WEBVTT

00:00:00.288 --> 00:00:06.817
Quiet numbskulls, I'm broadcasting. You're listening to the podcast, so there I was.

00:00:06.817 --> 00:00:10.388
It's how all great aviation tales begin.

00:00:10.577 --> 00:00:17.600
This is episode 55 with Cam. 55. Hard to believe.

00:00:17.817 --> 00:00:18.817
It doesn't seem right.

00:00:19.176 --> 00:00:20.652
And what a great interview Cam was.

00:00:21.217 --> 00:00:29.337
This was a lot of fun, yeah. Reached out to us through email, and it turns out he spent a few years as an American Airlines

00:00:29.337 --> 00:00:38.471
pilot, but is also a very talented author. And he wrote the book Highwire, which is this,

00:00:38.977 --> 00:00:45.937
week's show title, obviously. Fun book to read. Initially published, was it the week

00:00:45.937 --> 00:00:47.315
after or the week before 9-11?

00:00:47.684 --> 00:00:56.417
I think it was the week before because they pulled it. Yeah. They pulled it off the shelf. It was way too close to 9-11. It involved a terror

00:00:56.417 --> 00:01:01.926
And so he republished it recently and I've read it, it was a fun read, uh, keep you on

00:01:02.034 --> 00:01:03.017
the edge of your seat.

00:01:03.017 --> 00:01:06.377
It's like, man, the next, next thing coming down the pike, what is it?

00:01:06.377 --> 00:01:09.457
And it was good, good twists and turns, but well-written, fun to read.

00:01:09.457 --> 00:01:14.537
So, uh, he has an amazing story himself, just a personal story.

00:01:14.537 --> 00:01:22.417
I mean, how he got to the United States and how he became a pilot and, and, and, and,

00:01:22.892 --> 00:01:28.168
got to the United States and how he became a pilot. And he had some pretty.

00:01:29.077 --> 00:01:37.117
Amazing flying stories to boot. Born in Iran, taken to India as a young teenager, left in a boarding school. He and his brothers made it to England, then

00:01:37.117 --> 00:01:41.257
made it to the United States to go to university. And he had a friend at work

00:01:41.257 --> 00:01:45.477
who took him for an airplane ride and the rest as they say is history. He had

00:01:45.477 --> 00:01:51.377
an absolute ball doing that. So one other thing I do want to mention though before

00:01:51.377 --> 00:01:56.417
Before we get out of the way and go to cam here, Fig, is our new sponsor, Factor.

00:01:56.902 --> 00:02:03.017
I mean, is that great or what? We appreciate the support that we are getting from people around the world as this show

00:02:03.017 --> 00:02:05.980
is getting bigger, people are reaching in and trying to help out.

00:02:06.577 --> 00:02:08.608
And so we want to spread the word for Factor.

00:02:09.617 --> 00:02:12.137
We're going to talk more about it later in the show, but I'll tell you right now, go

00:02:12.137 --> 00:02:18.740
to factormeals.com slash sothereIwas50 and use the code sothereIwas50.

00:02:19.537 --> 00:02:31.097
So there I was five zero to get 50% off your first box Amazing stuff. That's meals ready in two minutes pre-cooked, but man, this ain't TV dinner stuff

00:02:31.097 --> 00:02:33.056
this is gourmet good stuff and they've got,

00:02:34.217 --> 00:02:40.817
Keto and vegan and high protein and all kinds of really really neat options for you to choose,

00:02:44.408 --> 00:02:48.057
So, I think the next thing we do though is get out of the way and listen to high water

00:02:48.057 --> 00:02:48.558
We really appreciated that.

00:02:49.451 --> 00:03:02.731
Music.

00:03:02.727 --> 00:03:06.508
So there I was crossing the pond and you could see that I wasn't exactly fond.

00:03:08.737 --> 00:03:17.302
So there I was, Teterboro, New Jersey, at the airport, one of the older Learjet versions,

00:03:17.617 --> 00:03:23.217
happened to be Frank Sinatra's airplane, big Lady Barbara in the front of it.

00:03:23.217 --> 00:03:27.657
We come in about an hour before the flight, due to the pre-flight, and I'm looking at

00:03:27.763 --> 00:03:30.940
oxygen, and oxygen is right at zero.

00:03:31.217 --> 00:03:36.777
So I get a hold of maintenance, it was a company that was out of Long Beach, and I call the

00:03:36.777 --> 00:03:41.320
guys up and I said, guys, you got oxygen at zero, we got to get it serviced.

00:03:41.537 --> 00:03:42.355
Guys are on our way out there.

00:03:43.259 --> 00:03:46.734
He said, no, you got to fly the airplane, you got to bring it all the way out here,

00:03:47.057 --> 00:03:50.344
you know, at zero oxygen. I said, you got to be kidding me, you know, it's a Lear.

00:03:50.657 --> 00:03:54.665
You know, we're going to go out 35, 37,000 feet going back out there.

00:03:55.177 --> 00:03:59.937
He said, you bring that Lear jet, you grab them and you bring them out here or you're

00:03:59.937 --> 00:04:01.327
you're fired where you stand.

00:04:02.177 --> 00:04:09.060
And like a complete dipshit, I flew the airplane with zero oxygen and brought it to Long Beach.

00:04:09.377 --> 00:04:16.271
Because I was looking for work and it was hard to get and scared the crap out of me.

00:04:16.817 --> 00:04:21.317
Well, so there I was. Wow. Well, welcome to So There I Was.

00:04:21.317 --> 00:04:25.877
This is Fig and I am actually out of the woods

00:04:25.877 --> 00:04:31.357
from Turkey, almost killing expedition. Where are you, my co-horse repeat?

00:04:31.737 --> 00:04:35.357
I'm home again tonight for almost 48 more hours. Then I'm off to Europe.

00:04:35.599 --> 00:04:38.277
Glad to be home for the ending, ending my vacation.

00:04:38.893 --> 00:04:43.237
And what you just heard there was the first of many funny, good stories.

00:04:43.237 --> 00:04:48.437
I'm sure coming up from our guest tonight, author, retired American

00:04:48.437 --> 00:04:54.517
captain, Cam Majd, and he is the author of High Wire coming out, going to hit

00:04:54.517 --> 00:05:01.557
one of Amazon's number one bestsellers next week and we are excited to have you

00:05:01.557 --> 00:05:06.517
with us, Cam. Welcome aboard. Yeah, welcome aboard, Cam. Thanks, guys. Thanks for having me.

00:05:06.517 --> 00:05:11.877
This is great. So, you've got quite the history. You got some of it pre-show.

00:05:11.877 --> 00:05:16.248
Let's just hop right into that. Usually, we ask how do you get into aviation.

00:05:16.833 --> 00:05:20.357
But you were not born in the United States. So, I'm going to ask how did you get to the

00:05:20.357 --> 00:05:24.117
the United States. Give us a little background there and tell us about your

00:05:24.117 --> 00:05:28.277
travels and travails, if you would.

00:05:27.455 --> 00:05:32.821
There was lots of that. I was born in Iran. I lived there for the first 13 years of my life.

00:05:33.298 --> 00:05:38.573
And then went to India. My father took me and a couple of brothers and kind of dropped us off.

00:05:39.050 --> 00:05:41.905
And so we were there for about three and a half, four years.

00:05:41.905 --> 00:05:48.431
Went to school, boarding school, kind of learned the languages, learned English, learned a little bit of, you know, how to speak Indian.

00:05:48.827 --> 00:05:53.922
And then I went over to England in 1974. Lived there in London for a year.

00:05:54.381 --> 00:06:00.685
Tried to get to the United States. It was not as easy as one would have hoped. I took 11 tries,

00:06:00.926 --> 00:06:04.925
went on the 11th try. They finally said, screw it, we better give these guys a visa or they're

00:06:04.925 --> 00:06:15.005
never going to leave us alone. Got a visa for myself and two brothers and I gave up everything

00:06:15.005 --> 00:06:22.525
we had out there in 16 hours and was on a Pan Am flight from London to Dulles the very next day.

00:06:22.525 --> 00:06:22.909
Wow.

00:06:23.540 --> 00:06:27.591
So dropped off in India at the age of 13. That's special.

00:06:28.288 --> 00:06:31.925
Wow. That took- Yeah, boarding school. Yeah, boarding school.

00:06:31.925 --> 00:06:35.165
That tells me it took some real perseverance and a vision on your part.

00:06:35.661 --> 00:06:37.929
What point did you go, I've got to get there?

00:06:39.005 --> 00:06:45.090
This is not for me. I want to get there. You know, it was kind of an instinctual thing here all your life.

00:06:45.245 --> 00:06:48.907
You know, you're looking for something bigger and better to do all your life.

00:06:49.325 --> 00:06:53.945
As far as coming to the United States, it was a dream. It wasn't my dream.

00:06:53.945 --> 00:06:54.884
It was everybody's dream.

00:06:55.105 --> 00:07:00.448
We sat there and I was watching Popeye in black and white and there were neighbors TV,

00:07:00.889 --> 00:07:04.465
when I was four years old, five years old, you know, and, and, and watching American

00:07:04.465 --> 00:07:09.985
football and, and it's a world of curiosities, a world of excitement, color, all the things

00:07:09.985 --> 00:07:11.505
that was, you know, absent.

00:07:11.505 --> 00:07:18.632
Are you telling me that Popeye speaks Farsi?

00:07:18.945 --> 00:07:22.745
That's the whole shebang. Yeah. Yeah. And it's amazing. Yeah.

00:07:22.745 --> 00:07:25.665
You can still get a burger on, on pay you next Tuesday.

00:07:27.665 --> 00:07:29.687
Very cool. Oh, that's awesome,

00:07:30.312 --> 00:07:33.886
So you got to the States, sounds like you're about 17, 18 years old?

00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:41.602
I was 17 years old, I finished high school. I got here in December of 1974 and went right

00:07:41.602 --> 00:07:44.882
into high school and I only had about three months of the 12th grade to finish,

00:07:45.571 --> 00:07:50.562
before I went into January and I think by April or May school was over. So that was

00:07:50.562 --> 00:07:55.682
my introduction to America, was last four months of high school in Arlington, Texas.

00:07:56.140 --> 00:08:04.682
And just, of course, went through that pretty, it wasn't very difficult at that point because the level of education, you know, overseas was just different.

00:08:04.682 --> 00:08:13.433
You know, what you were studying in India and in England was just, you know, when it came to a lot of things other than, you know, say history, you know, the math, you know, literature, some of the other stuff.

00:08:13.838 --> 00:08:19.428
It didn't, it wasn't a very difficult transition. You were way ahead of your peers when you got to the United States.

00:08:20.023 --> 00:08:24.562
You know, unfortunately, yes, I think in a way. So everybody is asking,

00:08:24.562 --> 00:08:25.642
how are you going to get through high school?

00:08:25.642 --> 00:08:30.282
Are you going to get through the finals? You know, and I just looked at the books and said, we'll manage.

00:08:30.282 --> 00:08:33.042
And then you got through it. But again, you know, America is America.

00:08:33.042 --> 00:08:36.042
It still doesn't matter what the education or anything like that.

00:08:36.042 --> 00:08:40.962
It's still, I mean, it comes to colleges, universities, you know, the top six or eight best ones

00:08:40.962 --> 00:08:41.862
in the world are all here.

00:08:42.402 --> 00:08:48.155
But anyhow, that was it. So I went to college across the street, UTA, UT Arlington.

00:08:48.482 --> 00:08:51.999
Just got restaurant jobs, got a job at TGI Fridays back then,

00:08:52.282 --> 00:08:56.419
there was only one, and Greenville Avenue in Dallas, that was the only, the original one,

00:08:56.722 --> 00:09:00.362
and then worked my way behind a bar, became a barback and a bartender,

00:09:00.362 --> 00:09:05.511
and a cold, wintry day, a fellow bartender got his pilot's license and he said,

00:09:05.565 --> 00:09:07.482
"'Cam, you wanna go out on a flight?"

00:09:07.870 --> 00:09:10.002
And I couldn't believe that he's asking me to get on an airplane.

00:09:10.002 --> 00:09:14.504
You know, to me, an airplane was an airplane. I mean, you don't just get up and go.

00:09:14.602 --> 00:09:19.996
That was my first pure introduction. So grab me up, we took me in a little Cessna

00:09:20.202 --> 00:09:22.930
and we went up at Redbird Airport.

00:09:23.242 --> 00:09:29.349
Just did a couple of touch and goes and I said, this is it. This is what I want to do the rest of my life.

00:09:29.974 --> 00:09:37.024
Use tip money and learn how to fly. I would go back years and decades later,

00:09:37.024 --> 00:09:41.904
and I would meet that same bartender, actually, Morgan Winans. Morgan, if you can hear this.

00:09:42.532 --> 00:09:48.544
Thank you for getting me into the field. Morgan, I would go, what are you doing here,

00:09:48.544 --> 00:09:52.930
dude? You're the one that got me into this. You got to go out, and he wouldn't.

00:09:53.092 --> 00:09:58.944
An interesting thing is, fast forward 30 years, I'm at the end of a jet bridge in Honolulu,

00:09:59.150 --> 00:10:03.327
getting ready to pick up an airplane. And it's a Czech airman bringing the airplane in from

00:10:03.426 --> 00:10:07.584
somewhere. You do the normal thing, you know, ask for the rides and the paperwork and all of that.

00:10:07.584 --> 00:10:11.584
And we were doing all that. And I'm talking to the Czech airman, there's a tall guy about 20

00:10:11.584 --> 00:10:16.304
feet away and he's staring down at us. And I'm talking to this guy, very aware of these other

00:10:16.304 --> 00:10:20.384
set of eyes that are staring at me. And then, you know, the guy takes a couple more steps forward,

00:10:20.384 --> 00:10:24.864
staring again, you know, and a couple more steps still. He's right on my shoulder here,

00:10:24.864 --> 00:10:30.384
staring right dead ahead in my face, you know, it's looking right at him. Like my natural reaction

00:10:30.384 --> 00:10:40.064
is like, you know, I didn't know she was married, you know, but jokes aside. And he says, your camp.

00:10:40.889 --> 00:10:48.469
You know, yeah. And it was Morgan. He had made it, he had flown for Eagle for, you know, many years

00:10:48.568 --> 00:10:52.624
and gotten through the, you know, the system into American airlines and was just getting

00:10:52.624 --> 00:10:55.932
get his check right. He was only about a year or so from retirement.

00:10:56.557 --> 00:11:00.727
Yeah, but he had managed to get it and it was, it was pretty, pretty special.

00:11:00.727 --> 00:11:02.003
That's pretty awesome. Wow.

00:11:02.727 --> 00:11:06.837
That's a, that's a, that's a nice crossing of the T and dotting of the I for that story. That's awesome.

00:11:07.527 --> 00:11:14.345
So obviously you got bitten hard by the aviation bug. And so that was your focus at that point.

00:11:14.527 --> 00:11:23.367
It was, and it was, it wasn't the easiest time. This was 1978 is when, yeah, when I first started one of the, the year I soloed out

00:11:23.692 --> 00:11:28.050
of Arlington Airport, a place called Cawthron Aviation, I think it was called.

00:11:28.247 --> 00:11:35.247
It was 19 December or so of 1978. And it wasn't the best time to get into the regulation that just hit in.

00:11:35.247 --> 00:11:40.127
So good airlines, you know, Braniff having difficult times, and we all know, you know,

00:11:40.127 --> 00:11:43.327
what happened to Eastern and Pan Am and the rest of them.

00:11:43.327 --> 00:11:52.687
Yeah, there you go. There's a lot of guys on the road, a lot of guys furloughed, not the best time to be wanting to get into that.

00:11:52.687 --> 00:11:58.047
Again, like you guys know, I mean, that's what we all have in common regardless of where we're from.

00:11:58.047 --> 00:12:04.367
We're all pilots. Bitten by the bug, we just are. And so I just kept learning how to fly.

00:12:04.367 --> 00:12:10.707
I transferred with Fridays from Dallas to Southern California, and I just used tip money

00:12:10.707 --> 00:12:16.266
and I would go to the, you know, I got my private pilot's license out of Torrance Airport.

00:12:17.031 --> 00:12:18.887
And I would just grab anybody I wanted.

00:12:18.887 --> 00:12:23.727
Fridays, I wanted to go to Catalina for five bucks. You know, Palm Springs for 15 bucks.

00:12:23.727 --> 00:12:27.367
So I just divide up the cost of the plane by the number of people, seats there were.

00:12:27.367 --> 00:12:28.635
Oh, it was always taken.

00:12:28.927 --> 00:12:32.887
So yeah, I did that, because people were going, you gotta be kidding me.

00:12:32.887 --> 00:12:37.407
I mean, you know, you take a little Cessna and you put it right on the deck, 10 feet above the water.

00:12:37.407 --> 00:12:39.771
You go all the way to Catalina, it's only 20 minutes.

00:12:40.127 --> 00:12:45.767
But it's pretty cool, even though you're only doing maybe 100, 150, or 30 miles an hour, whatever it was.

00:12:45.767 --> 00:12:49.223
You get over there, land, you know, have a Buffalo burger and come back.

00:12:49.387 --> 00:12:50.411
It's an afternoon.

00:12:51.407 --> 00:12:56.067
And so these guys loved it. So I got some time that way and learned how to fly.

00:12:56.067 --> 00:12:58.261
Then I taught flight instructions, did that for a while.

00:12:58.767 --> 00:13:03.487
But even there, there's a story there even. The school that I was at, Martin Aviation,

00:13:03.487 --> 00:13:04.725
they didn't have any openings.

00:13:05.067 --> 00:13:08.074
There was just too many instructors for the number of people that wanted to learn how to fly.

00:13:08.307 --> 00:13:13.947
And I was walking out of the class, the school one time, and I saw this guy that's coming in,

00:13:13.947 --> 00:13:17.337
this foreign-looking guy. I said, what are you doing here? He says, I wanna learn how to fly.

00:13:17.507 --> 00:13:19.067
I said, where are you from? I'm from Iran.

00:13:19.489 --> 00:13:22.807
I said, you go in there to those guys and you tell them you want to learn how to

00:13:22.807 --> 00:13:25.747
fly, but you need them. Farsi speaking instructor.

00:13:27.947 --> 00:13:32.347
I went to Friday's to do my shift that night. I think there was a phone call.

00:13:32.347 --> 00:13:33.982
It says, uh, can, can you start tomorrow?

00:13:34.126 --> 00:13:38.267
Uh, we've got a guy here that wants, you know, okay, here we go.

00:13:38.267 --> 00:13:40.667
Hey man, if you aren't always working your ball, right. You know.

00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:47.279
Well, whatever you have to do. I mean, it's crap.

00:13:48.053 --> 00:13:52.293
That's very cool. Well played, sir. Congratulations. Yes, well played.

00:13:53.074 --> 00:13:57.474
So, you built some time CFI and then, um... Well, yeah.

00:13:57.474 --> 00:14:02.514
So, I was doing both jobs, a standing bar at night and doing CFI stuff, CFI, double

00:14:02.514 --> 00:14:05.706
I, MEI, AGI, you know, every I that I could come up with.

00:14:05.958 --> 00:14:10.649
Then at nighttime, I was a standing bar and of course, TGI Fridays, you know, it was a

00:14:10.714 --> 00:14:15.874
place to go back to. And a lot of pilots would come through there, a lot of furloughed pilots, you know, a lot

00:14:15.874 --> 00:14:18.994
of Air Cal guys that were, you know, had private pilot jobs.

00:14:19.034 --> 00:14:24.034
And of course, you know, once they were pilots, uh, they didn't much pay for drinks for a lot of times.

00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:28.154
Not supposed to say that, but, you know, what are they going to do?

00:14:30.634 --> 00:14:35.594
And so made some contacts and these guys, you know, they needed a warm body in their planes once in a while.

00:14:35.634 --> 00:14:38.854
They would just say, Hey, Cam, you know, I'm, I'm doing a test for our flight.

00:14:38.854 --> 00:14:43.954
I'm going from here to whatever you want to come. And I just jump on and got some time that way.

00:14:43.954 --> 00:14:45.784
King Airs, Leers, you know, whatever.

00:14:45.838 --> 00:14:50.554
And then just kind of went around the country wherever I could get a job, like most of us did.

00:14:50.554 --> 00:14:55.394
I mean, if you guys did military, you know, God bless you, you went through the hard courses

00:14:55.394 --> 00:14:57.114
and you got all the training and all of that.

00:14:57.114 --> 00:15:01.714
But general aviation, especially back then, I mean, you did whatever you had to do to get hours

00:15:01.714 --> 00:15:05.788
and then to get heavier equipment, you know, bigger planes, jet time, whatever.

00:15:05.874 --> 00:15:09.748
So there was a lot of that going on. Went around the country wherever I could get a job,

00:15:10.154 --> 00:15:11.792
three months here, six months there.

00:15:11.914 --> 00:15:16.320
Ended up eventually out of Van Nuys flying Lear jets.

00:15:16.594 --> 00:15:21.154
When the time came to do that, I was, you know, again, just as the warm body sitting in the right seat

00:15:21.434 --> 00:15:24.710
for Lear 135 operations, just kind of a charter operation.

00:15:24.874 --> 00:15:30.914
They lost one of their captains, so I went into the owner's office at the point,

00:15:30.914 --> 00:15:35.792
and I said to him, you know, give me five hours of time in the left seat

00:15:36.152 --> 00:15:38.646
with one of your pilots that I have out here.

00:15:39.114 --> 00:15:42.463
And then put me up with the hardest checker, check airmen that you want.

00:15:43.201 --> 00:15:47.417
And if I pass, then make me your lowest paid captain and work me harder than anybody can.

00:15:47.691 --> 00:15:51.657
And if I don't, then don't worry about it. I'll pay for those five hours out of my paycheck.

00:15:51.873 --> 00:15:55.451
So you don't have to worry about it. So I'm talking to the owner, he's across the table,

00:15:55.537 --> 00:16:00.491
he's listening, but director of ops is sitting to my left and I can just see his head is just

00:16:00.491 --> 00:16:04.731
shaking the whole time. He's shaking like that. And I'm trying to tell him to shut up.

00:16:04.731 --> 00:16:10.171
Don't shake your head. I'm not done talking. Let me do my thing. This is hard enough as it is,

00:16:10.171 --> 00:16:14.937
this dude. So the owner tells me, I'll let you know my decision,

00:16:15.171 --> 00:16:18.411
calls me up that night says, if you're crazy enough to do this,

00:16:18.531 --> 00:16:22.958
I'm okay with it. Okay. So I get five hours. I get a check.

00:16:23.131 --> 00:16:31.411
You put me up with a check him and I pass and I'm now the lowest grade captain, but they take the thing to the insurance company.

00:16:31.411 --> 00:16:33.770
And the insurance guy goes, what did you do?

00:16:34.691 --> 00:16:43.771
Since you gave the guy five hours of trend. you want us to insure him and you? What are you nuts? So at that point everybody was committed

00:16:43.771 --> 00:16:48.971
so they ended up after all of this is over, after I'm the captain, they send me for a

00:16:49.182 --> 00:16:55.762
two week at SEMU flight at DFW airport. Two full weeks, full school. I was like, couldn't,

00:16:56.251 --> 00:17:03.011
we have just done this to begin with? Because it's a jet you have to get what's called a

00:17:03.135 --> 00:17:05.351
with type reading in the airplane.

00:17:05.351 --> 00:17:12.263
It's not, and that's not a simple thing. You have to know systems cold inside and out.

00:17:12.371 --> 00:17:13.704
That's a big deal, so.

00:17:14.351 --> 00:17:17.299
And training's expensive. Yes, it is. So that was a commitment.

00:17:17.551 --> 00:17:21.525
Yeah, it was. That's a great story.

00:17:23.294 --> 00:17:28.628
Oh my God. So, and now is this the outfit you were with when you were, were flying.

00:17:28.628 --> 00:17:31.908
Were you and Tito bro with no oxygen? Yeah. From Tito bro to the West Coast.

00:17:32.638 --> 00:17:36.188
No, no, this was national jet charter. It was, it was a good outfit.

00:17:36.228 --> 00:17:40.508
Uh, it was a lot of work, but the other outfit, and I probably shouldn't mention their name.

00:17:40.803 --> 00:17:43.948
It was out of Long Beach, the other place where, you know, the guy said,

00:17:44.602 --> 00:17:46.988
get on the plane, come over here. You fight where you stand.

00:17:47.068 --> 00:17:55.148
And, uh, like a dumb shit, I did exactly what I was told. But I still remember it and 40 years have passed.

00:17:55.148 --> 00:18:01.022
You live to fight another day and you learned a lesson and, oh man, that was a bad position to be in, right?

00:18:01.715 --> 00:18:08.308
Terrible. There were no jobs. There were literally no jobs. I couldn't fly. I couldn't tow banners for seven

00:18:08.308 --> 00:18:15.988
bucks an hour. I ended up eventually, I got this job flying in Navajo between Orange County and LAX.

00:18:15.988 --> 00:18:17.451
What? What?

00:18:18.010 --> 00:18:24.028
Talking about ridiculous, this outfit had a chief pilot, again, I'm not going to mention

00:18:24.028 --> 00:18:30.308
names or anything, but imagine one passenger, I don't know if you guys know, it's like eight

00:18:30.308 --> 00:18:35.948
seats or something like that, you go in, you load up the guy's bag, we sit over here, and

00:18:35.948 --> 00:18:39.188
on my training flight, the guy that's training was two pilots.

00:18:39.188 --> 00:18:42.919
There was director of operations, which was the other gentleman, and then I was the only pilot.

00:18:43.904 --> 00:18:53.833
So I'm in the left seat, he's in the right seat, and he turns around and we have one passenger in the airplane, the one single passenger is sitting behind me in one of eight seats.

00:18:54.157 --> 00:18:58.821
And he turns around and he starts briefing this guy as if he's briefing in a 747.

00:18:58.956 --> 00:19:06.662
And he says, well, in the event of decompression, we're going to do it, we're going to like 1,500 feet, they got elevators that are taller than this, you know?

00:19:07.490 --> 00:19:16.234
What decompression? We're not even pressurized. Uh, so he says the whole thing here, he just, uh, well, we don't have any

00:19:16.234 --> 00:19:21.774
oxygen, but you know, it's just embarrassing. You know, the job was paying 10 bucks an hour or something like that.

00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:27.174
We go to LAX, you know, and it's his leg, he lands the plane and it's just, he, he greases it on.

00:19:27.174 --> 00:19:29.054
I mean, it's just, it's a beautiful landing.

00:19:29.094 --> 00:19:31.434
I'm going, Gi, there's no way in heck I can do this.

00:19:31.661 --> 00:19:35.154
So he lands it and we just rolling down, you know, two, five left.

00:19:35.314 --> 00:19:38.514
And, um, and it just turns around and says, sorry.

00:19:38.514 --> 00:19:45.574
I'm like, oh shit, this guy is sorry for this. I am in deep trouble.

00:19:45.574 --> 00:19:48.594
Next one, you know, about, you know, I don't know, two or three landings later, he comes

00:19:48.594 --> 00:19:50.939
in and just bounces it all over the place.

00:19:51.290 --> 00:19:53.855
I mean, we had like four or five landings out of that one.

00:19:54.514 --> 00:20:00.269
I got no apologies for this one. Just sorry for this other one.

00:20:00.872 --> 00:20:03.258
Anyhow, a lot of stories like that.

00:20:03.954 --> 00:20:08.514
So I didn't have the luck, the opportunity to fly some of the great airplanes that you

00:20:08.514 --> 00:20:09.514
guys did in the military.

00:20:09.514 --> 00:20:17.154
But, uh, you got a lot more character now. It was, well, I don't know.

00:20:17.154 --> 00:20:23.394
Let's go with that, but I want to, I want to just back up for a second, the, uh, we,

00:20:23.394 --> 00:20:25.407
we do have non-aviation listeners.

00:20:25.594 --> 00:20:29.966
And so would you just describe what a, uh, it's a Piper Navajo, right?

00:20:30.524 --> 00:20:34.228
It's a piston driven, twin engine, small airplane with eight seats.

00:20:34.831 --> 00:20:39.053
Right. Yes. Flying into LAX. Right. It's funny.

00:20:40.349 --> 00:20:46.234
You'd go down LAX, you know, on that second floor, you see Delta, American, United, and

00:20:46.234 --> 00:20:50.171
then you'll have the name of this little airline with one airplane and two pilots.

00:20:50.434 --> 00:20:57.616
So if you, you know, it was, there we were. And it was Orange County to LAX, which if you had to drive it was, you know, it was,

00:20:58.453 --> 00:21:04.485
what 40 minute drive in your, it's a seven or eight minute flight in your, uh, in your Navajo

00:21:04.782 --> 00:21:09.903
or maybe maybe 10. Yeah. But half the time they would say, you know, cause they don't want you

00:21:09.903 --> 00:21:14.943
there. They really don't have time for airplanes. So the guy would say, as you get into approach

00:21:14.943 --> 00:21:20.223
into LAX to go, you see, you see that high school next to you on your left. Yeah. So just circle

00:21:20.223 --> 00:21:28.383
over it until I tell you, what do you mean? So there you would be one, two, three, five, 10 And turn some gifts.

00:21:30.903 --> 00:21:36.423
Oh, that's right. So it wasn't eight or 10 minutes. I mean, I took 20, 25 to get there, but.

00:21:37.068 --> 00:21:40.363
And it was a job, you know, and it paid 10 bucks an hour. Wow.

00:21:40.543 --> 00:21:47.943
And so I can only assume that people that your, your passengers were, were avoiding, they live, they live closer to orange County and they didn't want

00:21:47.943 --> 00:21:52.423
to drive, so they would take your, your flights to LAX to catch up.

00:21:52.732 --> 00:21:54.271
Jet going to wherever.

00:21:54.896 --> 00:21:58.803
Yeah, it did. It was the connecting flight, you know, but back then,

00:21:59.063 --> 00:22:04.923
I mean, it wasn't like passengers, you know, I don't think we ever got plural on any of the legs with it. You know?

00:22:05.194 --> 00:22:09.923
Did you do cargo flying at all, you know, to build time?

00:22:11.863 --> 00:22:15.963
I did a very brief time here. I mean, some of the bigger airplane airlines

00:22:15.963 --> 00:22:18.903
on the East Coast, there was a lot of Learjet time.

00:22:18.903 --> 00:22:25.954
So, and then we'd fly whatever they gave us, but one of my, you know, and there I was stories,

00:22:26.170 --> 00:22:29.483
you know, listen, we've all had those. I've got five times in my whole career

00:22:29.483 --> 00:22:32.975
where I really wish I was on the ground, but one of them was a cargo flight.

00:22:33.223 --> 00:22:39.853
You know, 39,000 feet in a Lear, early, early model, 24, 23, 24 series.

00:22:40.243 --> 00:22:43.454
And I don't know if you guys are familiar with Lear just at all.

00:22:43.688 --> 00:22:48.483
They have a backup pressurization system. It's got a little cherry pick where you get to open

00:22:48.483 --> 00:22:49.720
and close the outflow valve.

00:22:50.350 --> 00:22:55.640
The Southfield, what I was a part of, was really just a shady maintenance operation.

00:22:55.706 --> 00:22:59.560
The primary system didn't work, so they had us use the standby system the entire time.

00:22:59.560 --> 00:23:02.440
You know, when you climb up, close the outflow valves, you're going down,

00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:04.357
you open the outflow valves using the cherry pick.

00:23:05.159 --> 00:23:08.520
Just beat up on your ears a little bit, but other than that, you know, we managed it.

00:23:08.520 --> 00:23:11.960
And again, it's a job. You do whatever the heck the job was. It wasn't like now,

00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.120
where people pay you to become an airline pilot.

00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:20.600
You really had to work to get a job. And so we're at 39,000 feet, middle of the night,

00:23:20.600 --> 00:23:22.200
two in the morning, I'm FO,

00:23:22.600 --> 00:23:26.840
and there's a captain out there in the left seat, and the outflow valve just lets loose,

00:23:26.840 --> 00:23:31.920
the secondary system just lets loose, opens wide up, and you get full-fledged,

00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:33.840
this explosive decompression.

00:23:33.840 --> 00:23:37.387
The whole thing, the noise, the crystallization of the moisture.

00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:41.360
Of course you reach for your oxygen, but thankfully we had oxygen,

00:23:41.360 --> 00:23:45.453
but you can't put them, you can't don them, you can't put them on your head, anything like that.

00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:49.520
None of the stuff works. You're kind of holding it with one hand on your face.

00:23:49.520 --> 00:23:53.582
You know, as we dive down into the deck, get down to 10,000 feet.

00:23:53.840 --> 00:23:57.381
And I'm looking over here, the captain, it's just his hands are just shaking.

00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:02.960
And back then, you know, he was smoking, obviously, and he was a smoker, so I just took the plane and said,

00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:05.069
dude, light one up right now.

00:24:05.240 --> 00:24:07.760
We need to relax, we gotta get this thing down.

00:24:08.000 --> 00:24:13.840
And of course, none of the cargo in the back was tied down. So in the explosive decompression,

00:24:13.840 --> 00:24:17.357
as you got, whatever it was, 15 degrees, nose deck and nose down deck.

00:24:17.456 --> 00:24:20.886
All of that cargo went against the door, just slid against the door.

00:24:22.330 --> 00:24:28.120
So we come down, we land in Kansas city. Yeah, of course we can't get out of the cargo is jammed your door shut.

00:24:28.180 --> 00:24:34.960
Oh my God. No, they got to go open the door from outside, pull the cargo out, pull us out.

00:24:35.491 --> 00:24:37.500
So we can go around and clean up around here.

00:24:38.498 --> 00:24:44.828
Oh my gosh. I'm assuming Kansas City was the closest when this whole thing went down.

00:24:44.828 --> 00:24:48.068
It is. We were right over, I think it was two in the morning. Of course, all the cargo

00:24:48.068 --> 00:24:53.244
back then was, we were based out of Kenosha, Wisconsin. A lot of car parts over there.

00:24:53.788 --> 00:24:58.228
And you just take those car parts and take them wherever. And of course, it's just, again,

00:24:58.228 --> 00:25:03.686
fly by night operation here. Middle of the night, you went out, you fueled your own airplanes.

00:25:04.068 --> 00:25:10.948
This was December, January, February, probably putting in, you know, 500 gallons in layers

00:25:10.948 --> 00:25:13.028
at wingtips, you know, at two in the morning.

00:25:13.028 --> 00:25:19.148
Was that a gravity feed? It was like a filling station type or was it a pressure feed? That was it.

00:25:19.148 --> 00:25:25.508
No, it was a gas station. You know, you pulled your car up to the edge of the wingtip, you grabbed the thing and

00:25:25.508 --> 00:25:30.522
he shoved it down and it was just, it felt like it fits your car, but we would do it.

00:25:30.728 --> 00:25:34.648
Know, one guy would be out there for about 30 seconds, you know, and the other

00:25:34.648 --> 00:25:38.957
guys in the, you know, in the car with max sheet, the car is parked right next to the wingtip.

00:25:39.011 --> 00:25:42.488
Then you switch after 30 seconds, the other guy goes in and you go in and you

00:25:42.488 --> 00:25:48.568
do that. Five below the 20 knot wind, uh, holding that metal nozzle starts to get a little dimple.

00:25:50.688 --> 00:25:53.568
Yeah, it doesn't matter how many, well, how many layers of clothing you were.

00:25:53.568 --> 00:25:58.608
It was just cut right through that stuff, especially as Southern California boy

00:25:58.608 --> 00:26:03.741
over here. Oh, yeah. Oh, that is terrible.

00:26:04.048 --> 00:26:08.088
So let me ask this. How did you wind up getting out of the flight deck of that thing?

00:26:08.088 --> 00:26:10.528
There weren't any windows on that thing you could get out through, were there?

00:26:11.008 --> 00:26:17.658
No, no. We waited. We pulled into the local FBO, and when we're on the radio, we told them we can't get out.

00:26:17.937 --> 00:26:20.971
I mean, as embarrassed as we are, we can't get out.

00:26:21.308 --> 00:26:26.219
So they came in, they opened the door from outside, they pulled all of the cargo out, they got us in.

00:26:26.732 --> 00:26:32.648
We all shook our heads. I was just embarrassed and scared and everything else going, really?

00:26:32.648 --> 00:26:37.088
I mean, you make me fly with a standby system for days on end.

00:26:37.088 --> 00:26:39.808
And again, back then it wasn't like you could say, screw you.

00:26:39.808 --> 00:26:42.048
I'm out of here. I'll go to the union, that stuff.

00:26:42.576 --> 00:26:45.528
You said, yes, sir. Because there was six other guys waiting for the job.

00:26:45.528 --> 00:26:46.789
You had that job and you're glad to have it.

00:26:47.135 --> 00:26:50.328
Yeah. Yeah. And fortunately there was someone on the ramp that night that knew

00:26:50.328 --> 00:26:51.528
how to open the door of a Lear.

00:26:52.621 --> 00:26:58.959
I mean, that's, yes, it worked out. The gods were with us. Wow. Yeah.

00:26:59.526 --> 00:27:04.396
I guess lacking that, they would have had to call crash crew or something like that over. Yeah.

00:27:04.848 --> 00:27:10.168
There was, there was a lot of that stuff. Listen, you, you guys, uh, you're both military.

00:27:10.168 --> 00:27:14.056
You've had, I'm sure you, your own stories, which were, you know, going to be hair raising as hell.

00:27:14.648 --> 00:27:18.848
Uh, we all have our stories, but again, in, in our, in the, in the general aviation world,

00:27:18.848 --> 00:27:25.008
especially back then, I mean, today it's different. You're going to get a job with people that are going to have to treat you well because

00:27:25.008 --> 00:27:26.884
If they don't, you'll go get a job somewhere else.

00:27:27.505 --> 00:27:30.845
It's a different time right now. This is unprecedented times right now.

00:27:31.268 --> 00:27:35.515
Yeah, they've been talking pilot shortage for the 40 some odd years that I've been around.

00:27:36.256 --> 00:27:40.649
And I never saw it till just now. But I'm looking at this, so many good,

00:27:40.865 --> 00:27:44.955
good buddies of mine, they're all retired, like me, they hired everybody in the early and mid

00:27:44.955 --> 00:27:49.675
80s. Now they got everybody retires and all at the same time, bring them on at the same time,

00:27:49.675 --> 00:27:54.350
they'll leave at the same time. So that's what's going on. Obviously, that's what's going on. But

00:27:54.476 --> 00:28:00.795
To this extent? I mean, I had never seen it. I never thought this would come, but I'm kind of thrilled that it has.

00:28:00.795 --> 00:28:03.983
We are in truly unprecedented times.

00:28:04.395 --> 00:28:07.926
It is good for the younger generation. No doubt about it. Yeah.

00:28:08.196 --> 00:28:15.755
It's amazing. People ask me all the time, is it safe? Because you've got a lot of young, young people out there in the cockpit.

00:28:15.755 --> 00:28:19.430
And my answer is, you know, invariably, yeah, safe. It's safe.

00:28:19.484 --> 00:28:23.835
Because, listen, we all work for major airlines, and we know what the training is like,

00:28:23.835 --> 00:28:27.835
and we know what their proficiency is like. And we know what, if somebody is not ready,

00:28:27.835 --> 00:28:32.715
they just, they don't beat you up and they just make you go back and do it again and again until

00:28:32.715 --> 00:28:37.115
you're ready. And if you're not ready in a very, very rare case, then they'll find something else

00:28:37.115 --> 00:28:42.155
for you to do. But almost always they train you to the point where you're good and you're

00:28:42.155 --> 00:28:45.835
comfortable. That's one of the things that are just wonderful. I mean, look at this, looking at

00:28:45.835 --> 00:28:50.038
the safety records of these airlines. I mean, just where we are compared to where we were

00:28:50.146 --> 00:28:50.915
Not long ago.

00:28:51.401 --> 00:28:55.075
Uh, it's pretty amazing. I'm just the way the training went on American airlines.

00:28:55.075 --> 00:28:59.435
So the, the difference that, that I saw in the 35 years I was there.

00:29:00.074 --> 00:29:01.715
That was day and night. Right.

00:29:01.992 --> 00:29:07.195
And I don't think anybody isn't on it anymore. Now there's, there's a thing called ASAP, right?

00:29:07.195 --> 00:29:09.257
American was one of the first ones to go to that, right?

00:29:09.572 --> 00:29:11.795
Uh, when I left ASAP was very much a thing.

00:29:12.155 --> 00:29:19.555
Um, so that took over the NASA, you know, so for the listeners that don't know what that is, ASAP is aviation safety action program.

00:29:19.555 --> 00:29:26.355
And the airlines have, I believe, whereas not just the airlines, the military is doing it as well.

00:29:26.355 --> 00:29:31.795
And there's some corporate aviation, the charter groups that are doing it.

00:29:32.996 --> 00:29:39.875
And the best way to describe it is if you punish a mistake, then the only errors you will discover

00:29:39.875 --> 00:29:45.797
are those that can't be covered up and the ASAP program has been designed to.

00:29:46.854 --> 00:29:53.264
Give forgiveness in exchange for full disclosure. So when something bad happened, you came forward

00:29:53.264 --> 00:29:56.624
and said, well, this is what we were thinking. This is what we saw. This is what we heard.

00:29:56.624 --> 00:30:01.264
So in the old days, pilots used to clam up because you're going to get some time on the beach.

00:30:01.824 --> 00:30:06.944
But not anymore. You give full disclosure. And as a result of that, as long as it wasn't,

00:30:07.504 --> 00:30:12.544
what they call a willful disregard, there's five big things, drugs and alcohol involved,

00:30:12.544 --> 00:30:18.224
criminal intent, that kind of stuff. But as long as there was, it was an honest mistake,

00:30:18.366 --> 00:30:22.064
and it was something like at-risk behavior, now there may be additional training so that you

00:30:22.064 --> 00:30:28.254
don't do it again, but there isn't punishment on your ticket and your ability to earn a living.

00:30:28.488 --> 00:30:31.855
And so they've been able to discover all these problems that have been hidden for years.

00:30:32.053 --> 00:30:39.552
So I'll relinquish my soapbox now. That was a very good explanation, my friend. Well done. Well done.

00:30:39.864 --> 00:30:45.904
Yeah, it really was, but listen, it's a wonderful, wonderful program.

00:30:45.904 --> 00:30:50.304
And if anybody's not sure how wonderful, it's one of the very few things that the company

00:30:50.304 --> 00:30:53.104
and the unions agree on.

00:30:53.104 --> 00:30:58.104
It's that wonderful because it really has made things so much better.

00:30:58.104 --> 00:31:04.416
I mean, that's why we are in, I believe, that's why we're in the safest period in commercial aviation history.

00:31:05.424 --> 00:31:09.184
The rates have plummeted, the rates of accidents and deaths have plummeted,

00:31:09.184 --> 00:31:10.218
and that's a beautiful thing.

00:31:10.664 --> 00:31:14.584
Well, here's a couple of quick stats here in regard to that.

00:31:14.584 --> 00:31:18.904
So I'm doing a lot of interviews here, and in that process, I kind of got an opportunity

00:31:19.247 --> 00:31:21.020
to read up a little bit on this.

00:31:21.224 --> 00:31:27.704
You know, you've always heard that flying is safer than driving cars, but nobody that I know of

00:31:27.704 --> 00:31:29.761
has really put stats to it, so I looked it up.

00:31:29.824 --> 00:31:35.464
If you want to go get in your car, go get a gallon of milk, your chances of getting into a serious accident

00:31:35.464 --> 00:31:37.666
is about one in to 5,000.

00:31:37.837 --> 00:31:42.264
If you're gonna go get on an airplane, go from A to B, your chances of getting into

00:31:42.264 --> 00:31:44.255
of serious accidents, one in 11 million.

00:31:45.236 --> 00:31:51.646
And then there's some other weird statistic added to that. And I don't remember exactly what the number is, but it's like your,

00:31:51.646 --> 00:31:54.686
your odds of dying in that accident that you just talked about,

00:31:54.686 --> 00:32:00.406
you're one in 11 million, your odds of dying are less than half, well below half.

00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:06.846
So things are going to happen. But of course, everything is always sensationalized on the news, right?

00:32:06.846 --> 00:32:08.726
Airplane comes out of the sky and people die.

00:32:09.406 --> 00:32:12.886
And of course, that's all is on the news for days and days and days.

00:32:12.926 --> 00:32:14.145
That's why everyone's terrified of it.

00:32:14.973 --> 00:32:19.286
But because you're helpless in the back, you know, it just, that is what it is.

00:32:19.510 --> 00:32:22.766
Okay. Well, this is a wonderful path to wander down.

00:32:24.106 --> 00:32:31.406
Let's get back to, Hey, so I would like to ask Cam how, so where, when did you start your airline career?

00:32:31.586 --> 00:32:35.626
I'm assuming maybe you didn't go right to the major airline.

00:32:36.046 --> 00:32:38.658
Did you go to a regional first or how'd that work?

00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:43.906
No, I didn't. So it was, again, you know, I started off with, with flight instruction and

00:32:43.906 --> 00:32:45.586
just work my way around the country.

00:32:45.606 --> 00:32:50.486
Uh, we went to Dallas, I flew a King Airs in the right seat and then the left seat.

00:32:50.486 --> 00:32:56.326
And then some Lear jets in the right seat. I came, uh, went to Kenosha, Wisconsin, uh, did some, some Lear flying and

00:32:56.326 --> 00:32:58.486
then ended up in a Van Nuys airport.

00:32:58.986 --> 00:33:05.686
And where the story that I was telling, you ended up on the left seat of a whole Lears and then, uh, then the airline started to call.

00:33:05.986 --> 00:33:10.046
So I got a job, you know, I got interviews with United, uh, you know,

00:33:10.046 --> 00:33:13.966
Uh, and then, then I started, you know, doing some of that.

00:33:13.966 --> 00:33:18.326
I got a job with a continental, but back then continental had just finished,

00:33:18.366 --> 00:33:21.326
you know, all of their, uh, they were going through a lot of trauma.

00:33:21.824 --> 00:33:25.126
Oh yeah. They had a big strike in the mid eighties. Just a strike.

00:33:25.126 --> 00:33:27.046
And yeah, they had a strike.

00:33:27.046 --> 00:33:29.686
They had, you know, scabs and all of this stuff that was happening.

00:33:29.686 --> 00:33:32.306
It wasn't, it wasn't a, my eye was just on American the whole time.

00:33:32.306 --> 00:33:36.686
So I went in, I put my, my stuff in and, and I got a chance to go,

00:33:36.686 --> 00:33:40.423
go through the interview process. I had two interviews, then I got rejected.

00:33:41.246 --> 00:33:45.338
And I go, oh my God, that's the end of that. A lot of people got rejected.

00:33:45.486 --> 00:33:48.386
And I found out, I wanted to dig into it and see why I got rejected,

00:33:48.660 --> 00:33:51.566
and it turns out that I got rejected because I had two tickets.

00:33:51.566 --> 00:33:57.966
I was living in Texas, I left Texas to come to California, and I got two speeding tickets

00:33:57.966 --> 00:34:01.046
within 30 minutes of each other. And it really pissed me off.

00:34:01.046 --> 00:34:04.966
And I said, I'm never gonna pay you. Oh, you didn't pay him.

00:34:04.966 --> 00:34:05.872
I'm never, yeah, right.

00:34:06.286 --> 00:34:12.326
Inside, just on two sides of El Paso. And I said, I'm never coming back.

00:34:12.326 --> 00:34:15.415
And I let them both went to warrants for my arrest.

00:34:15.726 --> 00:34:17.359
Oh no. Speeding tick.

00:34:18.070 --> 00:34:24.480
So those two speeding tickets cost me two years of seniority. So I, I, I corrected them. I went

00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:29.440
back pleading with my, you know, uh, hat in my hand and I, and I, and, and they said, okay,

00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:35.680
we'll come back again. And so they did all three rounds over again. And, um, and it was, it was

00:34:35.680 --> 00:34:41.341
great. So I went there five visits and my last visit, um, you know, was, was the captain's

00:34:41.600 --> 00:34:46.000
review board, you know, where you drop in your, your log books in the morning and he don't see

00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:49.320
GMP, I think I told you this story here, is it's one of the moments,

00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:51.720
it was a defining moment in my aviation career.

00:34:51.720 --> 00:34:57.760
I walked into, it's the very last thing that you do after five visits, probably total of eight or nine days

00:34:57.760 --> 00:35:00.354
of interviews and testing, everything else.

00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:05.920
I walked in and these guys have had my log booth, they've been looking at all my licenses, everything,

00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.645
and two gentlemen sitting out there,

00:35:09.080 --> 00:35:13.960
and the guy looks at my name, you know, and then, you know, Camp Camp, you know, Maj,

00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:16.160
It just doesn't sound, you know, it's not John Smith, you know.

00:35:17.116 --> 00:35:23.880
And it says, where are you from? And this was, you know, mid 80s, you know, 86, 1986.

00:35:23.880 --> 00:35:27.520
And not as popular a time to be, you know, you're from Iran.

00:35:28.832 --> 00:35:32.120
No, no. Like every time we were, you know, axis of evil for six months,

00:35:32.120 --> 00:35:34.240
we all became Persians. Yeah. You know.

00:35:35.250 --> 00:35:41.360
And so we were out there and this guy's looking at my stuff and he says, you know, where are you from?

00:35:42.070 --> 00:35:48.200
And to me it was, I want to be in a place that I either belong or a place that I don't belong.

00:35:48.497 --> 00:35:52.680
So I was just straightforward. I was born in Iran, here I am. So I told the guy that,

00:35:52.680 --> 00:35:57.320
I don't know if he noticed something in my voice, in my behavior, something,

00:35:57.320 --> 00:36:02.120
you know, but it just turns around, this old guy and says, son, I couldn't give a crap where you're

00:36:02.120 --> 00:36:07.960
from. All I care about is what kind of pilot you are. And when I heard that, I said, I am home.

00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:09.280
Nice. Absolutely.

00:36:09.395 --> 00:36:15.760
I have arrived, I am home. It was truly a defining moment in my life and one that I'll never forget.

00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:22.278
That's awesome. So that was in 1986. That's awesome. And you flew what models of airplanes at American?

00:36:22.560 --> 00:36:26.480
Everything American had. The first five years, I went through five airplanes. In the next,

00:36:27.229 --> 00:36:31.840
30 years, I went through three. First, you're excited, you want to do everything. I did

00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:34.620
I did engineer on the stuff, you know, 7-2 DC-10.

00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:39.814
And then I did FO and everything else, Super 80, DC-10, 7-6, triple.

00:36:40.040 --> 00:36:45.723
And then I did left seat on all the buses and the 777 and punched out on the big one.

00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:51.948
Hey Fig, have you heard about Factor? It's America's number one ready-to-eat meal kit.

00:36:52.160 --> 00:36:55.090
They deliver these amazing meals straight to your door.

00:36:55.715 --> 00:36:59.804
Oh really? That could be a game changer for us pilots constantly on the go and all.

00:37:00.462 --> 00:37:04.924
Absolutely. And during the prime spring season when we need convenient meals to fuel us for our

00:37:04.924 --> 00:37:10.365
flights, Factor can be a lifesaver. No more worrying about finding wholesome food when we're in a hurry.

00:37:10.608 --> 00:37:16.500
I couldn't agree more. With Factor, we can skip the grocery store, skip the chopping, prepping,

00:37:16.842 --> 00:37:21.019
and have so much time. Just imagine the convenience of having ready-to-eat meals.

00:37:21.243 --> 00:37:26.069
And the best part is that their meals are fresh, never frozen, and ready in just two minutes.

00:37:26.357 --> 00:37:29.589
No need to sacrifice taste or quality when we're pressed for time.

00:37:30.075 --> 00:37:34.044
That's true. Plus they offer different options to cater to our dietary needs and goals.

00:37:34.711 --> 00:37:40.044
If we're watching our calorie intake, they have calorie smart meals with around or less than

00:37:40.229 --> 00:37:41.598
550 calories per serving.

00:37:41.706 --> 00:37:49.231
And for those days when we need an extra boost of energy, their protein plus meals with 30 grams of protein or more per serving will come in handy.

00:37:49.331 --> 00:37:52.995
It's perfect for keeping us alert and focused during our flights.

00:37:53.166 --> 00:37:54.390
Absolutely, repeat.

00:37:54.835 --> 00:38:03.378
With Factor's diverse menu, we don't get bored either. They have options that fit different lifestyles, including keto, vegan, plus veggie and more.

00:38:03.729 --> 00:38:06.204
It's like having a personal chef. Don't forget the add-ons.

00:38:06.204 --> 00:38:09.724
We can supplement our meals with breakfast items like their delicious apple cinnamon

00:38:09.724 --> 00:38:14.684
pancakes or replenish our snack supply with their assortment of 45-plus options.

00:38:15.562 --> 00:38:20.684
That sounds like a dream come true. Not only is Factor a convenient choice, but it's also a sustainable one.

00:38:21.309 --> 00:38:24.844
They offset their delivery emissions, source renewable electricity,

00:38:25.243 --> 00:38:28.844
and even offer sustainably sourced seafood in their meals.

00:38:28.844 --> 00:38:36.523
Well, that's fantastic to hear. So let's head to factormeals.com slash sothereIwas50, five zero, and use the code sothereIwas50

00:38:36.844 --> 00:38:39.844
to get 50% off our first box.

00:38:39.844 --> 00:38:42.844
It's time for us to enjoy delicious meals without the hassle.

00:38:42.844 --> 00:38:52.204
The hassle. I'm with you, Repeat. Code SoThereIWas50 at factormeals.com slash SoThereIWas50 for 50%

00:38:52.204 --> 00:38:56.916
off your first box. Let's savor every bite and keep soaring through the skies with full bellies.

00:38:57.618 --> 00:39:04.329
Cheers to that, Fig. Here's to fueling up, saving time, and conquering the skies with Factor By Our Side.

00:39:04.954 --> 00:39:12.768
Fig, have you heard of the Nocillicast podcast? Nope. What is that? Sounds like a show for nosy chinchillas or something.

00:39:14.644 --> 00:39:21.761
No, it's a technology geek podcast with an ever so slight Apple bias. But don't worry,

00:39:22.248 --> 00:39:24.564
they don't only talk about Apple products.

00:39:26.173 --> 00:39:34.004
That's good. What's so special about this podcast? First of all, it's been running every week for nearly 18 years without missing a single

00:39:34.004 --> 00:39:34.788
episode.

00:39:35.103 --> 00:39:39.644
That's longer than most marriages last these days. Wow, that's impressive.

00:39:39.644 --> 00:39:44.249
I can barely commit to a gym membership for 18 weeks, let alone 18 years.

00:39:44.564 --> 00:39:50.704
Right? Well, the host Allison Sheridan provides excellent reviews for the tech she's actually using.

00:39:51.084 --> 00:39:55.204
But be warned, she's going to cost you money with her recommendations if you follow them.

00:39:55.204 --> 00:40:01.056
Oh, great. what I need another reason to drain my bank account. There you go. But it's worth it.

00:40:01.404 --> 00:40:06.204
She reviews hardware and software that she's actually using. And she teaches how to use

00:40:06.204 --> 00:40:11.164
the Mac, the iPhone, the iPad in a segment called Tiny Tips. But she also wanders into

00:40:11.164 --> 00:40:15.564
other tech like teaching the audience about solar and solar batteries and how she's using

00:40:15.564 --> 00:40:20.964
the Tesla full self-driving beta right now. And let's not forget about Bart Bouchats,

00:40:20.964 --> 00:40:25.044
the security specialist who joins her every other week to talk about the latest security

00:40:25.044 --> 00:40:30.964
news and what you can do to protect yourself from various scams and hacks that are attacking

00:40:30.964 --> 00:40:33.378
your computers. Sounds like they got it all covered.

00:40:34.044 --> 00:40:36.534
I'll have to check that out. They definitely do.

00:40:36.655 --> 00:40:40.334
And you can find it at podfeet.com or wherever you listen to podcasts.

00:40:40.778 --> 00:40:43.774
Who knows? Maybe you'll become a tech geek like Allison and Bart.

00:40:45.571 --> 00:40:49.134
All right. What was your favorite girlfriend? Because mine's the triple seven.

00:40:51.134 --> 00:40:57.985
I was going to say, you knew about her. Well, you landed in Kansas City. It's everybody.

00:40:58.255 --> 00:41:00.956
I love your sense of humor, man. Everybody.

00:41:01.307 --> 00:41:05.054
I was ready with my death, so there I was staying here. But we can come back.

00:41:05.934 --> 00:41:11.227
But yeah, everybody says that I know what is a triple seven. I mean, it's the queen.

00:41:11.425 --> 00:41:18.334
It is just beyond wonderful. It took me a while to understand what an Airbus is,

00:41:18.501 --> 00:41:23.694
you know, and why they don't have a yoke. But by the time I was on that for seven years,

00:41:23.694 --> 00:41:28.414
and I kind of start to enjoy it towards the end, especially when the Neos came out,

00:41:28.414 --> 00:41:30.474
And I was doing a lot of Hawaii flying with that.

00:41:30.618 --> 00:41:33.314
So I started to like that, but it was, it's no triple seven.

00:41:33.314 --> 00:41:37.280
That there's nothing that always said, you know, Airbus wants to grow up and be a triple seven.

00:41:37.460 --> 00:41:40.094
Cause I had a lot of the systems that were, you know, somewhat similar,

00:41:40.094 --> 00:41:45.094
but so there I was staying here. Just how open can we talk? Yeah.

00:41:45.094 --> 00:41:48.893
Is this, we are here for all the stories you've got.

00:41:49.554 --> 00:41:51.634
Well, you don't believe me. You don't have the time here.

00:41:55.534 --> 00:42:02.474
Together to get to that point. but I will, you know, but I just, just so I don't, I was thinking about it just as, as thing was

00:42:02.474 --> 00:42:08.234
going on. So there I was, first year flight engineer, doing my thing in a DC-10, first

00:42:08.234 --> 00:42:12.714
guy on the plane. I'm in the cockpit running around and trying to be, you know, as, as

00:42:12.848 --> 00:42:18.954
conscientious as I can to do a good job. Flight attendant walks in and she's one of the older

00:42:18.954 --> 00:42:24.234
ladies. I'm going to say she was late sixties, maybe seventies back then. I'm, I'm, you know,

00:42:24.234 --> 00:42:36.034
late 20s maybe 30 years old and she walks up to me and she puts out her hand just like that and says you know why you can't masturbate with this hand?

00:42:36.132 --> 00:42:45.890
No, I don't know why this is because it's mine. Oh, my God. What have I done?

00:42:45.944 --> 00:42:50.874
What kind of place is this? Oh, my God.

00:42:51.525 --> 00:42:54.634
So talk about things that stays with you. 35 years later. Yeah.

00:42:54.634 --> 00:42:58.700
She could smell the green on you. So that was her thing, right?

00:42:59.196 --> 00:43:03.049
Harass the new guys. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We've all had that right.

00:43:03.219 --> 00:43:04.507
Flight attendants. First flight.

00:43:04.867 --> 00:43:09.074
You have them run all the way down with a bag of, you know, trash bag, air sample,

00:43:09.074 --> 00:43:16.615
air sample, you know, turning the seat belt sign on and in the middle of it.

00:43:16.705 --> 00:43:18.674
And as they start making the announcement, he turned it off.

00:43:19.315 --> 00:43:25.068
Uh, doing a captain has a switch.

00:43:26.683 --> 00:43:31.413
Yeah, you don't get to do that in cargo flights. You're down here going, we're flying,

00:43:31.413 --> 00:43:34.704
ladies and gentlemen. We had a guy that did that, actually did that. I was on the plane.

00:43:35.244 --> 00:43:38.035
So ladies and gentlemen, we're flying over Kansas. Kansas is a dry state. Please,

00:43:38.213 --> 00:43:42.824
you have to put away all your drinks. People, you know, putting away their alcohol.

00:43:43.093 --> 00:43:44.933
Oh, that's perfect.

00:43:46.641 --> 00:43:49.253
So you got to do something here. We got all those miles to go.

00:43:49.253 --> 00:43:54.453
Well, yeah, yeah. I have several questions, but I don't want to go too far off script.

00:43:54.453 --> 00:44:00.613
How are we doing on our, uh, yeah, we're about, we're a little over 40 minutes in,

00:44:01.693 --> 00:44:08.853
round numbers. How many flying hours did you end up retiring with from United Airlines? I'm sorry,

00:44:08.853 --> 00:44:13.973
from American Airlines. That was a Freudian slip. Yeah. You know, I didn't, uh, my total hours at

00:44:13.973 --> 00:44:22.293
the end was just under 20,000 hours. Um, yeah, but, but I did not fly as much as a lot of other

00:44:22.293 --> 00:44:28.133
people did. But that also included the five or so thousand hours that I brought when I started

00:44:28.133 --> 00:44:36.213
with American. So yeah, I didn't fly as much as many other people. It would have been significantly

00:44:36.213 --> 00:44:42.530
more, but it was still a lot. Well, you had other interests and activities, right? Which.

00:44:44.357 --> 00:44:50.053
I did. There was a lot going on. Yeah. That's fairly common, actually. There are some

00:44:50.053 --> 00:45:03.413
professional airline pilots that they fly their asses off and then there's others that enjoy the time afforded off because they have other activities or

00:45:03.733 --> 00:45:10.973
whatever right so you know we call it the chase the money or chase the lifestyle. My first day as a new hire there was a guy standing in the front of

00:45:10.973 --> 00:45:22.493
the room he was about 75 80 years old teaching the base skin doc and said Every one of you needs to make sure you have an outside interest, a hobby, be it fishing

00:45:22.854 --> 00:45:25.699
or basket weaving or engine repair or something.

00:45:26.536 --> 00:45:33.918
But don't make this your hobby too, because when it goes away at retirement, you will die quickly.

00:45:34.393 --> 00:45:37.762
This is, you need to be interested in other things. Right.

00:45:38.393 --> 00:45:40.652
And that's good advice.

00:45:41.804 --> 00:45:45.697
Yeah. Regardless of what you do, whether you're flying or not, but you obviously had interest

00:45:45.697 --> 00:45:50.177
in writing. We'll segue into that in a little bit. I think it's a little early to do that yet.

00:45:50.177 --> 00:45:53.377
I want to hear more about your book as we get there, but I think you've got a couple

00:45:53.377 --> 00:45:55.457
other fun stories in the cockpit.

00:45:55.649 --> 00:45:59.737
Let's go there. What's the funniest thing you saw, the scariest thing you saw over those years?

00:45:59.970 --> 00:46:05.417
And it doesn't have to be in the American cockpit. Again, five incidents in 44 years.

00:46:05.417 --> 00:46:13.137
Mentioned one of them. one was again, flight engineer in a DC-10, leaving Chicago right at dusk. You know, 3-2

00:46:13.137 --> 00:46:17.977
left, the T-1 back then, whatever numbers have changed now. Six or eight years earlier,

00:46:17.977 --> 00:46:21.297
American had lost another DC-10 there when an engine left, you know, the number one engine

00:46:21.297 --> 00:46:26.137
left the plane. And so same, we're going down the runway, we're past V-1, and for those

00:46:26.137 --> 00:46:30.477
who don't know what V-1 is, this is kind of a go, no-go speed. You can't reject because

00:46:30.477 --> 00:46:35.863
you don't have enough runway to stop. I'm the F-E, Captain Wynne Evans in the left seat.

00:46:36.033 --> 00:46:44.928
The number two engine just blows up, literally blows up. One of the N1 blades, titanium blades, just gave out and it went right through the engine.

00:46:45.054 --> 00:46:47.897
So we are committed to lifting off.

00:46:48.937 --> 00:46:53.817
The airplane is just shaking and shuddering and bells and horns and whistles.

00:46:55.257 --> 00:46:59.897
Wynn did a great job, slowly took us up in the air, and of course the interphones ringing.

00:47:00.016 --> 00:47:04.598
Immediately the tower is telling us there's 50 feet of flame shooting out on number two.

00:47:05.673 --> 00:47:09.777
And I'm getting phone calls, calls from the interphone. They're saying that the wings are on fire.

00:47:10.520 --> 00:47:12.617
Saying, what the hell? How then the wings are on fire?

00:47:12.617 --> 00:47:16.697
So they're seeing the reflection of the fire on the wings and the

00:47:16.697 --> 00:47:19.792
dusk light and things that the wings are on fire.

00:47:19.865 --> 00:47:25.297
So crazy stuff. I mean, forget all the systems. We lifted the gear, I think, out of 5,000 feet.

00:47:25.297 --> 00:47:29.737
Raise the gear. Work that way.

00:47:30.352 --> 00:47:34.337
A lot was going on. We worked our way over the lake, dumped the fuel, came back,

00:47:34.337 --> 00:47:38.957
landed in a sea of flashing lights and then taxied right into the gate. Passengers all

00:47:38.957 --> 00:47:43.279
got off. We were the last ones to leave. We walked out and everybody was clapping and

00:47:43.557 --> 00:47:49.837
applauding and all of this other stuff. Fast forward two hours, us and all of our passengers

00:47:49.837 --> 00:47:55.397
are getting on the last DC-10 going home. And so we are now passengers working our way

00:47:55.397 --> 00:48:01.597
back into the coach section. I'm the last one to get on the plane. And again, everybody

00:48:01.597 --> 00:48:05.821
is looking. They want to talk to you, they want to shake your hand. Everybody's helping me with my

00:48:05.884 --> 00:48:10.797
bag, trying to find a place for it. And yeah, you can't do anything wrong, right? I take a seat,

00:48:10.797 --> 00:48:15.357
I sit down, you know, and then I'm talking to people and I'm occupied, but the airplane isn't

00:48:15.357 --> 00:48:19.997
going anywhere. It's talking, oh shit, why is it not? 15 minutes, fast forward, you know,

00:48:19.997 --> 00:48:24.157
there's a guy coming up here on the front of the plane and he, you know, there's a.

00:48:25.197 --> 00:48:29.277
And he looks up at his ticket, his boarding pass, and he looks up at the seat numbers,

00:48:29.277 --> 00:48:33.917
you know, takes another two or three steps, looks at his boarding pass and his seat numbers.

00:48:33.917 --> 00:48:36.375
She does this four or five times till it gets to my seat.

00:48:37.203 --> 00:48:40.973
And looks down at his boarding pass, the seat, you know, and then up and down two, three times.

00:48:41.695 --> 00:48:42.653
Shit, they sold my seat.

00:48:49.023 --> 00:48:53.293
So I had to get up, try and find where my bags are, because they were all over the plane,

00:48:54.208 --> 00:48:58.025
you know, and try and get them and just embarrassingly leave the plane.

00:48:58.412 --> 00:49:03.613
So hero time was over, it was time to find the hotel. You went from hero to zero in a couple hours, just like that.

00:49:03.613 --> 00:49:10.565
I could just feel people's hearts breaking for me.

00:49:10.664 --> 00:49:14.589
They got kicked out.

00:49:15.013 --> 00:49:18.813
That's crazy. That is crazy. That guy that took your seat is lucky.

00:49:18.813 --> 00:49:21.089
He wasn't lynched by the crowd.

00:49:21.287 --> 00:49:31.713
Hey, he's a great guy. It was fun. A lot of that going on. I'm sure you guys have stories.

00:49:32.018 --> 00:49:40.894
A couple of those. I think ours are probably more tactical. My, my, uh, civilian airline career has been blissfully boring and let's hope

00:49:41.299 --> 00:49:47.053
that it, uh, stays that way as I knock wood on my forehead, shut down a couple

00:49:47.053 --> 00:49:50.139
of engines here and there, but you know, nothing, nothing like, Oh, you know.

00:49:51.133 --> 00:49:59.893
Any other, any other crazy passenger or, uh, Hey, there was good, crazy flight attendants or any crazy passenger stories, any issues with that?

00:49:59.943 --> 00:50:07.453
That's the thing I don't have to worry about. Uh, yeah, you know, a few, you know, nothing that, that was, was, was crazy,

00:50:07.453 --> 00:50:07.953
crazy.

00:50:07.953 --> 00:50:12.893
I mean, we've had guys light up. We've had celebrities light up in one particular case.

00:50:12.893 --> 00:50:16.573
I don't want to mention a name. You know, it was a she and, you know, lit up in the bathroom.

00:50:16.781 --> 00:50:19.013
And of course, you know, you get all this fire warnings and stuff.

00:50:19.113 --> 00:50:23.073
You go back in and she does it a second time. You say, well, listen, you can't do this.

00:50:23.586 --> 00:50:26.973
You said it's only a $10,000 fine. I'll pay the $10,000 fine.

00:50:27.813 --> 00:50:31.073
No, it's not going to be a $10,000 fine. You do this again.

00:50:31.073 --> 00:50:34.101
We're landing somewhere and somebody's coming up with a handcuff.

00:50:34.313 --> 00:50:42.963
So that was that. But we had a couple of guys. We had another guy that got up in the cabin and did it a second time.

00:50:43.125 --> 00:50:49.113
Of course, we had our conversations and he stopped. This was a Honolulu trip.

00:50:49.113 --> 00:50:54.353
Landed over there and I said, I want to speak with this guy, see what it is.

00:50:54.353 --> 00:50:56.353
And he came up and he wasn't doing well.

00:50:56.466 --> 00:50:59.806
There was a lot of mental issues and some other things.

00:51:00.193 --> 00:51:06.873
And you could tell that pretty quickly. So just trying to find a way to make things as easy for him as possible that time.

00:51:07.206 --> 00:51:10.753
I looked at the medication he was taking and kind of helped him along the way, but nothing

00:51:10.798 --> 00:51:12.544
that was frightening scary.

00:51:13.066 --> 00:51:16.928
I've been lucky with that. We like that. That's the last thing you need, right?

00:51:17.739 --> 00:51:23.989
We do too, like I always said, you know, whether it's an engine that blows up, it's your responsibility

00:51:23.989 --> 00:51:28.709
or, you know, you're running out of toilet paper, it's your responsibility, you know, it's just all yours.

00:51:28.709 --> 00:51:32.949
Actually, I'm going to break, I'm going to do a point of personal privilege and privilege

00:51:32.949 --> 00:51:40.658
and break in with one, then my wife is a retired flight attendant and her call sign is sandwich girl.

00:51:41.334 --> 00:51:47.069
There is a story there. She came out of college.

00:51:47.069 --> 00:51:51.109
She worked her last two years in college as a tour guide, worked another six or seven

00:51:51.109 --> 00:51:56.349
years as a tour guide, and got sick of going all over the world, 10, 11 months a year,

00:51:56.349 --> 00:52:00.829
gone 25 days a month, and no social life.

00:52:00.829 --> 00:52:04.549
And after many, many years of that, she went, you know, I love to travel, but I can't keep

00:52:04.549 --> 00:52:08.429
doing this and have any kind of a social life, so I want to become a flight attendant.

00:52:08.429 --> 00:52:11.504
And she had wanted to become a flight attendant earlier, but she said, I'm going to do that.

00:52:12.728 --> 00:52:19.345
But she was making good money as a tour guide, but she goes out and goes to a open house,

00:52:19.970 --> 00:52:24.349
at Logan Airport and goes through all the things and they go, Oh, great.

00:52:24.349 --> 00:52:28.477
Well, we'd love to have you down for a class date. And it's two weeks from tomorrow.

00:52:29.449 --> 00:52:37.149
She's like, I've got an Australia trip next month. And they said, well, it's two weeks or not at all.

00:52:37.149 --> 00:52:38.284
She goes, okay, I'll be there.

00:52:38.392 --> 00:52:43.529
And then she drove down to get rid of her job. And of course, her boss pulls out the calculator and goes,

00:52:43.529 --> 00:52:46.972
you see how much money you're giving up to go be a flight attendant? What are you, nuts?

00:52:47.404 --> 00:52:49.569
It's like, no, no. It's something I want to do. I'm going to go do it.

00:52:49.569 --> 00:52:51.356
And so she did. And she got based in New York.

00:52:51.563 --> 00:52:56.729
And probably her second or third trip after finishing her initial training out on her own

00:52:56.729 --> 00:52:59.249
as a due flight attendant, she's on an L-1011.

00:52:59.249 --> 00:53:02.969
And she's pushing the sandwich cart up the aisle about three rows and handing out food

00:53:03.140 --> 00:53:05.649
and pushing the cart up the row and handing out food.

00:53:05.649 --> 00:53:12.249
And about the fifth or sixth time she goes to do it, She said, this old blue haired woman reaches out and pulls on her skirt.

00:53:12.249 --> 00:53:15.464
She said, she pulled off my skirt so hard. I thought she was going to pull it off.

00:53:15.563 --> 00:53:18.831
And she goes, sandwich girl, sandwich girl, you forgot me.

00:53:22.529 --> 00:53:26.032
My wife goes, oh my God. I said, what'd you do? She goes, well, I gave her a sandwich.

00:53:26.987 --> 00:53:28.889
I said, well, did she at least say thank you?

00:53:29.237 --> 00:53:31.452
No. She said, where's my drink?

00:53:32.077 --> 00:53:37.769
And my wife didn't miss a beat. She goes, drink boy on the other side of the cart there is going to take care of you in

00:53:37.769 --> 00:53:44.041
She said at that point, she turned around, walked back in the galley and sat down on the jump seat for a minute and put her head in her hands and just went, I was a tour guide for eight years.

00:53:44.769 --> 00:53:51.769
I was making great money. I've got a degree in hotel management. I've been all over the world and I gave it all up to become a sandwich girl.

00:53:51.769 --> 00:53:59.769
But you know what her biggest mistake was? Telling me the story. Her call sign has been sandwich girl for 22 years.

00:53:59.769 --> 00:54:02.511
That's right. Damn this girl.

00:54:03.424 --> 00:54:07.754
You know, if you're doing cargo, you obviously, you know, you haven't been around this.

00:54:10.131 --> 00:54:14.714
You know, they're there for safety and security and you know all of that. Yes, they are.

00:54:15.274 --> 00:54:21.514
And you just hate to see that, hate to see how someone were treated and the way that was. That

00:54:21.514 --> 00:54:26.470
was one of those things that we really had no patience for, you know, you just couldn't do it.

00:54:26.866 --> 00:54:32.154
And I had a number of occasions where something would go wrong, either, you know, with an employee

00:54:32.154 --> 00:54:35.815
or a customer or a passenger or something, just no tolerance for that, right?

00:54:36.394 --> 00:54:39.812
I mean, yeah, they, they are trained. They are certificated airmen.

00:54:40.234 --> 00:54:42.714
They have FAA certificates. They operate equipment.

00:54:42.890 --> 00:54:46.314
They are there for a reason to save your damn life when things go to crap.

00:54:47.994 --> 00:54:54.394
Hey, I, I just had a flash. So, so something, one of you guys just said, I, I got, I'm going to tell this quick story.

00:54:54.394 --> 00:55:01.834
I, uh, I was flying the seven 57 at the time and, you know, they board at door two, uh, left

00:55:01.834 --> 00:55:06.494
to not door one left. So you have to walk through first class back and forth

00:55:06.594 --> 00:55:09.195
if you're gonna go out and do the walk around. Well, I was gonna go do the walk around.

00:55:09.774 --> 00:55:13.834
And as I'm coming back, they had already started boarding and of course they board first class first.

00:55:14.173 --> 00:55:17.634
So I'm making my way through first class why these people are boarding.

00:55:17.634 --> 00:55:21.194
And there was a celebrity and his family on board.

00:55:21.194 --> 00:55:25.674
I think they let him down first because they were like, I'm not gonna say names,

00:55:25.674 --> 00:55:33.564
but you'll know who this is. He's a chef or something. and he got famous by doing this show.

00:55:33.874 --> 00:55:37.994
He's got spiky white hair, right? Spiky blonde hair.

00:55:37.994 --> 00:55:45.794
Anyway, I'm on my way back to the cockpit and his wife with this giant bouffant hairdo says.

00:55:47.590 --> 00:55:50.308
Oh, excuse me, excuse me. Can you put my bag up here?

00:55:50.854 --> 00:55:55.714
And I went, sure, you know, I'm standing there. Why not? You know, I pick it up, put it in there.

00:55:56.115 --> 00:56:02.398
And she goes, now, I would like a rum and Coke. he would like and then the other kids, I'm like,

00:56:02.854 --> 00:56:07.404
you know what, I'm gonna send the purser back here and make sure you get taken care of, because...

00:56:08.029 --> 00:56:16.039
I gotta go get your airplane ready to go. Oh, okay. You're wearing polyester, you know,

00:56:16.039 --> 00:56:23.159
you got a tie. Everybody looks alike, right? That's right. You know, a lot of it is an innocent

00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:28.439
mistake, but there is, you know, you're hearing more and more about stuff that is not. I have

00:56:28.439 --> 00:56:33.239
never seen abuse like this or violence or anything, stuff that you're hearing on radio.

00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:34.859
I'm sorry. Oh, yeah.

00:56:35.239 --> 00:56:38.679
That you're reading about all the time here. I've never seen.

00:56:38.910 --> 00:56:42.079
So, these flight attendants, they deserve much more than this.

00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:43.556
I could never do their job. I couldn't either.

00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:48.669
There's a reason they don't arm the flight attendants. I should say it. Right?

00:56:49.399 --> 00:56:56.199
No, we depended on them. I mean, if there was something wrong, whether it was passengers or equipment or anything

00:56:56.199 --> 00:57:00.942
that was out there, I know you need them to be completely and utterly depend on them.

00:57:01.719 --> 00:57:05.399
Such an integral part of this. And you can't go, uh, you can't go if you don't have them.

00:57:05.419 --> 00:57:09.936
I mean, you, you know, you have to have the right amount depending on how many, uh, seats you got.

00:57:10.539 --> 00:57:15.526
So it's, uh, cause they're, cause they're there specifically to get people off an airplane in an emergency.

00:57:16.975 --> 00:57:24.359
Really? Exactly. So where did you come up then? Let me, let's move into it and say, where did you come up with the plot for your

00:57:24.359 --> 00:57:28.819
book and, and let me preface this for a little bit, I was saying this pre-show before we went live.

00:57:29.478 --> 00:57:36.759
I'm probably two-thirds to three-quarters of the way through the book now. It is a great read. It's called high wire,

00:57:37.759 --> 00:57:44.334
By Cam Majd. I'm telling you go to Amazon get yourself a copy. This is a great adventure.

00:57:46.261 --> 00:57:52.979
Mystery slash terror novel and it is really well written I've read a lot of books by

00:57:52.979 --> 00:57:58.219
other quote-unquote famous authors that I don't consider their writing nearly

00:57:58.219 --> 00:58:02.779
as as artful as this. Your writing is masterful. So how did you come up with

00:58:02.779 --> 00:58:12.219
the plot for this? Was it well wealth sitting earning your 20,000 hours or somewhere else or where'd you go? There was a lot of that. A lot of Acars paper

00:58:12.219 --> 00:58:19.308
was wasted. Okay, hang on. Acars. That's a new acronym. Give it to me, Fig. Automatic,

00:58:19.821 --> 00:58:30.419
communication and it's oh cam what's a car standing or help me it's how we it's

00:58:30.419 --> 00:58:37.739
how we text back and forth with dispatch and sometimes a TC yeah yep yep and you

00:58:37.739 --> 00:58:46.379
can print you can get you get your weather forecast at your destination just print you can just forward the paper if you need some scratch paper

00:58:46.379 --> 00:58:50.379
right on. Which is, I think that's what Cameron was going with that.

00:58:50.379 --> 00:58:55.379
Yeah, okay. I'm sorry about that. I interrupted your flow there. Yep, sorry.

00:58:56.292 --> 00:59:02.566
No, not at all. I should have mentioned that. But anyhow, it's all about fly-by-wire. When I first

00:59:02.622 --> 00:59:09.066
learned and understood the systems of fly-by-wire and how it works, it was pretty amazing to me,

00:59:09.342 --> 00:59:11.569
safe it is, how light it is, how predictable it is.

00:59:11.822 --> 00:59:21.022
And so I'm going to ask you to define fly-by-wire. In aviation, the flight controls, the original planes all the way back to 1902,

00:59:21.022 --> 00:59:25.684
I mean, it was pulleys and cables. Pull the yoke and he moved it around and something

00:59:25.855 --> 00:59:30.302
pull something and the ailerons or rudders or whatever moved and the airplane moved through

00:59:30.302 --> 00:59:36.702
the air like a fish moves through water. Well, as airplanes became bigger, then obviously the

00:59:36.702 --> 00:59:41.662
pulleys and cables no longer worked and now came in a hydraulic system, a special fluid under

00:59:41.662 --> 00:59:48.253
extreme high pressure, 3,000 pounds per square inch, moving through some complicated piping

00:59:48.649 --> 00:59:53.982
to move those same very, you know, the same flight controls. But again, maintenance on this was

00:59:53.982 --> 00:59:58.782
difficult. They were very heavy. And so came, you know, fly-by-air, where, you know, it's

00:59:58.782 --> 01:00:02.782
essentially you're doing the same thing as you're still turning flight controls, but you're doing

01:00:02.782 --> 01:00:08.222
them through wires and computers and a series of small motors. So in a nutshell, even though we

01:00:08.222 --> 01:00:13.182
still have the yoke, we still, you know, 777 has a yoke, you know, these airplanes all have yokes.

01:00:14.222 --> 01:00:18.542
You know, airbuses, and you're still turning a yoke, you're pulling, you're pushing, really all

01:00:18.542 --> 01:00:20.724
all you're doing is typing on a keyboard.

01:00:20.862 --> 01:00:26.142
And it is that keyboard, even the feel, what you feel here is artificial.

01:00:26.142 --> 01:00:30.339
Some of the machines that are created to make you feel as if you're doing something

01:00:30.602 --> 01:00:32.634
when all you are doing is typing on a keyboard.

01:00:32.982 --> 01:00:39.233
So when I saw this and I learned about the system and it's so safe and it's so solid,

01:00:39.522 --> 01:00:44.022
but it's designed to be safe and solid based on some kind of failure,

01:00:44.022 --> 01:00:46.444
electrical failure, mechanical failure of some kind.

01:00:47.672 --> 01:00:51.596
But they're computers and computers only do what you tell them to do.

01:00:51.876 --> 01:00:55.795
So in my world I said what if somebody tells this computer to do the wrong thing,

01:00:56.241 --> 01:01:00.081
and it doesn't understand it just like a virus that you get on your own personal

01:01:00.081 --> 01:01:05.281
computer on your phone or something else. What if a virus is created that tells this

01:01:05.281 --> 01:01:08.641
computer that the information you're getting is right when it is not right.

01:01:09.713 --> 01:01:14.081
So I brought in an engineer from Airbus, one from Boeing. I sat them down on a Mexican

01:01:14.081 --> 01:01:17.741
restaurant with chips and salsa in the middle and a tape recorder going and I

01:01:17.741 --> 01:01:26.781
ran the scenario by them and this is what they told me I don't know how practical this is but if I were you I would send a copy to both Boeing and

01:01:26.781 --> 01:01:30.181
Airbus's security department. Wow.

01:01:30.181 --> 01:01:40.321
I immediately put a copy on there and I FedExed it to both security departments saying dude I'm an airline pilot I'm

01:01:40.321 --> 01:01:42.323
I'm writing this, I was told to do that, so here you have it.

01:01:43.121 --> 01:01:47.081
It is the same, like I'm writing the next story about Afghanistan, and my sources are people

01:01:47.081 --> 01:01:50.560
on the ground in Afghanistan, and one of them is a reporter,

01:01:50.681 --> 01:01:54.953
and she said, every phone call you start to my satellite phone, you start it with,

01:01:55.115 --> 01:01:57.942
this is a book, this is research for a book,

01:01:58.601 --> 01:02:03.241
because some guy's sitting on a, you know, in a cubicle, some pray in DC,

01:02:03.241 --> 01:02:07.561
you know, constipated, with a cup of coffee, you know, in their hand, or a jar,

01:02:07.561 --> 01:02:09.361
and they're listening to a conversation.

01:02:09.361 --> 01:02:14.083
You make damn sure that everybody, so that, anyhow, that's how I start all those conferences. Same way with this.

01:02:14.281 --> 01:02:17.881
A lot of research, real, actual research, and that's what it was.

01:02:17.881 --> 01:02:25.039
And it's not, cut the 737 MAXs. Fig, you can talk about that a lot more than I can.

01:02:25.161 --> 01:02:28.981
The whole, is it MCAS system? Is that what it's called? It's software.

01:02:28.981 --> 01:02:30.224
It's maybe not a system. It's software.

01:02:30.641 --> 01:02:34.441
It's software. It's a computer telling this guy that this airplane is about to stall

01:02:34.441 --> 01:02:37.102
and pushing the nose down where you want the nose up.

01:02:37.641 --> 01:02:39.379
And it did that all the way to the ground.

01:02:40.109 --> 01:02:45.735
Look at that Air France Airbus, what was that, 15 years ago when an air show in Paris, it goes right into the trees.

01:02:46.113 --> 01:02:54.679
So this does happen, the idea that airplanes and computers will do things that they should not do is not as uncommon as it sounds.

01:02:54.679 --> 01:02:59.806
So in my world I created that, what if the information these computers are getting is,

01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:06.599
they feel that it is legitimate, they're still machines, they're still systems, and then what happens?

01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:11.719
You know, so through research, I created that. And then after that, it was okay, if I have the story now, who's going to tell

01:03:11.719 --> 01:03:15.542
the story and in my world, the story was, it was always going to be a male, you

01:03:15.759 --> 01:03:18.359
know, cockpit, it was going to be a pilot, you know, man.

01:03:18.503 --> 01:03:25.079
And, um, of course, as you, uh, both well know, uh, you know, uh, 15, 20, 30 years

01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:29.279
ago, in a long time ago in the cockpit, we had, uh, this, you know, a little

01:03:29.599 --> 01:03:36.239
tradition that was always playboy pictures, sitting in nooks and crannies in the cockpits, you got in there, you looked at them and

01:03:36.239 --> 01:03:41.279
Oh, wait, wait, wait, hold on a second, I don't know what kind of place you were.

01:03:41.319 --> 01:03:43.206
I've never heard this before.

01:03:44.959 --> 01:03:51.599
Listen, that is not that that is not all black here. I'm looking at. Oh, my God.

01:03:53.719 --> 01:03:58.199
Well, in theory, in theory. OK, go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt.

01:03:58.199 --> 01:04:07.359
In theory, if that had happened one night, We were on a DC-10 and a flight engineer shows up, she's a female.

01:04:07.637 --> 01:04:10.798
Today you only have 6% of the pilots on the cockpit are female.

01:04:11.139 --> 01:04:14.002
So imagine what it was 20 years ago, it's a lot less than that.

01:04:14.191 --> 01:04:19.559
Female shows up, it's a girl and we do our introduction, she's on probation

01:04:19.559 --> 01:04:24.607
and the other guy reaches over and pulls out one of these pictures without even thinking about it, none of us were thinking about it, just routine.

01:04:24.759 --> 01:04:28.298
And hands it over and starts to hand it to me and we both go, oh shit.

01:04:28.937 --> 01:04:38.619
You know and we both realized and she's seen it of course by now and she's gracious and she's wonderful about it you know and then we look at it and of

01:04:38.619 --> 01:04:42.519
course you know quickly you know we fold and put it away back or it was for the

01:04:42.615 --> 01:04:44.759
next guy.

01:04:43.992 --> 01:04:48.742
All the way was an all-nighter, you know red eye la to Kennedy and all the way out there

01:04:48.742 --> 01:04:53.822
I go. How strange is it? How weird was it for her to come into a place where?

01:04:55.384 --> 01:05:03.942
You know, it's it's it's not normal It's not just a male dominated that doesn't do it justice when you know one or two out of a hundred people are female

01:05:04.134 --> 01:05:08.142
It's not male. It's only yes, you know, it's a football team, right?

01:05:08.852 --> 01:05:14.422
You know, and how strange is it for someone, and I understood that somewhat being, being

01:05:14.422 --> 01:05:19.982
from Iran, you know, I mean, I was sitting there with all this F-16 and F-18 and F-14

01:05:19.982 --> 01:05:21.262
jocks and carrier landings.

01:05:21.262 --> 01:05:26.822
Here's a guy that was a bartender, you know, you know, it's, you know, camel jacket coming

01:05:26.822 --> 01:05:29.305
in here and then flying airplanes.

01:05:29.782 --> 01:05:36.222
And so I was a little bit familiar with not, not feeling, you know, not, not someone even

01:05:36.222 --> 01:05:40.322
not belonging even though I always belonged I always felt that this was

01:05:40.322 --> 01:05:48.542
home you know and no incident ever occurred to counter that but it's still in my mind there was always that feeling so by the time I landed at Kennedy I

01:05:48.542 --> 01:05:53.122
said man it's gotta be it's gotta be a female you know so that she gets the

01:05:53.122 --> 01:05:57.162
blame she gets the blame that you crashed it because you're incompetent

01:05:57.233 --> 01:06:10.762
because you were hired on a quota because you know on and on and on and And then, and then I made her, you know, generation, you know, immigrant, because that's where, you know, home is and what was familiar with.

01:06:10.762 --> 01:06:14.762
Nice. So, so how, how, how long did it take you to write the book?

01:06:14.762 --> 01:06:21.499
You know, this book took six months, but I've had, you know, books that have taken 10 years.

01:06:21.762 --> 01:06:29.439
Well, so let me back up and ask you, so what, what, what, how did you get started writing and what was your driving force to write?

01:06:30.195 --> 01:06:36.569
You know, write a story. You know, I'm never much of a reader and to my embarrassment.

01:06:37.529 --> 01:06:42.569
You know, and it's not something that I gloat about, but it is true, it's just the way it is.

01:06:42.712 --> 01:06:48.169
I have not read many, many books in my life, but I did read The Firm. Oh yeah. So one of those long

01:06:48.169 --> 01:06:53.049
all writers, you know, The Firm by John Grisham and I got through it and I didn't have to get

01:06:53.049 --> 01:06:57.449
through it. It was easy to get through. And by the time I got to the end, I was so immersed with the

01:06:57.449 --> 01:07:02.620
the characterism, with the writing, and with just the fun of it, and I said, you know,

01:07:02.729 --> 01:07:03.944
I think I can do this.

01:07:04.729 --> 01:07:09.249
So I went and bought a novel, it's a little novelette, you know, it's How to Write a Damn

01:07:09.249 --> 01:07:14.089
Good Novel, it says, it's only, I don't know, 100 pages or something, you know, and I managed

01:07:14.089 --> 01:07:18.612
to get through that, and I just came home and typed in chapter one in Microsoft Word.

01:07:18.889 --> 01:07:20.574
That's awesome.

01:07:22.049 --> 01:07:25.289
You know how many writers are killed to hear that? Right?

01:07:26.079 --> 01:07:33.209
They're like, give you a, now listen, the, uh, this other one, silent

01:07:33.209 --> 01:07:35.489
voices has taken a lot longer.

01:07:35.509 --> 01:07:39.809
Well, just to put you at ease, um, you know, repeat and I are both Marines.

01:07:39.809 --> 01:07:42.769
So we, we really don't read much either. We were really like pictures.

01:07:42.809 --> 01:07:43.969
Pictures are good for us.

01:07:44.969 --> 01:07:52.249
Picture book, make it a picture book. Next exactly. Flew with a lot of Marines, really good guys.

01:07:52.806 --> 01:07:55.912
They're all ashlock. If you're out there somewhere, I salute you.

01:07:56.596 --> 01:07:56.884
There you go.

01:07:58.089 --> 01:08:01.689
There you go. Oh, I often say for someone who likes to sleep late and doesn't like to run, I

01:08:01.689 --> 01:08:03.609
went in the wrong branch of the military. What were we thinking?

01:08:07.675 --> 01:08:11.889
That just didn't work out well for me at all. So awesome. So, all right.

01:08:11.889 --> 01:08:14.778
So what's the name of your other book you're working on now?

01:08:16.146 --> 01:08:24.996
Silent Voices, it's about two sisters, two American sisters, that look alike, they're a few years apart.

01:08:25.098 --> 01:08:31.396
One is born and raised in the Northeast, knows nothing other than just life here.

01:08:31.553 --> 01:08:39.492
And the other one was lost at birth and she is in Afghanistan and she thinks she's an Afghan girl.

01:08:40.059 --> 01:08:46.153
Raised in a, her mother was a journalist, so at birth, an event took place,

01:08:46.396 --> 01:08:52.695
and she was separated, and so she's raised, even though she's blonde hair, blue eyes,

01:08:52.856 --> 01:08:57.596
you know, light skin, she feels like she's cursed with all of that, she doesn't understand it,

01:08:57.596 --> 01:09:03.156
she's a complete Afghan, she's having to dye her hair with henna so she doesn't attract any more unwanted

01:09:03.156 --> 01:09:05.937
attention that she's already getting.

01:09:06.236 --> 01:09:11.762
And the story takes place 30 days before the US pullout, you know, in July of 21. Okay.

01:09:12.196 --> 01:09:17.396
And they learn about each other and, you know, then they have to fight each other

01:09:17.396 --> 01:09:22.156
while they're fighting forces that are not, you know, that are not kind to them.

01:09:22.156 --> 01:09:26.836
And so there's a lot of real, you know, underground Afghanistan,

01:09:26.836 --> 01:09:32.476
the way it was during that period of time, you know, and in the events that take place.

01:09:32.476 --> 01:09:35.149
And when they find each other eventually.

01:09:36.603 --> 01:09:41.653
You know, it's, it's on a mountain top, you know, as, as, as forces are coming in to kill them both.

01:09:41.653 --> 01:09:44.613
Wow. When's this book going to be done? Cause I want to read that one too.

01:09:46.533 --> 01:09:49.993
Right. 90 days. Okay.

01:09:50.587 --> 01:09:58.698
Oh, wow. Okay. Oh, that's awesome. And how did you, uh, are you, are they're not self-published? I don't believe. Are they?

01:10:00.053 --> 01:10:06.133
No, the first two books were, uh, were published by, uh, Bantam Dell, you know, Random House now.

01:10:06.133 --> 01:10:12.133
And Highwire was nominated for Edgar's, by the Edgar Awards.

01:10:12.133 --> 01:10:14.133
Right, I forgot to mention that, my apologies.

01:10:14.243 --> 01:10:24.133
Yeah, so what I did was, so it did the thing, and actually Highwire, the original version of Highwire was sold prior to 9-11,

01:10:24.133 --> 01:10:32.133
and the books were actually being sold into the bookstores on the week of 9-11.

01:10:32.260 --> 01:10:42.133
It was scheduled that way and the original cover had an airplane that's 767 and at a

01:10:42.133 --> 01:10:48.779
bank angle over New York and big letters across the top was faster than the speed of terror.

01:10:49.453 --> 01:11:00.293
The book was sold in 2020 and it was scheduled to be sold the week of 9-11 and anyhow, they did not delay it.

01:11:00.293 --> 01:11:02.773
Pretty much the only thing I missed was Muhammad Ata's name.

01:11:02.773 --> 01:11:10.295
Oh my gosh. You know, and so the first printing was supposed to be 244,000 copies in the US alone.

01:11:11.053 --> 01:11:19.613
Of course, nothing nearly like that happened. Some people thought it even, I had written a book in one week, you know, about 9-11 and

01:11:19.613 --> 01:11:25.017
then so there was some backlash towards that, which, you know.

01:11:25.333 --> 01:11:31.233
So anyhow, fast forward 10 or 15 years, I forgot about it, went about my life, did other

01:11:31.233 --> 01:11:36.753
things. And then I just reverted the rights back to myself, you know, a while back.

01:11:37.535 --> 01:11:45.345
And, uh, and so I'm, I'm putting it out there myself the second time, you know, an audio book version, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Right.

01:11:46.033 --> 01:11:53.065
But I'll tell you, see, the fact that it's random house, Bantam that, that tells me that should tell you, uh, he's no slouch.

01:11:53.244 --> 01:11:55.657
This man could put words on paper that are compelling to read.

01:11:56.098 --> 01:11:57.425
So it's a lot of fun.

01:11:58.060 --> 01:12:05.385
So you were, so the book original, uh, release was just a victim of timing, bad, that horrible timing.

01:12:05.571 --> 01:12:08.905
Yeah, but there were so many victims that were so much worse than me.

01:12:08.905 --> 01:12:12.465
I mean, I wasn't going to sit there, you know, and then feel bad, you know, I still went

01:12:12.465 --> 01:12:14.150
to a second printing.

01:12:14.258 --> 01:12:18.545
I still got nominated for the Edgars, you know, and it was a big event, it was wonderful

01:12:18.545 --> 01:12:21.631
to see all of that, wonderful to be a part of all of it.

01:12:22.027 --> 01:12:25.529
But you know, it was, it was just the way it was, you know, it's just one of those things.

01:12:26.085 --> 01:12:30.825
So maybe that was a poor choice of words there, Fig, but, but yeah, the nice save there, Cam,

01:12:30.825 --> 01:12:38.898
well done. Yeah. I hate when that happens. Just leave it to the dumb marine.

01:12:39.429 --> 01:12:44.865
Oh man, right? Yeah. You guys must know each other for a while.

01:12:44.865 --> 01:12:52.315
Just a couple years now. Coming up on 30 or so. You're finishing each other's sentences.

01:12:52.423 --> 01:12:56.585
Perfect. What's your favorite one to wrap us up with then?

01:12:57.540 --> 01:12:59.870
Just a quick version here. Okay. No, take your time.

01:12:59.870 --> 01:13:05.630
The Moody Blues have been my favorite band all my life. I mean, I used to listen to them.

01:13:06.038 --> 01:13:12.133
Nice. You know, Knights in White Satin when I was two years old, probably. Well, not that old. But.

01:13:15.068 --> 01:13:20.110
Prior to American Airlines, we're flying the main two guys that are out there,

01:13:20.110 --> 01:13:27.510
to fly them for a concert someplace. And one of the two, he's fascinated by what I'm doing.

01:13:28.710 --> 01:13:33.310
And in Lyric Jet, I don't know if you're familiar, there's not enough, the older versions anyhow,

01:13:33.310 --> 01:13:37.415
there's not enough room to stand, so you gotta really just kneel on your knees.

01:13:37.950 --> 01:13:42.310
So he was kneeling on his knees for an hour, fascinated by what we're doing.

01:13:42.310 --> 01:13:47.524
And I'm looking at this guy, I've been listening to you since I was in diapers.

01:13:47.910 --> 01:13:52.070
And I'm fascinated by him, his fascination. So anyhow, we land, we go wherever we're going,

01:13:52.070 --> 01:13:54.393
and I'm just dying to go to this concert.

01:13:54.470 --> 01:13:58.931
But I mean, how do you do that? How do you tell the guy, A, I can't afford your ticket,

01:13:59.092 --> 01:14:01.334
B, how do you even get your ticket?

01:14:01.703 --> 01:14:07.170
So I kind of created the version somewhere in there. And I don't know how I did it.

01:14:07.170 --> 01:14:12.190
I walked up to the guy and said, man, I know, been listening to your stuff,

01:14:12.190 --> 01:14:16.200
and I really would wanted to see it, but it's a shame, I think it's sold out.

01:14:16.371 --> 01:14:21.330
Uh, sold out, sold out, no problem. Come here.

01:14:21.890 --> 01:14:25.170
He grabs his thing from around his neck and puts it around mine.

01:14:25.737 --> 01:14:26.970
Backstage pass.

01:14:27.790 --> 01:14:34.230
We flew these guys for a week and I was, I got the backstage pass. I would go in.

01:14:34.250 --> 01:14:37.530
I mean, he was, they were singing. I was so close. I could touch them.

01:14:38.164 --> 01:14:42.837
Talk about, you know, it wasn't always loads of cargo, man. It was, it was, it was awesome.

01:14:43.179 --> 01:14:44.196
Big, big, That's awesome.

01:14:44.745 --> 01:14:48.877
That is absolutely fantastic. Oh, man.

01:14:49.886 --> 01:14:52.056
Makes me want to consider flying passengers, you know.

01:14:54.180 --> 01:15:00.776
Geez. Well, Kim, we can't thank you enough for your time. Your stories are fabulous.

01:15:00.904 --> 01:15:05.176
It's been very captivating. And I'm telling people, go get his books.

01:15:05.176 --> 01:15:08.536
You are not going to be sorry. He is quite the writer.

01:15:10.050 --> 01:15:15.976
So thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate it. We need also to thank somebody else, huh, Jake?

01:15:16.181 --> 01:15:25.036
Who might that be? I, first of all, I want to say thank you to cam and I really have enjoyed this, but I, we, uh, we got to say thanks to Dave Hamilton.

01:15:25.719 --> 01:15:29.356
That's the man, Dave Hamilton, Mackie cab, help us put all this together.

01:15:29.671 --> 01:15:30.996
The brains behind the tech here.

01:15:31.390 --> 01:15:33.936
I just follow what he tells me to do and it all comes out great.

01:15:35.656 --> 01:15:40.116
Well, thank you guys, Pete and Fig. Um, you know, I have enjoyed it very much.

01:15:40.116 --> 01:15:43.756
I've done, um, you know, quite a few of these here in promote, trying to promote this book.

01:15:43.756 --> 01:15:45.556
This is, you guys are fun. I can tell you that.

01:15:45.556 --> 01:15:49.925
And the way you pick up for each other and do that, I mean,

01:15:50.277 --> 01:15:53.248
we used to be wingmen, you know, it's been a pleasure.

01:15:53.445 --> 01:15:55.408
Yeah, yeah, we'd fly, we'd fly together.

01:15:56.209 --> 01:16:01.056
Let's see who else we got to thank here. Oh, I know who it is.

01:16:01.521 --> 01:16:06.733
Oh, it's the guys that make the Air Force sound good. The Dose Gringos. That's right.

01:16:07.813 --> 01:16:11.356
The Dose Gringos. So thanks to the Dose Gringos for letting us use their music.

01:16:11.356 --> 01:16:15.256
It gives our show a little extra character. Perfect theme.

01:16:15.501 --> 01:16:19.453
The word, so there I was, right in the middle of this song. We love it.

01:16:20.263 --> 01:16:25.125
We also have a couple quick announcements. We have now a Patreon page. So if you go to

01:16:25.215 --> 01:16:31.300
so there I was that us slash Patreon, it will take you to our page. And you can help support

01:16:31.553 --> 01:16:37.553
us to bring this show to you every week. This is going to be show number 55. Cam. So we're,

01:16:37.710 --> 01:16:41.953
we're now over a year, we had a couple shows that we did a couple weeks where we did two shows in

01:16:41.953 --> 01:16:48.954
one week. So this is our one year anniversary show coming up big. So that's awesome. That went fast.

01:16:49.206 --> 01:16:54.778
And we've got a glossary page up there because we say terms all the time in aviation that

01:16:54.993 --> 01:16:58.673
we have no idea what it means, like ACARS, not one of the three of us know what it is.

01:17:00.193 --> 01:17:02.833
We know it's ACARS. It is what it is. It does what it does.

01:17:05.873 --> 01:17:09.473
So, yeah, we're going to have to look up what ACARS actually stands for and get it in the

01:17:09.473 --> 01:17:13.553
glossary. And if you heard other terms that you don't understand and you want them in the glossary,

01:17:13.553 --> 01:17:17.904
shoot us an email at fig at. So there I was dot us or repeat it.

01:17:18.193 --> 01:17:23.893
So there I was that us we're planning on a show in show number 75,

01:17:24.612 --> 01:17:25.593
how to become a pilot.

01:17:25.845 --> 01:17:29.873
So whether you're 14 or 44 or 64 and you want to fly airplanes,

01:17:30.355 --> 01:17:37.188
get some questions into us, we're going to help put a compilation to show together about what it takes to become a pilot these days.

01:17:37.813 --> 01:17:41.648
It's a, which is kind of a popular thing for some reason, all of a sudden.

01:17:42.198 --> 01:17:50.073
Yeah, it's not easy, but boy, the rewards have been fabulous for us, and we know they

01:17:50.073 --> 01:17:52.685
will be for you too if you've got any kind of drive to do that.

01:17:53.293 --> 01:17:57.973
We've had the cross show swaps here with the NocellaCast at podfeet.com and the Audio Ground

01:17:58.123 --> 01:18:05.306
School podcast, and that's over at parttimepilot.com, and of course, factormeals.com slash sothereIwas50

01:18:05.738 --> 01:18:11.347
5-0 and use the code, so there I was 50 to get 50% off our first box.

01:18:11.797 --> 01:18:16.928
I don't know, Fig, do you have any special advice for anybody between now and the next time we get together?

01:18:17.054 --> 01:18:20.533
Aircraft communications, addressing and reporting system, ACARS.

01:18:20.772 --> 01:18:23.338
Don't sit on the ejection handle, damn it.

01:18:24.337 --> 01:18:28.604
Right. Stay safe and check six.

01:18:29.419 --> 01:19:05.213
Music.