Yeah. The worst, the second time, I was an idiot.

00:16:06.359 --> 00:16:10.499
I went, I went to the suburb, two increments, you know. I don't know.

00:16:11.079 --> 00:16:15.359
That was tough. I don't know, you know, I could, I don't think I could have done that.

00:16:15.699 --> 00:16:19.579
I did the 10 weeker thing and, and, and I was so pissed when I left.

00:16:19.819 --> 00:16:24.339
I was thinking the two timer thing. I don't think I could have done it.

00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:27.999
I didn't, I did not enjoy the bummer summer either, but anyway, it was fun.

00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:32.079
I mean, I learned a lot there. There were parts that I learned as a,

00:16:32.239 --> 00:16:35.659
in our community, being, understanding what the earth people do was important.

00:16:35.859 --> 00:16:37.339
So I think there were some lessons learned.

00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:47.459
My experience carrying a rifle around. but uh that's great i uh yeah yeah absolutely

00:16:47.459 --> 00:16:52.859
no i i like to say i failed life's iq test i went to plc junior and senior as well.

00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:01.919
Thank you sir if i had another exactly wait you went back you went back for

00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:07.059
more of that shit All right.

00:17:08.239 --> 00:17:13.279
Too funny. So, hey, this is for either one of you guys, both of you.

00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:16.959
Does any special...

00:17:21.438 --> 00:17:24.378
Experience stick out from officer candidate school

00:17:24.378 --> 00:17:27.438
oh shit yeah yeah because

00:17:27.438 --> 00:17:30.618
right on let's go i would love to hear it well i'm

00:17:30.618 --> 00:17:33.978
i can remember i'm on the ground so i'm on the grinder we're marching

00:17:33.978 --> 00:17:36.758
around you know and somehow i was like i was this

00:17:36.758 --> 00:17:40.618
they made me the scribe you know i was a guy who was not quite in charge but

00:17:40.618 --> 00:17:45.298
i was you know riding watch anyway and uh i don't know i was getting a little

00:17:45.298 --> 00:17:49.538
cocky or what but we're out there marching around doing something and this mean

00:17:49.538 --> 00:17:55.138
old fat gunny came through our squad bay and a hurricane you know blew through it i'm like oh shit,

00:17:55.838 --> 00:18:02.558
and next thing you know hey it was me oh said hey you're right by the front door.

00:18:03.938 --> 00:18:07.558
Well i you know what he did was he just went and looked for someone who had

00:18:07.558 --> 00:18:12.658
you know how you know you pre-do your lock so you can just snap it open i didn't

00:18:12.658 --> 00:18:19.818
you know i had it right on there he found mine and oh boy oh and it was a yard

00:18:19.818 --> 00:18:22.278
sale of your shit going down the squad bay right,

00:18:22.758 --> 00:18:25.718
it's like you know what i then i cleaned it up then the

00:18:25.718 --> 00:18:28.318
biggest thing was you know i go do that and then i was like well how do

00:18:28.318 --> 00:18:31.538
i where do they go how do i get reintegrated with this it's just

00:18:31.538 --> 00:18:34.678
crazy yeah we have

00:18:34.678 --> 00:18:37.918
had drill instructors on to include

00:18:37.918 --> 00:18:41.298
first sergeant crouch who was at Parris

00:18:41.298 --> 00:18:44.298
Island among other things but also did AOCS in

00:18:44.298 --> 00:18:47.358
Pensacola and we had a wonderful story from

00:18:47.358 --> 00:18:51.518
First Sergeant Crouch about finding various various

00:18:51.518 --> 00:18:54.998
articles and you know unsecured foot locker yeah

00:18:54.998 --> 00:18:57.738
unsecured foot locker desk I'll briefly tell look

00:18:57.738 --> 00:19:01.638
I've teased it I'll tell the story briefly here yeah he found a wallet with

00:19:01.638 --> 00:19:06.238
$174 in it and did the did the young candidate a favor since nobody steals loose

00:19:06.238 --> 00:19:11.758
change he had 174 converted to loose change and then he had to do ups and downs

00:19:11.758 --> 00:19:17.638
with the up downs with his rifle while counting the loose changes it was scattered about the deck and.

00:19:19.999 --> 00:19:22.859
However however this is a very

00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:25.559
impressive part which he didn't catch the first time he

00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:28.359
told the story so he went to the bank and got it in

00:19:28.359 --> 00:19:32.079
they were you know nickels dimes and quarters and they were in rolls so

00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:35.399
he's got this kid oh there's no quarters pennies nickels dimes remember no quarters

00:19:35.399 --> 00:19:39.499
because people take quarters he has this kid with the rifle doing all this shit

00:19:39.499 --> 00:19:42.899
you know and he's and he's taking these these rollers and he's throwing them

00:19:42.899 --> 00:19:46.939
on the floor and they're coming apart and he goes he goes all right that's 17

00:19:46.939 --> 00:19:51.899
this and 17 that how much is that and the kid would get it right and he goes son of a bitch,

00:19:53.979 --> 00:19:58.419
so you know it kind of backfired on him in a way but it was still impressive

00:19:58.419 --> 00:20:03.479
very impressive yeah and then he then he was kind enough to donate to us,

00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:09.919
$174 in loose change so thank you for starting his doorstep weighing like 39

00:20:09.919 --> 00:20:12.959
pounds it cost more to ship it,

00:20:13.599 --> 00:20:19.599
put him over the $200 air tanker aircraft tanker commander level,

00:20:20.379 --> 00:20:23.799
So thank First Sergeant Crouch again for that.

00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:29.259
We are deeply grateful for the humor and the – but those guys are comedians. Anyway, all right.

00:20:29.639 --> 00:20:32.699
That was a rabbit hole and we didn't need to go down. Felix,

00:20:32.959 --> 00:20:37.659
do you have any standout memories from OCS that you still giggle about?

00:20:39.819 --> 00:20:43.239
There's a funny one that they would make,

00:20:43.339 --> 00:20:48.459
you know, when you march and you're running that slow jog run with the platoon,

00:20:48.499 --> 00:20:51.339
I guess, with it with you and so you're running and then

00:20:51.339 --> 00:20:54.739
they pull you know they rotate rotate candidates out

00:20:54.739 --> 00:20:57.599
to do the chance and so you know

00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.719
they and that's like you know we don't know how to do chance oh

00:21:00.719 --> 00:21:04.579
man i couldn't yeah couldn't you do jody's for shit but

00:21:04.579 --> 00:21:07.819
i i remember the one so

00:21:07.819 --> 00:21:13.659
they do let's see i'm trying to think of what this the chant was like uh so

00:21:13.659 --> 00:21:21.679
you'd go like uh dead dedication and you run into that and then one guy and

00:21:21.679 --> 00:21:26.219
then they do some other one and then one of them was determine,

00:21:26.439 --> 00:21:32.139
erm, erm, erm, erm it doesn't really work and so I kind of cracked up about

00:21:32.139 --> 00:21:36.199
that and that was not good, that was not good so I got,

00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:40.139
if I die on a Russian front,

00:21:41.579 --> 00:21:43.259
alright, well thank you,

00:21:44.719 --> 00:21:46.819
fantastic Oh, man.

00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:50.239
So you reach on daddy and all those characters. Oh, yeah. Right?

00:21:51.739 --> 00:21:55.079
So Pensacola for both of you guys for initial, right?

00:21:55.299 --> 00:21:58.999
Initial like AI, whatever they call it. That's what they called it back then.

00:21:59.139 --> 00:22:03.839
And then did both of you guys go through primary at Whiting or did somebody go to Corpus?

00:22:04.479 --> 00:22:06.999
I thought all primary was Whiting when we were going through.

00:22:07.099 --> 00:22:09.819
Yeah, Corpus. But, yeah, I was VT3. Were you VT2?

00:22:11.179 --> 00:22:16.419
Yeah, VT2. I was VT3. All right. And then you went to Beeville,

00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:17.619
right? And I went to Kingsville.

00:22:19.411 --> 00:22:26.311
So, let me ask you this. You guys, out of primary, did you select Jets? Yes.

00:22:26.791 --> 00:22:30.251
Jets. Okay. We weren't expecting to get OB-10s. Yeah, we were.

00:22:30.631 --> 00:22:35.211
None of us were very happy. We weren't happy at the time. None of us were happy. But it worked out.

00:22:35.431 --> 00:22:40.051
OB-10s weren't an option when we went through.

00:22:40.471 --> 00:22:46.851
I mean, actually, the last F-4 squadron, the VMFP3 was off.

00:22:46.851 --> 00:22:49.671
The guys in my class guys in my

00:22:49.671 --> 00:22:52.551
class flew with vmfp3 like walt wright and some guys

00:22:52.551 --> 00:22:55.531
i knew guys john bond all those

00:22:55.531 --> 00:22:58.811
so i i could have gotten that i wanted a6s is

00:22:58.811 --> 00:23:02.231
all i wanted i didn't want to fly but you know there

00:23:02.231 --> 00:23:05.011
there was a time though when they were doing from helo guys and

00:23:05.011 --> 00:23:08.051
they're mixing it up it was a interesting community

00:23:08.051 --> 00:23:11.391
i'll just say that but kind of a mixed it's like a bikers gang

00:23:11.391 --> 00:23:14.111
there you go people from all

00:23:14.111 --> 00:23:17.091
community pretty crazy we had a marine

00:23:17.091 --> 00:23:22.191
corps birthday ball out in fallon at the boat the birthday ball was at the hyatt

00:23:22.191 --> 00:23:28.851
lake tahoe and it was a combined ace deployment out there and q1 right vmo q1

00:23:28.851 --> 00:23:34.951
was out was with us and those fuckers got in a fist fight amongst themselves at the ball.

00:23:37.211 --> 00:23:41.871
I mean, it was awesome. They were bloody. Their ribbons were torn off.

00:23:42.231 --> 00:23:46.211
I mean, they got knocked out, drag out, fight. We're like, whoa.

00:23:46.711 --> 00:23:51.391
I thought they'd pick on us, but no, they fighting amongst themselves. Yeah. That's funny.

00:23:52.191 --> 00:23:55.711
I'm trying to think. Yeah, by the time I went through, I think there were still

00:23:55.711 --> 00:24:00.171
OV-10s occasionally, and then Harriers, and then the EA-6s.

00:24:00.271 --> 00:24:03.411
That was it. Oh, and Hornets. but there were no Hornets by the one I selected.

00:24:03.791 --> 00:24:08.911
Well, you still think they got A6s because there was guys that from my class that got A6s.

00:24:09.371 --> 00:24:14.451
Okay, maybe. I know there were Navy guys still getting A6s. I didn't remember

00:24:14.451 --> 00:24:16.131
any Marines. I guess there was, yeah.

00:24:17.271 --> 00:24:19.031
When did you get your wings, Pete?

00:24:20.331 --> 00:24:26.271
January of 90. Okay, yeah. And one thing that I think that we did a little differently

00:24:26.271 --> 00:24:31.111
is they actually put us through the Air Force OB-10 rack, which is kind of interesting.

00:24:31.231 --> 00:24:35.431
So we went to Patrick, did you go to Patrick or did you go to Tucson? It was Patrick. Yeah.

00:24:35.811 --> 00:24:41.671
It was probably three, four months of basic flying stuff and a little bit of

00:24:41.671 --> 00:24:43.311
tattoo. Two weeks all crammed into four months.

00:24:43.571 --> 00:24:47.191
Yeah. I mean, it was, it wasn't, it wasn't as hard as strike training as for sure.

00:24:47.391 --> 00:24:51.531
And a four, it was kind of fun, but it was interesting because we've got to

00:24:51.531 --> 00:24:53.311
see how the other, other world lives.

00:24:53.471 --> 00:24:57.891
And, uh, we were definitely misfits amongst, I mean, Oh yeah.

00:24:58.592 --> 00:25:01.212
But I met some really cool people. There were guys coming through,

00:25:01.872 --> 00:25:06.152
like F-111 guys coming out for like a B tour for flying a different airplane.

00:25:06.332 --> 00:25:08.792
And it was pretty cool. I met a lot of interesting people there.

00:25:09.232 --> 00:25:12.012
And it was nice, nice, clean airplanes. I noticed as well.

00:25:12.452 --> 00:25:15.312
Exactly. And they had a better avionics package, too.

00:25:15.612 --> 00:25:20.832
I remember flying into Patrick on, I don't, I'm with a instructor doing something.

00:25:21.132 --> 00:25:23.732
And so he comes and goes, okay, shoot the ILS approach. And I'm going,

00:25:23.892 --> 00:25:25.572
what the heck is an ILS? An ILS?

00:25:26.192 --> 00:25:28.312
But luckily, though. How do you spell that? Yeah.

00:25:29.752 --> 00:25:35.752
Okay, I'll try it. Well, it's super easy. I had an Atari computer,

00:25:35.972 --> 00:25:41.352
like an Atari 64-bit computer, and it had a flight simulator on it, and it had ILS on there.

00:25:41.432 --> 00:25:45.312
So when I'm practicing, you know, before, this is like I'm playing with this

00:25:45.312 --> 00:25:49.552
flight simulator, and I've flown the ILS there, so then you go shoot the ILS,

00:25:49.692 --> 00:25:51.612
and I'm thinking, okay, well, I've done this on the simulator.

00:25:51.952 --> 00:25:55.492
And it was ILS is easy, though. You just keep those bars lined up. It's like, okay.

00:25:56.252 --> 00:26:01.312
I learned that, but they had nice clean planes with upgraded avionics.

00:26:01.472 --> 00:26:03.112
I mean, we had pretty crap.

00:26:03.312 --> 00:26:06.612
I mean, we didn't – when we were – and so I remember, Picfin,

00:26:06.652 --> 00:26:12.052
remember when we got those Trimble GPS units that we got, just portable units

00:26:12.052 --> 00:26:16.192
that you'd stick on your dash so you wouldn't get lost in that sea of sand out there.

00:26:16.612 --> 00:26:21.712
I mean, that's the kind of avionics we had. And the satellites were useful like

00:26:21.712 --> 00:26:24.352
four hours a day. And we'd be flying along. Of course they were.

00:26:24.832 --> 00:26:28.092
And Targ would go, hold on, it's time. And he'd pull it up and kind of hold

00:26:28.092 --> 00:26:32.352
it up. And he'd go, okay, ready? He'd read me a lot long. I'd write it on the map. I'd go, okay.

00:26:34.312 --> 00:26:38.252
Tells me we're on the 180 for 25 in the tech end store. There's your moving map.

00:26:38.972 --> 00:26:44.612
Yeah. Put the vent on your map. We'll start moving. I remember they gave us the Loran as well.

00:26:44.812 --> 00:26:48.032
They put a Loran system in. Wow. They're going around the world with the tech

00:26:48.032 --> 00:26:51.492
ends following the Hose Dragon piano players.

00:26:52.732 --> 00:26:57.552
And the SEAL teams blew up the Laurent Towers in the first day of the war so

00:26:57.552 --> 00:26:59.292
that was useless so we had a TAC-AN.

00:27:01.512 --> 00:27:08.012
And we just did that and you know just cuts off the TAC-AN you guys,

00:27:08.192 --> 00:27:10.332
because that airplane did not have an INS right?

00:27:10.672 --> 00:27:16.912
No, the D did but we never used it, remember the D had an INS but it was useless it did?

00:27:18.492 --> 00:27:22.412
But I think it took out a D plus But the older D's had it, it was useless.

00:27:22.912 --> 00:27:31.132
So can you tell us the official version of what the OV-10's mission is, was?

00:27:32.666 --> 00:27:35.366
Well, for us, it was primarily forward air control, right? I mean,

00:27:35.486 --> 00:27:41.806
our job was basically, you know, it's an interesting community because we had

00:27:41.806 --> 00:27:45.326
in the back seat either an infantry officer or artillery guy.

00:27:45.586 --> 00:27:48.866
And later, NFOs called SACAs who were trained.

00:27:49.046 --> 00:27:55.746
They were ground pounders or infantry officers or combat arms officers who were then naval aviators.

00:27:56.166 --> 00:28:00.686
And it was a two-seat mission. So we were, you know, I think what the great

00:28:00.686 --> 00:28:04.206
Tubo Sams would say, we were the hyphen in the air-ground team.

00:28:04.346 --> 00:28:07.146
We would coordinate the ground and the air activity.

00:28:07.306 --> 00:28:10.946
Sometimes it would be more of a TAC-A thing, often a FAC-A thing.

00:28:11.646 --> 00:28:16.046
Okay. I mean, a bunch of cool things we would do. I mean, Felix, what am I missing?

00:28:16.426 --> 00:28:21.486
No, that sounds right. I mean, the first class that we went to for the N-type

00:28:21.486 --> 00:28:24.926
training at the Air Force for the OB-10, the first thing that we did,

00:28:24.986 --> 00:28:26.826
I don't know if you did this too. I think you must have.

00:28:27.086 --> 00:28:31.926
We went to Hurlburt Field and had to learn all the TAC and FAC stuff,

00:28:32.306 --> 00:28:33.406
the border control. Okay.

00:28:33.806 --> 00:28:40.546
And that was our first, which I have to be honest, I didn't care for. But, I mean, you know.

00:28:41.526 --> 00:28:44.606
But I'll tell you what, though. You're a brand new kid in the fleet, and you're showing up.

00:28:44.826 --> 00:28:48.246
And, you know, I mean, you get in the squad, and you work your way up.

00:28:48.286 --> 00:28:52.386
The next thing you know, you're at Red Flag, and you're controlling four F-16s.

00:28:52.746 --> 00:28:55.906
And if they don't say wings level, they're off the range.

00:28:56.026 --> 00:28:59.266
And if you don't, you guys are, you guys are, you know, you guys are mud moving

00:28:59.266 --> 00:29:04.206
HUD guys. You know, if the fact can be pushed around or not. No. Yeah.

00:29:04.966 --> 00:29:10.066
A good one won't be. So, and you guys were, were you guys marking targets with rockets?

00:29:10.486 --> 00:29:14.746
Yeah. So in Desert Storm, we had, we had, we had, we had flares and we had laser

00:29:14.746 --> 00:29:17.366
guide. We have a flare with a laser spot tracker in it. Okay.

00:29:17.506 --> 00:29:20.386
Okay. And then we had, we had Zuni rockets as well.

00:29:21.666 --> 00:29:25.726
And we had flares on the Ds, but I remember that story I started.

00:29:25.726 --> 00:29:28.626
I was in an a they didn't they didn't all they

00:29:28.626 --> 00:29:31.426
only did we didn't have we brought a's over right or were

00:29:31.426 --> 00:29:34.286
they all did but but yeah so we

00:29:34.286 --> 00:29:37.066
had big pen you had to be on the a team to

00:29:37.066 --> 00:29:41.106
get the one with the flare you weren't supposed to say that no we

00:29:41.106 --> 00:29:44.166
got to fly at night dude and that's the word yeah

00:29:44.166 --> 00:29:46.986
so we did both we did

00:29:46.986 --> 00:29:49.786
both but i split ourselves up into crews we

00:29:49.786 --> 00:29:52.706
had we had squints and moles we had dig crews so we

00:29:52.706 --> 00:29:56.166
had it we had an assigned backs you know there's screwing moles there's

00:29:56.166 --> 00:29:59.526
another show yeah yeah we had assigned crews and

00:29:59.526 --> 00:30:06.706
we we we rotated basically our schedule was we would fly five days right we'd

00:30:06.706 --> 00:30:11.806
rotate so if i was a night guy anywhere there were blocks i think there were

00:30:11.806 --> 00:30:15.106
four and a half hour blocks and you just rotate through and then at the end

00:30:15.106 --> 00:30:17.086
You hit SDO, and that was great.

00:30:17.346 --> 00:30:20.826
Or you hit strip watch, 30-minute launch.

00:30:21.226 --> 00:30:23.706
And so basically, you flew six days and one day off.

00:30:24.843 --> 00:30:30.223
What was your one day off a duty day? Yep, SDO. That was the best day because

00:30:30.223 --> 00:30:31.623
you were going to get shot at in your SDO.

00:30:33.163 --> 00:30:37.543
And every time I had a trip alert, I always had to launch because some knucklehead

00:30:37.543 --> 00:30:39.043
from another squadron, I guess. I don't know.

00:30:39.443 --> 00:30:42.883
Either way. And the phone probably never rang as an SDO. Although you probably

00:30:42.883 --> 00:30:43.743
didn't answer the radio.

00:30:44.023 --> 00:30:50.363
So how many squadrons, when you guys got to your squadrons, how many OV-10 squadrons did we have? Two?

00:30:50.663 --> 00:30:54.603
One on the East? Two at Eastern West Coast and VMO. So you had VMO-2 in Pendleton,

00:30:54.723 --> 00:30:57.523
VMO-1 in New River, and then VMO-4 in Atlanta.

00:30:58.383 --> 00:31:04.003
So VMO-4 was the reserve? Yeah, yeah. And then a debt that was jointly supported

00:31:04.003 --> 00:31:08.683
for a long time, but finally VMO-2 had the debt in Okinawa. Okay.

00:31:09.943 --> 00:31:14.223
How many airplanes in a squadron? 12, 14.

00:31:14.443 --> 00:31:18.643
I mean, we had airplanes plus, right? I mean, we'd have 12 to 16,

00:31:18.643 --> 00:31:23.503
I'd imagine. And then on the debt, you'd have six or so over there that are sort of separate.

00:31:24.943 --> 00:31:28.343
So it was a pretty tight community, really.

00:31:28.503 --> 00:31:32.823
I mean, you guys probably all knew, either knew each other or knew about each

00:31:32.823 --> 00:31:35.303
other, right? Okay, that's pretty small.

00:31:35.583 --> 00:31:38.223
Well, on the east and west coast, you're kind of separate, right,

00:31:38.323 --> 00:31:39.303
in our own little worlds.

00:31:39.523 --> 00:31:43.743
The one thing, and I'll let you talk, Felix, is what was happening was there

00:31:43.743 --> 00:31:48.443
was a contract where they were taking the OV-10s and they were slapping them,

00:31:48.523 --> 00:31:49.703
right? service life extension program.

00:31:49.903 --> 00:31:52.043
So airplanes have come through as A's.

00:31:52.543 --> 00:31:56.303
So airplanes, it was kind of neat. If you open up your logbook,

00:31:57.063 --> 00:31:59.043
like there's these things flying around.

00:31:59.363 --> 00:32:03.743
Most of the airplanes, we got to fly because they came, maybe I flew,

00:32:03.903 --> 00:32:08.983
like the first airplane I flew in the Marine Corps OB-10, I first was an A model

00:32:08.983 --> 00:32:10.523
and the last was a D model.

00:32:10.703 --> 00:32:13.203
It was the same airplane, but had been converted. So the point is,

00:32:13.683 --> 00:32:14.943
airplanes are first crossing.

00:32:15.103 --> 00:32:19.803
It's also a very small community to your point but yeah so so you see you flew

00:32:19.803 --> 00:32:23.743
the same bureau number it was the two different airplanes exactly it was an

00:32:23.743 --> 00:32:27.743
a model and then it was a d model yeah and i think the a models fly better i

00:32:27.743 --> 00:32:31.483
think what was the big difference when they slept it and turned it into a d

00:32:31.483 --> 00:32:33.043
what what kind of upgrades was it.

00:32:34.935 --> 00:32:37.875
They put the FLIR, they put a FLIR on it before looking in for it.

00:32:38.955 --> 00:32:43.395
So they had, the D was it had a thousand horsepower versus 700 horsepower.

00:32:43.635 --> 00:32:48.255
Okay. More structure and a longer nose. And then the slap, they went in and

00:32:48.255 --> 00:32:52.695
they, they did a bunch of, they put in all digital radios and zhuzhed up a few

00:32:52.695 --> 00:32:55.115
things here, electronically, electronic wise.

00:32:55.335 --> 00:32:59.415
Okay. We went to digital, which is weird because like digital radios,

00:32:59.475 --> 00:33:00.315
you guys understand this.

00:33:00.635 --> 00:33:04.355
In the OV-10, you're listening to, we had two FMs, an HF.

00:33:04.935 --> 00:33:08.315
And so you're listening to all these radios. And these airplanes sound like,

00:33:08.395 --> 00:33:10.095
yeah, we've both flown that airplane. I guarantee it.

00:33:10.455 --> 00:33:14.255
These airplanes, if you're listening on an FM radio and you're listening on

00:33:14.255 --> 00:33:18.875
a UHF radio, they sound differently because of the side tone in a classic airplane.

00:33:19.055 --> 00:33:23.375
And you can kind of keep them separate in your head. But when we got the digital

00:33:23.375 --> 00:33:27.175
radios, they all sounded the same. Oh, shit. I couldn't do that.

00:33:27.855 --> 00:33:31.255
You could not listen to three channels at once. I couldn't anyway.

00:33:31.255 --> 00:33:36.495
There's nuanced things, but it's still a 7-ton missile magnet.

00:33:36.595 --> 00:33:38.795
It would still fly about 200 knots.

00:33:39.915 --> 00:33:43.815
7-ton missile magnets. It's not an airplane to fly, but just,

00:33:43.915 --> 00:33:47.495
you know. Not in a sophisticated threat environment.

00:33:48.335 --> 00:33:54.355
So, okay, I want to know all there is to know about how it flies and all that,

00:33:54.455 --> 00:33:57.215
but let's go back real quick before we get too far downrange.

00:33:58.675 --> 00:34:04.275
You're not calling him a weapon. He's a aerial observer or, and then later on became a weapon. A.O.

00:34:04.695 --> 00:34:09.435
A.O. is top. Okay. A.O. or a SEC A. Were they controlling airplanes or,

00:34:09.435 --> 00:34:13.495
or were they coordinating gunfire or, you know, marking targets?

00:34:14.035 --> 00:34:17.035
Sometimes. Yeah. They could, they would all be certified to.

00:34:18.533 --> 00:34:21.313
To run the air but usually the way it would

00:34:21.313 --> 00:34:25.213
work out is they're experts in the ground but but it is it is a two-man operation

00:34:25.213 --> 00:34:29.433
for sure like okay but typically they all had to be called to run air and that's

00:34:29.433 --> 00:34:33.553
just sometimes you need them because you need another set of eyes yeah but it's

00:34:33.553 --> 00:34:39.973
also a challenge to make sure you know you know having a situation situational awareness to do that job,

00:34:40.693 --> 00:34:45.373
requires a certain i don't know a bit of tenure so some of some are better than

00:34:45.373 --> 00:34:48.213
others i guess is what I'd say. That applies to both seats.

00:34:48.573 --> 00:34:52.933
Then also, they're not pilots.

00:34:53.333 --> 00:34:58.333
I would imagine that some had issues with air sickness.

00:34:59.153 --> 00:35:02.793
Oh, yeah. There's some guys. Remember Lefty used to always every time we'd go

00:35:02.793 --> 00:35:06.453
flying. It's funny. One thing that got him was, this guy's a great American.

00:35:07.793 --> 00:35:15.033
The climbing left turned, but I always kick his ass. He knew that.

00:35:15.173 --> 00:35:21.373
He just And the dirty secret is the airplane has a message drop door, too, you know?

00:35:21.713 --> 00:35:24.033
Oh, boy. So one of our cool missions would be we would drop.

00:35:24.273 --> 00:35:28.173
We're supposed to back in the days, you take a Polaroid, and then you put the

00:35:28.173 --> 00:35:30.553
Polaroid into the drop pouch and drop it on the grunts.

00:35:30.793 --> 00:35:33.133
And that would be fun because we get to do that and get the access.

00:35:33.333 --> 00:35:38.913
So we would try to hit the Humvee with whatever we might find in the pouch,

00:35:38.913 --> 00:35:41.833
which might have come from someone's box at the CACS.

00:35:42.253 --> 00:35:45.113
It may not be tactical pictures, but they were pictures. Anyway.

00:35:45.793 --> 00:35:50.213
I see where that's going. You get good at, it's anyway, I digress.

00:35:50.533 --> 00:35:54.213
But he can find a way to drop it. Bombing, man. Vomit bombing.

00:35:57.747 --> 00:36:03.707
All right, that's unpressurized, correct? Cop gets unpressurized or was it pressurized?

00:36:04.167 --> 00:36:08.427
No. It's unpressurized. You can pull that little thing down for the air and

00:36:08.427 --> 00:36:09.587
the vent. Remember the vent?

00:36:10.587 --> 00:36:14.567
A little door that goes in like this. All right, so you guys flew those airplanes

00:36:14.567 --> 00:36:19.347
all the way to Desert Shield, Desert Storm, and I'm guessing,

00:36:19.367 --> 00:36:21.327
what, you were at 14,000 feet?

00:36:23.127 --> 00:36:28.087
It varied. I mean, we followed the 2C-130s full of our troops and parts and stuff.

00:36:28.347 --> 00:36:32.787
And I'd say, yeah, probably 12,000 to 15,000 feet-ish is about right.

00:36:32.787 --> 00:36:36.407
You guys weren't breathing oxygen, were you? Yeah, oxygen left hand.

00:36:36.807 --> 00:36:40.407
Oh, okay. It has a G-suit and oxygen.

00:36:40.707 --> 00:36:44.847
So I would often use oxygen, especially flying at night. Look at that old thing.

00:36:45.627 --> 00:36:50.347
That's a busy cockpit right there. Yeah, I'm showing an old cockpit on the YouTube

00:36:50.347 --> 00:36:55.327
feed. That'll be on the, so there it was, the US slash episode slash 177.

00:36:56.207 --> 00:37:00.087
Yeah. See a photo of the cockpit. Yeah, it is busy. Holy shit.

00:37:00.087 --> 00:37:01.267
I feel like it's a feed light.

00:37:03.427 --> 00:37:08.127
How was it to, how did it fly? Was it nimble? Oh, yeah.

00:37:08.867 --> 00:37:13.107
Yeah, it was maneuverable. Yeah. Like a dirt bike with wings.

00:37:13.307 --> 00:37:15.887
That's right. There you go. That's a good way to do it. Really great airplane. Nice.

00:37:16.147 --> 00:37:18.127
Look, when I got orders, I was like, wait a minute.

00:37:18.787 --> 00:37:24.827
Once I settled down and got into it and applied myself and got to do cool things,

00:37:24.887 --> 00:37:28.407
I mean, I could think of times me and Ron here flying along the desert at 500

00:37:28.407 --> 00:37:32.107
feet doing tack turns just on a daily day training, ripping around at 100 feet.

00:37:32.647 --> 00:37:34.587
What a blast. I mean, it's funny.

00:37:35.147 --> 00:37:39.087
Yeah. It was highly aerobatic, but also….

00:37:41.565 --> 00:37:45.225
Hard to fly in the clouds, I think, because you got glass coming down your thighs

00:37:45.225 --> 00:37:49.265
and it wasn't a whole lot of help. And we'd fly that thing.

00:37:50.625 --> 00:37:54.525
We'd fly four hours straight in ink black and there's no autopilot.

00:37:54.665 --> 00:37:56.125
It's just you saw it. There's not much there.

00:37:56.565 --> 00:38:02.305
Well, hold on a second. Pigpen, I thought I heard you say there's no autopilot.

00:38:02.845 --> 00:38:07.065
Yeah, no autopilot. No. Well, if the guy in the back's any good, if you teach him how to.

00:38:08.125 --> 00:38:14.245
There you go. voice activated autopilot don't hit the fucking ground you want to fly?

00:38:14.425 --> 00:38:16.725
You want to fly? hell yeah you can fly hold this heading.

00:38:19.205 --> 00:38:23.105
I didn't even consider that I knew they didn't have any fancy avionics but holy

00:38:23.105 --> 00:38:26.445
shit no autopilot you should see when I got in the G1000 a year ago I'm about

00:38:26.445 --> 00:38:32.265
to have a stroke damn there she is look at that view,

00:38:34.625 --> 00:38:37.485
so oh man so you guys carry the

00:38:37.485 --> 00:38:41.465
centerline external fuel tank is that what i see yeah probably

00:38:41.465 --> 00:38:44.925
you must have had uh incredible

00:38:44.925 --> 00:38:49.565
loiter time i think we could stay six hours right dan yep we had we had four

00:38:49.565 --> 00:38:53.465
and a half hours on so we carried an oversized 300 gallon ferry tank we'd fly

00:38:53.465 --> 00:38:57.405
that thing from fatima to cubie point and that was cool you hold the tack end

00:38:57.405 --> 00:39:01.465
until it spins it clock mark the clock and you you wait wait 30 minutes,

00:39:02.645 --> 00:39:07.445
and then you shoot the approach into cubie anyway yeah things we do this airplane

00:39:07.445 --> 00:39:09.845
were great but I lost my train of thought, sorry.

00:39:10.585 --> 00:39:14.165
Yeah, because he started thinking about QB Point. We were talking about the

00:39:14.165 --> 00:39:15.785
center tank and what kind of loiter.

00:39:15.965 --> 00:39:23.345
We carried a 300-gallon tank. We could loiter four and a half, five hours, six hours.

00:39:23.605 --> 00:39:28.965
We carried that. We carried a Sidewinder. We carried one or two pods of Zuni

00:39:28.965 --> 00:39:31.725
Rockets, and we carried parachute flares.

00:39:32.525 --> 00:39:36.405
A lot of shit. The thing was pretty much gross. How many hard points under the

00:39:36.405 --> 00:39:38.445
wings did you guys have? Do you remember?

00:39:39.565 --> 00:39:41.945
Two under the wings, and then five in the sponsors.

00:39:44.105 --> 00:39:47.165
So outboard there to the wing tip. You see the drop tank there?

00:39:48.325 --> 00:39:54.465
And then the Zuni would go right there, the Zuni pod. OK. Right next to it there.

00:39:55.285 --> 00:40:00.465
Zuni's got those guys. Those are a blast. That tank there is a standard-sized tank.

00:40:00.705 --> 00:40:03.845
The big tank is ginormous. And then they would put the.

00:40:04.859 --> 00:40:09.159
There we go that's a good that's a good shot i flew i flew a mission how did

00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:13.179
you felix we flew that that one flew in desert storm ah okay yeah i'm probably

00:40:13.179 --> 00:40:17.379
i don't i probably flew it yeah i'm throwing various photos up on the youtube

00:40:17.379 --> 00:40:22.459
feed they'll all be on so there i was in the episode 177.

00:40:23.659 --> 00:40:27.319
Me and the redneck savant are cruising along at three o'clock in the morning

00:40:27.319 --> 00:40:30.679
and one of the simple pleasures in life that they will be 10 that i didn't really

00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:32.599
come to appreciate until,

00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:37.879
desert storm was the use of the relief tube and so

00:40:37.879 --> 00:40:40.679
at first you'd be very careful i'm going to pin the

00:40:40.679 --> 00:40:43.839
seat there's an ejection seat there and in the proximity of

00:40:43.839 --> 00:40:47.359
the you don't want something ripped off if you pull the handle you're

00:40:47.359 --> 00:40:50.219
using it but anyway

00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:53.219
it was like what it's kind of like having a cup of coffee having

00:40:53.219 --> 00:40:56.959
a break you know i'm going to go over here and hold for a few minutes and anyway and

00:40:56.959 --> 00:41:00.079
and one that we're flying it's pitch black solid just dark

00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:02.719
and i i'm doing my thing and next thing you know

00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:05.839
oh no what's the tube was not draining oh

00:41:05.839 --> 00:41:08.919
shit god damn it that's exactly i said tarred's

00:41:08.919 --> 00:41:11.599
like what what what what i go piss tubes clogged he goes

00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.419
hold on a minute so he's like ah shit so now

00:41:14.419 --> 00:41:17.999
we both have a clogged piss tube and we have another hour and a half to go so

00:41:17.999 --> 00:41:22.239
no eventually give up and kind of drop that to the floor and that airplane smelled

00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:27.659
like a urinal oh no it probably still does what it was is the turnbacks god

00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:32.539
bless these guys they're in And they're tweaking these motors and they're absolute, you know.

00:41:33.939 --> 00:41:34.979
Masters at their craft.

00:41:35.139 --> 00:41:39.739
They get triple prop things behind the props, but you know, those who spit,

00:41:39.899 --> 00:41:40.959
there's a spittoon right there.

00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:44.039
There you go. How about that?

00:41:45.099 --> 00:41:48.079
These are things you just don't think of, repeat. No.

00:41:48.419 --> 00:41:52.759
Right? So, who made the OB-10? Who manufactured it? What company?

00:41:52.959 --> 00:41:55.239
Oh yeah. Rockwell. Is that Rockwell?

00:41:57.370 --> 00:42:00.650
And it had two was it pt6 what were the motors pt6s

00:42:00.650 --> 00:42:04.150
no it was a garrett it was a gear i thought

00:42:04.150 --> 00:42:07.010
they were pt6s are you sure i'm quite

00:42:07.010 --> 00:42:10.190
sure okay these sixes

00:42:10.190 --> 00:42:15.330
and king airs and t34s yeah they're garretts well

00:42:15.330 --> 00:42:18.250
they're monsters same thing as

00:42:18.250 --> 00:42:25.550
in a merlin yeah yeah direct drive you had uh beta a capability of a prop so

00:42:25.550 --> 00:42:30.470
you could stop that sucker in a dime back it up too yeah back it up yep yep

00:42:30.470 --> 00:42:36.490
and because of the straight wing i'm assuming you had really nice short field performance.

00:42:37.690 --> 00:42:42.770
Did it have slaps and slaps or just flaps no just we didn't have some pretty

00:42:42.770 --> 00:42:46.610
cool flaps that have some you know vents sort of them but yeah i would yeah

00:42:46.610 --> 00:42:48.230
there's nothing in the leading edge now,

00:42:48.730 --> 00:42:53.370
We would practice landing on – in Pendleton, you did this thing.

00:42:53.370 --> 00:42:54.850
We practiced landing on roads.

00:42:55.110 --> 00:42:58.230
Yeah. And so, yeah, you'd take that thing and land it on a – Well,

00:42:58.250 --> 00:43:01.750
you'd fly the ball and just slam it right on there and hit reverse and stop it. Yeah.

00:43:02.490 --> 00:43:06.130
Yeah. The funny thing is when Desert Storm began, there was talk like,

00:43:06.190 --> 00:43:07.890
we've got to get ready for the boat. They're going to put us in the boat.

00:43:07.930 --> 00:43:09.010
I'm like, no, they're not going to take us.

00:43:09.410 --> 00:43:13.750
There's no way they let us near the boat. But we did anyway do some FCLP stuff,

00:43:13.830 --> 00:43:17.450
but there's no way they were going to let us land on their boat.

00:43:18.230 --> 00:43:21.310
Would have been we could have done it i'm sure but yeah well it

00:43:21.310 --> 00:43:24.070
would have been awesome but that would have been a long

00:43:24.070 --> 00:43:26.910
way to go a long way to go to work when you're not you

00:43:26.910 --> 00:43:30.190
know when you can't do 500 knots all right what so exactly when

00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:33.410
you're flying around tactically controlling you know

00:43:33.410 --> 00:43:36.270
for being for our control mission what what kind

00:43:36.270 --> 00:43:39.690
of speeds are we talking 150 knots is

00:43:39.690 --> 00:43:42.750
about it all you could do or less right pig yeah if

00:43:42.750 --> 00:43:45.610
i'm it depends what i'm doing if i'm honestly the thing would go

00:43:45.610 --> 00:43:48.370
we would run it wide open and i'd get

00:43:48.370 --> 00:43:51.330
about 180 knots to 200 knots if i'm

00:43:51.330 --> 00:43:55.310
if i'm looking to hang out for time i'm orbiting maybe i'm doing some tech a

00:43:55.310 --> 00:43:58.850
stuff i'm going to pull pull the condition levers back and i'm going to get

00:43:58.850 --> 00:44:04.450
get it quiet down to you know maybe 600 pounds an hour and it'll you know we're

00:44:04.450 --> 00:44:09.990
talking 120 130 knots just kind of run out of 15 000 feet but if i'm

00:44:10.130 --> 00:44:12.490
down low, the CAC's yanking and banking,

00:44:12.790 --> 00:44:14.970
it's conditioned liver's up and as fast as it'll go.

00:44:16.419 --> 00:44:24.239
So did you guys think when you guys got deployed, you know, Saddam Hussein invaded

00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:29.319
Kuwait, August of 91, you know, we are all, everybody's going to war.

00:44:30.039 --> 00:44:34.219
You guys are, you loaded your shit, you flew you over. Let's start with that.

00:44:34.339 --> 00:44:35.539
How long did it take to get over there?

00:44:36.639 --> 00:44:40.779
Oh, the excellent adventure was, what, about almost a month,

00:44:41.019 --> 00:44:44.139
three weeks. Holy shit. Yeah, it seemed like at least a month.

00:44:44.739 --> 00:44:48.099
It was great. It was the greatest aviation adventure of all time.

00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:53.239
So it was the Alpha to Delta Mod, pulled an airspeed indicator and put in a calendar? Holy shit.

00:44:54.319 --> 00:45:01.179
No, we broke down. We were a marine aircraft group. We were breaking down. Well, fair enough.

00:45:01.359 --> 00:45:05.319
Every place we stopped, somebody had broken down. Almost.

00:45:05.819 --> 00:45:11.299
Only the finest in Vietnam-era technology, right? We had 10 weeks in Lake and Heath, right?

00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:18.199
Yeah, I went down to London. Yeah, I cured the power of London.

00:45:18.819 --> 00:45:21.659
We need a new one. Okay.

00:45:24.419 --> 00:45:28.999
It was no rush to get there. Trust me. Yeah. Okay. Well, you knew you were going

00:45:28.999 --> 00:45:30.039
to be there when you got there.

00:45:31.419 --> 00:45:37.099
Wow. And then because you, so the F-18D,

00:45:37.399 --> 00:45:42.319
which was eventually going to replace your mission, And I think,

00:45:42.499 --> 00:45:46.299
what, we only had one squadron stood up and trained at the time?

00:45:46.399 --> 00:45:47.899
Yeah, we knew guys in a squadron.

00:45:48.339 --> 00:45:53.419
Yeah, that whole fast fact thing didn't pan out. They don't want to do that.

00:45:53.539 --> 00:45:56.099
They want to do cooler things, right? They want to do.

00:45:57.279 --> 00:46:00.779
Well, that goes back to, you know, what I was saying at the very beginning is.

00:46:02.839 --> 00:46:07.219
I'd like you guys to both talk a little bit about the mission and how long it

00:46:07.219 --> 00:46:12.779
took you to get even a little bit good at it because you're marking targets,

00:46:13.219 --> 00:46:15.619
you're trying not to hit the ground, you're flying at night,

00:46:15.839 --> 00:46:17.579
you're doing it low to the ground.

00:46:17.999 --> 00:46:23.679
And this was when I learned what you guys were doing, I became immediately terrified,

00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:27.559
like, oh, my God, people do that shit in airplanes.

00:46:28.539 --> 00:46:32.339
So let's talk about that. What a typical mission was like nighttime,

00:46:32.579 --> 00:46:36.519
daytime and the very well, I say typical, but you had so many.

00:46:37.889 --> 00:46:41.989
To include, here was, where did it go? I'm looking for it. Oh, there it is.

00:46:42.829 --> 00:46:46.709
Bago found this. Oh, yeah. That's the fun. You used to throw Marines out of

00:46:46.709 --> 00:46:49.749
the back of that damn thing, too. I forgot to do it in an airplane.

00:46:49.869 --> 00:46:50.629
That was fun. Yeah, me too.

00:46:51.009 --> 00:46:54.009
Look at that picture that I've got up there, Fig. Whenever you talk to recon.

00:46:54.009 --> 00:46:57.389
That guy is elbow to elbow, and they used to stick four Marines in there and

00:46:57.389 --> 00:46:59.269
throw them out the back. No, they didn't.

00:46:59.709 --> 00:47:02.269
Yeah, it's crazy. That's a great, you got to do that, right?

00:47:02.669 --> 00:47:06.569
Yeah, yeah. You get 100 feet, and you pitch vertical. You go straight up.

00:47:08.109 --> 00:47:11.689
And they kind of wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. And you do a wing over. It's crazy.

00:47:12.169 --> 00:47:16.829
Well, I mean, I wouldn't do it if I was one of them. Because if you're low, you're 100.

00:47:17.029 --> 00:47:20.649
Then they drop at it maybe 300 or 400 feet. It's really low.

00:47:21.229 --> 00:47:26.449
I don't know how they're. They come out inverted. Yeah. And then they swing down. It's insanity.

00:47:27.569 --> 00:47:31.929
How to get a swing in the chute, you know? Holy shit. You talk to any SEAL or

00:47:31.929 --> 00:47:34.849
any recon, Daddy, and you tell them you're an OB-10 guy. They go,

00:47:34.869 --> 00:47:38.689
oh, it's the best jump there ever was. Because, I mean, it's a rock star.

00:47:40.549 --> 00:47:46.669
We never did it. The D, you couldn't do that because you had all this flir gear

00:47:46.669 --> 00:47:48.929
embedded in the tail cone for the weight and balance.

00:47:50.229 --> 00:47:54.629
But, yeah. So did you take off without the tail cone on? And they were just.

00:47:55.929 --> 00:47:58.709
They put a load master. They put a jump master in the back.

00:47:58.829 --> 00:48:02.609
And then four guys, like you said, you know, butt the belly button and a gunner

00:48:02.609 --> 00:48:05.229
strap. You can run it in. And we did it with two airplanes.

00:48:05.429 --> 00:48:09.769
We simulated tactical ingress into the Camp Pendleton range.

00:48:09.889 --> 00:48:10.849
And we'd come ripping in it.

00:48:11.329 --> 00:48:16.209
And then, you know, someone calls it. We both go up vertically and,

00:48:16.209 --> 00:48:20.629
you know, opposite direction hammerheads and aggress out the back. It's pretty cool.

00:48:21.189 --> 00:48:25.229
That sounds bad. If you're flying it. Yeah, if you're flying, that's actually.

00:48:25.529 --> 00:48:27.009
Not if you're jumping. Well, if you get caught in the tail boom,

00:48:27.149 --> 00:48:29.589
that's my big worries. If they get caught up in the boom.

00:48:30.169 --> 00:48:35.109
And I'm just like, if you hear our seats fire, you're dead. Because I'm not

00:48:35.109 --> 00:48:38.149
going to be – I won't be able to help you out if you ever – and there was never a problem.

00:48:40.769 --> 00:48:46.129
I can't remember that. Yeah, right. Static line from 100 feet or however high it is.

00:48:46.589 --> 00:48:50.009
And the thing runs at airspeed fast. I mean, you don't – I don't think you're at more than 1,000.

00:48:50.149 --> 00:48:55.349
I mean, you might get to 1,200 feet, and now you're kind of come over at 90

00:48:55.349 --> 00:49:02.609
knots and not get too slow and spin the thing. Because it's a bit of a drag queen.

00:49:03.689 --> 00:49:07.469
Yeah. Well, big, thick, straight wing. I get it. Yeah. Wow.

00:49:09.289 --> 00:49:09.769
Guns.

00:49:11.567 --> 00:49:15.667
We had toy guns, decorative guns, the M60s.

00:49:15.847 --> 00:49:20.247
Yeah, they're M60s. We had the M60s in our quadrant, and we finally took them

00:49:20.247 --> 00:49:24.767
out because they were – when we were in the Philippines, we got to shoot at

00:49:24.767 --> 00:49:25.987
the banners in the Philippines.

00:49:26.447 --> 00:49:29.787
Even when you hit a banner in the air, they're a worthless weapon.

00:49:29.927 --> 00:49:32.807
They don't work. So the point is they would jam up.

00:49:32.947 --> 00:49:36.087
We did have a 20-millimeter gun pod that could fit to the bottom.

00:49:36.207 --> 00:49:38.207
I got to shoot that a couple times at the CACs.

00:49:38.927 --> 00:49:42.227
But, you know, if you're making attacks with a cannon in an OV-10,

00:49:42.327 --> 00:49:43.447
I guess it's a different environment.

00:49:44.427 --> 00:49:47.047
Right. But, you know. Yeah.

00:49:48.507 --> 00:49:51.887
Yeah, you got control of those guys. The M60 was, they would jam.

00:49:52.107 --> 00:49:55.947
I mean, you'd shoot them and, you know, they would jam up.

00:49:56.227 --> 00:49:58.687
And there's four of them. Once they're jabbed up, now you've got a problem with

00:49:58.687 --> 00:50:01.527
the D-arm area. And you've got a lot of hot rounds. It's just a pain in the

00:50:01.527 --> 00:50:03.567
ass. We usually shot rockets.

00:50:05.067 --> 00:50:09.507
Mostly you know 7.6 you know the uh 2.75 that occasionally we get to do the zunis,

00:50:10.047 --> 00:50:12.927
and then we would we didn't fire the flare much because

00:50:12.927 --> 00:50:16.607
we use the flare a lot but we didn't do much lazing because before desert

00:50:16.607 --> 00:50:19.447
storm it took an active congress to get the laser range

00:50:19.447 --> 00:50:22.287
to turn anything on we just never did it and then

00:50:22.287 --> 00:50:25.207
over there we had to have detect wraps get them get them

00:50:25.207 --> 00:50:27.907
synced up for us but we didn't have the lasers by tracker so we

00:50:27.907 --> 00:50:31.107
had to assume the thing was boresighted no sense

00:50:31.107 --> 00:50:36.747
training like you fight huh yeah so so it

00:50:36.747 --> 00:50:39.687
took you about six months to get to the war the war

00:50:39.687 --> 00:50:45.467
hadn't started yet and i'm being facetious now so you you guys have been training

00:50:45.467 --> 00:50:50.147
like all of us back in the that period to you know we were fighting the russians

00:50:50.147 --> 00:50:54.887
so we were always using low altitude tactics and Suddenly you show up to the

00:50:54.887 --> 00:50:56.947
AOR over there and get in.

00:50:57.647 --> 00:51:01.827
Did you find out, oh, shit, you know, we can't do what we've been training?

00:51:02.167 --> 00:51:05.827
I mean, what? Yeah, our skipper got shot down. So that probably gave us the first clue.

00:51:06.287 --> 00:51:12.347
What I'd say is the first day of the war, we all were all we were we were operating as a squadron.

00:51:12.407 --> 00:51:16.167
VMO wanted to show up and we had, you know, we had split the load and they had

00:51:16.167 --> 00:51:17.927
more guys and crews. But anyway, we had our thing.

00:51:18.547 --> 00:51:24.147
And I remember the first day everybody was shocked and afraid on both sides

00:51:24.147 --> 00:51:28.007
I think I remember when the sun came up in the first morning me and some Cobra

00:51:28.007 --> 00:51:31.507
guard trying to make a hellfire work and it didn't work out very well we were

00:51:31.507 --> 00:51:35.787
just fumbling through a lot of stuff and the con was messed up but he turned his thing on.

00:51:36.667 --> 00:51:42.587
Yeah there was a lot of that so you know go ahead Felix I don't want to do all

00:51:42.587 --> 00:51:45.107
the time no no that was yeah.

00:51:46.946 --> 00:51:49.726
Yeah so so that for the day one of

00:51:49.726 --> 00:51:52.586
the war your skipper got shot down right yeah so that

00:51:52.586 --> 00:51:55.526
night we had noticed guys are coming back and they were saying

00:51:55.526 --> 00:51:58.266
hey we're all getting shot at because we were kind

00:51:58.266 --> 00:52:01.066
of down low because there wasn't no one shooting at us right

00:52:01.066 --> 00:52:03.966
later in the day people were getting shot at but at

00:52:03.966 --> 00:52:06.746
first no one was getting shot at so we had i remember we

00:52:06.746 --> 00:52:09.466
went to chow we all kind of sat down and had an informed meeting said guys you

00:52:09.466 --> 00:52:12.586
gotta be careful let's start flying higher and skipper

00:52:12.586 --> 00:52:15.306
and great white were already in the rack because they were had the first launch in the

00:52:15.306 --> 00:52:17.946
morning okay we're not in that conversation and i don't know they would

00:52:17.946 --> 00:52:21.566
have mattered but i think they were probably seven eight

00:52:21.566 --> 00:52:24.446
thousand i don't know how high they were but they were they were like lead the

00:52:24.446 --> 00:52:29.286
harriers in follow me you know and they were uh i guess right in the envelope

00:52:29.286 --> 00:52:34.366
so that got us to uh we lifted things up considerably i would spend i mean i

00:52:34.366 --> 00:52:38.346
was often up at 18 000 feet you know now if you're doing actual if you're doing

00:52:38.346 --> 00:52:39.606
actual fact a work you have to be

00:52:39.706 --> 00:52:45.106
of lower but a lot of the time at night especially we were you know a6s from

00:52:45.106 --> 00:52:49.326
the ship or whatever we'd be checking into our area and we would approve grid

00:52:49.326 --> 00:52:53.066
squares that kind of stuff so sometimes it where there wasn't much direct control

00:52:53.066 --> 00:52:55.906
and it's more high level stuff high altitude,

00:52:56.686 --> 00:53:02.266
i mean the the the brits got hammered right the tornado guys yeah yeah they

00:53:02.266 --> 00:53:06.946
get they get it hard they get it hard so kind of glossed over it there so yeah

00:53:06.946 --> 00:53:10.766
your skipper and you called him gray waves was guy hunter got shot down and

00:53:10.766 --> 00:53:14.526
taken pow and i think it took six or eight weeks to get them back.

00:53:15.942 --> 00:53:21.302
Were they in the clink with Bart? Yeah. With Bart? Yeah. Yeah. Right.

00:53:21.962 --> 00:53:27.702
Skipper was a senior officer for a while. Yeah, they were, yeah, that was a bad day.

00:53:27.942 --> 00:53:32.902
Yeah, he got, yeah, he got, the Skipper got, he got beat up real bad,

00:53:33.082 --> 00:53:34.202
messed up his whole face.

00:53:34.362 --> 00:53:38.342
I mean, they had, the rifle butted him in the face. We also had a, he had an ejection.

00:53:38.482 --> 00:53:42.582
He tells a story when he, you know, they got hit and he's a Cobra guy.

00:53:42.582 --> 00:53:47.342
So for what it's worth, he was new to the new to new to ejector seat flying.

00:53:47.642 --> 00:53:51.842
And he commented that, you know, you get the temporal distortion, right?

00:53:51.882 --> 00:53:56.722
He pulls the handle and, and OB-10 is like the fastest seat in the inventory, right?

00:53:56.742 --> 00:54:00.782
It goes 0.4 second back seat or 0.4 the front seat. It's fast.

00:54:01.062 --> 00:54:05.222
He says he pulls it. He pulls the handle and he's waiting and he's waiting.

00:54:05.422 --> 00:54:08.602
And here's, here's guy go out. He's like, he's still waiting.

00:54:08.742 --> 00:54:10.662
He's still waiting. He's like, what's going on? He looks down.

00:54:12.582 --> 00:54:17.482
And if you look back any of those videos he's one of the POWs of his head because

00:54:17.482 --> 00:54:21.422
he really messed up his neck muscles so yeah,

00:54:23.302 --> 00:54:28.822
and we've heard that before from guys that have ejected it like oh my god the

00:54:28.822 --> 00:54:31.682
seat's not going to work even though shit's happening so fast,

00:54:32.322 --> 00:54:36.702
everybody's got it's funny you say that either I remember every nanosecond or

00:54:36.702 --> 00:54:39.642
I woke up in a parachute I wouldn't know either,

00:54:40.922 --> 00:54:42.362
so is he still with us?

00:54:42.522 --> 00:54:47.322
I know we lost Guy Hunter awesome he still lives up in Seattle or someplace

00:54:47.322 --> 00:54:49.762
in Northwest I'd love to chat with him.

00:54:51.802 --> 00:55:00.542
I don't have his contact Rayman does Rayman's working on the same way we're

00:55:00.542 --> 00:55:02.922
working on you for the reunion oh yeah that's right.

00:55:05.202 --> 00:55:08.062
Soon we'll all be dead yeah,

00:55:10.055 --> 00:55:17.735
So walk us through a typical, so let's see, I know it was a fairly abbreviated

00:55:17.735 --> 00:55:20.255
air war. Walk us through a typical day.

00:55:20.515 --> 00:55:25.335
What was it like? You said you were flying six off one, which really you weren't off.

00:55:25.415 --> 00:55:28.475
You were that duty officer for the day, squadron duty officer.

00:55:28.635 --> 00:55:30.195
So what did that look like?

00:55:30.655 --> 00:55:34.335
I know you said some guys were knights, some guys were. Yeah,

00:55:34.435 --> 00:55:35.715
so we were putting the knights.

00:55:35.935 --> 00:55:39.775
We had a pretty good routine. And so if I was a night guy, I would fly anywhere

00:55:39.775 --> 00:55:43.195
from sun down to sun up and maybe some pinky time on either end.

00:55:43.475 --> 00:55:47.175
Wow. And so I'd know what time slot I was going to do.

00:55:47.655 --> 00:55:53.855
I'd know – I mean, we all flew 25 to 28 missions. So it gets into a good routine.

00:55:54.035 --> 00:55:56.815
You know the area very well. The basic premise is I know what time I'm going

00:55:56.815 --> 00:56:00.055
to fly like any other thing. You're going to, you know, go to child,

00:56:00.155 --> 00:56:01.855
go PT, whatever you'd normally try to do.

00:56:02.555 --> 00:56:06.315
Sleeping during the daytime was, of course, a challenge. And then I think we

00:56:06.315 --> 00:56:08.075
would go to ops for a brief.

00:56:08.275 --> 00:56:12.595
We would go to talk to the intel guys who would tell us. I just stopped listening

00:56:12.595 --> 00:56:13.895
because it was such a gloomy story.

00:56:15.075 --> 00:56:18.055
And then walk to maintenance control, sign like an airplane.

00:56:18.215 --> 00:56:21.815
And then I call it the long walk from maintenance control down,

00:56:21.935 --> 00:56:22.735
you know, grab your flight gear.

00:56:22.855 --> 00:56:26.895
You walk out to the flight line and saddle up and go. I mean, it was very routine.

00:56:28.135 --> 00:56:31.955
You guys go out as a section to go to combat? No, we didn't. Or do you go single ship?

00:56:32.255 --> 00:56:36.335
We talked about that. We flew single ship. We trained in everything we did,

00:56:36.375 --> 00:56:37.555
and we talked about that.

00:56:38.195 --> 00:56:42.875
One of the reasons was we had to cover the clock, and I think that's why,

00:56:42.955 --> 00:56:44.675
because of the bandwidth we had.

00:56:44.875 --> 00:56:50.435
And I guess, I don't know, we talked about that because we trained all the time

00:56:50.435 --> 00:56:53.815
as a flight or two, but during Desert Storm, we flew a single ship.

00:56:54.975 --> 00:56:59.595
Okay. Wow, that seems… Train like you're flying.

00:56:59.995 --> 00:57:04.195
Well, yeah, and you lose your mutual support. Yeah. So, you know,

00:57:04.295 --> 00:57:05.375
you feel like you're naked, probably.

00:57:06.815 --> 00:57:10.175
Well, yeah, I mean, it's hard to...

00:57:12.153 --> 00:57:15.833
The other thing, though, is when you're in a position where you're working the

00:57:15.833 --> 00:57:18.653
same area over and over every day and you get to know all the guys on the ground,

00:57:18.673 --> 00:57:22.533
you have the ATO in the back, you can dial for dollars.

00:57:22.793 --> 00:57:28.633
So it isn't like I can do more with a good backseater who knows what's coming

00:57:28.633 --> 00:57:33.073
up in the queue in the ATO versus some guy trying to hold on my wing.

00:57:33.173 --> 00:57:37.613
I just think it's more of, I guess, a better resource spread.

00:57:37.753 --> 00:57:40.413
And it's hard to say. I think most fact work is done single ship.

00:57:41.533 --> 00:57:46.413
I think Vietnam era we're like a follow on to the Vietnam era that push me pull

00:57:46.413 --> 00:57:49.593
you Obi-Wan or whatever that thing was I think they,

00:57:51.593 --> 00:57:56.913
operated singles also I don't think they were we would do the section stuff

00:57:56.913 --> 00:58:00.413
that we would do would be if we're going in and doing for instance escorts we

00:58:00.413 --> 00:58:02.793
do helo escorts all the time we might do vehicle escorts,

00:58:03.393 --> 00:58:07.593
so there are plenty of missions where we'd go as a section maybe bring in dropping

00:58:07.593 --> 00:58:12.853
the guys out of the back But the FACA mission is what it is.

00:58:14.993 --> 00:58:21.133
Okay. And so would you describe the FACA mission, if you would,

00:58:21.133 --> 00:58:23.413
a little bit? What is it those guys are doing?

00:58:23.593 --> 00:58:30.073
And you said, you know, a good one is obviously very helpful and very resourceful.

00:58:30.273 --> 00:58:32.693
And a bad one probably just made your job harder.

00:58:33.053 --> 00:58:35.473
What constituted a good FAC?

00:58:36.373 --> 00:58:41.173
A good fact, and I'll let Felix, you could add in your piece.

00:58:41.393 --> 00:58:46.653
I can say that there was never, for instance, a blue-on-blue kill when OV-10 was on station, right?

00:58:47.573 --> 00:58:51.973
Forward air control, close air support, as you guys know, is dangerous stuff.

00:58:52.813 --> 00:58:56.793
And coordinating everything from putting the bombs on target,

00:58:56.953 --> 00:58:59.193
the right kind of bombs on target, going in the right direction,

00:59:00.093 --> 00:59:02.513
deconflicting the artillery guys.

00:59:02.513 --> 00:59:08.893
There's a lot of shit going on, and so you have to be able to compartmentalize,

00:59:09.033 --> 00:59:14.433
and you have to rely on your back. I think it's a two-man job. I do believe that.

00:59:16.533 --> 00:59:20.353
And you have to have a situation awareness, right, Felix?

00:59:20.533 --> 00:59:23.553
You've got to have a good essay to know what to look for and know what to do

00:59:23.553 --> 00:59:26.633
and when because you're switching back and forth, talking to guys in the ground.

00:59:27.553 --> 00:59:30.453
But there is also a flow to it. You guys have done it. Like from your end,

00:59:30.653 --> 00:59:32.713
I mean, you've worked with it. But you tell me what's a good fact.

00:59:32.853 --> 00:59:35.393
You're on a range and someone's there controlling you. You're on the air or on the ground.

00:59:35.993 --> 00:59:40.293
If they give you what you want, it should be a referee. You should even know I'm there.

00:59:42.284 --> 00:59:45.324
Yeah, I'd say that's fair. I'm just trying to think, you know,

00:59:45.404 --> 00:59:49.704
we didn't do that with a guy in the back seat trying to do that job.

00:59:49.824 --> 00:59:53.784
I can't imagine you're trying to fly the airplane, not hit the ground,

00:59:53.804 --> 01:00:00.884
and help him get eyes on what he needs to get eyes on and have enough SA to

01:00:00.884 --> 01:00:03.584
go, who's he trying to talk to, what is it he's trying to do.

01:00:03.684 --> 01:00:06.704
I mean, I imagine the same thing is true of the pilot.

01:00:07.624 --> 01:00:12.684
A good pilot could make a fat-gaze job really easy. and a guy who's picked up

01:00:12.684 --> 01:00:16.584
is just making his life miserable no matter how good he is.

01:00:17.144 --> 01:00:21.164
It's like there's mission command or whatever tactical command of a mission

01:00:21.164 --> 01:00:23.384
or a hop can come from either seat.

01:00:23.604 --> 01:00:26.484
And so there's some backseaters that really have their shit together.

01:00:26.484 --> 01:00:29.104
My job is to put the airplane where they want it. That happens too.

01:00:29.424 --> 01:00:36.144
It's really about coordination because, and it's also, I think it was great

01:00:36.144 --> 01:00:41.224
that we often flew with the same people because you become, you pick up the

01:00:41.224 --> 01:00:43.004
habits and you see you know what to expect,

01:00:43.624 --> 01:00:46.484
because it's important when you're in a high workload environment you know,

01:00:47.664 --> 01:00:52.784
you said flying with the same people did you mostly do that? you teamed up?

01:00:53.764 --> 01:01:00.664
Only during the war during the war we teamed up with a backseater yeah I had

01:01:00.664 --> 01:01:02.784
Beanie in the back who were you flying with?

01:01:03.684 --> 01:01:07.604
TARD oh you're flying with TARD redneck savant.

01:01:10.904 --> 01:01:14.904
This guy was a gunny and then was a Mustang and came through.

01:01:16.464 --> 01:01:20.504
Salty dude. He's a great American. That's awesome.

01:01:22.064 --> 01:01:28.064
I call him the rednecks of one. He's an Auburn boy. Probably the smartest guy.

01:01:28.264 --> 01:01:30.864
One of the smartest guys I've ever met. He's up there with Felix.

01:01:31.144 --> 01:01:32.684
We would play chess every day.

01:01:32.984 --> 01:01:36.064
The whole tent full of jarheads played chess. He never once lost.

01:01:37.124 --> 01:01:39.664
But he's also very you know,

01:01:41.222 --> 01:01:45.122
Very Southern. Wait, wait one. I'm suffering.

01:01:46.002 --> 01:01:49.402
Do we have enough fuel for this? Wait one. I'm suffering. Let me get my shoes off.

01:01:53.542 --> 01:02:00.142
Oh man. That's awesome. Oh, well, geez, we've been going at this almost an hour.

01:02:00.222 --> 01:02:02.282
It feels like easily eight or 10 minutes.

01:02:02.682 --> 01:02:07.522
Yeah. So I'll tell you what, what I'd like to do is take just a moment and thank

01:02:07.522 --> 01:02:10.902
the folks at masterclass who are helping to bring this show to you.

01:02:11.222 --> 01:02:14.762
And then we'll come back. I'd like to chat a little bit about our friend Flair

01:02:14.762 --> 01:02:18.682
and some of the hijinks that you guys got into, as well as the war stories.

01:02:21.622 --> 01:02:24.742
Whoa! I just discovered something really cool.

01:02:25.142 --> 01:02:29.522
I've been diving into Chris Voss's negotiating sessions on Masterclass.

01:02:29.702 --> 01:02:35.302
And this guy, former FBI hostage negotiator, teaches you how to get what you

01:02:35.302 --> 01:02:41.102
want without anyone realizing you're steering the ship. tactical empathy, mirroring, labeling.

01:02:41.582 --> 01:02:43.302
I actually tested it on my dog.

01:02:43.802 --> 01:02:49.022
He wanted three treats. I labeled his feelings, mirrored his little head tilt,

01:02:49.082 --> 01:02:53.502
and I walked away with two beers and he only got one treat.

01:02:54.042 --> 01:03:00.202
That's a win in my book. Hold on. You negotiated up from a dachshund? Yeah, yesterday.

01:03:00.942 --> 01:03:04.002
He had me open a jar three times before breakfast.

01:03:04.242 --> 01:03:08.042
Today, I used Voss's tactics. I came out ahead. For the first time,

01:03:08.182 --> 01:03:09.422
I beat him at his own game.

01:03:10.502 --> 01:03:15.942
Nice. Well, while Fig was trading with his dog like it's the UN Security Council,

01:03:15.942 --> 01:03:21.162
I've been having a blast with Penn and Teller magic and Steve Martin comedy on Masterclass.

01:03:21.682 --> 01:03:25.502
I used to do stage magic and hypnosis at state fairs.

01:03:25.902 --> 01:03:30.202
So Penn and Teller were right up in Wheelhouse. They started with some simple

01:03:30.202 --> 01:03:33.442
tricks, and then they throw in some advanced theory that It makes you go,

01:03:33.702 --> 01:03:36.162
wait, how did they even think of that?

01:03:36.982 --> 01:03:40.882
And Steve Martin, he makes starting stand-up sound easy.

01:03:41.082 --> 01:03:44.842
All you need to do is have the ability to notice stuff.

01:03:45.042 --> 01:03:49.002
And that kind of works out for me because people already laugh at me when I'm

01:03:49.002 --> 01:03:50.042
just sitting there quietly.

01:03:50.702 --> 01:03:55.282
It's because of your face. Well, I do have a face for radio. I get it.

01:03:55.902 --> 01:04:00.762
That's the thing. These sessions cover everything from negotiating to magic

01:04:00.762 --> 01:04:04.902
to comedy to leadership. and they're chopped into bite-sized sessions.

01:04:05.342 --> 01:04:10.942
So even if you're slammed, you can fit one in. I do mine on audio right before bed.

01:04:11.382 --> 01:04:16.142
Oh, yeah. That's a good way to go to bed. So here's the wild thing, though.

01:04:16.282 --> 01:04:21.202
The stats are that three out of four members are inspired every single time

01:04:21.202 --> 01:04:22.762
they watch Masterclass.

01:04:23.002 --> 01:04:27.202
That's not just hype. I watched Penn & Teller and immediately pulled off a trick.

01:04:27.362 --> 01:04:29.082
I made Fig's beer disappear.

01:04:29.542 --> 01:04:32.022
That's my last beer. I'm still grieving.

01:04:33.030 --> 01:04:39.370
Well, like Steve Martin says, comedy is tragedy plus time. You'll laugh about it later, Fig.

01:04:40.130 --> 01:04:43.670
All right. All right, folks. If you want to sharpen your skills,

01:04:43.850 --> 01:04:48.410
whether it's negotiating like Chris Voss, making things vanish like Penn and

01:04:48.410 --> 01:04:52.530
Teller, or cracking people up like Steve Martin, this is your chance.

01:04:52.950 --> 01:04:58.810
Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at

01:04:58.810 --> 01:05:01.790
masterclass.com slash so there I was.

01:05:01.790 --> 01:05:12.370
That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash so there I was all one word masterclass.com slash so there I was.

01:05:13.050 --> 01:05:16.150
Seriously, folks, we've had some fun with this, but we mean it.

01:05:16.450 --> 01:05:20.670
Masterclass is worth trying. It's one of those things that can actually make

01:05:20.670 --> 01:05:25.430
you better at something you care about and maybe even surprise you with something

01:05:25.430 --> 01:05:26.990
new you never thought you'd try.

01:05:27.450 --> 01:05:30.530
Go give it a shot. You'll thank yourself later.

01:05:32.230 --> 01:05:36.810
So we got over the war, got into the war. As I recall, the air war was relatively

01:05:36.810 --> 01:05:40.990
short, which is what prevented Fig and me both from ever getting over there.

01:05:41.110 --> 01:05:44.610
We were all loaded up, ready to hop on the airplanes and head that direction.

01:05:44.710 --> 01:05:47.630
The back clean up for everybody. And they said, yeah, don't bother.

01:05:47.910 --> 01:05:50.990
It's done. It's over with. So we never got there. At the time,

01:05:51.130 --> 01:05:55.230
it was disappointing. And in retrospect, it turned out to be a very good blessing in my life.

01:05:56.430 --> 01:05:59.790
So how long were you there after the air war?

01:05:59.790 --> 01:06:02.570
War i guess talk about a little bit about the

01:06:02.570 --> 01:06:05.290
highway to hell and were you guys

01:06:05.290 --> 01:06:09.610
involved in that or yeah the highway

01:06:09.610 --> 01:06:13.950
to hell i i would cut i would cut it drop a cut of the scene with kevin baker

01:06:13.950 --> 01:06:18.490
in animal house remain calm you know when the people are panicking in the streets

01:06:18.490 --> 01:06:23.210
and this is this is the very towards the end of this thing and a lot of guys

01:06:23.210 --> 01:06:26.930
are launching and there's not Not much stuff to drop on and people who want

01:06:26.930 --> 01:06:29.350
to go home and somebody got something going.

01:06:29.350 --> 01:06:33.510
I was working that day and I had this, you know, we would have sort of sectors,

01:06:33.670 --> 01:06:35.490
grids. Okay. And I had this grid.

01:06:37.478 --> 01:06:40.818
You'd like to have control of who's coming in and dropping bombs. It just went crazy.

01:06:41.058 --> 01:06:44.338
And guys were showing up and dropping bombs. And I just remember I had to get

01:06:44.338 --> 01:06:46.138
out of there because I was afraid I would get run over.

01:06:46.378 --> 01:06:51.218
It was absolutely – because no one had – I think it had been three weeks since

01:06:51.218 --> 01:06:52.178
anything had really happened.

01:06:52.638 --> 01:06:56.498
And so there was a lot of pent-up – I shouldn't say that. There were actual targets.

01:06:56.778 --> 01:06:59.858
And it was as far as I could see. Now, I know some guys, Ron,

01:06:59.978 --> 01:07:03.198
did you – some guys went up there after the war on the ground. I never did.

01:07:03.978 --> 01:07:06.678
Some guys went up to kuwait to drive around and i

01:07:06.678 --> 01:07:09.678
just had eod nightmares thinking about all

01:07:09.678 --> 01:07:13.618
the crap that was on the ground there but uh yeah yeah

01:07:13.618 --> 01:07:16.478
it was a big big mess yeah i i

01:07:16.478 --> 01:07:19.318
flew over it after it happened i mean we flew

01:07:19.318 --> 01:07:23.958
up there and it was it was looked it looked it was a horrible scene and then

01:07:23.958 --> 01:07:28.018
i don't know that was when they lit the the other big thing that happened there

01:07:28.018 --> 01:07:31.958
is they lit all the wells on oh yeah and so there was like you know when you

01:07:31.958 --> 01:07:34.618
went out it looked like It looked like a hellscape because you had all these

01:07:34.618 --> 01:07:36.538
fires with the black smoke coming up.

01:07:36.678 --> 01:07:40.998
And then, I mean, everywhere. Because I think just about every oil well they had there was burning.

01:07:41.638 --> 01:07:45.038
Yeah, it depends on when the wind was blowing. Some days it blew skies.

01:07:45.098 --> 01:07:49.298
The next day it's 200 overcast and oil and smoke. And you'd launch and fly through

01:07:49.298 --> 01:07:52.958
it and all over the airplane. It was nasty stuff. Yeah.

01:07:54.418 --> 01:07:57.618
I bet. Holy shit. It's cold and shitty.

01:07:58.018 --> 01:08:04.318
And winter in Saudi Arabia is not a pleasant time. It is not. It's cold and nasty.

01:08:05.938 --> 01:08:09.418
So how much longer did you guys stay? When did they pack you up and start sending

01:08:09.418 --> 01:08:13.738
you back states on? We sat around on that base for probably six weeks, I'll bet you.

01:08:14.258 --> 01:08:17.398
We were hoping they let us fly home, and they almost didn't. No.

01:08:18.178 --> 01:08:20.538
They craned them on a ship. It would have been so great to come home and come

01:08:20.538 --> 01:08:22.738
in for the break. That's all I wanted to do was fly home. We didn't.

01:08:23.818 --> 01:08:26.358
So they put us on our 747, and we flew home.

01:08:27.251 --> 01:08:30.591
Okay. Wait, you got to come back on a 747?

01:08:30.671 --> 01:08:34.931
I thought I came back on a 141 or something, and it was like I was stuck in

01:08:34.931 --> 01:08:38.731
the back of – wait, how did you – I might have come – maybe I came back earlier.

01:08:39.571 --> 01:08:43.711
Did you come over with any of the POW stuff or no? No. A lot of guys – I don't

01:08:43.711 --> 01:08:46.451
think I stayed six weeks maybe. Maybe I left a little earlier.

01:08:47.271 --> 01:08:51.731
I don't know. I got on – we were on a 747. I remember watching Home Alone laughing my ass off.

01:08:52.131 --> 01:08:57.431
It was funny. They were saying, like, 0-4s and E-9s board first.

01:08:57.591 --> 01:09:00.111
And I was like, oh, I don't want to get a shitty seat. And all these knuckleheads

01:09:00.111 --> 01:09:02.331
ran up to the very top of the 747.

01:09:02.971 --> 01:09:04.391
And first class was wide open.

01:09:05.131 --> 01:09:08.471
And I remember they served us. We landed in Ireland on the way over.

01:09:08.911 --> 01:09:13.011
And they were waiting for us, an airplane full of Marines with just pints of beer.

01:09:13.371 --> 01:09:16.511
And by the time we got over to the North Atlantic, the heads were overflowing.

01:09:16.691 --> 01:09:19.851
And people were puking in the aisles. But it was a little great ride home.

01:09:21.071 --> 01:09:26.491
That's okay. Irish serving the Marines beer? That sounds like a beautiful thing. Holy shit.

01:09:27.751 --> 01:09:30.911
So was Flair, who went home with Flair?

01:09:31.711 --> 01:09:35.251
Well, Flair was with us the whole time. So the Flair stories were,

01:09:35.251 --> 01:09:39.591
I remember when we showed up in Greenland.

01:09:40.711 --> 01:09:45.331
And so Flair was on my wing often, and we were in these new SLEP airplanes.

01:09:45.511 --> 01:09:50.191
And it's the D, but you can imagine it's got a little bit different checklists

01:09:50.191 --> 01:09:51.571
and digitals, buttons and stuff.

01:09:51.711 --> 01:09:53.971
And I was always rushing him to hurry up, hurry up, hurry up,

01:09:54.051 --> 01:09:55.251
hurry up. I was giving him grief.

01:09:56.111 --> 01:10:02.831
But we had to go from – so we left Brunswick, wherever it was,

01:10:03.231 --> 01:10:07.071
and then off to Iklut, you know, that weird ice station zebra kind of place.

01:10:07.191 --> 01:10:09.251
And then from there we hopped over to Saundersdom.

01:10:09.671 --> 01:10:13.291
And when we got there, it was like the Swedish bikini team was waiting for us.

01:10:13.731 --> 01:10:16.791
You know, there were all these kids from Greenland or wherever,

01:10:17.711 --> 01:10:24.311
Nordic women and young kids all over the place. And so Flair lobbied very aggressively

01:10:24.311 --> 01:10:27.051
that the weather looked kind of rough at Keflavik.

01:10:27.171 --> 01:10:30.551
And we really consider holding over here for weather.

01:10:31.771 --> 01:10:33.131
And Kipper agreed.

01:10:35.011 --> 01:10:38.791
I'm shocked there was gambling going on in that casino. Holy shit.

01:10:41.131 --> 01:10:44.391
He wouldn't tell us anything. He was single at the time.

01:10:44.791 --> 01:10:48.831
Yeah, he was a ladies' man. There's no doubt about it. And I know I've told

01:10:48.831 --> 01:10:50.431
some version of this before.

01:10:50.611 --> 01:10:54.191
There's two people in my life and flair is one of them that two men that i've

01:10:54.191 --> 01:10:58.711
ever met that everywhere they went women just would write down their phone number

01:10:58.711 --> 01:11:03.071
and hand it to them it's like dude what are you doing so i don't know baby it's

01:11:03.071 --> 01:11:08.391
a gift well the other funny thing was i find it so crazy that,

01:11:09.049 --> 01:11:12.829
His beautiful daughter is marrying a musician, a saxophone player,

01:11:12.889 --> 01:11:17.289
no less, because Flair was always about – he would get really enthusiastic about

01:11:17.289 --> 01:11:21.669
things, and he just loved jazz, and he was going to learn how to play the sax,

01:11:21.849 --> 01:11:25.429
and he got a sax, and he could not play that thing.

01:11:25.929 --> 01:11:29.069
He brought it out to Cax once, and it was like, put that thing away.

01:11:29.209 --> 01:11:35.049
It sounded like a – It was an electronic one, though. It wasn't a real one,

01:11:35.049 --> 01:11:36.029
right? No, it was a real on sax.

01:11:36.369 --> 01:11:40.689
I thought it was electronic. I couldn't write it. The same guy that somehow calmed his way.

01:11:41.049 --> 01:11:45.109
When we got out, the airlines were not hiring, and that was fine. I was ready to go.

01:11:46.609 --> 01:11:50.249
And he found a way to get an interview with FedEx.

01:11:50.849 --> 01:11:55.649
And he did well in the interview, and they said, come and fly the simulator of an SFO.

01:11:55.749 --> 01:11:58.209
I was like, okay, cool. Now, this guy is a freaking OV-10 pilot,

01:11:58.249 --> 01:12:00.889
and he's not current or proficient.

01:12:01.349 --> 01:12:06.369
So he hops in the simulator, confident is all, and he says he was supposed to

01:12:06.369 --> 01:12:08.849
go, you know, launch to go to this, proceed to this heading,

01:12:09.489 --> 01:12:12.469
enter holding here at this point, and stay in a rate, whatever.

01:12:13.089 --> 01:12:16.949
And he just like, he said he'd never been in a full motion simulator. We didn't have a sim.

01:12:17.129 --> 01:12:21.329
We had a dumpster that went out in the backyard, you know, a couple times a year, went in motion.

01:12:21.589 --> 01:12:25.029
Anyway, so the point was he gets in the sim and the motion starts.

01:12:25.169 --> 01:12:27.129
He's like, holy shit. He's safe.

01:12:28.449 --> 01:12:33.449
The thing ran for about 30 seconds. Motion stopped and they escorted the mountain building.

01:12:34.029 --> 01:12:36.869
Because they thought he was an imposter. He laughed about it.

01:12:37.649 --> 01:12:39.769
He's a good pilot, but he's so funny.

01:12:41.109 --> 01:12:47.169
Yeah, he was. Yeah. Absolutely. Because, you know, that's the other thing. I didn't fly with him.

01:12:47.609 --> 01:12:53.109
I never saw the man get ruffled, though. He just was smooth.

01:12:53.809 --> 01:12:59.109
Well, he's like any good wingman. You don't need anyone to add stress, right?

01:12:59.369 --> 01:13:02.609
The other thing about Flair was, and I'll let Felix tell him,

01:13:02.609 --> 01:13:08.169
But he had this thing with food, really high-quality food. He called it quality.

01:13:08.589 --> 01:13:11.989
And so we're living in the middle of nowhere in this stupid soccer stadium.

01:13:12.776 --> 01:13:17.816
And first of all, he found an isolated special, like, royal bathroom that had

01:13:17.816 --> 01:13:20.936
literally golden fixtures and pearl, all this crazy.

01:13:20.956 --> 01:13:23.876
And he was, like, the only guy who knew about it in the whole soccer stadium

01:13:23.876 --> 01:13:25.336
where there was, what, 3,000 Marines.

01:13:25.976 --> 01:13:29.916
And then he had this constant supply of food, gourmet food.

01:13:30.776 --> 01:13:34.156
He'd always pull it out of a pocket someplace, and it was coming to him every

01:13:34.156 --> 01:13:35.396
– I mean, I couldn't believe it.

01:13:35.836 --> 01:13:39.056
Guys would be going off to the little PX that he said, I've been buying all

01:13:39.056 --> 01:13:43.756
this crappy food. I got plenty. He always had a supply chain coming in.

01:13:44.436 --> 01:13:47.836
He had it figured out. And he was so laid back.

01:13:48.696 --> 01:13:53.736
Dan knows this further than I do, but he was always like, there was that LL

01:13:53.736 --> 01:13:55.396
Cool J song, Going Back to Cali.

01:13:55.696 --> 01:14:03.556
And he was like, just when all the time, just randomly, it's like, Going Back to Cali.

01:14:03.936 --> 01:14:08.116
And then he would be, yeah, he'd do that, and then he'll do it on the intercom.

01:14:09.836 --> 01:14:15.596
Two days before the war, a war attack spread heading east on the border out here.

01:14:16.296 --> 01:14:19.556
Over the radio. I'm going back to Cali.

01:14:20.256 --> 01:14:25.936
Cali. Cali. Going back to Cali. And then he waits. I don't think so.

01:14:27.876 --> 01:14:32.696
I love that guy. He said, I just like him too. Oh, holy shit.

01:14:33.456 --> 01:14:39.856
I can see him doing it. this is a guy who ran for town council so he could get

01:14:39.856 --> 01:14:43.456
the permit to build his house because he was building a commercial zone,

01:14:46.156 --> 01:14:50.976
ran for town council and got elected so he could change the zoning and then resigned,

01:14:54.336 --> 01:14:57.796
well played well played sir, well played yeah.

01:15:00.636 --> 01:15:02.756
Crap let's see,

01:15:04.916 --> 01:15:08.136
i have one more question to ask oh no

01:15:08.136 --> 01:15:11.236
i already got it i already got it answer okay the guns the guns

01:15:11.236 --> 01:15:14.796
the guns on the airplane the 7.62 millimeter

01:15:14.796 --> 01:15:19.596
machine gun which wasn't really on the sponsor whether you need it or not right

01:15:19.596 --> 01:15:24.876
yeah well uh we'll tell you where to shoot your gun please right was that uh

01:15:24.876 --> 01:15:31.216
was that a easy airplane to to spot land land i mean yeah i I thought it would

01:15:31.216 --> 01:15:33.276
be an easier plane to fly because you got the, you know,

01:15:33.456 --> 01:15:35.936
the props there are great speed brakes. Yeah.

01:15:36.836 --> 01:15:40.976
Very responsive. It requires, you know, rudders. And it's a true stick and rudder

01:15:40.976 --> 01:15:42.576
airplane. You can feel it very much.

01:15:42.716 --> 01:15:47.156
And, yeah, it's easy to fly.

01:15:47.296 --> 01:15:50.656
As I mentioned before, in the clouds, you know, or, you know,

01:15:50.836 --> 01:15:54.556
with all that glass, because the canopy comes down to your thighs.

01:15:54.736 --> 01:15:59.696
There's a lot of, you can imagine you can get yourself some vertigo going there if you're in the clouds.

01:16:01.776 --> 01:16:06.916
Pretty easy airplane to fly on. So how many hours did you guys – how long were you in the squadron?

01:16:08.016 --> 01:16:13.436
I was in the – I checked into the squadron in 88 maybe.

01:16:13.916 --> 01:16:18.936
Anyway, I left the Marine Corps in 93, 92. So after the Gulf,

01:16:18.996 --> 01:16:23.096
I came back, and then the Air Force had shut down the OB-10.

01:16:23.416 --> 01:16:26.496
So they said, we're going to stand up a rag with the Cobras,

01:16:26.916 --> 01:16:30.876
HMT-303. So me and some guys went over, took some airplanes, and stood that up.

01:16:31.316 --> 01:16:34.616
And then six months later they said forget the whole thing and

01:16:34.616 --> 01:16:37.636
so i was up after that you know i had a chance to transition to

01:16:37.636 --> 01:16:40.316
some i mean guys in my i don't know if they offered you around

01:16:40.316 --> 01:16:44.176
but i could have gone flown horrors or harriers or whatever i had a good a good

01:16:44.176 --> 01:16:49.376
opportunity but i was just ready to go well yeah i didn't stay yeah i got it

01:16:49.376 --> 01:16:52.776
i think i came about 88 too i think we got there about the same time roughly

01:16:52.776 --> 01:16:56.296
the same time right when rob man had crashed right when I got there.

01:16:56.356 --> 01:16:57.736
Were you there before he crashed or after?

01:16:59.276 --> 01:17:04.656
Is that the big bear crash or no? It was after that because I had not He crashed

01:17:04.656 --> 01:17:06.476
down in the Philippines, right? Where did he crash?

01:17:06.676 --> 01:17:10.356
No, this is the one that was out in the Borrego. You must have showed up after.

01:17:10.516 --> 01:17:15.676
I was after, yeah, because I wasn't around for that. Was that the VMO2 where the doc.

01:17:16.944 --> 01:17:20.124
Ejected? We never had a dock ejected, I know.

01:17:20.424 --> 01:17:25.584
No, that was some weird thing. We had a couple sad mishaps.

01:17:25.824 --> 01:17:30.464
One was, we don't know what happened. The most recent one was a guy went up

01:17:30.464 --> 01:17:32.684
a box canyon and couldn't get out.

01:17:32.904 --> 01:17:37.344
But most of the reasons their planes in the military crash are fairly common.

01:17:37.704 --> 01:17:42.324
If you flew it safely, it could get hairier when it's really heavily loaded out of 21A on Palms.

01:17:42.464 --> 01:17:45.784
And boy, if you lose an engine, the book says you can fly that way well we'll

01:17:45.784 --> 01:17:49.064
see but uh you know if you're smart about it and

01:17:49.124 --> 01:17:51.824
we're and wear your earplugs in your helmet someone told me i'm glad

01:17:51.824 --> 01:17:55.304
i did because those are some loud loud engines they

01:17:55.304 --> 01:17:58.244
really are prop tips are

01:17:58.244 --> 01:18:04.704
right at supersonic so you know let's just explain what

01:18:04.704 --> 01:18:09.104
a box canyon is if you would please sir our listeners well this

01:18:09.104 --> 01:18:11.984
happened you know not far from palm springs there's

01:18:11.984 --> 01:18:14.784
a place called banning pass it's sort of a valley that

01:18:14.784 --> 01:18:19.784
goes from the desert to the ocean and these guys were flying in in those mountain

01:18:19.784 --> 01:18:24.264
areas and were flying up these different canyons and you know b10 is a high

01:18:24.264 --> 01:18:29.564
performance airplane but it's not like an f18 or a you could just stand on its

01:18:29.564 --> 01:18:32.804
tail and fly out so they were they flew into an area of terrain.

01:18:33.324 --> 01:18:37.744
That was rising faster than the airplane could and they they got to where they

01:18:37.744 --> 01:18:41.264
couldn't recover and they ejected and didn't survive.

01:18:41.504 --> 01:18:46.724
So it's a fundamental thing around mountain flying is you always have to be thinking for a way out.

01:18:46.824 --> 01:18:50.484
Like if you're flying up a valley, they taught us always be on one side.

01:18:50.484 --> 01:18:55.464
So if I have to turn out, I can do that versus, you know, having no alternatives.

01:18:55.624 --> 01:18:58.844
And so a lot of guys who fly military airplanes don't run into that situation

01:18:58.844 --> 01:19:01.664
because you have lots of power. I'm sure in a Harrier, you got plenty of power.

01:19:01.924 --> 01:19:04.624
In A-4, we did. But in that airplane.

01:19:06.563 --> 01:19:12.043
Yeah. And that incident, Flair was was on the I guess he was assigned to be

01:19:12.043 --> 01:19:14.223
on the investigation team. He had to go up there and invest.

01:19:14.523 --> 01:19:20.923
Now, as laid back and unflappable as Flair was, he was he was angry.

01:19:21.143 --> 01:19:24.983
I mean, he was still, you know, he was that made him so angry to talk about it.

01:19:25.183 --> 01:19:28.823
He was so angry. I've never seen I never saw Flair get angry like he's always

01:19:28.823 --> 01:19:34.583
cool and laid back. But if you brought that up, man, he couldn't stand it because

01:19:34.583 --> 01:19:37.983
I think he thought that was really a dumb thing to do.

01:19:38.363 --> 01:19:41.523
And I think he knew the people. I don't know if I knew.

01:19:41.763 --> 01:19:44.663
I don't know if I know Sergio. Did I know Sergio? Yeah, you knew Sergio.

01:19:44.863 --> 01:19:48.443
Okay. I don't remember him because it happened not long after I got there,

01:19:48.523 --> 01:19:51.283
I don't think. Okay. I think it was not. Or maybe I was deployed.

01:19:51.443 --> 01:19:54.523
I went on two back-to-back debts to Okinawa. Yeah, you probably know what happened.

01:19:54.683 --> 01:19:57.463
Yeah, so I might have missed that. We were both in Okinawa when that happened.

01:19:57.803 --> 01:20:01.183
Yeah. So did they take... Squadron minus.

01:20:01.583 --> 01:20:05.463
Did they take... Was it just from your squadron or did they take guys from Key One?

01:20:05.483 --> 01:20:10.543
So for Desert Storm, they took six airplanes, I think, seven crews, if I'm not mistaken.

01:20:10.823 --> 01:20:15.143
And they just picked the crews and they said... So they took an attachment because

01:20:15.143 --> 01:20:21.003
they had to maintain coverage of Pendleton as well as Okinawa.

01:20:21.343 --> 01:20:24.723
So the whole squadron didn't go. I want to say maybe half the squadron went.

01:20:25.543 --> 01:20:29.903
Yeah. So I talked to Joel about coming on with you guys, and he said he was

01:20:29.903 --> 01:20:33.483
talking about being over at Subic during all of this.

01:20:33.623 --> 01:20:37.923
So was he in the dead over there? Was he VMO2 as well? Yeah, those guys.

01:20:38.863 --> 01:20:43.263
So all the guys in the squadron then went one of two ways, either the desert

01:20:43.263 --> 01:20:49.343
or the PI, and a couple of dudes left behind. But basically everyone was gone. It was split in two.

01:20:49.803 --> 01:20:52.883
Had to go to the PI and spend time there. That was terrible.

01:20:52.983 --> 01:20:57.743
Well, you know, that was the first war. There were people who were excited to

01:20:57.743 --> 01:20:58.943
get over there, I'll say that much.

01:20:59.323 --> 01:21:04.383
And that's all when Pinatubo was going off, too.

01:21:04.663 --> 01:21:07.323
So, you know, nothing else going on. Yeah. Keep it interesting,

01:21:07.383 --> 01:21:11.303
I guess. The PI was great. I mean, some of the best-selling ever.

01:21:12.003 --> 01:21:15.343
It's beautiful, beautiful countryside over there. Yeah. Yeah.

01:21:17.224 --> 01:21:20.664
Although those monkeys and bats were a bit. You'd go running.

01:21:20.844 --> 01:21:23.644
You would go running. You probably did that route that me and Duke used to run

01:21:23.644 --> 01:21:26.744
that a lot. There's some route you'd run down through. All the way up. The monkeys.

01:21:28.024 --> 01:21:32.864
In the mountain, in the hills. And you guys first saw the bat during the fall

01:21:32.864 --> 01:21:34.284
in November, these bats.

01:21:34.644 --> 01:21:36.924
Right? You see the bats in the cube? I don't remember.

01:21:37.704 --> 01:21:41.104
Eight foot wingspan bats. Holy shit. They were monsters.

01:21:41.464 --> 01:21:45.584
That's a pterodactyl. They're fruit bats. And they live in the mountains in

01:21:45.584 --> 01:21:49.324
QB, wherever. And during the month of November, December, they migrate back

01:21:49.324 --> 01:21:52.244
and forth and they have to stop airplanes because you'll hit them and they're

01:21:52.244 --> 01:21:55.124
the size of a monkey. It's like the Wizard of Oz. It's the craziest thing.

01:21:56.664 --> 01:22:03.124
Yeah. Have a bat strike. Bat strike. It's like having a cat with wing strike. Yeah, exactly.

01:22:04.404 --> 01:22:08.504
And you guys talked about it. I just want to confirm you guys never did any

01:22:08.504 --> 01:22:11.464
carrier ops in the airplane, right? Not a new one.

01:22:12.444 --> 01:22:17.084
No, but didn't somebody, somebody did a test. Was it Ralph? Somebody did a test.

01:22:17.244 --> 01:22:18.504
Yeah, somebody did a test.

01:22:18.904 --> 01:22:23.764
Well, they flew them off. VM01 craned them on and flew them off routinely, right?

01:22:24.044 --> 01:22:27.704
But Pax River did landings with them. We never did. We went through a strike

01:22:27.704 --> 01:22:29.444
pipeline, of course, in the A4 and T2.

01:22:29.624 --> 01:22:34.364
But we did not have to land at night, thankfully, or live on a boat.

01:22:35.224 --> 01:22:37.384
Did that have a tail hook? No.

01:22:37.804 --> 01:22:42.864
No, they did. Did they do a special mod for the test landings they did?

01:22:43.464 --> 01:22:47.404
It seems like I remember them talking about that. No? So they just try to land it.

01:22:47.724 --> 01:22:50.624
Come on. You've got 30 knots, 40 knots coming over the nose.

01:22:50.624 --> 01:22:54.144
You go to full flaps. You wouldn't have any brakes.

01:22:54.924 --> 01:22:58.604
What's the landing speed at full flaps? What are your approach speeds?

01:22:59.124 --> 01:23:05.164
Well, typically, usually it would be half flaps, nine knots. Come in as fast as I can.

01:23:05.524 --> 01:23:08.224
Come in for the brake. Six feet around the turn.

01:23:09.404 --> 01:23:13.804
Gear and flaps down to – An instrument approach might be 130,

01:23:14.144 --> 01:23:18.024
120, 130, but in a pattern, 105, no flaps.

01:23:18.284 --> 01:23:22.264
But I usually have flaps, 90 knots. I would never – I hardly ever did full flaps

01:23:22.264 --> 01:23:25.564
because you lose an engine in your hose. So typically I go half flaps.

01:23:25.764 --> 01:23:29.964
A lot of guys would do no flaps. We'd fly – Pendleton was a 5,000-foot runway,

01:23:29.964 --> 01:23:33.064
and we had a Fresno lens we'd fly off of.

01:23:34.004 --> 01:23:35.404
Very easy airplane to fly.

01:23:37.309 --> 01:23:41.969
Except when you were doing a mission. Yeah. Then it got busy.

01:23:43.349 --> 01:23:45.669
It did have a G-suit, too, believe it or not. Yeah.

01:23:47.169 --> 01:23:52.069
How many Gs would it pull? That straight wing would probably lay it on really quickly, too.

01:23:52.389 --> 01:23:57.269
It would. I think Huggy, were you there? Huggy, I think we were in Okinawa.

01:23:57.569 --> 01:24:01.829
He was doing some flight. He came back and something's warped,

01:24:01.869 --> 01:24:05.389
all warped. I think he pulled, it was maybe seven or eight.

01:24:06.989 --> 01:24:12.689
Flare did a little over G once he did I thought it was ugly maybe more than one of us,

01:24:13.609 --> 01:24:20.589
there's our boys flare there there's Tard and I don't kid on the left and Babar

01:24:20.589 --> 01:24:22.249
on the right yes that's it,

01:24:23.649 --> 01:24:32.949
there I was there I was yeah I think 6 G's I think it was I was talking about

01:24:32.949 --> 01:24:36.669
it the other day with a buddy of mine and that airplane if you're pulling six

01:24:36.669 --> 01:24:38.469
G's you're not pulling for a long time,

01:24:40.129 --> 01:24:44.209
you'll lose all your air speed you'll be flying around like a helicopter usually

01:24:44.209 --> 01:24:48.289
if you're yanking and banking on a lap course you're probably doing three,

01:24:48.469 --> 01:24:52.309
four G turns here and there but it's not like you're going to horn it or something.

01:24:55.489 --> 01:24:58.869
We had the same problem in the Harrier with no reheat you just weren't getting

01:24:58.869 --> 01:25:01.169
your energy back unless you had gravity on your side,

01:25:02.129 --> 01:25:05.569
he better pull this sucker it better be for a reason otherwise i'm out of airspeed

01:25:05.569 --> 01:25:13.509
and ideas yeah you know uh that's never good no altitude airspeed and ideas you need at least two,

01:25:15.629 --> 01:25:22.509
at all times at least two at all times right yeah i'm kidding so they had a

01:25:22.509 --> 01:25:25.929
stick in the back too okay yeah that's right you were saying you let them fly

01:25:25.929 --> 01:25:30.109
yeah hold this heading when we get there.

01:25:30.909 --> 01:25:37.989
Duke always wanted to fly. I know Rayman was a pilot. Rayman just retired from FedEx.

01:25:40.689 --> 01:25:44.369
Rayman was a backseater too? Yeah, he was. He just retired as a check-airman

01:25:44.369 --> 01:25:45.949
captain over at FedEx. He got out.

01:25:46.589 --> 01:25:50.849
That's a great picture there. I found that one. You like that one? I just found that one.

01:25:52.469 --> 01:25:55.729
I don't know him, but he didn't look like that over the last 30 years.

01:25:58.392 --> 01:26:01.872
I used to always joke, he's like, you know, he just got hired to be a checker,

01:26:01.932 --> 01:26:04.992
do they let you talk in the radios? Because I wouldn't let him talk in the radios.

01:26:07.832 --> 01:26:13.092
He's a great American. He flies warbirds and all kinds of cool stuff. Oh, that's fantastic.

01:26:13.632 --> 01:26:16.092
Yeah, he really loved flying. I think he was...

01:26:16.792 --> 01:26:18.652
He's one of those guys that had his contract.

01:26:20.112 --> 01:26:26.072
The NAMI-WAMI got him. We had a kid like that, and I forget his name, but the same thing.

01:26:26.192 --> 01:26:29.032
He was a pilot, and NAMI-WAMI got him. and he wound up getting

01:26:29.032 --> 01:26:33.612
the nfo track and somebody

01:26:33.612 --> 01:26:37.572
ran into him later and he's like they were talking about the things they were

01:26:37.572 --> 01:26:41.972
doing in flight school and he found out the flight students were talking on

01:26:41.972 --> 01:26:45.392
the radio to get clearance take off land and they're like let you talk on the

01:26:45.392 --> 01:26:49.372
radio it's like oh dude they just tell us to squawk 7600 and take off.

01:26:50.992 --> 01:26:57.572
Talking on the radio we don't have nfos in flight school handling the radios for us man He's like,

01:26:58.472 --> 01:27:00.852
because that's all he basically got to do was talk on the radio.

01:27:01.152 --> 01:27:04.952
That took me some getting used to because we were trained as single-seat attack guys. Yeah.

01:27:05.392 --> 01:27:07.392
It's like, just don't touch anything back there, dude. Just,

01:27:07.532 --> 01:27:09.992
you know, and if you're going to puke, use it in the back.

01:27:10.252 --> 01:27:13.612
It took a while, but they were great to fly with.

01:27:13.752 --> 01:27:17.292
It was really, that whole Marine Corps air ground thing really comes together

01:27:17.292 --> 01:27:20.552
when you're working with these guys because it's a pretty interesting job that

01:27:20.552 --> 01:27:23.512
turned out to be way better than I thought it would be.

01:27:24.592 --> 01:27:29.192
All right, Pigpen, you show up at your squadron. You're a squadron pilot.

01:27:29.672 --> 01:27:32.632
What other jobs did you get right out of the gate?

01:27:32.992 --> 01:27:36.412
Because it ain't nobody just to be a squadron pilot. Oh, yeah,

01:27:36.552 --> 01:27:40.952
the shitty little job officer. So let's see. My first shitty little job was NBC officer.

01:27:41.692 --> 01:27:45.492
Oh, okay. That came into play years later when the scuds were coming in,

01:27:45.532 --> 01:27:47.272
but I wasn't then the NBC officer, thankfully.

01:27:47.592 --> 01:27:50.292
And that was at the National Broadcasting Corporation, folks.

01:27:51.432 --> 01:27:55.992
The scuds were plentiful in anxiety creating and then i was the,

01:27:56.916 --> 01:28:01.856
Yeah, I did your analysis. I did NBC. So NBC is nuclear, biological,

01:28:01.856 --> 01:28:03.856
and chemical. Your analysis.

01:28:05.916 --> 01:28:09.596
Nobody cares is NBC. Oh, there you go. The guns are in the air.

01:28:09.676 --> 01:28:10.656
They want to know where their masks are.

01:28:11.776 --> 01:28:17.336
And then I got into other flying jobs, you know, ops and real jobs after that

01:28:17.336 --> 01:28:19.056
bit of time. How about you, Felix?

01:28:19.576 --> 01:28:23.216
You know what? I'm trying to remember, like, what did I do? I don't remember

01:28:23.216 --> 01:28:25.096
doing anything but flying and working out.

01:28:25.596 --> 01:28:28.856
That's exactly how you want to do it he's that

01:28:28.856 --> 01:28:32.016
guy he's that guy i must i must

01:28:32.016 --> 01:28:34.756
have had a job i must have had any jobs but i don't

01:28:34.756 --> 01:28:38.316
remember well there

01:28:38.316 --> 01:28:43.916
you know every squadron had one of those guys i guess it was me i know i was

01:28:43.916 --> 01:28:47.876
that guy all i wanted to do was fly i tell you what man i i knew i was doomed

01:28:47.876 --> 01:28:52.676
i'd look at i'd look at a major go you stupid son of a gun you know i just I

01:28:52.676 --> 01:28:57.956
had this disdain for going off and being a fact or anything like that. I just wouldn't have it.

01:28:58.196 --> 01:29:02.436
I respect the guys who did. Don't get me wrong. Did you guys fly after the Marine Corps?

01:29:04.576 --> 01:29:07.716
I did a little bit. I was in the gliders, but I got out of flying.

01:29:08.536 --> 01:29:10.836
Airlines weren't hungry. I had an interview date at American,

01:29:10.876 --> 01:29:14.176
and it kind of petered out. I flew for a year in reserves.

01:29:14.916 --> 01:29:19.696
And then about five years ago, I started getting back into flying GA stuff. All right.

01:29:20.076 --> 01:29:24.356
Civil Air Patrol. What about you, Felix? No, I, so when I went through Beeville,

01:29:24.556 --> 01:29:30.356
I bought a plane, I bought a PA-12 from actually from my on wing that was my instructor.

01:29:30.796 --> 01:29:33.236
He, he sold me his PA-12.

01:29:34.239 --> 01:29:37.459
For twelve thousand five hundred dollars i guess

01:29:37.459 --> 01:29:40.079
that was a good that's a lot of money back back then yeah well it seems

01:29:40.079 --> 01:29:42.979
like but it actually was a good deal yeah it was a good deal back

01:29:42.979 --> 01:29:45.959
then too pretty good deal i think but no and i was

01:29:45.959 --> 01:29:52.879
flying out of uh my future wife's father's grass strip he had a pa-12 and a

01:29:52.879 --> 01:29:57.539
piper cub so i'm so i bought so i had a plane and i'm flying in beeville i'm

01:29:57.539 --> 01:30:00.819
just having a great time because i'm flying you know i'm flying flight school

01:30:00.819 --> 01:30:04.539
i'm at chase field And then I'm flying my own plane with my father-in-law.

01:30:04.859 --> 01:30:07.979
And that was a lot of fun. So I still had that plane. But when I got out,

01:30:08.139 --> 01:30:10.439
I got out right after Desert Storm.

01:30:10.559 --> 01:30:14.359
I got out like maybe four or five, six months after we got back.

01:30:15.019 --> 01:30:19.419
And I still had the plane, but it was in Beaville. I'm living in Dallas.

01:30:20.139 --> 01:30:24.559
And I don't have a good job, so I can't afford to keep that.

01:30:24.719 --> 01:30:27.499
So I had to sell it. And I haven't flown since.

01:30:28.039 --> 01:30:31.319
What was the N number? Do you remember? Yeah, 3218 Mike.

01:30:31.319 --> 01:30:34.279
And and i sold it to my it was i

01:30:34.279 --> 01:30:37.519
sold my plane to uh a club a

01:30:37.519 --> 01:30:40.479
guy a club out in midland i believe and

01:30:40.479 --> 01:30:43.099
they were then they were they i guess they still have it

01:30:43.099 --> 01:30:46.899
i checked on it maybe i don't know 10 or 15 years ago and they were still they

01:30:46.899 --> 01:30:51.279
still had it yeah so i guess it's still flying and the problem is i didn't want

01:30:51.279 --> 01:30:54.239
to just leave it sitting in a hangar down in bevo because it's no good for a

01:30:54.239 --> 01:30:58.519
plane so i i felt like it's like it's like you know you don't want to you don't

01:30:58.519 --> 01:31:01.939
let your baby die so you let get into somebody else.

01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:05.079
I haven't flown since 1991.

01:31:05.819 --> 01:31:08.959
It's registered at Slowfly LLC.

01:31:09.839 --> 01:31:13.279
Okay, that sounds like a different place but maybe they changed the name.

01:31:14.759 --> 01:31:18.619
You can't see a restricted view. People do that now but it's obviously an active

01:31:18.619 --> 01:31:21.779
airplane. That's kind of neat. Yeah, that is cool.

01:31:23.050 --> 01:31:26.970
That just became a thing. You could not have your name and address show up when

01:31:26.970 --> 01:31:30.110
someone ran your end number anymore. So that's kind of different.

01:31:30.510 --> 01:31:35.390
Yeah, so Felix married a Beeville gal.

01:31:35.670 --> 01:31:41.350
It was fun to meet her and chat with her at the wedding and find out all the

01:31:41.350 --> 01:31:46.090
people that she knew that I had met when I worked there when I was in high school.

01:31:46.290 --> 01:31:48.690
For the local hardware store and out on a ranch.

01:31:50.010 --> 01:31:56.530
I'm sorry. I think I missed something. And I had no idea you lived in Beaville, Texas. I did.

01:31:56.930 --> 01:31:59.730
The summer between my junior and senior year in high school,

01:31:59.730 --> 01:32:03.890
I worked at Burroughs Hardware Store in Beaville for a couple weeks.

01:32:03.890 --> 01:32:08.750
Then the foreman died on the owner's ranch.

01:32:08.850 --> 01:32:12.950
And I was the only guy with a driver's license. So I had to go pick all the

01:32:12.950 --> 01:32:16.490
laborers up every morning, go out and work on the ranch and come back.

01:32:16.710 --> 01:32:21.010
But hung out with some folks, learned some Texas living,

01:32:21.010 --> 01:32:28.050
doing the uh the oh gosh not the vfw it was a vfw dance but also the american

01:32:28.050 --> 01:32:31.430
legion dance you know friday night saturday nights that kind of stuff and yeah

01:32:31.430 --> 01:32:36.770
it was a hoot man i love texas i bought it i bought a pair of steer horns that

01:32:36.770 --> 01:32:38.750
i put on the front of my 68 impala.

01:32:42.870 --> 01:32:45.630
So yeah yeah me and me

01:32:45.630 --> 01:32:48.370
and repeat have probably one degree like it's

01:32:48.370 --> 01:32:51.810
at seven what six degrees of uh we

01:32:51.810 --> 01:32:54.690
get like a one degree because i think we can probably go one

01:32:54.690 --> 01:33:00.270
person and know everybody everybody in bville yeah bville's small and like my

01:33:00.270 --> 01:33:04.530
wife's from there she knows everybody so you name people and pete and linda

01:33:04.530 --> 01:33:10.070
were you know yeah you know darlene yeah new john well yeah new john west yeah

01:33:10.070 --> 01:33:13.690
well you know bugsy bugsy's wife was from bville,

01:33:14.579 --> 01:33:17.059
I didn't know Debbie was from B-Ville. No kidding. Oh, you know what?

01:33:17.119 --> 01:33:19.639
Hold on a second. Now, I'm pretty sure he was a B-Ville guy.

01:33:20.279 --> 01:33:24.799
Yeah, I went through with him. Yeah. Yeah. I never realized she was from B-Ville.

01:33:24.799 --> 01:33:27.059
That's where he met Debbie. Yeah. How about that?

01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:31.739
Who knew? Who knew? It's too funny.

01:33:31.739 --> 01:33:36.139
We can do a show on B-Ville flying because I heard Linda's dad was a,

01:33:36.399 --> 01:33:40.619
he got his license when he was like 60.

01:33:40.619 --> 01:33:43.679
And then he took off and flew to alaska and

01:33:43.679 --> 01:33:47.519
in the pa-12 and if you know that's just dangerous well he

01:33:47.519 --> 01:33:50.359
didn't know and any any his pa-12 had a

01:33:50.359 --> 01:33:53.699
had a he'd had the loran c put in his like

01:33:53.699 --> 01:33:56.639
the only he claims it was the only fabric playing

01:33:56.639 --> 01:33:59.539
with a loran c in it and they had to you know anyway it

01:33:59.539 --> 01:34:02.339
was he's got anyway yeah so there's he's

01:34:02.339 --> 01:34:05.119
there's a ton of flying stories i'm sure from lots of people

01:34:05.119 --> 01:34:08.279
from people but yeah it's now listen we

01:34:08.279 --> 01:34:13.619
we have to get you guys have to help us we got to get more ov10 guys to come

01:34:13.619 --> 01:34:16.599
out and tell stories because you're the first two and we've been doing this

01:34:16.599 --> 01:34:21.099
what two and a half years yeah oh rain man you get rain man it's three and a

01:34:21.099 --> 01:34:25.299
half years to do it rain man love to do it right right dan rain man would love it,

01:34:25.879 --> 01:34:31.979
you probably are i think well yeah so so some hygiene some uh liberty stories in subic or,

01:34:33.359 --> 01:34:36.599
Rikivik.

01:34:39.617 --> 01:34:41.957
I cannot speak of Subic.

01:34:46.837 --> 01:34:51.897
I'm trying to think of Subic. The biggest thing about Subic was the flying there was incredible.

01:34:52.137 --> 01:34:57.797
I mean, it was just flying down a freaking river and looking to the right and

01:34:57.797 --> 01:35:02.397
seeing like water buffaloes and grass huts with antennas.

01:35:02.597 --> 01:35:07.137
And then it was just crazy. It was like living. It was like going through the

01:35:07.137 --> 01:35:08.757
ancient times. the best flying ever.

01:35:09.677 --> 01:35:12.617
Can't complain about it. And the Liberty is what it is.

01:35:13.117 --> 01:35:15.857
Some guys love that stuff. I know some of the troops got in trouble.

01:35:16.097 --> 01:35:22.097
Everyone has their Subic Bay stories. I was lucky. I saw some interesting things, though.

01:35:22.397 --> 01:35:25.477
We'll edit that out, but that's all I can say. It's Subic Sea.

01:35:26.477 --> 01:35:29.657
Although Cutie Point really is a cool place to be, and I think that anybody

01:35:29.657 --> 01:35:34.037
who gets to the Pensacola Museum, there's a VMO2 plaque in there.

01:35:34.117 --> 01:35:36.157
In fact, I think Ladd's name's on that plaque.

01:35:36.797 --> 01:35:39.517
And maybe, Felix, you're on there, too. I'm almost sure.

01:35:40.817 --> 01:35:45.317
So the famous O-Club and the Cubie Point Air Station O-Club,

01:35:45.337 --> 01:35:48.557
they took it out and put it in the Pensacola Naval Aviation Museum.

01:35:48.797 --> 01:35:53.297
All the monkey pod wood plaques with everybody's name is up on there. If you can get there.

01:35:53.757 --> 01:35:58.937
It's a piece of history. I wonder, you know, I never thought to look for a VMO2

01:35:58.937 --> 01:36:00.257
plaque to see a flare. Oh, they're there.

01:36:01.637 --> 01:36:09.157
Just to be clear they disassembled the bar and reassembled it with the plaques

01:36:09.157 --> 01:36:12.777
and everything and you could have a beer there yeah.

01:36:15.777 --> 01:36:18.897
That's why you have to come to the reunion in Pensacola,

01:36:19.977 --> 01:36:26.957
my brother moved right by there so I really have no excuse so we're doing our

01:36:26.957 --> 01:36:30.957
own reunion for the birthday Yeah, on the 8th of November for VMA 223.

01:36:31.077 --> 01:36:32.297
Are you guys going to be there too?

01:36:34.303 --> 01:36:39.823
Okay. No, I think our reunion, I want to say it's May of next year. I'll pass that around.

01:36:40.483 --> 01:36:47.263
We're doing a squadron reunion dinner and 250th Marine Corps birthday that weekend.

01:36:47.523 --> 01:36:52.203
There is an OB-10 association in Dallas, and every couple years they do a thing.

01:36:52.823 --> 01:36:56.303
And it brings in, they got over the museum, they've got a couple airplanes.

01:36:56.503 --> 01:36:58.203
They got a bunch of airplanes you can crawl around in.

01:36:58.723 --> 01:37:02.423
And there's a Marine OB-10 there that you, Ronald, have flown,

01:37:02.423 --> 01:37:04.183
I can promise you, because it was in Okinawa.

01:37:05.123 --> 01:37:08.863
Sitting there. It's harder to get into than it was before, when last time I

01:37:08.863 --> 01:37:11.183
flew it. That's weird, isn't it? Yeah.

01:37:13.063 --> 01:37:17.603
So they have people who affiliate with, you know, Rockwell guys,

01:37:18.103 --> 01:37:21.703
Air Force OV-10 guys, Marines, the troops, everybody.

01:37:21.903 --> 01:37:24.363
I think that's coming up this fall as well, in October.

01:37:25.563 --> 01:37:27.763
Well, that's pretty cool. Yeah.

01:37:30.143 --> 01:37:33.943
Repeat, what do you think? Yeah, well, a couple more questions I've got,

01:37:34.123 --> 01:37:40.903
we've got to do call signs, Felix, Pigpen, you know, and how did the squadron assign call signs?

01:37:41.063 --> 01:37:45.183
Oh, and if either one of you want, let's go with Flair's first,

01:37:45.203 --> 01:37:47.923
and it's okay to tell, because Deanna knows.

01:37:49.454 --> 01:37:55.894
Flair is the curve of a woman's small of her back. Yep. Yep.

01:37:57.354 --> 01:37:59.834
He's the only guy that ever showed up and said, my call sign is Flair.

01:37:59.934 --> 01:38:04.234
And we said, okay. Usually that's quickly removed, but it worked for him.

01:38:06.074 --> 01:38:08.954
Yep. His favorite part, he said. All right.

01:38:09.654 --> 01:38:13.174
Favorite part. All right. And how did you guys do call signs for the most?

01:38:13.234 --> 01:38:14.474
Did you guys do kangaroo courts?

01:38:15.974 --> 01:38:20.194
We had kangaroo courts, but call signs just happened. but I don't remember specifically.

01:38:20.394 --> 01:38:23.534
I know I can think of a couple of guys I'm pretty sure gave call signs to.

01:38:23.694 --> 01:38:26.754
I think I know how Felix got his call sign. It's kind of obvious.

01:38:27.334 --> 01:38:32.774
It's obvious to us guys, but, you know, like young people would have no idea.

01:38:32.934 --> 01:38:34.274
Kids ask your parents, yeah.

01:38:34.754 --> 01:38:38.134
It's like Duke thought it was from Felix the cat, so he's older than us.

01:38:38.134 --> 01:38:39.354
It's the odd couple Felix.

01:38:39.654 --> 01:38:43.014
Yeah, it's the odd couple Felix. Yeah, because my last name is Unger,

01:38:43.094 --> 01:38:47.434
so it's like Felix Unger. Yeah, that's how I got Fig Newton. Okay, yep.

01:38:49.334 --> 01:38:57.634
I know. The greatest OV10 call sign I ever saw was Senta, which is short for plus Senta.

01:38:58.034 --> 01:39:01.954
He's so ugly, that he's a baby out by mistake. No.

01:39:03.914 --> 01:39:07.414
He chose up with that patch, call sign Senta.

01:39:08.954 --> 01:39:11.894
Is he really that ugly? I don't know.

01:39:13.154 --> 01:39:18.094
We interviewed a fellow Marine guy. It's been a couple years ago now.

01:39:18.094 --> 01:39:21.594
He wrote a book about call signs.

01:39:22.114 --> 01:39:25.454
Oh, man. Brutal. Brutal.

01:39:28.054 --> 01:39:31.654
Macro was an acronym. Married a crack hole.

01:39:35.094 --> 01:39:41.294
Yeah, there's some rough ones out there. I told one of you, and I think it was Felix earlier.

01:39:41.534 --> 01:39:45.114
My other favorite one was Lamb Chop. The guy was about 5'2",

01:39:45.114 --> 01:39:51.154
5'3". and they used to run his seat all the way down. He was a Hornet guy.

01:39:51.354 --> 01:39:53.614
They'd run his seat all the way down, so he'd get in the airplane,

01:39:53.814 --> 01:39:55.814
and he couldn't sit over the canopy rail.

01:39:56.314 --> 01:40:00.354
He's so short. He'd get pissed off, run it up. And then the final straw that

01:40:00.354 --> 01:40:03.514
pissed him off was when they put no step on his helmet.

01:40:06.894 --> 01:40:10.814
Pretty good. Lamb Chop was an acronym also. Little angry man,

01:40:11.014 --> 01:40:12.034
can't handle our program.

01:40:16.594 --> 01:40:21.114
It's beautiful I can hear now

01:40:21.114 --> 01:40:29.974
chop flight 2, 3, 4 this is terrible love it don't fight it and then Simba,

01:40:31.459 --> 01:40:34.179
What was that? What was Simba? Help me out.

01:40:34.319 --> 01:40:40.539
I think he did that in the extra, but the long and short of it was in the movie Simba, I guess,

01:40:41.119 --> 01:40:49.259
I haven't seen the movie, but somehow Simba gets the name Simba as they're putting

01:40:49.259 --> 01:40:54.239
like a cross on his forehead in blood or a streak of blood on his forehead and name him Simba.

01:40:54.959 --> 01:40:59.819
And so this dude is with his wife one night, and he makes the mistake of telling

01:40:59.819 --> 01:41:01.259
a buddy and goes, yeah, don't tell anybody.

01:41:01.459 --> 01:41:03.999
She's with his wife one night. He finishes.

01:41:04.319 --> 01:41:07.799
She takes the extra and goes on his forehead and goes Simba.

01:41:10.079 --> 01:41:13.599
And he tells somebody about it. Dumbass.

01:41:18.159 --> 01:41:22.919
Oh, man. Yep. Yeah. That just happened. Yeah.

01:41:23.959 --> 01:41:30.259
That's awesome. And there's a guy in the background here right now.

01:41:30.259 --> 01:41:34.619
Bago's with us tonight doing show production, coming up with pictures and stuff like that.

01:41:34.939 --> 01:41:38.159
And Bago and Styx both do that for us.

01:41:38.879 --> 01:41:41.999
And as he told the story and said, you know, here's what happened.

01:41:42.039 --> 01:41:47.339
He puts a picture up, which is a screen freeze frame from the movie of Simba

01:41:47.339 --> 01:41:49.259
getting, you know, named.

01:41:51.359 --> 01:41:54.539
Because he's that fast. He's that fast and that good.

01:41:54.759 --> 01:41:57.939
You know, these guys are amazing and helping in the background.

01:41:57.939 --> 01:42:02.419
So, oh, holy shit. This has been fun.

01:42:03.079 --> 01:42:05.199
Yeah, I think we probably ought to land the airplane, Fig.

01:42:07.319 --> 01:42:13.359
We have had what an amazing time. Thank you both for coming on with us and spending this time with us.

01:42:13.899 --> 01:42:19.179
Great stories. We can do it. Yeah, right. Oh, my gosh. There it is. Awesome. Thank you.

01:42:19.619 --> 01:42:23.559
First of all, thank you both for your service. We appreciate that you spent

01:42:23.559 --> 01:42:29.379
time away from your family and in the desert of Southwest Asia,

01:42:30.679 --> 01:42:32.759
hoping to... In harm's way.

01:42:32.919 --> 01:42:36.379
Yeah, in harm's way, putting your life on the line and signing that check for

01:42:36.379 --> 01:42:38.579
your country when a lot of people don't do that.

01:42:38.679 --> 01:42:44.159
And that's a big damn deal. So we're grateful to you and all veterans who stepped up and did that.

01:42:44.359 --> 01:42:51.319
And your families who kept the home fires burning whilst you were away. And that means a lot.

01:42:51.459 --> 01:42:54.579
It's a big deal, and none of this is free.

01:42:54.839 --> 01:42:56.879
Freedom isn't free, and so thank you.

01:42:57.439 --> 01:43:03.519
It's two little words that seem so trite, but really, truly mean so much to us.

01:43:06.775 --> 01:43:09.595
Cool any others uh fig any other thank

01:43:09.595 --> 01:43:12.315
yous yeah well we need to thank

01:43:12.315 --> 01:43:15.195
all our patreons for uh losing all

01:43:15.195 --> 01:43:18.055
judgment and throwing money at us

01:43:18.055 --> 01:43:23.295
to keep this uh the big wheel spinning which it does thanks to you thank you

01:43:23.295 --> 01:43:29.255
we are very humbled and of course yeah yeah in fact and let me take this moment

01:43:29.255 --> 01:43:34.495
to mention the nick nick chocley fig this i don't remember if i cc'd you on

01:43:34.495 --> 01:43:36.915
the email or not. I noticed that. Yeah.

01:43:37.195 --> 01:43:41.615
So he, he canceled his membership this week and, and I'm surprised he didn't

01:43:41.615 --> 01:43:47.115
do it three months ago because we had one of the levels we have pilot and section lead and division lead.

01:43:47.235 --> 01:43:51.335
And those are levels at five, 10 and $15 a month. And then we have tanker aircraft

01:43:51.335 --> 01:43:53.575
commander, which is $200 a month.

01:43:54.075 --> 01:43:57.875
And damn it, he didn't do four months.

01:43:58.015 --> 01:44:01.055
So he, and somehow I got the first month

01:44:01.055 --> 01:44:04.015
and read the dedication to his dad and the other three months

01:44:04.015 --> 01:44:07.695
dropped out and oh my god that's like

01:44:07.695 --> 01:44:11.155
wing commander level now yeah that's

01:44:11.155 --> 01:44:13.875
like wing commander chairman of the joint chiefs i

01:44:13.875 --> 01:44:17.495
don't know i mean that's a lot of coin so thank you so much you're right up

01:44:17.495 --> 01:44:22.835
there with with chucker and sal and you know that's and uh and michelle who've

01:44:22.835 --> 01:44:26.715
sent us a lot of money over the years and we're deeply appreciative and now

01:44:26.715 --> 01:44:29.555
i'm in trouble because i know i've left other people out who've given that kind

01:44:29.555 --> 01:44:33.235
of coin and and i'm Humble, humbly apologizing. Yeah, way to go.

01:44:34.455 --> 01:44:39.735
Fig forgot to tell me who you were, and so blame it on him. Send him the nasty gramps.

01:44:42.035 --> 01:44:46.575
You know, send Fig the nasty gramps. Listen, I don't remember what I did yesterday

01:44:46.575 --> 01:44:50.615
half the time, so I got a good excuse. Stick with that.

01:44:51.499 --> 01:44:55.719
How about a big thank to Dave Hamilton? Great. Gives us all the knowledge,

01:44:55.939 --> 01:45:01.039
know-how, server space, puts cash flow on our way, and gets us advertising like

01:45:01.039 --> 01:45:02.959
those fine folks at Masterclass.

01:45:03.279 --> 01:45:09.559
So, yeah, backbeatmedia.com gets us our advertising and Masterclass sponsoring

01:45:09.559 --> 01:45:11.539
this show. We are deeply grateful.

01:45:11.919 --> 01:45:17.179
Man, I don't know about you, Fig, I am having a ball with the Masterclass videos. Those are awesome.

01:45:17.659 --> 01:45:24.059
Holy shit. But yeah, I actually had a pretty good time watching the first two

01:45:24.059 --> 01:45:26.779
episodes of, you know, the Art of Negotiation.

01:45:28.099 --> 01:45:31.979
Phil Ivey, how to play poker, how to how to not give your tells away,

01:45:32.099 --> 01:45:33.079
how to pick up other tells.

01:45:33.239 --> 01:45:36.599
He's a human lie detector, that kind of shit. So, yeah, it's amazing stuff.

01:45:37.479 --> 01:45:42.819
And I don't know. Hey, if you're enjoying the show, there's two things you can do for us.

01:45:43.479 --> 01:45:48.379
One is share it. Share the show. You know, sharing the show and having other

01:45:48.379 --> 01:45:52.959
people listen is as good as money to us. It really is.

01:45:53.139 --> 01:45:57.459
The more people that are listening, the more we can charge confiscatory advertising

01:45:57.459 --> 01:46:02.839
rates and take money from people for plugging their products.

01:46:02.959 --> 01:46:05.459
But that being said, we aren't going to plug stuff that we don't believe in.

01:46:06.059 --> 01:46:09.219
I'm loving this master class, or I wouldn't talk about it. So,

01:46:09.279 --> 01:46:11.779
yeah, no thanks. I'm still trying to process confiscatory.

01:46:13.339 --> 01:46:17.799
That's your 50-cent word of the day, brother. I'm going to have to look that up.

01:46:17.879 --> 01:46:22.419
I'm going to have to ask Grok what the fuck confiscatory is. Right? No shit.

01:46:22.799 --> 01:46:26.079
So anyway, let's see. What else do we need to talk about there?

01:46:26.199 --> 01:46:28.779
Oh, so share the show and give us a rating.

01:46:29.019 --> 01:46:33.739
Go over to stherawas.us slash rate and throw five stars on our rating.

01:46:33.879 --> 01:46:37.139
Follow the little links they give you there and do that. Don't give us four

01:46:37.139 --> 01:46:38.219
stars. Don't give us three.

01:46:38.619 --> 01:46:41.239
And if you give us two or one, we're going to hunch it down.

01:46:42.899 --> 01:46:47.919
And someone is going to put Simba on your forehead. I'm just saying you might

01:46:47.919 --> 01:46:50.139
get confiscatorized. That's right.

01:46:50.899 --> 01:46:52.659
Don't do it. If you know, it's good for you.

01:46:53.929 --> 01:46:57.029
So, a couple other things. Oh, there you go.

01:46:57.849 --> 01:47:02.049
Fig was out for a couple weeks. He's back now, but I think he was out trying on bikinis.

01:47:02.429 --> 01:47:07.289
Actually, I got asked to never come back to the beach last week where I was.

01:47:07.469 --> 01:47:11.069
And because I was wearing my, so, no, actually I wasn't.

01:47:11.209 --> 01:47:16.369
However, if you have a female friend, there's no way that she wouldn't look

01:47:16.369 --> 01:47:18.969
good in the, so there I was bikini.

01:47:19.129 --> 01:47:23.669
Or any other thing, you can get it, so there I was, dot us slash merch.

01:47:24.589 --> 01:47:28.029
Because we've got a shitload of stuff. Absolutely. And the cool thing about

01:47:28.029 --> 01:47:31.109
that bikini, man, you can go, if she's wearing it, you can go right up to her

01:47:31.109 --> 01:47:33.069
with your phone and take a picture

01:47:33.069 --> 01:47:37.609
because it's got that QR code with the website right on the bottom.

01:47:38.029 --> 01:47:42.689
Let me run out to my wife real quick. Hold on. There you go. Get one for your wife.

01:47:43.509 --> 01:47:48.449
Maybe stand still for a second. I'm trying to take a picture of your QR code.

01:47:48.589 --> 01:47:49.749
That's it. That's all, honey.

01:47:51.349 --> 01:47:54.209
She would reject that pointy thing off of her body. That's awesome.

01:47:55.089 --> 01:47:58.769
Hey, we got to thank Badass. Badass, indeed. He's here tonight.

01:47:58.769 --> 01:47:59.729
He's in aviation photography.

01:47:59.989 --> 01:48:04.969
He was with us tonight, and he has awesome aviation pictures. It's art.

01:48:05.209 --> 01:48:09.509
The man is an artiste. Yeah, and he supplies us with an unlimited number of

01:48:09.509 --> 01:48:11.769
awesome pictures. He does, indeed.

01:48:12.389 --> 01:48:16.929
And then I guess lastly, but certainly not leastly, is the folks from the Air

01:48:16.929 --> 01:48:19.669
Force that make the Air Force sound good.

01:48:20.069 --> 01:48:25.549
Are you talking about the Dos Gringos? Both of them, man. Not one, but two. Dos Gringos.

01:48:25.829 --> 01:48:29.469
Four albums. Not a bad song in the bunch. And you know what?

01:48:29.989 --> 01:48:33.149
Generally, generally great guys.

01:48:33.829 --> 01:48:39.109
Generally, genuinely great guys. New lips. Genuinely great guys.

01:48:39.889 --> 01:48:43.909
Trip and Snooze, God bless you, man. Thank you for letting us use your music.

01:48:44.129 --> 01:48:45.509
It's deeply appreciated.

01:48:46.389 --> 01:48:50.609
It helps make the show. Yeah. Yeah. And we're grateful for it.

01:48:51.389 --> 01:48:55.989
Thanks, Jits. Indeed. So, I guess until next week, everybody,

01:48:56.229 --> 01:48:59.489
all we can tell you is stay safe and check six.

01:48:57.680 --> 01:49:33.200
Music.

01:49:05.549 --> 01:49:10.509
Well, there I was, crossing the pond, and you could say that I wasn't exactly

01:49:10.509 --> 01:49:14.889
fond of all the shit I was wearing on that day.

01:49:16.629 --> 01:49:22.369
Now an F-16 is cramped enough, but it's even worse with all that stuff.

01:49:22.609 --> 01:49:26.869
Supposed to save her life, but we knew there was no way.

01:49:28.329 --> 01:49:31.589
If you're going down the North Atlantic, man, it's over.

01:49:33.489 --> 01:49:37.789
Hold on, it's what? He said it's over. Oh, that makes me sad.

01:49:38.049 --> 01:49:39.309
This one's for you, Pigpen.

01:49:40.009 --> 01:49:44.269
That boy is a P-I-G pig. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

01:49:46.109 --> 01:49:47.709
And we're out.